Another way to view Scientology

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
It is my own considered belief that both personal social or spiritual judgement of him is of only ancilliary significance. It is the ideas and techniques that are important (or not).
Yes, I would agree that it is the ideas and techniques that are most important.

The technique he developed to make millions by starting a religion succeeded.

And to a degree, the techniques he developed to break up families and harm perceived enemies through his policy on Fair Game succeeded.

The techniques to create Clear's and OT's has failed. Not a single Clear or OT has been created with the abilities he promised.

The techniques he developed to fix an individuals mental health dramatically failed to handle his own mental health issues despite having access to the very best auditors and Case Supervisors on the planet.

His techniques on how to create a successful marriage failed for him personally, three out of three times. Also they failed for Tom Cruise, the most dedicated Scientologist,three out of three times.

His techniques to create music, photography, and other art are not very good. Look at the photography in the original What is Scientology? book and you'll see what I'm talking about.
 

Veda

Sponsor
You are too harsh in your judgement of "The Way To Happiness" materials Veda. They are so obviously so far above and beyond idiotic I can't see how anyone could consider them anything but moronic.
I didn't become involved with Scientology to be told how to be "moral."

TWTH was written as PR cover after the exposure of Hubbard as amoral and immoral. The idea was to solve his bad image by his becoming the expert on "morality."
 

Gib

Crusader
There’s probably very little on this site I disagree with. I lived it for a long time - pretty much making my way to ‘the top’ in processing and training. SHSBC, etc. Was also on staff for years, but not in the SO. But I worked alongside them and saw the happenings. For quite a while I walked around with a permanent grey rag tucked in my pocket, ready for my next ‘liability’ assignment. That was an automatic assigned condition when I was procuring staff and specific staff post were unfilled. Yes, interesting days - and nights sleeping on a camp bed and sneaking into the dreaded Herbie Parkhouse’s office in the GO for an early morning shower! Oops! Not allowed.

I slipped away quietly from Sc. and was not declared SP. I left during the time of the mass walk out of many old timers right across the planet. Maybe newer people don’t know that happened I wonder how many have wondered the real reason for that walk out - beyond the fact of us being fed up with rising costs of services and getting piles of yellow ethics orders dumped on our desk daily to see who we weren’t allowed to speak to anymore!

I’m going to express a different view of Scientology. Many will think I’ve lost the plot!! That is OK. Go for it. I don’t mind. Look how often we enthusiastically told friends and family about Scientology - and they were totally convinced we’d lost the plot and needed serious help. I’ll say it anyway and maybe it will help someone see it all from a higher perspective of truth. I know it’s hard to see another view while we’re still stuck in the pain of the ‘story’. But that story is a limited picture and just a 3D perspective. However, that 3D story really needed to be told and a million thanks to all those ex’s who spoke out to the media, wrote books, etc. Their courage assisted greatly to bring up to the surface, trauma to be released.

When I left Sc, I took time (as many did) to reassess it all. I am so glad I really worked at that. It served me well for my future path. I did my best to let go of any negative emotions about the tough times; to handle the major loss I felt of the group dynamic (I’m sure most of us long termers had); and to work on holding strong and reinforcing all the spiritual gains I’d had, which were many. I felt much of that gain was due to the deeper understanding gained from taking the training route - SHSBC etc. I then used all I’d gained in Scio to act as a springboard so as to keep growing spiritually, seeking out where the universe led me onto other paths to gain further understanding.

I just read the post by wogwog about what got them in and out of Scientology. An amazing insight and very clever. I can pretty much agree with most of that. But, it’s viewed only from a 3D perspective. You may say how else can it be viewed?

So, here I go. The start of another story, but it’s a different story. Not as ‘way out’ as the Xenu saga maybe!! But it’s my truth.

1. We are multi dimensional beings in a multi dimensional universe which means there are consequently many different levels of truth. There’s the limited 3D view (the obvious one) and then there are higher dimensional reasons for everything that occurs in each of our lives and in all events on Earth. Sometimes we can see the higher reason, but mostly not. Luckily, we don’t need to see it, because the learning we obtain comes from the way we choose to handle the experiences we encounter.

2. The Earth is continually evolving, as are we.

3. Millions of us incarnated here, as early as Lemuria and Atlantis, to assist the evolvement of Earth birthing into a higher frequency of light. We came here from other planets and systems. Does anyone still believe life only exists on Earth? Out of this entire vast universe? Hopefully, many are now past that limited idea.

