Anti-Scientology Fair Game

Veda

Sponsor
FWIW, the Aftermath also scripted, produced, directed and edited Tayler Tweed's story (Season 2, Episode 2). They also produced, directed and edited the excerpts and their use from the responses of Cathy Tweed and corporate Scientology.

Here's a transcript of the beginning of the next episode:
I'm glad you agree with me.

abwKf7Dd_bigger.jpg


Please explain to Alanzo that Freedom, Media, and Ethics is a front group for Scientology's Freedom magazine and that it scripted, produced, and directed the referenced video.

He didn't understand when I told him.

a-and-e-branding-campaign.jpg

A product of Freedom magazine
 

Caroline

Patron Meritorious
I'm glad you agree with me.

abwKf7Dd_bigger.jpg


Please explain to Alanzo that Freedom, Media, and Ethics is a front group for Scientology's Freedom magazine and that it scripted, produced, and directed the referenced video.

He didn't understand when I told him.

a-and-e-branding-campaign.jpg

A product of Freedom magazine
Alanzo probably understands. The Aftermath quoted from a Scientology website too. From my transcript:
[Screen: THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY ALSO REPLIED]
[Scene: leahreminiaftermath.com [*]
[00:00:19.730]
Highlighted: "Remini featured a so-called "friend" Lauren Haggis to speak about Tayler even though Lauren had no relationship with Tayler Tweed for a decade. While they had been roommates for a short period at boarding school in their early teens, they were not friends after that. Now Haggis is grossly exploiting the death of someone she knew years ago to tell stories that she herself did not see nor witness. And Eli Holzman of Slauson production company disingenuously uses Lauren to narrate and give "details" based on hearsay. This disgusting act by Lauren is all in order to get publicity for herself just like her father did in using the Church to get publicity for his sagging career.
Tayler's close friends have said that after Tayler's death some very disreputable people started attempting to use it for their own personal gain. Her true friends were appalled."]
[Screen: BUT SURVIVORS CONTINUE TO COME FORWARD
EPISODE 3 STARTS NOW]
[*] The url <leahreminiaftermath.com> was visible for only four frames [0.117 seconds], but I was able to catch it in video-editing software.

Avidemux 2.7.3. said:
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Total Duration: 00:45:01.084
 

Veda

Sponsor
Alanzo probably understands. The Aftermath quoted from a Scientology website too. From my transcript:

[*] The url <leahreminiaftermath.com> was visible for only four frames [0.117 seconds], but I was able to catch it in video-editing software.
I'm not sure what your point is.

All I'm saying is that this video is canned, as in scripted.


photo-the-face-of-hate-leah-remini_en.jpg

"Face of hate and discrimination."
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Alanzo probably understands. The Aftermath quoted from a Scientology website too. From my transcript:

[*] The url <leahreminiaftermath.com> was visible for only four frames [0.117 seconds], but I was able to catch it in video-editing software.
Yes, I do understand that.

Facts are facts - whether they help "the enemy" or not.

The truth is never tribal.
 

Caroline

Patron Meritorious
I'm not sure what your point is.

All I'm saying is that this video is canned, as in scripted.


photo-the-face-of-hate-leah-remini_en.jpg

"Face of hate and discrimination."
I get what you're saying. My point is that the Aftermath's viewing audience got a scripted, produced, directed and edited version too.

I should post my informal transcript of the relevant Aftermath segment:

Aftermath Season 2 Episode 2 said:
[00:30:28.183]

(Leah Remini) LR: You know, unlike Aaron, Tayler WAS reaching out. "Please!" --to my church. "Help me. You're saying this is what you do. Help me."

She was doing the right things. And nobody cared!

[Scene: FB post
Tayler TweedWindows Phone
I know EXACTLY what I am doing. Back off or DELETE YOURSELF FROM MY #friends LIST!(Heart emoji)
#CENSORSHIP #teamTayTay #WOLFpack]

(Lauren Haggis) LH: She seemed sad and upset. And she was having all these problems. She tried to go within the normal routes and nothing was working and she wanted it to be fixed. She was posting everything that she possibly could. Because she was done.

[Scene: FB posts
Tayler Tweed
October 25, 2013
THIS is what an angry #SecondGeneration #Scientologist looks like...
Tayler Tweed
October 26, 2013
17 years of torture. I am done! #teamTayTay#WOLFpack]

LH: I was concerned about her. I was worried for her. She was really thin. She was posting pictures of her at like 95 pounds.

[00:31:27.308]

[Scene: FB posts
Tayler Tweed I did not intend to be this weight. I had a 7 month nervous breakdown, most of which happened in May/June/July/August.]

LH: Where she was having these emotional breakdowns. And she was so stressed out. She was just continuing to be offered auditing, essentially, which made her worse.

MR (in studio): Scientology does not recognize depression as a mental illness. In fact, nothing that has ANYTHING to do with psychiatry is acceptable in Scientology.

[Scene: HCO B 29 Nov 1981 DIANETICS AND SCIENTOLOGY COMPARED TO NINETEENTH CENTURY PRACTICES
Highlighted: The two nineteenth century subjects, psychology and psychiatry, do not achieve ANY good results. On the contrary, they are destructive beyond belief. They make crackpots, sexpots and vegetables when they do not outright kill.]

[Scene: Scientology promotional video]

[00:31:54.700]

MR (pointing and gesturing): ANYBODY who has ANY problem WHATSOEVER in Scientology is sent to an auditor to have Scientology counseling. Therefore ANYthing that was troubling Tayler will ONLY be addressed by Scientologists with Scientology.

