F.Bullbait
Oh, a wise guy,eh?
If Ron were alive today...
It was the treatment of the SO babies and children (definitely at SH and I assume elsewhere also, because they were all following HUBBARD policy) that truly shocked, disgusted and devastated me ... there was no excuse for it at all and that alone is enough for me to forever condemn hubbard, scientology and cults in general.
Everything in the cult has two faces but I saw the reality and have no urge to try and paper over the truth using PR tek and airy fairy 'positive thinking' about the experience in general.
Hubbard was a greedy, manipulative nutter and anyone that tries to defend him is either as blind as a bat, has an agenda or is trying to justify something in his own past.
Yes I will look at that. But I was aware of what the kids went through, including the hassles they had to contend with at school for the kids that went to Chequermead and Sackville. And yes the 'lake' I referred to for the dunkings was probably not the cleanest in the world!! I was so glad I was not in the SO. Well, it was a choice of course. It didn't seem right for me. Re my friends who joined - they were making a committment to giving the best help they could.
There seems a lot of evidence that power and money were major factors. It makes sense that power and ego were a driving force.
As we know and can see from posts on this site, many are still suffering from their time in Scientology, even those who left some time ago. The subject obviously brings up many different emotions and thoughts, including criticism and judgements. And understandably there’s a need to express that view to help others understand how the experience was for them.
I think a lot of us left with varying degrees of pain, loss, regret, annoyed with ourselves over various aspects of out time in it, perhaps guilt at disconnecting from friends or family along the way, feeling gullible, fear of repercussions or of losing the bridge, condemnations and judgments, to name a few.
Not only regarding Scientology, but with any painful, traumatic or sad time in our life, we have a choice in whether we continue forward holding on to that or we do our best to take whatever we can that was positive from it and let the rest go. I know it sounds easy and it isn’t, but it is a choice and it can be done. For myself, I find burying stuff and convincing myself that it’s gone now and doesn’t bother me, doesn’t cut it. I spent many years learning that buried stuff can come back to bite me - sometime.
I've learned that stress creates physical illness. To keep on with any sort of mental anguish over anything, does not serve us well. It is certainly not respecting and loving ourselves (or people close to us) enough to take it in hand and do whatever we need to do to get ourselves back into a place of inner peace, of harmony and balance. That may sound all airy fairy or woosy (is that a word!) but in my heart I think it’s something most of us wish for ourselves.
Of course, any emotions so visibly on the surface are easier to overcome than buried stuff.
We make choices every moment of our day. It is just one more.
As said, it's a choice. If you believe your pain is what makes you who you are and you need it to be that person, so be it. It is your truth and we are the master of the truth we choose to accept. It is not my understanding of who we are. I believe we are all far, far more than any such view. The experience helps make us what we are, not the pain of it. How we chose to view that experience is our choice.Kirk: Damn it, Bones, you're a doctor. You know that pain and guilt can't be taken away with a wave of a magic wand. They're the things we carry with us, the things that make us who we are. If we lose them, we lose ourselves. I don't want my pain taken away! I need my pain!
scientology wasn't good for you because it fucked you over and when you finally got out you decided "I'm going to make the best of my life from what I've learned from being fucked over. It was bad for you because it fucked you over. Just because you learned a lesson in life doesn't make the what you had to go through to learn it good and it sure does not justify the actions of others taking advantage of you. scientology did and still does fuck with people's lives. Lessons are learned through experiences we have in life but if the lesson learned come at the planned gain of another does not make it a spiritual gain unless the spiritual seeker happens to be drowning in the ocean and notices a couple of straw husks float by.There seems a lot of evidence that power and money were major factors. It makes sense that power and ego were a driving force.
As we know and can see from posts on this site, many are still suffering from their time in Scientology, even those who left some time ago. The subject obviously brings up many different emotions and thoughts, including criticism and judgements. And understandably there’s a need to express that view to help others understand how the experience was for them.
I think a lot of us left with varying degrees of pain, loss, regret, annoyed with ourselves over various aspects of out time in it, perhaps guilt at disconnecting from friends or family along the way, feeling gullible, fear of repercussions or of losing the bridge, condemnations and judgments, to name a few.
Not only regarding Scientology, but with any painful, traumatic or sad time in our life, we have a choice in whether we continue forward holding on to that or we do our best to take whatever we can that was positive from it and let the rest go. I know it sounds easy and it isn’t, but it is a choice and it can be done. For myself, I find burying stuff and convincing myself that it’s gone now and doesn’t bother me, doesn’t cut it. I spent many years learning that buried stuff can come back to bite me - sometime.
I've learned that stress creates physical illness. To keep on with any sort of mental anguish over anything, does not serve us well. It is certainly not respecting and loving ourselves (or people close to us) enough to take it in hand and do whatever we need to do to get ourselves back into a place of inner peace, of harmony and balance. That may sound all airy fairy or woosy (is that a word!) but in my heart I think it’s something most of us wish for ourselves.
