Anti-Scientology Fair Game

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Scientology Fair Game is one of its most pernicious practices.

Moral equivalence is a term used mostly in political debate, usually to deny that a moral comparison can be made about the actions of two groups in conflict against each other.

If the United States invades a country, for instance, in order to free them from despotic rule, that’s not morally equivalent to the USSR invading them, and enslaving them in totalitarian communism. That’s one classic use of the term ‘moral equivalence’ from the Cold War. (I’ll not comment any further)

So you’ll usually hear people make the argument that something done by one group is not morally equivalent to the same thing done by their enemy.

Yet the concept is much more useful when you perceive that one particular act committed by one side of a conflict is just as morally reprehensible if committed by the other.

FAIR GAME is a great example of moral equivalence.

Fair game is a policy set down by L Ron Hubbard where critics and other “enemies’ of the Church of Scientology were to be treated as ‘fair game’, where anything could be done to destroy them with no punishment to the Scientologist.

If you think about it, FAIR GAME would be just as morally reprehensible if done TO the Church of Scientology as it would be if it was done BY the Church of Scientology.

And so when Anti-Scientologists engage in Fair Game, that would be morally equivalent to when the Church of Scientology engages in Fair Game.

Right?

I’ve recently had a very civil and productive discussion with an avowed anti-Scientologist who is intelligent and articulate, and who seems to have every valid reason to be an anti-Scientologist.

She made the argument to me that BECAUSE Scientology was so morally reprehensible, then immoral acts such as fair game committed against Scientology and Scientologists are morally acceptable.

It was a very interesting discussion, to me at least. I think it’s the kind which needs to be had. So I’m going to publish it here for you to see.

I don’t believe, by the way, that I “won” the argument. I believe that, in our dialogue, we articulated our positions clearly, allowing you to decide which is more sound.

And so I present them here for you.

___________________________________________

Susan Smith
Cathy Tweed didn’t need compassion, but her daughter did! How any mother can abandon a child like she abandoned Taylor is beyond my imagination. If this is what Scientology teaches an investigation of the religion or cult needs to be started immediately.

Alanzo
This is not what Scientology teaches.
But it is too often the result of being a Scientologist in the Church of Scientology.
Maybe that can change.
Your investigation can begin by signing this petition.
Thanks for your comment and welcome to Alanzosblog!

Lora
Actually what tologists are taught is how to systematically have compassion and love for others … and to withhold these attributes at the drop of a dime. Any hesitation is met with an array of BS designed to keep their members suppressed. The actions C. Tweed took are consistent with that of a robot. Who knows what she really felt. Hard to say. At this point, she is well aware that she represents a cult and chooses not to walk away. No excuse. She can’t unknow what she knows. Pretending it’s all good is pro quo for many of the long term members. They know. At some point the writing on the wall appears. Failure to respond due to ignorance or fear is no longer an acceptable response. It an excuse.

Alanzo
Well said.
How much longer should Cathy Tweed be punished for her daughter’s suicide?

Lora
I guess that’s up to her. I imagine its why she stays put. I don’t think of her being punished? Her kid killed herself. She neglectedd her which helped it along. Could happen to anyone regardless of whatever faithless religion they represent. However, if you get behind the wheel of car drunk and kill someone by accident, you do life. Cathy is probably punishing herself by staying in the Church much more than those on the outside are. AND, she doesn’t get to see the shows or hear about them anyway right? Not really relevant.

Alanzo
It is relevant.

Cathy Tweed is not responsible for any of the abuse in the Church of Scientology. She’s not a public figure. She’s not a whale who donates large sums of money to keep the Church afloat. She’s not a celebrity who’s out there trying to promote Scientology.

She’s just a mother who has lost her daughter to suicide, and who happens to be a Scientologist.
Just as you mention, plenty of mothers do everything in their power – the best they know how – for their daughters to help them through tough times. And sometimes those mothers lose their daughters to suicide. Can you think of anything more catastrophic than that for any mother?

Here’s something to think about: If you want to ensure that no scientologist ever comes out of the Church, keep rubbing the suicide of her daughter in Cathy Tweed’s face. Keep being this cruel. It’s a Christmas present for David Miscavige that just keeps on giving. He says, “See how barbaric and cruel these “wogs” are? You do not want anything to do with those people!”