LH: She had nowhere to go to get real help. So I wanted to, to try and give her support. But I was scared.

LH: I wish I hadn't. (weeping)

LR: Lauren? I hope for not one second you're going to say that you could have prevented it. Okay.

LH: I know, I know I couldn't. But I didn't do what I could, so how--.

LR: But Lauren, in the frame of mind of a Scientologist, you believed that there was nothing you can do.

You know being outside, Mike knowing what he knows now, would never have allowed his children to be in Scientology.

MR: (shakes head)

LH: No, of course.

LR: So we understand. But sitting here? Seeing your pain. I can't allow you now to blame yourself or to think you could have prevented it. Because you couldn't have. You were also in a prison at that time.

LH: Yeah. Still I didn't. I was still fearful. And so I gave her this like, "Really. Like, I'm sorry to hear you're having problems with the church. Keep your head high. Hugs and kisses kind of thing.

[Scene: FB post
Hey Tay Tay! Sorry to hear you're going through such a tough time with the Church and it's employees. Keep your head high. xoxo]

And that's the last time I talked to her.

[Screen: November 30, 2013]

[Scene: FB post from Tayler Tweed]

LH: Around the end of the year, Tayler wrote this giant paragraph saying basically "I'm sorry for being an asshole to my friends, about putting this stuff on your guy's lines.

LR: She apologized to the Scientology community for speaking out?

LH: Essentially. And then she stopped posting on that Facebook page. Made a new Facebook page where she didn't post anything against, negative against the Church, and was posting photos of herself.

[Scene: photo of Tayler Tweed]

And then she applied to like college. So I was like "Okay."

LR: Things got fixed.

LH: Things got good. So, I, I said, like okay good. Um, glad I reached out and everything's good. And then January came around, and we found out that she'd killed herself.

Shocked. I was shocked. Started asking my friends. Cuz we all know each other. We went to a really small school, so everyone knows someone. And so we started reaching out to people. We found out she shot herself. She took her own life.

We can't ever be prepared for anything like that. But I was totally taken out. Like, I thought she was doing better, how things were good for her. But no-one expected it. It was just so sad.

[Scene: photo of Tayler]

[Screen: After Tayler's death, Lauren discovered a mutual friend had been communicating with Tayler via text messaging.]

LH: From what I know now, Tayler has suffered from, had suffered from um suicidal thoughts, like she had tried to commit suicide several times throughout her life.

[Screen: In the text messages, Tayler disclosed how Scientology was trying to cure her mental health issues through vitamins and auditing.]

LH: My friend asked, "And you did all the processing and didn't feel any better." Tayler says, "Worse. Suicidal again and literally diagnosed with Bipolar 1 by naturopathic doctors. The kind that don't medicate. They had me buy supplements and I’m doing lab tests on Tuesday.]

[Scene: photo of Tayler]

She had never gotten to see a regular doctor, but she had gotten to see a homeopathic people, and tried to handle her symptoms with vitamins and those types of regimens.

LR: Yeah, like Scientology.

LH: Scientology versus medication. Because in Scientology, no it's not an answer, it's not an option. You gotta get, do your auditing and take your vitamins and exercise. Because you think psychiatry and psychology, it's, they're all crazy. It's just going over and lobotomizing people and shoving ah Ritalin and stuff down kids' throats.

MR: (nods)

LR: And ultimately you get kicked out of the church if you said you want to go see a real doctor, or I want to go see a psychoanalyst or a therapist or a psychiatrist. I want to be put on medication. They'd say, "You're out." And you would lose everything you'd ever known.

LH: Of course, that's the end of it.

LR: Yes. And you're, and you're evil to the church of Scientology and that's it. And then everybody you have ever known leaves your life.

[Scene: photo of Tayler]

[Scene: FB post
Tayler Tweed
I am 99.99% sure I should be locked in a straight-jacket and padded cell and be studied by mental health therapists.]

LH: And all of this, it gave me a window to understand what was going on with her. But to see her say things like, "I want to die before 2014." That is just awful.

[Scene: more tweets]

She actually wanted to die. She thought it was a solution to stop all her problems that she'd been having her entire life. And she was done with.

[Scene: photo of Tayler]

LR: A second round where she's like, has this new Facebook page, and she seems to be you know, starting again, this poor girl keeps trying to pick herself up and move on. Something happened and I don't know, because I don't know. I am hoping you have some answers.

LH: Scientology part of her family, her mom specifically.

[Scene: photo of Cathy Tweed, Tayler's mother]

LH: For every time that Tayler did something and spoke out, her mom would distance herself from Tayler financially. That was Tayler's only support. She was not self--. She was a musician. She was not on her own. She wasn't working. She was dependent completely on her parents.

LR: So she would withdraw her financial support?

LH: And her emotional support.

[Scene: FB post
Cathy Tweed
You may want to unfriend Tayler Tweed, my daughter. She is posting entheta comm about church members and an org. I've been trying and trying to handle. There is much more going on than this, but this is over the line for our group and she has been warned repeatedly to not be public. Her REAL upsets are not with the church, under it all. But she gets keyed in and does this. Best to distance yourself, is my thought. Please don't comm with her about this or she will only get louder about it. Thanks, Cathy]

LH: Her family was really, really important to her. She loved her mom.

[Scene: photo of Tayler with her mother. Mother in wedding dress]

LH: And she loved her family. So it was very tough on her to be going through what she was going through in her own experiences with the church and then to have to deal with the disconnection back and forth, back and forth with her family.