Of course, any emotions so visibly on the surface are easier to overcome than buried stuff.
We make choices every moment of our day. It is just one more.
You miss the point. What would be left of Scientology if you removed all the components specifically designed to sell the removal of pain or bad experiences?As said, it's a choice. If you believe your pain is what makes you who you are and you need it to be that person, so be it. It is your truth and we are the master of the truth we choose to accept. It is not my understanding of who we are. I believe we are all far, far more than any such view. The experience helps make us what we are, not the pain of it. How we chose to view that experience is our choice.
I have a friend, now quite elderly, who has to be the most genuinely unconditionally loving person I know. She was found as a newborn wrapped in a black plastic garbage bag and dumped in a bin in England. She spent all her young life in orphanages and went on to marry and have 2 well balanced kids. She brought them up to understand that we don't always know why stuff happens us but we do have a choice as to how we view it and whether we allow it to affect us. She knew there must have been a good reason and she never judged her birth mother. It could have so easily gone the other way. She could have chosen to be bitter and feel abandoned, as many would.
Why keep the pain when we can release the pain and retain the wisdom? Seems to me to be the more helpful solution that brings us closer to inner peace and harmony with all thingsYou miss the point. What would be left of Scientology if you removed all the components specifically designed to sell the removal of pain or bad experiences?
How many belief systems are constructed around this central goal? And of those how many are honest, deceptive or start out honest and become deceptive. Much of the discussion about Scientology tries to determine if it was always deceptive or became deceptive later. I think the history speaks for itself.
Why should it be so important that we choose to remove the pain and hardship in life? These things lead to wisdom. Wisdom leads to a balanced practical sense of justice. Ex-Scientologists are characterized by the Church as somehow defective because the hardships they experienced in Scientology provides the wisdom that compels them to seek justice.
The argument for reducing all this pain and experience is often made by people who want to avoid the hard choices required of justice or as Hubbard would put it…confronting evil. As we speak the Europeans are committing a form of self genocide because they have gone too far down this idealist path. For 1400 years they were right in resisting Islamic conquest and within 2 - 3 years by disregarding reality they have accomplished for the Caliphate what it couldn’t do by itself.
This kind of utopianism can cause very real pain and suffering. And it is always the pragmatists who must die on the battle field to save them from themselves. Utopianists get the brownie points for being so spiritual, imaginative and altruistic and the rest of us get the pain.
In your opening post you did say that you thought LRH did a great job and you speak very favorably of Scientology and Dianetics. All this talk of getting rid of pain is so much like Hubbards pitch. It sounds great on paper. The problem becomes when people make decisions or public policy based on woo that have very real impacts on other people's lives. This is a forum for "Ex" Scientologists as in no longer adhering to the doctrine of Scientology. We do debate from time to time the shades of grey between being an Ex as regards the belief system and being an Ex in regards to the organizational aspects of Scientology but we each have our own reasons for being exes and participating with the forum. Some may want some kind of cathartic release, others to analyze their experience without the oppressive controls of the doctrine or the organization, some enjoy the eclectic and uniquely J&D humor, and others seek justice for the many abuses, having been tricked into contributing to the abuses and to prevent further harm.Why keep the pain when we can release the pain and retain the wisdom? Seems to me to be the more helpful solution that brings us closer to inner peace and harmony with all things
scientology wasn't good for you because it fucked you over and when you finally got out you decided "I'm going to make the best of my life from what I've learned from being fucked over. It was bad for you because it fucked you over. Just because you learned a lesson in life doesn't make the what you had to go through to learn it good and it sure does not justify the actions of others taking advantage of you. scientology did and still does fuck with people's lives. Lessons are learned through experiences we have in life but if the lesson learned come at the planned gain of another does not make it a spiritual gain unless the spiritual seeker happens to be drowning in the ocean and notices a couple of straw husks float by.
In your opening post you did say that you thought LRH did a great job and you speak very favorably of Scientology and Dianetics. All this talk of getting rid of pain is so much like Hubbards pitch. It sounds great on paper. The problem becomes when people make decisions or public policy based on woo that have very real impacts on other people's lives. This is a forum for "Ex" Scientologists as in no longer adhering to the doctrine of Scientology. We do debate from time to time the shades of grey between being an Ex as regards the belief system and being an Ex in regards to the organizational aspects of Scientology but we each have our own reasons for being exes and participating with the forum. Some may want some kind of cathartic release, others to analyze their experience without the oppressive controls of the doctrine or the organization, some enjoy the eclectic and uniquely J&D humor, and others seek justice for the many abuses, having been tricked into contributing to the abuses and to prevent further harm.