You asked why Cathy Tweed is still in Scientology and hasn’t left yet.

Could this be a reason for that?

You know, despite what Leah and Mike want you to think, Scientologists are not pedophiles. They don’t deserve eternal punishment for their mistakes, do they?

Don’t you think Taylor’s suicide is enough punishment for Cathy Tweed?

So gotta ask again: How long should Cathy Tweed be punished for her daughter’s suicide?
Alanzo

Lora
What I don’t get is what side your on? There is much more tragedy happening in that church then the honor of Kathy Tweed. Maybe she has to take a hit for the team. Team shut the Fn Co$ down.
I don’t know how you can claim to be anti scientology and even more so and X member and not want to close that place down. Its mind boggling and from what I have surfed on your blog, I’m not alone in my amusement of your lukewarm perspective.

Mike Rinder was a complete scum bag. He destroyed hundreds of lives as a fair gamer and the ripple effect isn’t even chartable. Yet, he admits it, and exposes the church at the expense of himself. Kathy Tweed stays put living her flatliner lie. She should come on the Leah Remini show and expose her master at her expense. Put the blame on the right target. As should you.

And to answer the time tested question ” How long should Cathy Tweed be punished for her daughter’s suicide?”

Raising my kids in these schools, I saw plenty of shitty parenting done by OT7’s. Yes 3 off the top of my head. Covered for things like sexual perversion to simple orphaning a kid to be on course all the time.” Which this particular parents response was ” its okay, ill audit it out of her”. I happen to also suck as a parent. I paid 35K for my eldest son to do a Narcanon program in Nevada. He is a drugged out homeless person today. He literally lives in an encampment. If he chose to take his life ( not that I feel he even has one), I will be blamed forever by those who think I could have done more, loved more, given more…. I won’t be expecting people to understand or take pity on me. In fact the circles I run with, would blamed the engrained scn thinking for his lack of Medication or shrinks. Because I am totally upfront with my crappy mindset on these issues and I get called out frequently when I robotically attempt to inject into a moment with some Scn BS. Easier for me now that my mom has disconnected and hence it spilt over to all my kids childhood friends being forced to disconnect from them. Total devastation btw. And you want me to feel sorry for KATHY .. HA. She should feel sorry for me. My kids are alive and stuck living the mess of a crazy ass religion they were raised by. As I attempt to patch up their tender souls one day at a time.
Alanzo

Lora asked:
What I don’t get is what side your on? There is much more tragedy happening in that church then the honor of Kathy Tweed. Maybe she has to take a hit for the team. Team shut the Fn Co$ down.
I get asked this all the time, so I repeatedly answer this question, over and over.

Here’s my latest explanation:

Does Anti-Scientology Deserve Any Criticism?

The truth is on all sides of a conflict, not just one.

Lora
Read it and okay you feel that Leah and Mike should be criticized for embellishing on their quest to expose. And somehow, you feel this is unjust to the Co$ corp that they are trying to take down. Do you support anyone who is trying to get Co$ handled? I think their actions justify their means. To give a comparison: if your local priest had raped 15 alter boys all of which came forward to parents but weren’t allowed to tell police for fear of sbeing stocked and abused by the church and you knew this as you were friends of these families, would you A: Wait for the right kid to be molested in which the family was willing to take the church head on or B. Exaggerate or embellish to get the cops to look into it?

Alanzo
So the ends justify the means?

That’s exactly how Scientology thinks, just flipped for Anti-Scientology.

Real justice means the innocent don’t get harmed, just the guilty do. When Leah lied and told the Hollywood Reporter that all Scientologists believe in pedophilia, that lie smeared all kinds of innocent people. The fact is that almost all those pedophile cover-ups in Scientology were orchestrated by Mike Rinder as the head of the Office of Special Affairs.

I know of no one in Scientology – who weren’t Int Base Sea Org members or were being threatened by them – who would ever cover up pedophilia anywhere.

Mike Rinder wants us all to believe that all Scientologists were as crazy and fanatical as he was in Scientology.

Wrong. As the head of the Office of Special Affairs for 22 years, working directly for David Miscavige every day, there have been very few people as crazy and fanatical in Scientology as Mike Rinder.
All kinds of history is being revised here, and all kinds of reality is being pasted over.
So I’m speaking up.