4. For all of us, having spent many lifetimes accruing and often burying all sorts of heavy energy traumatic experiences in the ‘reactive mind’ (to use a Scio term), we arrive at our current lifetime - our ‘wrap up lifetime’ - all destined and planned, the last before returning home. Additionally, for all the Old Souls here, it is their last ever incarnation in any 3rd dimension. There will no longer be a need for them to bring their experience and help to a 3D incarnated world. After this run on Earth, all information gained will be slotted into the Akashic records for others to learn from. I won’t go into that. Just trying to keep it to a minimum.

5. Fact. In order to return home at the end of this incarnation, we need to be vibrating at a certain frequency of light. Any dense energy sitting in the various subtle bodies we each have (mental, emotional, etc.) prevents this and so it needs to be released.

6. Various technologies were pre-planned (from a higher perspective), to come into being in this incarnation, to assist the releasing of any dense energy buried from previous incarnations of all those who came to help the Earth on this Divine Plan!

7. Scientology and especially Dianetics was one of the major technologies planned to achieve this - to be overseered by LRH. It works if held precise mathematically correct. It did exactly what it was designed to do. It released engrams and trauma by the ton. It also helped us remember we were more than ‘a body’ and were actually a spiritual being.

8. In the higher plan, sufficient time being in Scio was allowed - enough time to help us release as much past life trauma stuff as possible. We didn’t need to get rid of it all, just the bulk of it, to give us a good kick star. Then, more time was allowed; 5 years was the estimate that most of us would need to get over it all; go beyond any negative aspects of our Scio experience; disorientation; disillusionment; time to get ‘out of the head’ from being in this very analytical scientific subject and get ‘into the heart’; to realign to unconditional love and get over the loss of the group dynamic/bridge, many had. The overall goal was to get ourselves in a clearer space, more balanced and ready to carry out the role each of us chose to do to this lifetime. For many it took the 5 years to get over it and prepare for what lay ahead (our actual work on Earth). Of course, there’s always a choice. We can sit in blame and regret and be a victim or we can act as a creator and master of our life, grasp it and move forward. There are 4 flows to an engrams!

9. There were many universal signs put into play to trigger us to leave Scio - e.g. ethics orders gone mad declaring everyone and his mother an SP and being told we had to disconnect! Some did disconnect for a while (fear!), but then for many the clincher came and it was our best friend - and it was ‘no way! Lots of other signs including the mass worldwide walk out.

10. So, that’s my understanding of the higher reason for Scientology and Dianetics. LRH did a great job actually, but I don’t expect that is easy for some to believe. I’m eternally grateful to him. He allowed me to receive a technology that released heaps of dense energy and allowed me to move. I have enjoyed a great life, understanding more of the perfection of the universe has made me grateful for every part of my life. We go on ever learning and growing and helping others. Isn’t that why we are all here? Everyone is helping everyone else.

Obviously, this is a limited description of one aspect of a very large universal picture, but it is simple (truth always is) and hopefully is enough for those who choose to go within for their own truth. We can all reach that place of inner knowing, if we let go and listen.

See you at the banquet on the way home!
This is more metaphysical nonsense regarding Hubbard and scientology. Get a clue. Dianetics and scientology are bullshit created by Hubbard.
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
This might be, to use cultspeak "out-gradient" but maybe start with why are they dead

Ten minutes to start. Then eleven tomorrow, etc.
I'm well familiar with this website

Of course it starts with the poster child of protesters, Lisa McPherson, certainly a tragic death and the morgue shots with the 149 cockroach bites and the bruised wrists and ankles are slamdunk prima facie evidence of criminal negligence which was originally charged but (apparently) CoS spent millions of dollars to destroy the career of the District Attorney who dropped the charges and shortly thereafter died young

Some people fucked up and both policy and tech were violated. Some questionable policies appear to be a significant contributory factor as well

Pfaff wasn't getting epileptic meds per a "Scientology doctor". Clear violation of policy, in fact every org is required to have a sign directing those with physical ailments to a physician.

No connection is made between Havenith and Scientology other than the location of his death.

The sea org went to sea with seven ships for eight years. Thousands of people passed through those ships. One young woman played the "Look Ma! I'm an asterisk!" game. Any qualified actuary will verify on sight Ron's private navy had a very low suicide rate

Gabriella died of untreated cancer. Correct policy is to treat cancer with medical means assisted by auditing

YOU!!!

Are playing the Tweedle Dee - Tweedle Dum Game; the number one favorite game of antiscilons. Tweedle Dum goes into CoS and makes a mess often complete with untimely corpses then Tweedle Dee says "See! We told you it was nothing but crap!"
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yes, I would agree that it is the ideas and techniques that are most important.