And what happening is she was living on friends' couches and I had heard her mom was calling her friends and saying "Tayler is in a suppressive person kind of stage.

LR: She's an anti-Scientologist--

LH: She's an enemy of the church. It's not good for her for you to house her." And this happened at the last house that she was staying at. And she just ended her life.

Which makes me feel like she didn't feel like she had anywhere more to go. She's, all roads led to this.

And Tayler's ah, funeral, Tayler's mom said, "I'm at peace with my daughter's decision." It was like a week after she killed herself. "I'm at peace with my daughter's decision."

MR: This is a microcosm of the Scientology prison of belief and mindset that makes it acceptable to destroy someone for the greater good.

We have to do what L. Ron Hubbard says to do, so we're going to disconnect from you, despite your emotional problems.

LH: Yes.

MR: That belief system is toxic. It is dangerous, and ultimately it's deathly.

[Scene: Scientology site WHAT IS DISCONNECTION]

LR: Mother told her friends to publicly disconnect from her.

[Screen: The term disconnection is defined as a self-determined decision made by an individual that he is not going to be connected to another. It is a severing of a communication line.
Scientology Website]

LR: That's what her mother said. The mother was applying Scientology.

LH: Okay, so this is December. This was a month before she passed. So it's, Christmas is coming.

LR (reading): "I'd rather die than feel this. I've felt this [bleep] feeling since 12 years old when I joined the sea org. That's right Sept 1999.]

LH: I just can't.

[Producer: I don't think we need any more, honestly.]

LH: Yeah.

LR: You have to step up. You have to take responsibility for what you're saying to people. The mental health profession should have issue with Scientology promoting itself as the cure for mental illness. It is not a cure. It isn't.

LR: You telling this story, I hope, that even one parent in Scientology or any other cult, wakes up and realizes, "I need to protect my own. I need, we need to protect our children.

LH: They do! They make things go right and to help people's lives that are so many options.

LR: I think that's so beautiful what you're doing for your friend. You're being everything Scientology isn't, by telling Tayler's story you are giving her the defense she needed. So you're doing the right thing. I didn't know her but she would have been you know somebody I would have liked to try to help you know.

LH: Of course.

LR: --going to get a damn tissue.

LH: Okay.

[Screen: Lauren works as a professional artist. After Tayler's death, she began a series of paintings to honor her friend.]

[Scene: LR and MR walk into a room]

LR: It's amazing that you did this.

LH: Thank you. I see her as she's actually, she's here.

MR: Right.

LH: But they remind me completely that she's not, and she could have been. She could have been so easily helped.

I've known five people in my life who have killed themselves. Four of them are Scientologists, including Tayler. And so who are these people and how can we do the same thing with Tayler for them?

LR: I love that.

LH: I'm doing what I could have done then, now.

MR: I understand.

LH: Yeah, Yeah.

LR: Oh my God. You're not alone.

[Screen: Tayler Tweed Debari 1986-2014]

[Scene: National Suicide Prevention Lifeline 1-800-273-TALK www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org]

[00:43:46.064]
[Screen: The Church challenges the credibility of the contributors appearing in this program. The Church also states that it does not have a policy that requires church members to disconnect from anyone.
As of the airing of this episode, the Church has not agreed to participate.]

END

[Credits]
[00:42:55.647]
EXECUTIVE PRODUCER
LEAH REMINI

EXECUTIVE PRODUCER
ELI HOLZMAN

EXECUTIVE PRODUCER
AARON SAIDMAN

EXECUTIVE PRODUCER
MYLES REIFF

CO-EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS
ADAM SALTZBERG
ERIN GAMBLE

SUPERVISING PRODUCER
EMILY WEBSTER

EXECUTIVE IN CHARGE OF PRODUCTION
JEREMY DIETRICH

PRODUCERS
ANGELA ROOT
LISTA ROSEN
GRAINNE BYRNE
TAYLOR LEVIN
MICHAEL TUBMAN

CONSULTING PRODUCER
MIKE RINDER

CAST PRODUCER
CHRIS TILLEY

STORY PRODUCER
JILL JONES

ASSOCIATE PRODUCER
?

PRODUCTION MANAGERS
MATT HARPER
JOSS SHIPP

ACCOUNTANT
SARA SENGER

CAMERA OPERATORS
ETHAN EDWARDS
JOEL [TALLBUT]

ASSISTANT CAMERA
JAY SHARRON
CHRIS WORKMAN

AUDIO SUIPERVISOR
ADAM BUTLER

AUDIO MIXERS
JEREMY HASIG
JOE HERNANDEZ

LEAD EDITORS
KEVIN HUBBARD
VINCENT CRESMAN

EDITORS
WILLIAM ALLEN
ED MARTINEZ
REGGIE SPANGLER

POST PRODUCTION SUPERVISOR
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POST PRODUCTION COORDINATOR
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POST PRODUCTION ASSISTANT
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CLEARANCE SUPERVISOR
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LEAD ASSISTANT EDITOR
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ASSISTANT EDITOR
SHEILA ?

PICTURE AND FINISHING SERVICES BY THE FARM LA

COLORIST MICHAEL BANKS

AUDIO FINISHING SERVICES BY A.G.E. POST

MIXER
ROLANDO NADAL

HAIRSTYLIST
ADDIE MARKOWITZ

MAKEUP ARTISTS
CORINA DURAN
ERIC DURAN
ANDREA MARTIN

PRODUCTION ASSISTANTS
COLLIN BUCKINGHAM
AUBREY STEVENSON
ANTHONY CANTU

ASSISTANT TO LEAH REMINI
JENNIFER "JAY" JORDAN

CAST COORDINATOR
RAFFY [GANIMIAN?]

