Anti-Scientology Fair Game

[PirateAndBum]

Cathy took the call and agreed to be interviewed by Tony. Her attitude definitely is one brought about by the belief system instilled by scientology. Taylor didn't get the help & support she needed because of the belief system of scientology. You are making assumptions about how Cathy feels and basing your response on your assumptions. The fact is that scientologists are taught and believe that beings live countless lives and that one lifetime is not so important, there will always be the next one. That is how one can "be at peace with what happened". So if she is at peace then why do you instead invent different feelings for her? The important thing to come away with from that tragedy is that Taylor's suicide could very well have be averted if she had been able to get real mental health counseling and if she had not been subjected to the cruel and careless ethics handlings and disconnection. It was scientology's hatred of all thing 'psych' that prevented Taylor from getting real help.

 

[Alanzo]

Cathy took the call and agreed to be interviewed by Tony. Her attitude definitely is one brought about by the belief system instilled by scientology. Taylor didn't get the help & support she needed because of the belief system of scientology. You are making assumptions about how Cathy feels and basing your response on your assumptions. The fact is that scientologists are taught and believe that beings live countless lives and that one lifetime is not so important, there will always be the next one. That is how one can "be at peace with what happened". So if she is at peace then why do you instead invent different feelings for her? The important thing to come away with from that tragedy is that Taylor's suicide could very well have be averted if she had been able to get real mental health counseling and if she had not been subjected to the cruel and careless ethics handlings and disconnection. It was scientology's hatred of all thing 'psych' that prevented Taylor from getting real help.

This is a complete & inhuman regurgitation of tbe anti scientology narrative. It shows no empathy or understanding of anyone who has just buried their child.

You think you understand the intimate lifelong relationship between Cathy and her daughter because Tony told Leah what to think about it and Leah told you what to think about it.

And what's more, you think you understand these extremely intimate and complex issues so well that you can say why Taylor Tweed committed suicide and blame her mother for it.

This is the robotic, alienated and unthinking cruelty of anti scientology.

Right here.

 

[Free to shine]

This is a complete & inhuman regurgitation of tbe anti scientology narrative. It shows no empathy or understanding of anyone who has just buried their child.

You think you understand the intimate lifelong relationship between Cathy and her daughter because Tony told Leah what to think about it and Leah told you what to think about it.

And what's more, you think you understand these extremely intimate and complex issues so well that you can say why Taylor Tweed committed suicide and blame her mother for it.

This is the robotic, alienated and unthinking cruelty of anti scientology.

Right here.

A little exercise. Every time you write "you think/say/do" replace the "you" with "I".

It's not a discussion if you tell people what you assume they think. It's arrogant and thought stopping.

And there are two sides to every story, both the unbearable pain of losing a child and the unbearable pain that led to her death. It's a subject that needs balance, and most of all kindness to everyone involved.

 

[Tanchi]

This is a complete & inhuman regurgitation of tbe anti scientology narrative. It shows no empathy or understanding of anyone who has just buried their child.

You think you understand the intimate lifelong relationship between Cathy and her daughter because Tony told Leah what to think about it and Leah told you what to think about it.

And what's more, you think you understand these extremely intimate and complex issues so well that you can say why Taylor Tweed committed suicide and blame her mother for it.

This is the robotic, alienated and unthinking cruelty of anti scientology.

Right here.

Imo, you demean all you interact with on this message board by the implication they cannot think for themselves.

I'd hazard a guess there are many here (and elsewhere) that are capable of thinking without someone to program their thoughts.

It's liberating to think for oneself.

 

[PirateAndBum]

This is a complete & inhuman regurgitation of tbe anti scientology narrative. It shows no empathy or understanding of anyone who has just buried their child.

You think you understand the intimate lifelong relationship between Cathy and her daughter because Tony told Leah what to think about it and Leah told you what to think about it.

And what's more, you think you understand these extremely intimate and complex issues so well that you can say why Taylor Tweed committed suicide and blame her mother for it.

This is the robotic, alienated and unthinking cruelty of anti scientology.

Right here.

No, it's not because anyone told me what to think about it. It is because I was a scientologist for 32 years and I know what beliefs are instilled. You can rant about it all you want. That isn't going to change the facts.

Losing a child is terrible thing. Losing a child needlessly is even more terrible. It's like parents that refuse to allow a sick child blood transfusions to save their lives. Beliefs can be deadly. If you don't want to acknowledge that, that is your prerogative.

 

[JustSheila]

This is a complete & inhuman regurgitation of tbe anti scientology narrative. It shows no empathy or understanding of anyone who has just buried their child.

You think you understand the intimate lifelong relationship between Cathy and her daughter because Tony told Leah what to think about it and Leah told you what to think about it.