If more people did that in Scientology, David Miscavige would be gone.

So the bottom line for me, Lora, is that if lying and smearing people is wrong then it is wrong for Scientologists AND for Anti-Scientologists.

I’ve been around too long, and seen too much, to be a one-sided fanatic any more.
People need the truth to get justice. And the truth exists on all sides of the conflict.

Lora
“When Leah lied and told the Hollywood Reporter that all Scientologists believe in pedophilia, that lie smeared all kinds of innocent people. The fact is that almost all those pedophile cover-ups in Scientology were orchestrated by Mike Rinder as the head of the Office of Special Affairs.”

So which is it, the acts never happened or Rinder was in charge of the cover ups?

And remember our friends that are still practing tologists are getting this side of the story. They are hearing whatever MicCabbage wants them to hear.

Honestly, i just feel like your still really locked up in your head on this. SCN bad. All of it. And the minions that stay are part of the casualty. I bet my mom would rather know that her lifes work has been a lie, and to rebuild relationship with her grankids and the world around her, then to be sure her fellow minion’s feelngs dont get hurt.

“So I’m speaking up.

If more people did that in Scientology, David Miscavige would be gone..”

Spoke up on what? We are thier eyes and voice. You and I. So while you want to make sure that no one gets hurt and you are a fair and impartial anti tologist, these folks are being robbed blind. The fact that Rinder is fanatical is exactly what should motivate you to help the sheep. The wolves are going to eat them. One fanatical wolf can eat many many sheep.

“So the bottom line for me, Lora, is that if lying and smearing people is wrong then it is wrong for Scientologists AND for Anti-Scientologists.”

I say that sometimes a lie can save way more lives then the truth. This isn’t a get into heaven with a gold star contest. Its about setting the people of SNC free and arresting the scum that keeps them locked up in thier heads. Its about restoring families. Its about awareness and stopping new pre clears from entering the bldg or taking what seems like harmless personality tests. ( which is also a lie). Its about making a house a home where parents raise thier own kids and not the CO$ Corp. So white lies and name smearing.. ehh whatever. Anyone who actually makes it out with thier mind in tack won’t cry about the lies, they will cry about the time lost.

If you have some better groups or individuals that you feel are better to support in this cause , Im all ears.

Alanzo
You definitely express the viewpoint I used to have as an anti-Scientologist very well. I thought exactly as you have expressed here for probably 13 or 14 years.

I’ve just learned that I can’t do that any more.

It’s kinda along these lines for me now:

“Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster… for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.”
― Friedrich W. Nietzsche

___________________________________________

Who was right here?
 

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
@Alanzo

You regularly talk about and criticize the evil "Anti-Scientologists" and seem to think many are here. Now we find that there are TWO people who are your "Anti-Scientologists" and (are/aren't) here.

Can you please stop ranting about "Anti-Scientologists" and simply rant about Lora and Susan? Thanks.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
@Alanzo

You regularly talk about and criticize the evil "Anti-Scientologists" and seem to think many are here. Now we find that there are TWO people who are your "Anti-Scientologists" and (are/aren't) here.

Can you please stop ranting about "Anti-Scientologists" and simply rant about Lora and Susan? Thanks.
Bill weighs in.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Leah Remini & Mike Rinder’s Anti-Scientology Minions Fair Game Monique Rathbun’s Business

If you’ll read the posts below, you’ll see that many leading Ex-Scientologists and critics of the Church of Scientology, myself included, do not approve of fair game in any form.

But for Mike Rinder’s minions, who know that their leader RAN fair game for the Church of Scientology against its critics for 22 years, fair game is obviously not off the table for critics of theirs.

I left anti-Scientology because of the cruelty and persecution I saw there. You see, you do not go through all you have to go through to leave one cruel group (Scientology), just to join another cruel group (anti-Scientology).

Here are Mike Rinder’s minions planning their fair game of Monique Rathbun in their Facebook Group:

Fair-Game-1.jpg
Fair-game-2.jpg
Fair-game-3.jpg
Fair-Game-5.jpg
Fair-game-6.jpg
Fair-Game-7.jpg
fair-game-8.jpg

Additional screenshots from the closed Anti-Scientology Facebook Group The Outer Banks where the fair game of Monique Rathbun was discussed by fans of Leah Remini and Mike Rinder. Karen “Indy OSA” De La Carriere chimes in, and provides some of the first "likes" too.