ARCHIVAL MATERIAL

ANGRY GAY POPE
MARIE BILHEIMER
CHRISTIE GORDON
LAUREN HAGGIS
GETTY IMAGES

LEGAL COUNSEL
CAMERON STRACHER
KIMBERLEY LORD, MCKUIN FRANKEL WHITEHEAD LLP

SPECIAL THANKS
MARIE BILHEIMER
LAUREN HAGGIS

FOR A&E
EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS
ELAIN FRONTAIN BRYANT
AMY SAVITSKY
DEVON GRAHAM HAMMONDS

SUPERVISING PRODUCER
JEANA DILL

ASSOCIATE PRODUCER
GABRIELLE DEALLA PESCA

PRODUCED FOR A&E BY THE INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY CORPORATION IN ASSOCIATION WITH NO SERIOUSLY PRODUCTIONS

2017 A&E TELEVISION NETWORKS, LLC.
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED]

Aftermath Season 2 Episode 3 said:
[00:00:00.000]
[Screen: LAST WEEK:
LEAH REMINI:
SCIENTOLOGY AND THE AFTERMATH
SHARED LAUREN HAGGIS'S STORY ABOUT TAYLER TWEED]

LH (Lauren Haggis)(at home): She tried to commit suicide and she had nowhere to go to get help.

LR (Leah Remini): (nods)

[Screen: TAYLER TWEED'S MOTHER
EMAILED A&E

I am horrified that A+E and Leah Remini are exploiting for financial gain the tragic death of my daughter Tayler Tweed who died by suicide three years ago. A+E's teaser for the upcoming episode shows a picture of my beautiful daughter accompanied by a voiceover that "she had nowhere to go to get help."

[Highlighted text: "The teaser is absolutely false. Tayler was a 27-year-old adult staying in Fullerton, California at the time of her death. There were absolutely no restrictions placed on her mental health care choices. She could go wherever she pleased to seek or obtain help for her depression. In fact, she was staying with close friends who were not Scientologists who would have helped her seek care had" ]

[...]

[Visible text, not highlighted:] myself, that she took her own life. No one was in her way or placed restrictions on her care, especially in the last few months of her life when she was exclusively in a home of non-Scientologists.

In the months before her death, she received a complete medical and mental health care evaluation followed by mental health care treatment at a clinic staffed by naturopathic physicians, psychotherapists, psychiatric nurse practitioners and acupuncturists. She further had in-depth mental and medical evaluations and testing at a university clinic. Additionally, saw her own personal physician twice in the year before she died. None of these people were Scientologists.
To the best of my knowledge, the person in the trailer who is being offered as a source for your program was never a good friend of Tayler's and was in no position to know the facts. I've checked with the REAL close friends of Tayler's and they also concur this fact.]

[Screen: THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY ALSO REPLIED]

[Scene: leahreminiaftermath.com

[00:00:19.730]

Highlighted: "Remini featured a so-called "friend" Lauren Haggis to speak about Tayler even though Lauren had no relationship with Tayler Tweed for a decade. While they had been roommates for a short period at boarding school in their early teens, they were not friends after that. Now Haggis is grossly exploiting the death of someone she knew years ago to tell stories that she herself did not see nor witness. And Eli Holzman of Slauson production company disingenuously uses Lauren to narrate and give "details" based on hearsay. This disgusting act by Lauren is all in order to get publicity for herself just like her father did in using the Church to get publicity for his sagging career.

Tayler's close friends have said that after Tayler's death some very disreputable people started attempting to use it for their own personal gain. Her true friends were appalled."]

[Screen: BUT SURVIVORS CONTINUE TO COME FORWARD
EPISODE 3 STARTS NOW]
 
Last edited:

Veda

Sponsor
I get what you're saying. My point is that the Aftermath's viewing audience got a scripted, produced, directed and edited version too.

I should post my informal transcript of the relevant Aftermath segment:
I've only just quickly scanned this but it looks like Taylor Tweed was hounded to suicide by the Scientology cult.

Reminiscent of what happened to Quentin Hubbard.
 

Caroline

Patron Meritorious
I've only just quickly scanned this but it looks like Taylor Tweed was hounded to suicide by the Scientology cult.

Reminiscent of what happened to Quentin Hubbard.
Tayler's end to her life is as heartbreaking as any depression-driven suicide.

The Aftermath and subsequent discussions raise, if I may, some finer points: whether the disputed facts make the judgments being given premature; whether the conclusions the Aftermath appeared to come to were the legitimate province of a "reality" TV show; whether that "reality" TV show is in reality a propaganda vehicle, as well as redemption for Mike Rinder's victimizing people, just as the Volunteer Minister program and their well-publicized good actions are recognized as redemption for corporate Scientologists' victimizing peoples; whether Remini and Rinder could have used other undisputed narratives about suicide and Scientology's handling thereof to make their point about Scientology indoctrination.

We have to acknowledge that Rinder personally, and other insiders personally, helped to elevate Scientology to the vaunted status of "religion" in the US, and gave it tax exempt millions, to drive people like Tayler to suicide; to shudder her mother into using Scientology as opposed to something else; to silence or destroy people; and to consciously terrorize people into the "certainty" that to get their products the Scientologists they worked for, trained, directed and still protect, will do anything.
 

