Another way to view Scientology

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron

I always use quotation marks when I speak of "OT"

I gained much from Scn time and apply much exactly as studied but my studies are far ranging and I've never mentioned yet the Christian "OT"; "If you have but as much faith as a grain of mustard you can move mountains"


(Man! THIS definitely does NOT play well with Scibots)

"Every lake has it's own fish. Every Master has his own teaching"

Glad to know I've got your attention HH - Yer Da Best!

p.s. Although I do believe I have often produced Master level work, my flaws foibles and shortcomings remain far too extensive for such as I to be thought a Master

George Layton

Silver Meritorious Patron
No Bill.

I do not have to prove anything and in truth the very nature of the dynamic between the spiritual and and the temporal plane transcends proof within the temporal plane.

I have in fact stated repeatedly that proper scientific rigor presses me to state I cannot prove the most intriguing of my statements EVEN TO MYSELF

I do present myself as one who presents honest testimony and it is not necessary accept as sooth the testimony itself to tender respect for my personal integrity in giving testimony.


Although you refuse to admit to even grudging respect for my personal sincerity, integrity and honesty I will continue to address you as if that respect exists within in you because I am confident that it does.

Same goes for one of the posters who hit the moneybags button
You know the very nature of the dynamic between the spiritual and the temporal plane and yet you haven't ever heard of anyone that has experienced the sound emanating from god before?

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
You know the very nature of the dynamic between the spiritual and the temporal plane and yet you haven't ever heard of anyone that has experienced the sound emanating from god before?
Well george, I don't present myself as The World's Foremost Authority on the dynamic between the spiritual plane and the material universe. I do believe I have significant insight which is surely infintesimal in relation to what can be known nor would I assert that everything I think I know is fit to be carved in stone (of course anyone who uses it to inspire carving while stoned has a shot at museum grade sculpture)

I'm not sure what the second part of your statement is saying and in fact I pay close attention to material from NDE's and other credible sources of accounts of the sound of God. I have also mentioned on this board the moment in the Spring of 1980 When I heard a Voice as it were the voice of many multitudes, simultaneously thunderous yet softer than a gentle whisper, like a great rushing of waters and a roaring fire but who knows, maybe I was just channeling one of Iggy Pop's best stage shows.

Does the second part have something to do with my comment on The Music of The Sphere's?


I haven't ever noticed any of our contemporaries speak of this.

But I'll tell you how it happened and it might open a door of perception for some reader. I don't recall when or where the first time occurred but when the second came about I remembered the same thing had happened the same way years before. It was in the Summer of 1985 in San Francisco. I was standing on the east side of Stanyan Street between Haight and Page facing west toward Golden Gate Park looking up at the late night sky. I noticed the nearly full moon to be very close to a bright star and since there was such a nearby reference point I thought I'd make myself very still inside and enjoy of solemn grandeur of watching the snailrace of the Earth's companion against The Firmament...

Saw the motion I did and heard within an incomparable and indescribable profoundly beautiful sound...

I blew off it quickly; Godfearing man that I am well knowing the breadth and depth of mine own iniquity I covered myself as unworthy of such Grace and remembered I had done the same once before.

It does sound like a binding and a rubbing and a product of some profound friction

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
There’s probably very little on this site I disagree with. I lived it for a long time - pretty much making my way to ‘the top’ in processing and training. SHSBC, etc. Was also on staff for years, but not in the SO. But I worked alongside them and saw the happenings. For quite a while I walked around with a permanent grey rag tucked in my pocket, ready for my next ‘liability’ assignment. That was an automatic assigned condition when I was procuring staff and specific staff post were unfilled. Yes, interesting days - and nights sleeping on a camp bed and sneaking into the dreaded Herbie Parkhouse’s office in the GO for an early morning shower! Oops! Not allowed.