The technique he developed to make millions by starting a religion succeeded.

And to a degree, the techniques he developed to break up families and harm perceived enemies through his policy on Fair Game succeeded.

The techniques to create Clear's and OT's has failed. Not a single Clear or OT has been created with the abilities he promised.

The techniques he developed to fix an individuals mental health dramatically failed to handle his own mental health issues despite having access to the very best auditors and Case Supervisors on the planet.

His techniques on how to create a successful marriage failed for him personally, three out of three times. Also they failed for Tom Cruise, the most dedicated Scientologist,three out of three times.

His techniques to create music, photography, and other art are not very good. Look at the photography in the original What is Scientology? book and you'll see what I'm talking about.
Pitsy...

Starting from the bottom...

Ron as an artist was 95% wannabe. The most generous plausible thing you could say of him was that he was a gifted storyteller

Ron's first two marriages are pre-dianetics Pitsy and his third lasted 30 years and probably would have (appeared) to last until death if Mary Sue hadn't been indicted

"Clear" as a permanent state might not exist. "Keyed-out clear" certainly does. "OT" perception, communication and causation can NOT be proven. My personal experience indicates affirmation of them.

No "professional" or amateur diagnosis or assessment of L. Ron Hubbard's "mental health" are given any credence at this desk

"Fair Game" sucks chancrous donkey dick.

Yup. He raked in millions.

But the techniques I'm most interested in are the ones I and others use for our own and each others benefit as well as those in our environment.

If you cannot or will not use said techniques thus you should respect those who do because we're the only ones who might be able to address CoS abuses.
 
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Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
This might be, to use cultspeak "out-gradient" but maybe start with why are they dead

Ten minutes to start. Then eleven tomorrow, etc.
Another thing Dave...

I've been on this board since 2010

I have stated several times I have not seen my three sons since 1980 and that my first born son was dead for four years before I was even informed of it. Furthermore, he died of leukemia. When I was born in 1949 childhood leukemia was an automatic death sentence. Today 85% survive and when he died it was 80%. He was a bright strong courageous child the four years I knew him and if I could have broken through the blockade my presence might have made a difference. His uncle, Greg Wilhere, for decades one of the top half dozen executives in CSI delivered the coup de grace on my efforts

CoS BULL FUCKING SHIT!!! is a very significant factor in the wrongful death of my son

Yet somehow people on this board accuse me of being a "koolaid drinker" or even an OSA operative

I know CoS horsecrap up close and personal bigtime and I'm sure as hell not going to be their flunky or their toady.

I also know something of what intelligent men and women of good will can do with auditing and auditor training.

Just for one thing...

My lifelong best friend's death gave me an opportunity to do some independent cancer research which led to a theory on early detection which proved sound and is sparing lives even as we speak and I could not have developed my research technique w/o my dianetic training
 

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
I also know something of what intelligent men and women of good will can do with auditing and auditor training.
No problem with that. I saw good, intelligent people helping others ... in Scientology and outside of Scientology. What I would add to your statement is that "intelligent men and women of good will" can and do wonderful things all over the world.

I think the important factor is good, intelligent people not Scientology "tech". Given a box of rocks, good, intelligent people could do good things with it.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
That is correct, counselor

Hubbard promised to deliver the permanent State of Clear, and directed his organizations to sell the 'Bridge' to Clear and above, and charged good money for it.

If he failed to do that how would that be any more ethical than if I had sold you the Brooklyn Bridge despite my inability to do so?
Wouldn't you consider that fraudulent marketing?
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
There’s probably very little on this site I disagree with. I lived it for a long time - pretty much making my way to ‘the top’ in processing and training. SHSBC, etc. Was also on staff for years, but not in the SO. But I worked alongside them and saw the happenings. For quite a while I walked around with a permanent grey rag tucked in my pocket, ready for my next ‘liability’ assignment. That was an automatic assigned condition when I was procuring staff and specific staff post were unfilled. Yes, interesting days - and nights sleeping on a camp bed and sneaking into the dreaded Herbie Parkhouse’s office in the GO for an early morning shower! Oops! Not allowed.

I slipped away quietly from Sc. and was not declared SP. I left during the time of the mass walk out of many old timers right across the planet. Maybe newer people don’t know that happened I wonder how many have wondered the real reason for that walk out - beyond the fact of us being fed up with rising costs of services and getting piles of yellow ethics orders dumped on our desk daily to see who we weren’t allowed to speak to anymore!