And what's more, you think you understand these extremely intimate and complex issues so well that you can say why Taylor Tweed committed suicide and blame her mother for it.

This is the robotic, alienated and unthinking cruelty of anti scientology.

Right here.

You have no idea what you're talking about. None at all. You try to use words from others to appear less stupid, but you are utterly clueless. You're not even a parent, for goodness sake, but you're going to tell those of us who are parents what a parent feels when you have NO IDEA AT ALL? No personal knowledge whatsoever?

You parrot lines from Scn publications. Or lines you found elsewhere, but you don't understand what you write, you don't understand bigger concepts. You just pretend to understand. That's why YOU cannot have a discussion with anyone here, but the rest of us can have discussions, even when we disagree. Very young children do that, where they only see the world as something they personally experience and everyone in it as tools for their use. Then they grow out of it and realize everyone is an individual. Or, like you, they don't.

Talking to you is like talking to one of my parrots.

Besides, you wrote all this stuff on your blog years ago. It's like running an endless loop of Green Acres. Nothing new from you, just same ol, same ol reruns and repetitive phrases and words from boring Alanzo.

I know people like you, Alanzo. You repeat things and pretend you understand. You can't relate to others, can't understand others' viewpoints, so you think everyone must think the same, because you have something missing in your thought processes that you can't comprehend many concepts that others understand easily. You're not particularly intelligent and you have to pretend. But all that's happening is you're coming across about as smart as a pet rock with a recording machine. Nobody home.

 

[Alanzo]

You have no idea what you're talking about. None at all. You try to use words from others to appear less stupid, but you are utterly clueless. You're not even a parent, for goodness sake, but you're going to tell those of us who are parents what a parent feels when you have NO IDEA AT ALL? No personal knowledge whatsoever?

You parrot lines from Scn publications. Or lines you found elsewhere, but you don't understand what you write, you don't understand bigger concepts. You just pretend to understand. That's why YOU cannot have a discussion with anyone here, but the rest of us can have discussions, even when we disagree. Very young children do that, where they only see the world as something they personally experience and everyone in it as tools for their use. Then they grow out of it and realize everyone is an individual. Or, like you, they don't.

Talking to you is like talking to one of my parrots.

Besides, you wrote all this stuff on your blog years ago. It's like running an endless loop of Green Acres. Nothing new from you, just same ol, same ol reruns and repetitive phrases and words from boring Alanzo.

I know people like you, Alanzo. You repeat things and pretend you understand. You can't relate to others, can't understand others' viewpoints, so you think everyone must think the same, because you have something missing in your thought processes that you can't comprehend many concepts that others understand easily. You're not particularly intelligent and you have to pretend. But all that's happening is you're coming across about as smart as a pet rock with a recording machine. Nobody home.

I love how esmb is all about calling out the adhom

You never used to be this abusive, Sheila. Or maybe I just forgot.

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

At least some of the Aftermath people are still okay with the SP doctrine and declaring certain people "evil." They just don't want to be on the receiving end.


Gerry reached out to Leah Remini in February 2019 about the Aftermath's support for Scientology's SP doctrine. (Complete letter with images here.)

Caroline. Without going through a whole lot here as I have been up for 17 hours reading all kinds of things and I am rather tired, I will just say that there is one key part that I disagree with Gerry. There are two Hubbardian methods of defining an SP and those are A) the 12 Characteristics and B) as Gerry essentially stated the Crimes/High Crimes itemized in the NOT ETHICS book but the conflated, ethics with SCN (in)-JUSTICE, book.
I do however see how in practice the Scientologist's who adhere to method B as being the predominate and senior deciding method.

About the excerpted transcript of Leah talking about evil as suppressives...I will have to get back on that but it seems 'out of place or out of context or I am just too tired to have made sense of it...although I think it might actually tie into Gerry's omission of the 12 Characteristics...NO?

By the way, I was just thinking a couple of days ago that Gerry's actions resulting in the Admissions are on the top rung in my mind for the greatest reveal of the malignancy of Scientology and their organizations. And please pass along my gratitude for Gerry's integrity.

And before I pass out..lol, I do hope that Mike Rinder, who has stepped up quite nicely recently, will apologize in person to Gerry for what Mike did while acting as a truth suppressor et al and thus Gerry.

See ya over on the www.exscn2.net I expect.

 

[JustSheila]

I love how esmb is all about calling out the adhom

You never used to be this abusive, Sheila. Or maybe I just forgot.

I wasn’t, but your inability to differentiate is why you can’t see that. You have a problem connecting with others. You don’t understand humanistic or philosophical concepts so you copy and paste what others say and pretend. You have difficulty with empathy.