Caroline

Patron Meritorious
@dchoiceisalwaysrs: Gerry's answer to this part of your post:

I will just say that there is one key part that I disagree with Gerry. There are two Hubbardian methods of defining an SP and those are A) the 12 Characteristics and B) as Gerry essentially stated the Crimes/High Crimes itemized in the NOT ETHICS book but the conflated, ethics with SCN (in)-JUSTICE, book.
I do however see how in practice the Scientologist's who adhere to method B as being the predominate and senior deciding method.

About the excerpted transcript of Leah talking about evil as suppressives...I will have to get back on that but it seems 'out of place or out of context or I am just too tired to have made sense of it...although I think it might actually tie into Gerry's omission of the 12 Characteristics...NO?

Gerry Armstrong said:
“Hubbard’s Twelve Characteristics” or “Hubbard’s Twelve Attitudes,” are listed in his policy letter of September 27, 1966, “The Antisocial Personality [–] The Anti-Scientologist.”[1]

As can be seen in the writings about the Scientologists’ Suppressive Person doctrine, I have not omitted these characteristics or attitudes at all, but have addressed them and how they relate to the doctrine. See, e.g., my June 29, 2013 article “SPDL: The SP Doctrine on Trial: Opening Statement by Gerry Armstrong,” a long relevant excerpt from which follows:

Mike Rinder, like Mr. Rathbun, a long time enforcer of the Suppressive Person doctrine for the Scientologists, stated on his blog earlier this month:
Suppressive Persons are denominated as those individuals who display the majority of characteristics of the anti-social personality.
This is false. It also contains a grammatical oddity. To denominate something means to name it. So, retaining his sentence elements, what Mr. Rinder meant was, and he should have written:
Those individuals who display the majority of characteristics of the anti-social personality are denominated “Suppressive Persons.”
This is false, however, because individuals denominated “Suppressive Persons” do not display the majority of the characteristics of antisocial personalities, or even any of these characteristics. What Mr. Rinder is saying is black PR.
Steve Hall, an “Independent” Scientology leader, as Mr. Rathbun has been, wrote, for example, on his blog in 2012, in an article he called “The Sociopath of Scientology,” referring to current cult head David Miscavige:
it is easy to see in LRH’s [Mr. Hubbard’s] writings when he had encountered the sociopath or “suppressive person” because he starts to describe the personality several times.
[…]
the clearest picture of the sociopathic, antisocial or suppressive personality.
Mr. Hall also asserts that mental health professionals have validated Mr. Hubbard’s work identifying the characteristics of antisocial personalities.
Martha Stout has greatly contributed to the work that LRH began — she has identified the SP using criteria that are truly original. Sociopaths (SPs) currently number 4% in the US as I mentioned which puts social personalities at 96%.
Martha Stout is a psychologist, and author of the widely-read and often-cited book The Sociopath Next Door, and she has done no such thing. She has not identified the SP or SPs, and she has provided no criteria for identifying them. She identified the sociopath, and it could be said that she provided criteria to do so. SPs are not, however, sociopaths, and the criteria for their respective identification are unrelated.
All criteria for identifying SPs are scientological and scriptural, provided by Mr. Hubbard. They are unalterable, as is all Scientology scripture, and may not be added to.
In 2009 the Tampa Bay Times recorded Amy Scobee saying:
And the description of a suppressive person, if anyone wants to look it up on the Internet or whatever, the perfect example is the description of — the profile of a sociopath.
Ms. Scobee might really have believed this at the time, even as an Exscientologist, but it is false. The profile of a sociopath does not describe a Suppressive Person. Mr. Hubbard described, even defined, the SP very exactly in Scientology scripture.
Lawrence Wright in his 2013 Scientology book Going Clear says:
Anyone who stands in the way of a thetan’s progress is a Suppressive Person (SP). This is a key concept in Scientology. Hubbard used the term to describe a sociopath.
Mr. Hubbard did not.
It is true that, more or less, anyone who stands in the way of a Scientologist’s progress in Scientology is a Suppressive Person or SP. That’s roughly per definition. It is true that this is a key concept in Scientology.
Mr. Hubbard did not, however, use the term Suppressive Person to describe a sociopath. He used the term sociopath, or really psychopath or antisocial personality, to describe a Suppressive Person. There is a difference.
The key scriptural policy letter for understanding the Scientologists’ Suppressive Person doctrine, and in which Mr. Hubbard defines SP quite clearly is Hubbard Communication Office Policy Letter of March 1, 1965 “Suppressive Acts, Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists – the Fair Game Law.” In different contexts this policy letter is dated March 7, 1965.
He states:
A SUPPRESSIVE PERSON or GROUP is one that actively seeks to suppress or damage Scientology or a Scientologist by Suppressive Acts.
SUPPRESSIVE ACTS are acts calculated to impede or destroy Scientology or a Scientologist and which are listed at length in this policy letter.
[…]
The terms “High Crimes” and “Suppressive Acts” were used interchangeably by Mr. Hubbard in Scientology scripture and by Scientologists in Scientology.
A long list of Suppressive Acts is included in Scientology’s book Introduction to Scientology Ethics, and the same definitions are given for “SP,” “Suppressive Acts” and “PTS” as in the 1965 policy letter. The Ethics book I’m reading from is © 1998.
Due to the extreme urgency of our mission I have worked to remove some of the fundamental barriers from our progress.
The chief stumbling block, huge above all others, is the upset we have with POTENTIAL TROUBLE SOURCES and their relationship to suppressive persons or groups. [In the Ethics book, the Scientologists minusculized the “s” and the “p” of Suppressive Persons and the “g” of Groups.]
A POTENTIAL TROUBLE SOURCE is defined as a person who while active in Scientology or a preclear yet remains connected to a person or group that is a suppressive person or group.
A SUPPRESSIVE PERSON or GROUP is one that actively seeks to suppress or damage Scientology or a Scientologist by suppressive acts. [The Scientologists minusculized the “s” and “a” of Suppressive Acts.]
SUPPRESSIVE ACTS are acts calculated to impede or destroy Scientology or a Scientologist and which are listed here at length. [The original says, “which are listed at length in this policy letter.”]
On August 7, 1965 Mr. Hubbard issued a policy letter entitled “Suppressive Persons, Main Characteristics of.” “Suppressive” as a noun, or “Suppressive Person” appears 5 times in this policy letter. “SP,” or “SPs,” referring to Suppressive Persons, appear 41 times. There is no mention of antisocial personalities, psychopaths or sociopaths.
The 16 “characteristics” of SPs that Mr. Hubbard lists in this policy letter are virtually all Scientology-specific. The “characteristics” concerned, for example, Scientology policy, dissemination of Scientology, orgs, Scientology staff, auditing, the “Examiner” post, and “restimulation,” which has a particular meaning in Scientology.[2]
On September 27,1966, a year and a half after issuing the “Suppressive Acts” policy letter, Mr. Hubbard issued a policy letter entitled “The Antisocial Personality – The Anti-Scientologist.” He also issued this policy letter as a “technical bulletin.” The title is the only place in this approximately 3,000 word document where the word “Scientologist” appears. The word “Scientology” does not appear. The term “antisocial” appears 59 times. Of those, “antisocial personality” or “antisocial personalities” appear 43 times. “Characteristic” or “characteristics” appear 12 times. Mr. Hubbard also uses “attributes,” referring to “characteristics,” which is the term known throughout Scientology.
In this policy letter, Mr. Hubbard lists what he claims are the 12 characteristics of the antisocial personality, and the converse 12 characteristics of the “social personality.” Scientologists learn very early in their indoctrination about these “12 characteristics” of the antisocial personality, and these describe what SPs are.
He wrote:
Thus it is the twelve given characteristics alone which identify the anti-social personality. And these same twelve reversed are the sole criteria of the social personality if one wishes to be truthful about them.
This policy letter is what is being used to show that Mr. Hubbard described the antisocial personality. The fact of his description is being used to equate antisocial personalities with anti-scientologists, or “Suppressive Persons.” This equation is being validated or proven, Mr. Rathbun and others say, because mental health scientists’ descriptions of the antisocial personality in the 21st century are in some ways or words similar to Mr. Hubbard’s 1966 description.
In a rewrite of the SP doctrine’s history, Steve Hall has altered the sequence in which Mr. Hubbard first published his Suppressive Acts or High Crimes list and his 12 characteristics of his antisocial personality.
For example, did you know that at one point LRH wrote in an HCOPL anyone who blows from course should be declared an SP? In other words, there are the 12 characteristics of an antisocial personality plus 12 characteristics of a social personality which together was at one time, “The Test.” Then later, there came a list of high crimes which apparently if you violated them, rendered the test irrelevant.
The High Crimes list was March 1965. “The Antisocial Personality, the Anti-Scientologist” with its 12 characteristics was September 1966. These “characteristics” were never the test, or a test, for identifying or declaring someone a Suppressive Person. SPs were identified by their commission of Suppressive Acts; that is, acts that might reduce Scientology’s influence or activities or the success of some Scientologist, such as L. Ron Hubbard. When SPs were identified, then the characteristics of antisocial personalities were ascribed to them, or smeared on them.
On 17 March 1965, Mr. Hubbard issued a policy letter entitled “Fair Game Law — Organizational Suppressive Acts — The Source of the Fair Game Law,” which specifically added “blowing,” as Mr. Hall put it, to the March 1, 1965 policy letter “Suppressive Acts, Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists – The Fair Game Law.”
Students or pcs who resign or leave courses or sessions and refuse to return despite normal efforts, become suppressive of that course or organization and cease to have the rights of its protection or assistance.
So the correct sequence, using Mr. Hall’s terminology and process:
at one point LRH wrote an HCOPL that contained a list of high crimes, which if you violated them got you declared SP. Later, the same month, he wrote in an HCOPL: anyone who blows from course should be declared an SP! 18 months later there are his 12 characteristics of an antisocial personality plus 12 characteristics of a social personality which together LRH presented as “The Test.”
Mr. Hubbard had to have been lying about his 12 characteristics being the test, or any test, in Scientology, for identifying and declaring SPs. His test, as he states it in his “Antisocial Personality – Anti-Scientologist” policy letter is actually infantile and antisocial. But it was never used; and he ran all of Scientology. What was used for identifying and declaring SPs was the commission of SP Acts that might reduce his or his organization’s influence or successes.[3]
See, e.g, my Suppressive Person Declare. Notice that there are no “characteristics” or “attitudes” of SPs identified or referred to. There are only what the Scientologists/Hubbard said are my actions.

See too, e.g., Caroline’s SP Declare. No mention of her violation of Hubbard’s twelve or sixteen “characteristics;” just her actions, which, the Scientologists claim, violate Hubbard’s some of Hubbard’s “Suppressive Acts.”

The Scientologists don’t give a flying fork, or any other tableware, whether people inside or outside Scientology have these characteristics or attitudes. And the Scientologists do not define an SP with these characteristics. In fact, many of these characteristics are compelled in Scientologists; although, naturally, they deny these characteristics in themselves and project them onto SPs, the persons who “threaten” Scientology.