I’m going to express a different view of Scientology. Many will think I’ve lost the plot!! That is OK. Go for it. I don’t mind. Look how often we enthusiastically told friends and family about Scientology - and they were totally convinced we’d lost the plot and needed serious help. I’ll say it anyway and maybe it will help someone see it all from a higher perspective of truth. I know it’s hard to see another view while we’re still stuck in the pain of the ‘story’. But that story is a limited picture and just a 3D perspective. However, that 3D story really needed to be told and a million thanks to all those ex’s who spoke out to the media, wrote books, etc. Their courage assisted greatly to bring up to the surface, trauma to be released.

When I left Sc, I took time (as many did) to reassess it all. I am so glad I really worked at that. It served me well for my future path. I did my best to let go of any negative emotions about the tough times; to handle the major loss I felt of the group dynamic (I’m sure most of us long termers had); and to work on holding strong and reinforcing all the spiritual gains I’d had, which were many. I felt much of that gain was due to the deeper understanding gained from taking the training route - SHSBC etc. I then used all I’d gained in Scio to act as a springboard so as to keep growing spiritually, seeking out where the universe led me onto other paths to gain further understanding.

I just read the post by wogwog about what got them in and out of Scientology. An amazing insight and very clever. I can pretty much agree with most of that. But, it’s viewed only from a 3D perspective. You may say how else can it be viewed?

So, here I go. The start of another story, but it’s a different story. Not as ‘way out’ as the Xenu saga maybe!! But it’s my truth.

1. We are multi dimensional beings in a multi dimensional universe which means there are consequently many different levels of truth. There’s the limited 3D view (the obvious one) and then there are higher dimensional reasons for everything that occurs in each of our lives and in all events on Earth. Sometimes we can see the higher reason, but mostly not. Luckily, we don’t need to see it, because the learning we obtain comes from the way we choose to handle the experiences we encounter.

2. The Earth is continually evolving, as are we.

3. Millions of us incarnated here, as early as Lemuria and Atlantis, to assist the evolvement of Earth birthing into a higher frequency of light. We came here from other planets and systems. Does anyone still believe life only exists on Earth? Out of this entire vast universe? Hopefully, many are now past that limited idea.

4. For all of us, having spent many lifetimes accruing and often burying all sorts of heavy energy traumatic experiences in the ‘reactive mind’ (to use a Scio term), we arrive at our current lifetime - our ‘wrap up lifetime’ - all destined and planned, the last before returning home. Additionally, for all the Old Souls here, it is their last ever incarnation in any 3rd dimension. There will no longer be a need for them to bring their experience and help to a 3D incarnated world. After this run on Earth, all information gained will be slotted into the Akashic records for others to learn from. I won’t go into that. Just trying to keep it to a minimum.

5. Fact. In order to return home at the end of this incarnation, we need to be vibrating at a certain frequency of light. Any dense energy sitting in the various subtle bodies we each have (mental, emotional, etc.) prevents this and so it needs to be released.

6. Various technologies were pre-planned (from a higher perspective), to come into being in this incarnation, to assist the releasing of any dense energy buried from previous incarnations of all those who came to help the Earth on this Divine Plan!

7. Scientology and especially Dianetics was one of the major technologies planned to achieve this - to be overseered by LRH. It works if held precise mathematically correct. It did exactly what it was designed to do. It released engrams and trauma by the ton. It also helped us remember we were more than ‘a body’ and were actually a spiritual being.

8. In the higher plan, sufficient time being in Scio was allowed - enough time to help us release as much past life trauma stuff as possible. We didn’t need to get rid of it all, just the bulk of it, to give us a good kick star. Then, more time was allowed; 5 years was the estimate that most of us would need to get over it all; go beyond any negative aspects of our Scio experience; disorientation; disillusionment; time to get ‘out of the head’ from being in this very analytical scientific subject and get ‘into the heart’; to realign to unconditional love and get over the loss of the group dynamic/bridge, many had. The overall goal was to get ourselves in a clearer space, more balanced and ready to carry out the role each of us chose to do to this lifetime. For many it took the 5 years to get over it and prepare for what lay ahead (our actual work on Earth). Of course, there’s always a choice. We can sit in blame and regret and be a victim or we can act as a creator and master of our life, grasp it and move forward. There are 4 flows to an engrams!

9. There were many universal signs put into play to trigger us to leave Scio - e.g. ethics orders gone mad declaring everyone and his mother an SP and being told we had to disconnect! Some did disconnect for a while (fear!), but then for many the clincher came and it was our best friend - and it was ‘no way! Lots of other signs including the mass worldwide walk out.