You know, one of the strategies of OSA is to promote this idea of releasing the pain. In Scientologese it's called handling an ARC Break (Affinity, Reality Communication). Ethics Officers and OSA like yourself, firmly believe that if they can get us to release our pain we will return to the fold or quietly go away, get a girlfriend or boyfriend or a new hobby. Some of their ops actually try to do this. It's quite clever actually. I for one like Jamie DeWolf's refreshingly honest and completely non-PC take on the whole thing and he seems to have a lot of company...
Sorry, but am not sure what OSA is?
I feel releasing any pain we carry can help us personally feel better. I prefer not to continue living in pain or trauma if I can possibly alleviate it in any way.
My original post subject says ‘Another way to view Scientology’. I thought it may be helpful to someone.
In my life, I try to spot any points where I'm blaming other people for situations I've gotten into. To me, the blame idea is inferring I am a victim. I'm saying I did not create this. I've found this hasn't helped me resolve anything. But the minute I start saying instead - 'I did this' - 'I created this' - is the moment I start to see it dissolving. Just works for me.Just out of interest, who are you actually addressing @SHUKex?
Who (around here) gives you the impression that they see themselves as victims?
Ok ... but who (around here) do you feel sees themself as a victim?In my life, I try to spot any points where I'm blaming other people for situations I've gotten into. To me, the blame idea is inferring I am a victim. I'm saying I did not create this. I've found this hasn't helped me resolve anything. But the minute I start saying instead - 'I did this' - 'I created this' - is the moment I start to see it dissolving. Just works for me.
Wow! You have discovered a system to "release the pain" and produce "cognitions" (wisdom)?Why keep the pain when we can release the pain and retain the wisdom? Seems to me to be the more helpful solution that brings us closer to inner peace and harmony with all things
I haven't a clue who might feel they are a victim. I simply said 'I am not a victim' in answer to the evaluation offered to me ........'scientology wasn't good for you because it fucked you over.'Ok ... but who (around here) do you feel sees themself as a victim?
I haven't a clue who might feel they are a victim. I simply said 'I am not a victim' in answer to the evaluation offered to me ........'scientology wasn't good for you because it fucked you over.'
I also said 'some people find it hard to feel they are not a victim in some life situations'. Is that incorrect?
No magic pill - well, not that I’ve discovered anyway! It’s a journey. It takes whatever it takes and we each approach it in a way that best suits us. I pretty much took nearly 5 years to fully reassess and re-align every aspect of my life after Scientology. It had been a big part of my life and my friendships, for a very long time.Wow! You have discovered a system to "release the pain" and produce "cognitions" (wisdom)?
Dr. Hubbard's system promoted the same, how is yours better?
And how do you measure "inner peace and harmony with all things" so that you are not following a euphoric sensation that causes people to join hoaxes and other cults that promise inner peace and harmony with all things? Seriously, virtually every single Scientologist got hooked on Scientology because they felt "inner peace and harmony with all things", at which moment their spiritual guide indicated their floating needle.
How is it that you propose people follow your mental health regimen? What do are they supposed to do? Just "let go" of the negative? That's it?
And how long after being scammed, abused, terrorized and bankrupted are they supposed to suddenly be able to do that? Within moments of leaving Scientology? After 3-10 days?
I don't get what you are promoting. You don't want what? People to feel nor post "entheta" things about their experiences with Dr. Hubbard and Scientology?
What if feeling negative emotions is sanity and the way that the mind naturally heals itself? You are proposing to stop that healing process?
I really don't understand what you are trying to change in others.
If you found something that worked for you, cool! But did you get the idea that others are trying to "handle" something?
I'm not.
.
No magic pill - well, not that I’ve discovered anyway! It’s a journey. It takes whatever it takes and we each approach it in a way that best suits us. I pretty much took nearly 5 years to fully reassess and re-align every aspect of my life after Scientology. It had been a big part of my life and my friendships, for a very long time.
Why would I not want people to express their feelings about Scientology, whatever they may be. A lot of people had a very rough time. Why should they say otherwise. It’s a public forum for that purpose, I guess.
Really not trying to change anyone - not on a quest. I tried something that worked for me so I mentioned it. Just passing through. That is all.
It’s great you’re not trying to handle anything. But I'm sure you know that some people really are. I certainly was for a long time.
I had a husband and wife contact me a while ago. The husband was raised from birth in the SO at SH and had left at 18.He later married and had children. I knew his mother and recalled seeing him occasionally. His wife rang me as a friend of hers mentioned they knew an ex Scio (me) - who may be able to help her understand it all better. They both came to visit me. She explained how difficult their marriage had been because he was so bitter about the whole thing and she felt she couldn’t help him as she really had no knowledge of anything of Scientology. They stayed for 5 hours. I hope I helped a bit.