Another way to view Scientology

SHUKex

Patron
Just for the record, I have no idea what a CP is or was. But I can promise you, it has NOTHING to do with me. This is the first time I was here and, in fact, the first time on any forum about anything. I happened to come across ‘What kept me in Sc. and what got me out.’ I thought it was insightful, well written and I learnt something from many of the points made.

In my ignorance, I don’t even know what OSA is, but maybe I should!

Yes, SHUK ex stands for Saint Hill UK. That's where I was!

I have no agenda. It is what it is. Nothing special. Nothing unique. Nothing new. Just one viewpoint out of billions. As we know, life is about exchanging views and communication; opportunities for positive and useful exchange on our evolutionary path. A two way street. Ever the seeker and ever learning, I’m grateful to those who take the time to show me any way I can better understand this universe and our role in it. It’s been such a long journey and everyone has attained a wealth of experience seen in our own unique way.

For me, love was the missing equation in Scientology. I’m doing my best to put it back into my life.

‘I said I could be trouble’ (love the name, by the way) stated in a post that ‘I was helping no-one’. Although I don’t know how they can be sure of that, or if they can speak for everyone, I do see no-one protested their statement. So, it seems they may be right. So, I shall move on. As I said, I was only passing through.

Thank you everyone for your exchange and presenting your views.
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
<snip>

‘I said I could be trouble’ (love the name, by the way)
If you love it so much why don't you use it instead of SHUKex, there's no one here by that name!

[format=h5]Adding: There is a very nice member called 'No One' though, so don't be using that instead. ;)[/format]
 
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Veda

Sponsor
SHUKex said:

-snip-

In my ignorance, I don’t even know what OSA is, but maybe I should!

35 years ago the Guardians Office was renamed the Office of Special Affairs. It's layer Five of the Scientological Onion http://exscn.net/content/view/178/105/index.html, next to Layer Six which is the core of the Onion.

You happily dwell at Layer One (the "good stuff," the bait, the lure, the smiley face part) of the Onion,


Homer+Donuts.jpg



although you are unwittingly influenced by Layer Two (the manipulative, the initial "switch" part of the "bait and switch" of Scientology), a little further IN towards the Core at Layer Six.

Scientology is the whole Onion.

You find it uncomfortable to confront the entirety of Scientology and have no desire to do so.

Bye!
 

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
<snip>
For me, love was the missing equation in Scientology. I’m doing my best to put it back into my life.

‘I said I could be trouble’ (love the name, by the way) stated in a post that ‘I was helping no-one’. Although I don’t know how they can be sure of that, or if they can speak for everyone, I do see no-one protested their statement. So, it seems they may be right. So, I shall move on. As I said, I was only passing through.

Thank you everyone for your exchange and presenting your views.
You are correct about love being one key element missing from Scientology.

I understand how you might be disappointed with your reception here. You obviously came here to try to help others who have left Scientology. That's a noble goal. I know I, for one, do not appreciate endeavors to "improve upon Scientology" as you have done -- and I can be a bit rough on people attempting to do that. I'm sorry if that has upset you.

I don't believe that ex-Scientologists need "more Scientology" or "better Scientology". That's my opinion. But it is only my opinion. Your opinion is just as valid. You are welcome here and your opinion is welcome here. You will run into disagreement. That's part of what makes this forum so wonderful. We disagree but still can continue to have conversations with each other and find other areas of agreement.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
SHUKex said:



35 years ago the Guardians Office was renamed the Office of Special Affairs. It's layer Five of the Scientological Onion http://exscn.net/content/view/178/105/index.html, next to Layer Six which is the core of the Onion.

You happily dwell at Layer One (the "good stuff," the bait, the lure, the smiley face part) of the Onion,


Homer+Donuts.jpg



although you are unwittingly influenced by Layer Two (the manipulative, the initial "switch" part of the "bait and switch" of Scientology), a little further IN towards the Core at Layer Six.

Scientology is the whole Onion.

You find it uncomfortable to confront the entirety of Scientology and have no desire to do so.

Bye!
You might almost say, "The way out is the way through".
 

F.Bullbait

Oh, a wise guy,eh?
The OP might entertain the idea of working from home in the 5th dimension as related here...

“An Indian engineer who has worked only 16 days in the past eight months has told his bosses that he cannot be disciplined because he’s the 10th incarnation of Vishnu. In response to criticism of his absences, Rameshchandra Fefar wrote to his manager to explain that he had been transformed into a deity and was “entering into the fifth dimension to change global conscience. This work I cannot do in the office.” The government agency that employs Fefar said it had received his note, “and our administrative department is processing it.” ” --The Week, June 8, 2018, p.12.
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
"he had been transformed into a deity and was “entering into the fifth dimension to change global conscience. This work I cannot do in the office."