In essence, you cannot be a Scientologist unless you project your antisocial characteristics onto the SP class. And, in essence, SPs are persons who tell the truth about Hubbard, Scientology and Scientologists’ antisociality. This projection is, in fact, compelled by such policies as what is laid down in Scientology Policy Directive 28 of August 13, 1982, “Suppressive Act – Dealing with a Declared Suppressive Person”[4]

The clipped form of the SP doctrine asserts that people who threaten Scientology or Scientologists are “Suppressive Persons,” or “SPs;” or stated the other way around, SPs are persons who threaten Scientology or Scientologists. (That’s the definition.) For the most part, these are persons who tell the truth about Hubbard, Scientology or Scientologists that the Scientologists don’t want told. (There is a mountain of such truth or truths.) Hubbard taught, and the Scientologists teach, that SPs are what are known in wog science as antisocial personalities, or sociopaths, or psychopaths. And Hubbard taught and Scientologists teach that SPs have certain antisocial or antiscientology characteristics. These characteristics are to be both adopted, and justified, by Scientologists in relation to the SP class, and are to be projected unexcused onto the subject SPs, the person telling the uncomfortable but vital truth.
[1] HCOPL September 27, 1966 The Antisocial Personality - The Anti-Scientologist
[2] HCOPL August 7, 1965 Suppressive Persons Main Characteristics Of
[3] The Sp Doctrine On Trial: Opening Statement by Gerry Armstrong
[4] Scientology Policy Directive 28 of August 13, 1982, "Suppressive Act – Dealing with a Declared Suppressive Person"

Gerry also responded to the other matters you mentioned in your post.

Gerry Armstrong said:
1. Thanks for your kind comment about Hubbard’s Admissions. For some time now I’ve used the term “Affirmations,” but “Admissions” is certainly acceptable, and certainly interchangeable. I recently posted a response to academic Scientology collaborator Massimo Introvigne, who challenged the Affirmations’ authenticity, denigrated my honesty, and disparaging their relevance for understanding Hubbard’s thought, even if they are authentic. [1]

2. Thanks too for your comment about my integrity. You might not have known that my “integrity” was a button the Miscavige conspirators used on me to lure me into their operation. E.g., from an article I wrote last February, “Blowing the lid off the problem with Clearwater:”

What Rinder is doing with you regarding his knowledge of what he did and had done in Clearwater is very similar to the way he “handled” me in his “Loyalist Operation” conspiracy in the 1980’s. He ran OSA in the US at that time, and was responsible, under cult head Miscavige for the op. The major targets were to criminally entrap me and ultimately criminally frame me.

He and his co-conspirators, who called themselves the “Loyalists,” contacted me in 1984 with claims that they were “reformers” who wanted to “reform” their cult and wanted my help. This was a step in what is called the “Armstrong Operation,” which the Scientologists initiated as soon as I left the cult. The Armstrong Op’s goal is my obliteration.

The “Loyalists” knew, they said, that the cult’s leaders were criminal. This was no surprise, because I already knew it in spades. So did relevant agencies and officials in the US Federal Government, so did courts, and so did pretty well everyone else. The “Loyalists” claimed they wanted to end the Miscavige regime’s lies, abuses and criminality, and have Miscavige, the criminal usurper of all things wise and wonderful, criminally prosecuted. Rinder and his co-conspirators claimed to be dedicated to opposing, exposing and reforming the cult. They claimed they wanted my help because I had just prevailed in court against the criminal Scientology leadership and had integrity.[2]

E.g., from an article I wrote last December, “Suicide Note:”

In June 1984, following a lengthy trial in Los Angeles Superior Court, I had prevailed in the first lawsuit the Scientologists brought against me. Judge Paul G. Breckenridge, Jr. issued an important judgment that besides exonerating me, declared Scientology head Hubbard virtually a pathological liar, condemned the Scientologists’ practice of “culling” auditing folders, and confronted and articulated the functioning of the Suppressive Person doctrine and its criminal application, which Hubbard euphemized as “fair game.”


At the same time, Dan Sherman, an “old friend” from my Sea Org days, a writer, contacted me and said he was in touch with a group of “reformers” inside the cult, and communicated they wanted my help. He said they respected my “integrity” and what I had done, considered that Hubbard and his regime had somehow been usurped, and the usurping Scientologists were criminals. Sherman said the “reformers,” who called themselves “Loyalists,” wanted to get usurper head David Miscavige prosecuted, and intended to make the organization honest and decent.

I met with four Loyalist-connected persons perhaps a dozen times over a four month period, including twice with Rinder, whom I had known at that time for more than ten years. He was presented to me as the person in charge of the “Loyalists’” legal affairs. He pretended to be friendly and on my side against the Scientology “criminals,” and looked to me for a lawful way to take control and stop the criminal behavior. My lawyer drafted a “bare bones” complaint on behalf of the “Loyalists” to have the court put the organization into receivership.
Rinder and the rest of the claimed reform-seeking Loyalists were actually being directed by Miscavige, and were scheming and acting to set me up and destroy me. The Loyalists even took me to a lawyer Thomas Janeway who pretended to be on my side against Scientology, but was actually working for the Scientologists.[3]​

And way back in a February 1994 declaration that was filed in Scientology v. Fishman and Geetrz:

4. During the 1984 trial of the organization's case against me, Church of Scientology of California and Mary Sue Hubbard v. Gerald Armstrong, Los Angeles Superior Court no. C420153 ("Armstrong I"), Sherman told me that one of these friends, whom he called "Joey," had told him that there was an actual group inside the organization who were dedicated to reforming it because management had become suppressive. They called themselves the "Loyalists," claiming to be "loyal" to the preservation of the ideals of Scientology, "what worked." They also recognized that its leaders were criminal, crazy, dangerous, and not dedicated to those ideals but were acting to destroy them. The "Loyalists" wanted to take control in a well-planned, effective and peaceful action before some tragedy happened. They claimed to know of criminal activities and a key part of their plan was the documenting of these activities.