I slipped away quietly from Sc. and was not declared SP. I left during the time of the mass walk out of many old timers right across the planet. Maybe newer people don’t know that happened I wonder how many have wondered the real reason for that walk out - beyond the fact of us being fed up with rising costs of services and getting piles of yellow ethics orders dumped on our desk daily to see who we weren’t allowed to speak to anymore!

I’m going to express a different view of Scientology. Many will think I’ve lost the plot!! That is OK. Go for it. I don’t mind. Look how often we enthusiastically told friends and family about Scientology - and they were totally convinced we’d lost the plot and needed serious help. I’ll say it anyway and maybe it will help someone see it all from a higher perspective of truth. I know it’s hard to see another view while we’re still stuck in the pain of the ‘story’. But that story is a limited picture and just a 3D perspective. However, that 3D story really needed to be told and a million thanks to all those ex’s who spoke out to the media, wrote books, etc. Their courage assisted greatly to bring up to the surface, trauma to be released.

When I left Sc, I took time (as many did) to reassess it all. I am so glad I really worked at that. It served me well for my future path. I did my best to let go of any negative emotions about the tough times; to handle the major loss I felt of the group dynamic (I’m sure most of us long termers had); and to work on holding strong and reinforcing all the spiritual gains I’d had, which were many. I felt much of that gain was due to the deeper understanding gained from taking the training route - SHSBC etc. I then used all I’d gained in Scio to act as a springboard so as to keep growing spiritually, seeking out where the universe led me onto other paths to gain further understanding.

I just read the post by wogwog about what got them in and out of Scientology. An amazing insight and very clever. I can pretty much agree with most of that. But, it’s viewed only from a 3D perspective. You may say how else can it be viewed?

So, here I go. The start of another story, but it’s a different story. Not as ‘way out’ as the Xenu saga maybe!! But it’s my truth.

1. We are multi dimensional beings in a multi dimensional universe which means there are consequently many different levels of truth. There’s the limited 3D view (the obvious one) and then there are higher dimensional reasons for everything that occurs in each of our lives and in all events on Earth. Sometimes we can see the higher reason, but mostly not. Luckily, we don’t need to see it, because the learning we obtain comes from the way we choose to handle the experiences we encounter.

2. The Earth is continually evolving, as are we.

3. Millions of us incarnated here, as early as Lemuria and Atlantis, to assist the evolvement of Earth birthing into a higher frequency of light. We came here from other planets and systems. Does anyone still believe life only exists on Earth? Out of this entire vast universe? Hopefully, many are now past that limited idea.

4. For all of us, having spent many lifetimes accruing and often burying all sorts of heavy energy traumatic experiences in the ‘reactive mind’ (to use a Scio term), we arrive at our current lifetime - our ‘wrap up lifetime’ - all destined and planned, the last before returning home. Additionally, for all the Old Souls here, it is their last ever incarnation in any 3rd dimension. There will no longer be a need for them to bring their experience and help to a 3D incarnated world. After this run on Earth, all information gained will be slotted into the Akashic records for others to learn from. I won’t go into that. Just trying to keep it to a minimum.

5. Fact. In order to return home at the end of this incarnation, we need to be vibrating at a certain frequency of light. Any dense energy sitting in the various subtle bodies we each have (mental, emotional, etc.) prevents this and so it needs to be released.

6. Various technologies were pre-planned (from a higher perspective), to come into being in this incarnation, to assist the releasing of any dense energy buried from previous incarnations of all those who came to help the Earth on this Divine Plan!

7. Scientology and especially Dianetics was one of the major technologies planned to achieve this - to be overseered by LRH. It works if held precise mathematically correct. It did exactly what it was designed to do. It released engrams and trauma by the ton. It also helped us remember we were more than ‘a body’ and were actually a spiritual being.