You have been mean and weren’t even aware of it.

I don’t think like a Scientologist, so I see your problem as a disability that you’ve never addressed.

 

[Alanzo]

No, it's not because anyone told me what to think about it. It is because I was a scientologist for 32 years and I know what beliefs are instilled. You can rant about it all you want. That isn't going to change the facts.

Losing a child is terrible thing. Losing a child needlessly is even more terrible. It's like parents that refuse to allow a sick child blood transfusions to save their lives. Beliefs can be deadly. If you don't want to acknowledge that, that is your prerogative.

You take the beliefs that you know through scientology and you assume this is the cause of everything you see regarding Cathy and Taylor Tweed, a mother and her daughter. Whom you do not know.

Because of your unholy crusade against your former religion you take your assumptions and make them into facts as if this is all you need to know.

You do not care about the cruelty of your ignorance in this matter, you just want your war on scientology to continue and this is a perfect weapon.

What if you're wrong? Who cares, right?

She's just a brainwashed Scientologist who lost her daughter to suicide.

 

[JustSheila]

^^^
See, this is what I’m talking about. Look at your post above, Alanzo.

You keep writing, “you think.” That’s wrong. It’s stupid, you telling someone what they think. Big clue: Your brain is in your head and you do your thinking, and other people have their own individual brains to do their thinking. You need to differentiate between your thoughts and feelings and others. You don’t know what others think and feel and since you are not a child anymore, you need to accept that.

 

[The_Fixer]

[QUOTE="Alanzo, post: 1227731,
See my blog post here about that:

Tony Ortega & Rachel Bernstein’s Abuse of Scientologist Cathy Tweed

Writing this story got me banned from Tony's blog, along with quite a few other social costs that came with it. Those costs remain to this day.

Looking back, knowing the costs this blog post exacted on me, would I write and publish it again?

Absolutely. I left Scientology because of the tribalism and cruelty I saw there, and helped to expose them on the Internet. Their resulting fair game also had a lot of social costs for me. I'm not going to sit around and say nothing while the same cruelty and abuse happens again in anti-Scientology.

See P&B, you don't see this stuff yet. You think you are "exposing the crimes and abuses of Scientology" with your friends. Too often, that's not what's happening at all. Too often, it's just a bunch of cruelty and repeated, robotic negativity about other human beings who presently have different beliefs than you do.

Cathy Tweed is not a public figure. She is not responsible for the abuse in Scientology. She lost a daughter to suicide. Lots of people think they know what goes on in the mind of a person who commits suicide and will blame others for it. It's one of the craziest and most cruel things you can do to a mother who has lost her daughter to suicide.

So back to the original point: when you see something like this, knowing that it will make you very unpopular among all your anti-Scientology friends, do you have the balls to speak up?

EDITED TO ADD ONE MORE QUESTION: And if you don't have the balls to speak up, but someone on your board does have the balls to speak up - how will you treat his unpopular ideas?[/QUOTE]


If you headed your post in that manner or style(no, I haven't looked yet), I would find it unsurprising you gòt yourself banned.

Tony would certainly not let you get away with the stuff you do here.

 

[Free to shine]

Wow, there seems to be an awful lot of "you/you're/your's" being thrown around here. Is this a contest?

 

[Caroline]

Caroline. Without going through a whole lot here as I have been up for 17 hours reading all kinds of things and I am rather tired, I will just say that there is one key part that I disagree with Gerry. There are two Hubbardian methods of defining an SP and those are A) the 12 Characteristics and B) as Gerry essentially stated the Crimes/High Crimes itemized in the NOT ETHICS book but the conflated, ethics with SCN (in)-JUSTICE, book.
I do however see how in practice the Scientologist's who adhere to method B as being the predominate and senior deciding method.

About the excerpted transcript of Leah talking about evil as suppressives...I will have to get back on that but it seems 'out of place or out of context or I am just too tired to have made sense of it...although I think it might actually tie into Gerry's omission of the 12 Characteristics...NO?

By the way, I was just thinking a couple of days ago that Gerry's actions resulting in the Admissions are on the top rung in my mind for the greatest reveal of the malignancy of Scientology and their organizations. And please pass along my gratitude for Gerry's integrity.

And before I pass out..lol, I do hope that Mike Rinder, who has stepped up quite nicely recently, will apologize in person to Gerry for what Mike did while acting as a truth suppressor et al and thus Gerry.

See ya over on the www.exscn2.net I expect.

Yay! A disagreement!

Seriously, I appreciate you putting your mind to this topic. I've forwarded your post to Gerry and he'd like to respond. I'll post it when he does.