01.png
02.png
03.png

TO BE CONTINUED...
 
Last edited:

Tanchi

Patron with Honors
How is Mrs. Rathbun's cake business doing? Did all the negative reviews shut her down?

Those FB groups are not owned, admin.ed or moderated by Rinder or Remini.
 

Caroline

Patron Meritorious
At least some of the Aftermath people are still okay with the SP doctrine and declaring certain people "evil." They just don't want to be on the receiving end.

Aftermath Season 1 Episode 3 said:
[00:39:17.755]
Mary Kahn (at home): I just wish something legally could be done. You know, it's like, "Why is it okay for somebody to use this policy of disconnection?"

I mean, I'm fine with declaring evil people evil. But they took it to another point. Where they're declaring good people evil. And as soon as they do that, you lose your family and your way of life. And everything you've known.

The average guy out there would, might say, "Why did you join a Church you know, when you knew what the rules were? When you knew that you could be disconnected from? Because that's part of the tenets.

Well, I never felt that I would ever be declared an evil person.
Gerry reached out to Leah Remini in February 2019 about the Aftermath's support for Scientology's SP doctrine. (Complete letter with images here.)

Gerry Armstrong said:
February 19, 2019

Dear Ms. Remini:

I am writing about your presentation of the Scientologists’ “Suppressive Person” doctrine, or “SP” doctrine, in your Aftermath series. As you know, I represent the SP Class, and my wife Caroline and I maintain a Suppressive Person Defense League site: http://suppressiveperson.org/

[...]

Following are excerpts from the first few episodes that relate to the SP doctrine:

[bcolor=#ffff99] Season 1 Episode 0 [00:19:54.396][/bcolor]

[bcolor=#ffff99] S1E0[/bcolor]

[bcolor=#ffff99] LR: And I remember thinking, “If that were true, then the police would be raiding this place. And the FBI would be doing something. If this were true, how come no one has done anything about it?” And I want you to talk about that.[/bcolor]

[bcolor=#ffff99] MR: The primary reason Leah is because people within Scientology are indoctrinated heavily that law enforcement –the FBI, the police or whatever–, they’re all horrible suppressive people.[/bcolor]

[bcolor=#ffff99] [Screen: A Suppressive Person is a destructive person intent on harming others; this includes critics of Scientology.][/bcolor]

[bcolor=#ffff99] MR: So the concept of even going to them is something that just never enters the mind of a Scientologist.[/bcolor]

A Suppressive Person is not a destructive person intent on harming anyone. This redefines “Suppressive Person,” and is black propaganda that harms SPs, the religious class created in Scientology religious scripture, and helps the Scientologists “defend” the SP doctrine.

If you use that definition, you must make sure that it is very clear that this is Hubbard’s or the Scientologists’ definition. Otherwise, you are yourself endorsing and forwarding the definition and the doctrine based on it.

[bcolor=#ffff99]Season 1 Episode 1 [00:36:43.541][/bcolor]

[bcolor=#ffff99] S1E1[/bcolor]

[bcolor=#ffff99] [00:36:29.741][/bcolor]

[bcolor=#ffff99] [Screen: After Amy left Scientology she was declared an enemy of the Church or a “Suppressive Person”][/bcolor]

[bcolor=#ffff99] [00:36:32.981][/bcolor]

[bcolor=#ffff99] MR (in studio): For a Scientologist being declared a Suppressive Person is — It is a fate worse than death.[/bcolor]

[bcolor=#ffff99] [Screen: SUPPRESSIVE PERSON (SP)[/bcolor]

[bcolor=#ffff99] A destructive person intent on harming others; this includes critics of Scientology][/bcolor]

[bcolor=#ffff99] AS: Before I left the Church of Scientology, I did every single thing they asked me to do so that I would not get declared a Suppressive Person. Because I have family in Scientology. I know the ramifications of the disconnection policy. I’ve seen it with other people. And breaking up families. And how devastating it is. And I am very close with my family. And especially my mom.[/bcolor]