Now we know why LRH went to target two and left all his org offices for DM to occupy and work at the KOT and LRH com posts and keeps his inurements locked in the shoe box safes hidden behind the book shelves. LRH, when he returns is going to slap DM silly and lock him up in the wheel lockers of his DC8 spaceships.
Can somebody please do a new Mission Into Time to find out when exactly El Con is returning to trump the Trump?
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
I was just thinking about the staff not getting paid and it brought to mind something I had never told anyone. I was in Disbursements (Treasury) for a while at SH and one of my jobs was to take the cash cheque for staff pay to Herbie Parkhouse to sign. Of course it was always a last minute thing but I always worked hard to get it finished and to his office well in time to get to the bank and get the money to pay the staff. Not every week but often, he would stall and stall until he knew there was no time to get to the bank. I would see him check his watch and when it got close enough to 3pm (bank closing time) he would sign it. It was rarely much pay anyway but it was heart breaking to tell staff there was none. We were threatened by him many times with a CommEv (I just recalled that word - Committe of Evidence) if we ever discussed anything that took place in that dept - he meant him! Yes, we were in fear of him and losing our bridge. But after I left and reviewed it all, attempting to extract value from those sort of experiences, I know there is not a chance in the universe I would ever compromise my integrity again or choose to live in fear.
I don't read/post much here these days. I was posted in Dept 8 AOSHUK from about Dec 1972 until 1974 or so. For the first 6 months (approx) Treas AOSH was housed in the Monkey Room in the Manor, separated from the GOWW Finance Office (and Herbie's office at the back) by a row of filing cabinets. At the time, we did the purchasing/bills paying for the whole of Saint Hill. I can't remember if that included the GO too -- it obviously wouldn't have included confidential stuff.

Paul
 

Dave B.

Maximus Ultimus Mostimus
I'll take that as a compliment, THANK YOU! As far as rationalizing faults, well, that's not my style. Nice try though.

What? Koot, Chairman of International Society of Hubbard Never Did No Wrong, not rationalizing his faults!? lolol. I think if we had video of Hubbard sliding a knife across someones throat you'd find extenuating circumstances cuz, like..... he's Elron.
 

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
Clay Pigeon, a member. Some one who sees more than one side of a situation and is not just a single focused natter machine like some others on esmb.
Translation:
  • Seeing ONLY that "Hubbard was a genius" and that "Scientology works" == "Seeing more than one side"
  • Seeing that "Hubbard did some awful things" and "Hubbard's promised miracles never happened" == "natter machine"
Yeah :duh:
no.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Clay Pigeon, a member. Some one who sees more than one side of a situation and is not just a single focused natter machine like some others on esmb.
Your post here actually IS natter according to the Scientology definition. :D

The good news though, we don't make you write up your o/w's here at ESMB, apply the correct conditions, or throw you in the ESMB chain locker for a week. :thumbsup:
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Actually, I'd like to point the fact that this chat with you about Ron and $cientology is very positive, fruitful and open to criticism which is rarely seen here with true believers. This is very much appreciated (and welcome for my part). :cool:

One very basic thing I've learned in my life while persuing my search for truth, freedom and spiritual enlightement is this:

Keeping away of dishonnest pseudo-masters ego-driven in search of praise and admiration.

A true spiritual enlightener will at least have succeded in
taming his own ego (no need for praise and to be worshipped)
displaying true compassion and human suffering roots understanding
thus will display humbleness in his daily behavior and needs.. will only look to meet his basic needs...(no mony piling)

Only then, you may have a person who may turn on the lights on your path..then it's up to you to find your truth topward the light...

My opinion, based on my findings is
LRH
wanted to be the light and the path....
but only succeded to walk into the darkness on a wrong path...the ego driven path of his church of status and power.
The "ego-driven" isn't too bad usually (ref. Ayn Rand) it's the id-driven that gives you the first rate sticky wicket.

Hubbard's career path wanders about. He seems to have been fairly decent from '53-'68. In his time at FCDC he was always and repeatedly straight up about just being a man. Nor does "Hymn To Asia" directly extend a claim by Hubbard to be Metraia.

His actual statement on his income was that he drew only Sea Org pay but did receive royalties on his books and in point of fact there is no evidence in his lifestyle of him exceeding his stated income

It is my own considered belief that both personal social or spiritual judgement of him is of only ancilliary significance. It is the ideas and techniques that are important (or not).
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
As a "public," who had refused, over the ten or so years that I was a member in good standing, to join staff or the Sea Org - despite efforts to get me to do so - I had purchased books, training and auditing. When I wasn't doing courses or auditing, I was no where near an org, or Scientologists. I did receive Scientology publications such as Advance! magazine and the Auditor newspaper in the mail. I was a "pantie waisted dilettante" and I liked it that way.