 

[Veda]

-snip-

This is the robotic, alienated and unthinking cruelty of anti scientology.

-snip-

You're describing a serious personality disorder of a segment of the population.

_______________


HCO Bulletin of 27 September 1966

THE ANTI-SOCIAL PERSONALITY
THE ANTI-SCIENTOLOGIST​

There are certain characteristics and mental attitudes which cause about 20% of a race to oppose violently any betterment activity.

____________
​

​

 

[Veda]

-snip-

Because of your unholy crusade against your former religion

-snip-

You don't miss an opportunity to polish David Miscavige's pointy religion angle.

 

[PirateAndBum]

You take the beliefs that you know through scientology and you assume this is the cause of everything you see regarding Cathy and Taylor Tweed, a mother and her daughter. Whom you do not know.

Because of your unholy crusade against your former religion you take your assumptions and make them into facts as if this is all you need to know.

You do not care about the cruelty of your ignorance in this matter, you just want your war on scientology to continue and this is a perfect weapon.

What if you're wrong? Who cares, right?

She's just a brainwashed Scientologist who lost her daughter to suicide.

Could it be possible that the "cruelty" you keep talking about is of you own invention?

My exprience in co$ along with reading the experiences of others is quite adequate to make intelligent analysis of the presented information.

If you read Taylor's 1st few FB posts on Tony's article you can clearly see a condition of Doubt announcement, followed by step 1 of Liability - decide who are one's friends. I haven't seen anyone point that out.

What a terrible 'product' they achieved with Taylor's handling. Yes, I attribute that young woman's death to the indoctrinated behaviors members of co$. Not just her mother.

Even the death of her daughter hasn't woken Cathy up. If she ever does extricate herself from the cult she will have to come to peace with how it all went down. The truth hurts sometimes. You say you are interested in truth Allen.

 

[Alanzo]

Could it be possible that the "cruelty" you keep talking about is of you own invention?

My exprience in co$ along with reading the experiences of others is quite adequate to make intelligent analysis of the presented information.

If you read Taylor's 1st few FB posts on Tony's article you can clearly see a condition of Doubt announcement, followed by step 1 of Liability - decide who are one's friends. I haven't seen anyone point that out.

What a terrible 'product' they achieved with Taylor's handling. Yes, I attribute that young woman's death to the indoctrinated behaviors members of co$. Not just her mother.

Even the death of her daughter hasn't woken Cathy up. If she ever does extricate herself from the cult she will have to come to peace with how it all went down. The truth hurts sometimes. You say you are interested in truth Allen.

And so take a look at how the wog world (actually just anti-scientologists such as Tony Ortega Rachel Bernstein and Leah Remini et al - and all their ninnies). Would you ever leave Scientology after being subjected to this kind of cruelty?

There are no "sides" to the truth.

The truth is that you have no idea what was in Taylor Tweed's head at the time she committed suicide - but you are sure you do. And the reason you are so sure you know what made Taylor Tweed commit suicide is because it fits your cruel anti-Scientology agenda - and for no other reason.

Face it, P&B: Being Anti sucks. Never go full Anti.

You should step out of it every once in a while.

 

[PirateAndBum]

And so take a look at how the wog world (actually just anti-scientologists such as Tony Ortega Rachel Bernstein and Leah Remini et al - and all their ninnies). Would you ever leave Scientology after being subjected to this kind of cruelty?

There are no "sides" to the truth.

The truth is that you have no idea what was in Taylor Tweed's head at the time she committed suicide - but you are sure you do. And the reason you are so sure you know what made Taylor Tweed commit suicide is because it fits your cruel anti-Scientology agenda - and for no other reason.

Face it, P&B: Being Anti sucks. Never go full Anti.

You should step out of it every once in a while.

I never said I knew what was in her head. I do know what kind of treatment and lack of treatment goes on. Whatever was in her head, she didn't get the help she needed to go on living. That much is certain.

You think I'm anti, well you are wrong about that.

There's no comparable order of magnitude between: A) Taylor's death. and B) Opinions about her mother.

Do you deny that scientology beliefs were a significant factor to Taylor killing herself?

 

[Alanzo]

I never said I knew what was in her head. I do know what kind of treatment and lack of treatment goes on. Whatever was in her head, she didn't get the help she needed to go on living. That much is certain.

You think I'm anti, well you are wrong about that.

There's no comparable order of magnitude between: A) Taylor's death. and B) Opinions about her mother.

Do you deny that scientology beliefs were a significant factor to Taylor killing herself?

I'm saying I don't know.

You say you do know.

And I know that you don't know, either.

You just pretend to know because Cathy Tweed is a convenient scapegoat that confirms your existing anti-scientology beliefs.