[bcolor=#ffff99] […][/bcolor]

[bcolor=#ffff99] LR: I mean, if you read about what a Suppressive Person is, this is a person who loves that people are destroyed. This is a person who loves when people are in pain.[/bcolor]

[bcolor=#ffff99] So if you have that idea, that Suppressive People are these other things that come out of the ground, that are devils, that–. No! You never think you’re going to be considered one of those people as a Scientologist. Ever.[/bcolor]

[bcolor=#ffff99]Again, an SP is not a destructive person intent on harming others. An SP does not love that people are destroyed or in pain. SPs are not things that come out of the ground, that are devils. SPs are not such entities any more than the Jews are such entities. Jews are a similar minority religious group. Saying SPs are destructive persons intent on harming others is as bad, if not worse, than saying Jews are destructive persons intent on harming others. Saying SPs love that people are destroyed or in pain, or that SPs are devils, is as bad, if not worse, than saying Jews are these evils.[/bcolor]

[bcolor=#ffff99] Season 1 Episode 2 [00:12:32.086][/bcolor]

[bcolor=#ffff99] S1E2[/bcolor]

[bcolor=#ffff99] [00:12:28.400][/bcolor]

[bcolor=#ffff99] MR (in kitchen): Fair Game is the idea that anybody who is an enemy or a critic of Scientology may have anything done to them with the idea that the ends justifies the means. And there is a bunch of writings by L. Ron Hubbard that describe how you get rid of an attacker.[/bcolor]

[bcolor=#ffff99] [Screen: HCOPL 18 October 1967 Penalties for Lower Conditions.][/bcolor]

[bcolor=#ffff99] It basically says that you can do anything to a critic or an enemy of Scientology and not be subjected to any form of Scientology justice or ethics handling as a result.[/bcolor]

[bcolor=#ffff99] LR: But the Church claims that policy has been cancelled.[/bcolor]

[bcolor=#ffff99] [Screen: HCO PL 21 October 1968 Cancellation of Fair Game][/bcolor]

[bcolor=#ffff99] MR: It was cancelled for PR reasons. And that this does not change the treatment of SPs, Suppressive Persons.[/bcolor]

[bcolor=#ffff99] [Screen: SUPPRESSIVE PERSON (SP)[/bcolor]

[bcolor=#ffff99] A destructive person intent on harming others. This includes critics of Scientology][/bcolor]

Again, SPs are not destructive persons intent on harming others. You must correct this falsehood you are perpetrating about the SP class.

SPs are, even by Hubbard’s definition, persons who commit any Suppressive Acts. That is the correct definition.

Suppressive Acts are acts identified in Scientology scripture.

The identified Suppressive Acts are, in huge part, religious rites or sacraments, not recognizable as offenses of any kind in wog society.

These sacraments commonly involve telling the simple truth about Scientology-related matters that should have the truth told about them.

Scientology descriptions of the nature or character and intentions of SPs is false, hateful and threatening.

In their black PR campaigns, Scientologists say SPs are destructive, intent on harming others. The Scientologists equate SPs with persons identified by wog medical scientists as psychopaths, sociopaths or antisocial personalities. SPs, as I have shown, are in the vast majority, merely citizens who speak up and tell the truth about what the Scientology conspirators don’t want told.

What the Scientologists and their colluders say to black PR the SP religious class, to reduce us to beast level, is defamatory, evil and criminal. It is a facet of the Scientologists’ conspiracy against persons and rights.

I ask you to repudiate the SP doctrine, take down anything that shows your support for the doctrine, as shown above, and speak up in real defense of the pan-denominational SP religious class.

Sincerely,

Gerry Armstrong
 

Caroline

Patron Meritorious
Ron Miscavige Snr. positioned his and Mike Rinder's activities in terms of the SP doctrine in this February 24, 2019 interview. It is hard for me to view this as an "anti-Scientology" group, Alanzo, when they are framing their activities in terms of Hubbard's ideology on SP:

Ron Miscavige Snr. said:

Mike Rinder on the Aftermath of a Cult Part 1
Life After Scientology Episode 40

01:21.1 Good morning everybody. That song is called Basin Street Blues. That was written by Spencer Williams in 1928. And it was recorded by Louis Armstrong the same year.