8. In the higher plan, sufficient time being in Scio was allowed - enough time to help us release as much past life trauma stuff as possible. We didn’t need to get rid of it all, just the bulk of it, to give us a good kick star. Then, more time was allowed; 5 years was the estimate that most of us would need to get over it all; go beyond any negative aspects of our Scio experience; disorientation; disillusionment; time to get ‘out of the head’ from being in this very analytical scientific subject and get ‘into the heart’; to realign to unconditional love and get over the loss of the group dynamic/bridge, many had. The overall goal was to get ourselves in a clearer space, more balanced and ready to carry out the role each of us chose to do to this lifetime. For many it took the 5 years to get over it and prepare for what lay ahead (our actual work on Earth). Of course, there’s always a choice. We can sit in blame and regret and be a victim or we can act as a creator and master of our life, grasp it and move forward. There are 4 flows to an engrams!

9. There were many universal signs put into play to trigger us to leave Scio - e.g. ethics orders gone mad declaring everyone and his mother an SP and being told we had to disconnect! Some did disconnect for a while (fear!), but then for many the clincher came and it was our best friend - and it was ‘no way! Lots of other signs including the mass worldwide walk out.

10. So, that’s my understanding of the higher reason for Scientology and Dianetics. LRH did a great job actually, but I don’t expect that is easy for some to believe. I’m eternally grateful to him. He allowed me to receive a technology that released heaps of dense energy and allowed me to move. I have enjoyed a great life, understanding more of the perfection of the universe has made me grateful for every part of my life. We go on ever learning and growing and helping others. Isn’t that why we are all here? Everyone is helping everyone else.

Obviously, this is a limited description of one aspect of a very large universal picture, but it is simple (truth always is) and hopefully is enough for those who choose to go within for their own truth. We can all reach that place of inner knowing, if we let go and listen.

See you at the banquet on the way home!

Welcome to the board!

I wasn't meaning to hijack your intro thread but after you apparently withdrew perhaps for being unprepared to engage the challenge from in post I seem to have wound up dancing a quadrille with The Four Hoarse Men of The Apocasnips; Pitsy, Bill, HH, and the ever fiesty and contentious Senor Layton...

Unless you object your OP does seem to create a comfortable space for our ongoing free-for-all

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
I did notice the absence of CP and new presence of SHUKex around the same time.

OSA does operate in surreptitious ways. But I caution against jumping to conclusions with limited information. Not all, Narcissists or apologists for them or OSA, are OSA.

But some people have aberrated minds and views of life and due to their character disturbances are compulsively working to condone and keep hidden the destructive aspects of certain practices or ideologies.

I also would like to remind that one of OSA's methods is to push down and out of the list of current threads, ones that are considered as exposing any of the egregious actions of themselves or other similar scientology uncivil dogma and or behaviour.

Any reference suggesting a connection between myself and OSA does make me feel grievously ignored

Bad conduct on the part of my former brother-in-law Greg Wilhere was very significant in the wrongful death of my son Ian.

Co$$$ sucks rotten iguana eggs and I am severely disinclined toward making common cause with the Office of Specious Arseholes

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
  • Seeing ONLY that "Hubbard was a genius" and that "Scientology works" == "Seeing more than one side"
  • Seeing that "Hubbard did some awful things" and "Hubbard's promised miracles never happened" == "natter machine"
Yeah :duh:

Well yes, I do often post as objection to categoric renunciation and/or condemnation with the simple and firm statement that Hubbard produced work of genius

However TSTO, if that were my one dimensional assessment of the man I'd be there rather than here

Nor do I ever advocate the simplistic view "Scientology Works!" I gained much from the study and I believe to be an auditor is a noble calling but tech has limitations and policy is often wretched


Yep SH UK. I knew there were some but hadn't realized there were so many other big walkouts. Thank you for telling me that. Clever, aren't we? We know when its time to go.
I’ve been reading and watching everything I could get my hands on about cults. Like “Holy Hell”.

I’ve noticed that almost all of them find something that seems to actually work for people. That’s the hook. A bit of truth. Then, the new cult members say “I did experience something. This is real.”

Then the other shoe drops and the trap is sprung.

Beware of organized belief systems.