10. So, that’s my understanding of the higher reason for Scientology and Dianetics. LRH did a great job actually, but I don’t expect that is easy for some to believe. I’m eternally grateful to him. He allowed me to receive a technology that released heaps of dense energy and allowed me to move. I have enjoyed a great life, understanding more of the perfection of the universe has made me grateful for every part of my life. We go on ever learning and growing and helping others. Isn’t that why we are all here? Everyone is helping everyone else.

Obviously, this is a limited description of one aspect of a very large universal picture, but it is simple (truth always is) and hopefully is enough for those who choose to go within for their own truth. We can all reach that place of inner knowing, if we let go and listen.

See you at the banquet on the way home!

This is all just ideas and sort of a hodgepodge at that.

Nothing evidentiary beyond subjective conjecture.

I don't mean to demean it or anything but there's no way to substantiate anything here.
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hubbard promised to deliver the permanent State of Clear, and directed his organizations to sell the 'Bridge' to Clear and above, and charged good money for it.

If he failed to do that how would that be any more ethical than if I had sold you the Brooklyn Bridge despite my inability to do so?
Wouldn't you consider that fraudulent marketing?
Hubbard, as Gib informs us, studied Wilbur's work on rhetoric and was somewhat egregious in it's application. If it's rhetoric were cheap perfume DMSMH could make a French whore smell like a country meadow.


I'm not in CoS Pitsy.

I'm here.

And the rest of this post appears in the next.
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
No problem with that. I saw good, intelligent people helping others ... in Scientology and outside of Scientology. What I would add to your statement is that "intelligent men and women of good will" can and do wonderful things all over the world.

I think the important factor is good, intelligent people not Scientology "tech". Given a box of rocks, good, intelligent people could do good things with it.


I couldn't agree with fuller heart Bill.

And though you do not mention it I have no doubt whatsoever you saw good intelligent people get screwed senseless in scientology (and out of it).

In my own humble opinion, based on substantial experience, the body of work produced by Hubbard and his colleagues is of great and unique value

Value which is hampered by several things not the least of which is Hubbard's rhetoric and questionable policies; most of them covering the Founder's butt and thus tolerable while he was here
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Hubbard, as Gib informs us, studied Wilbur's work on rhetoric and was somewhat egregious in it's application. If it's rhetoric were cheap perfume DMSMH could make a French whore smell like a country meadow.


I'm not in CoS Pitsy.

I'm here.

And the rest of this post appears in the next.
I asked a pretty simple question which you completely avoided addressing.

Maybe you can go back and find your misunderstood word. :)

And with regards to your comment [bcolor=#ffff99]"I'm not in CoS Pitsy. I'm here"[/bcolor] - it matters not where YOU are. My question had zero to do with you, your location, or your membership (or lack thereof) in the CoS.
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
I asked a pretty simple question which you completely avoided addressing.

Maybe you can go back and find your misunderstood word. :)

And with regards to your comment [bcolor=#ffff99]"I'm not in CoS Pitsy. I'm here"[/bcolor] - it matters not where YOU are. My question had zero to do with you, your location, or your membership (or lack thereof) in the CoS.
WTF?

What question do you believe me to be avoiding?
 

George Layton

Silver Meritorious Patron
I was on staff at FCDC from Sep '72 to jun '74 as staff staff auditor married to a Basic Course Supervisor and we maitained a pleasant, modern two room plus full bath apartment on staff pay.

I certainly have wide open ears for all and especially former staff who had much less and worse

but...

what I personally experienced was not too bad...
Birdsong in a nutshell.
 

George Layton

Silver Meritorious Patron
Pitsy...

Starting from the bottom...

Ron as an artist was 95% wannabe. The most generous plausible thing you could say of him was that he was a gifted storyteller

Ron's first two marriages are pre-dianetics Pitsy and his third lasted 30 years and probably would have (appeared) to last until death if Mary Sue hadn't been indicted

"Clear" as a permanent state might not exist. "Keyed-out clear" certainly does. "OT" perception, communication and causation can NOT be proven. My personal experience indicates affirmation of them.

No "professional" or amateur diagnosis or assessment of L. Ron Hubbard's "mental health" are given any credence at this desk

"Fair Game" sucks chancrous donkey dick.

Yup. He raked in millions.

But the techniques I'm most interested in are the ones I and others use for our own and each others benefit as well as those in our environment.

If you cannot or will not use said techniques thus you should respect those who do because we're the only ones who might be able to address CoS abuses.
How long has little dave's marriage lasted?
 
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