Now that was played on a horn by the way that was made in 1915. So we're talking about you know 100 year old stuff working out. Where do you go on television or on the Internet and you're going to watch an interview show and a guy comes out and plays a song. Where do you go and hear this? Well I 'll tell you where. Life after Scientology, right here. And I'm Ron Miscavige. I'm your -- as Tony Ortega would say --your proprietor.

So good morning everyone and I have a very special guest and a very old friend of mine on this morning, which I'm going to, I absolutely guarantee you you're going to love this show. Because this gentleman is ah, very astute. He's walked the walk. He's done things in Scientology that ah, well you're going to see what he's done when he, when I start the program and start asking him some questions.

Now, before I get into that. Maybe you're wondering why would you come on and play a trumpet on a show that you're going to talk, take up a morbid subject.

02:39.3

Well, I'll tell you why. Just because we're handling some Suppressive group, that's really harming a lot of people in society, doesn't mean that WE have to be morbid. We can still enjoy our lives. And music, as far as I'm concerned, is one of the more enjoyable things that you could listen to. And I hope you enjoy what I'm doing. And you know send in your comments if you don't mind.

But there's another thing you can do. And that is this. And this is going to get you out of the pocket of just being a viewer or somebody who spectates and listens to these shows.

DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Now I'm sure you've heard this said many times by, by me or by Mike Rinder, or on his blog. As a matter of fact, it's the logo for his blog. And maybe Tony Ortega has even said it.

What do I mean by that? Well I tell you what. The simplest thing you can do is tell other people, "Hey you should watch this, you know, Ron Miscavige's Life After Scientology. You can get educated and enlightened on a Suppressive Group.

Or you could write to your senator. Or write to your congressman. Or watch Mike Rinder's blog, "Something can be done about it." Or watch Tony Ortega and get other people to do it. Or you could become a Patreon. I mean for two bucks, just that, you can say, "Hey, I'm doing something about it."

So that kind of compartments it into those things that you're handling. Rather than things that you're just worrying about and not doing anything. Now I know that's long winded, but I wanted to get that across to you because I'd love if you did that. And help us all in this endeavor that we're all doing to pro-, to expose this group.
 

He-man

Hero extraordinary
Not cool at all, I will never defend the Wrathbunny but this is in fact bullying of an extremely low order.

Anyone wants to explain to me if this is accepted behavior?

I fail to see how this has anything to do with Mike Reindeer though, how is he affiliated with this bunch?
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Not cool at all, I will never defend the Wrathbunny but this is in fact bullying of an extremely low order.

Anyone wants to explain to me if this is accepted behavior?

I fail to see how this has anything to do with Mike Reindeer though, how is he affiliated with this bunch?
The main instigators/eggers-on of the fair gaming in that thread ran the "Fans of Leah Remini's Scientology and the Aftermath" Facebook Group.
 

He-man

Hero extraordinary
The main instigators/eggers-on of the fair gaming in that thread ran the "Fans of Leah Remini's Scientology and the Aftermath" Facebook Group.
Got ya.

So Mike is guilty by association.

Funny that him and me would finally have something in common. A lot of that going around these days.

Attack the message. Not the man.
 

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
The main instigators/eggers-on of the fair gaming in that thread ran the "Fans of Leah Remini's Scientology and the Aftermath" Facebook Group.
See? Avoiding generalities and using specifics isn't all that hard, is it? :clap:
 

He-man

Hero extraordinary
“Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster… for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.”
― Friedrich W. Nietzsche

This is why, for me, it is so important to try to remain as factual and with as little bias as possible when engaging in open discourse. It is also the reason I try to refrain from going after specific individuals within Scientology, apart from the upper echelons. I never felt comfortable with the individual "cult bashing" that was so fervent on OCMB and WWP back in the days.

I say "try" because it's damn hard going. but I really like to believe that at times I have refrained from posting a lot of stuff I used to want to post.
 

He-man

Hero extraordinary
Has anyone seen @Veda?

He seems to have disappeared.
Don't be silly. Veda made a thread about the "Real fair gaming" to counteract your OP.

Why should he post on your side of the fence when you are clearly not posting on his side of the fence?
 
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