I stayed away from Scientology most of time, and didn't think about it much. All in all, I didn't know very much, and, at the time (the 1970s), there wasn't much information available to know.

It wasn't until a friend, whom I had introduced to Scientology a few years earlier (when I was an enthusiastic new discoverer of Scientology myself), and had subsequently begun receiving auditing from a Field Auditor (LLoyd Greenberg), contacted me and told me of an organizational upheaval (the 1982 Mission Holders Conference), and sent me the transcript of that Conference and a bunch of other items, that my attention was drawn to Scientology again.

By that time, I had already quietly backed away from Scientology. The changes in the Grade Chart, the (IMO) idiotic "Way to Happiness" booklet, Hubbard's bizarre LSD writings, and, most of all, the awareness that many (too many) Scientologists appeared to be under Hubbard's hypnotic influence, had created even more distance between Scientology and myself than before - and there was already considerable distance most of the time.

I became aware that a large number of people who were previously high ranking members in Scientology, or had been Mission Holders, had left the organization. I even had a long list - with phone numbers - of these people. They included David Mayo, and even former notorious 1960s "squirrel" Jack Horner. I ran up a huge telephone bill speaking to all of them on the phone.

It was a very unusual time, and - briefly - Scientology seemed interesting again. I went to California and met with many of the same people with whom I had spoken earlier on the phone. (Almost everything was in California.) I became associated with a break away mission and - on my own, and not part of any group - used some of their space to (mainly) audit others, which I was interested in doing outside the organization, to see what the results were. That took about a year, after which I began work on a number of other Scientology related projects. Since I was (loosely) now part of a "squirrel" group, and one which was under attack by Scientology, I was being exposed to parts of Scientology which I had previously successfully ignored.

I visited the secret southern California desert base called "Gold," saw the frightened RPFers behind the tall barbed wire fence, had encounters with Scientology thugs, Private Investigators, and lawyers, was able to access and read large amounts of material including Paulette Cooper's private three binder collection of documents, and thousands of pages of FBI seized Scientology spying&dirty tricks documents. I even became acquainted with Hubbard's oldest son, Nibs, and had many long talks with him.

So I went from being a very distant (off lines) "public" person who was none the less "in good standing," to a rather well informed "squirrel" and "SP."

Strange ride.
You are too harsh in your judgement of "The Way To Happiness" materials Veda. They are so obviously so far above and beyond idiotic I can't see how anyone could consider them anything but moronic.
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Just because Hubbard destroyed tens of thousands of peoples' lives whilst attempting to enslave the planet---well that doesn't mean he was a bad person.

Because, per the tech, Ron was "basically good", aside from being "mankind's greatest friend" and messianic savior of all beings in the universe.

We should not concern ourselves with all the Mest enturbulation, destruction, criminality & suffering that necessarily was stirred up when Ron began to "put order into the confusion" called life, on this planet. I believe it was Buddha who once said:

"You need to break some (l)eggs[sup]*[/sup] in order to make an OmeleT.

* leggs - noun:
1. (archaic variant) legs
2. in scientology, the scriptural reference to "pink legs sticking out"; a high-toned euphemism for the win called murder.


.
I'm usually disinclined to rag on the great HH but L. Ron Hubbard most certainly may not be held culpable of "ruining tens of thousands of lives"
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
You guys in the US experienced so much of the insane goings on than we did in the the UK. Bits filtered through, but many of us only realized how bad it was in the US after books were written and people interviewed on TV. UK SO - long hours, pressure, hard work, little time to spend with the children (I always felt sorry for the SO children), living on beans and rice and getting dunked in the lake or with a bucket of water and ending up on the RPF, seemed really tough. But I realized long ago,the UK was a walk in the park compared to what was happening elsewhere. You guys know so much of the really tough stuff and I am sure your understanding of that has helped many others discuss their tough times with people who really understand what they went through.
I was on staff at FCDC from Sep '72 to jun '74 as staff staff auditor married to a Basic Course Supervisor and we maitained a pleasant, modern two room plus full bath apartment on staff pay.

I certainly have wide open ears for all and especially former staff who had much less and worse

but...

what I personally experienced was not too bad...
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
It was the treatment of the SO babies and children (definitely at SH and I assume elsewhere also, because they were all following HUBBARD policy) that truly shocked, disgusted and devastated me ... there was no excuse for it at all and that alone is enough for me to forever condemn hubbard, scientology and cults in general.

Everything in the cult has two faces but I saw the reality and have no urge to try and paper over the truth using PR tek and airy fairy 'positive thinking' about the experience in general.

Hubbard was a greedy, manipulative nutter and anyone that tries to defend him is either as blind as a bat, has an agenda or is trying to justify something in his own past.
Or has derived Substantial Value from the study ITYIWT...

DAMN!!!

Auditor training and experience can make for some hellaciously wondrous things!!!
 
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