5. Sherman said they were 35 in number, or at least there were 35 who knew they were "Loyalists," all smart, reasonable and not fanatics. Some of them were his old friends from B-1. Such persons tended to be smart, reasonable and often were not fanatics. The people whom I knew to be, including Hubbard, the organization leaders, prided themselves on their recognition of unreasonableness as a virtue, and maintained an abiding fanaticism to justify their abuses and keep their positions of power. Sherman was smart and gave every appearance of being reasonable and unfanatical. He said the Loyalists knew he was in communication with me and wanted to talk with me but were afraid for their lives. This was not surprising to me because I knew from my own experiences that the organization had a brutal side and its leaders were dangerous, armed and desperate. Thus the first communications with the Loyalists were a few messages relayed by Sherman. They said that I had a proven record against the organization, that my integrity had been unshakable and they wanted my help.[4]
Ironically it was Judge Breckenridge, who had presided over the Scientologists’ trial against me in LA Superior Court in the spring of 1984, who provided the conspirators with the integrity button:

However, just as the plaintiffs have First Amendment rights, the defendant has a Constitutional right to an attorney of his own choosing. In legal contemplation the fact that defendant selected Mr. Flynn rather than some other lawyer cannot by itself be tortious. In determining whether the defendant unreasonably invaded Mrs. Hubbard’s privacy, the court is satisfied the invasion was slight, and the reasons and justification for defendant’s conduct manifest. Defendant was told by Scientology to get an attorney. He was declared an enemy by the Church. He believed, reasonably, that he was subject to “fair game.” The only way he could defend himself, his integrity, and his wife was to take that which was available to him and place it in a safe harbor, to wit, his lawyer’s custody. He may have indulged in overkill, in the sense that he took voluminous materials, some of which appear only marginally relevant to his defense. But he was not a lawyer and cannot be held to that precise standard of judgment. Further, at the time that he was accumulating the material, he was terrified and undergoing severe emotional turmoil. The court is satisfied that he did not unreasonably intrude upon Mrs. Hubbard’s privacy under the circumstances by in effect simply making his knowledge that of his attorneys. It is, of course, rather ironic that the person who authorized G.O. order 121669 should complain about an invasion of privacy. The practice of culling supposedly confidential “P.C. folders or files” to obtain information for purposes of intimidation and or harassment is repugnant and outrageous. The Guardian’s Office, which plaintiff headed, was no respector of anyone’s civil rights, particularly that of privacy. Plaintiff Mary Sue Hubbard’s cause of action for conversion must fail for the same reason as plaintiff Church. The documents were all together in Omar Garrison’s possession. There was no rational way the defendant could make any distinction.
[…]
Appendix
Defendant Armstrong was involved with Scientology from 1969 through 1981, a period spanning 12 years. During that time he was a dedicated and devoted member who revered the founder, L. Ron Hubbard. There was little that Defendant Armstrong would not do for Hubbard or the Organization. He gave up formal education, one-third of his life, money and anything he could give in order to further the goals of Scientology, goals he believed were based upon the truth, honesty, integrity of Hubbard and the Organization.
[…]
During 1980 Defendant Armstrong remained convinced of Hubbard’s honesty and integrity and believed that the representations he had made about himself in various publications were truthful. Defendant Armstrong was devoted to Hubbard and was convinced that any information which he discovered to be unflattering of Hubbard or contradictory to what Hubbard has said about himself, was a lie being spread by Hubbard’s enemies. Even when Defendant Armstrong located documents in Hubbard’s Archives which indicated that representations made by Hubbard and the Organization were untrue, Defendant Armstrong would find some means to “explain away” the contradictory information.
Slowly, however, throughout 1981, Defendant Armstrong began to see that Hubbard and the Organization had continuously lied about Hubbard’s past, his credentials, and his accomplishments. Defendant Armstrong believed, in good faith, that the only means by which Scientology could succeed in what Defendant Armstrong believed was its goal of creating an ethical environment on earth, and the only way Hubbard could be free of his critics, would be for Hubbard and the Organization to discontinue the lies about Hubbard’s past, his credentials, and accomplishments. Defendant Armstrong resisted any public relations piece or announcement about Hubbard which the L. Ron Hubbard Public Relations Bureau proposed for publication which was not factual. Defendant Armstrong attempted to change and make accurate the various “about the author” sections in Scientology books, and further, Defendant rewrote or critiqued several of these and other publications for the L. Ron Hubbard Public Relations Bureau and various Scientology Organizations. Defendant Armstrong believed and desired that the Scientology Organization and its leader discontinue the perpetration of the massive fraud upon the innocent followers of Scientology, and the public at large.[5]​
“Integrity,” and related compliments, can bring risibly gaslighty thoughts to mind. But thanks nevertheless.

3. Rinder has not stepped up. He has refused to step up. I have made it very clear for several years that he is being asked to step up. Throughout these years, he has run standard Scientology ignore tech on me, and kept his black PR working.

After OJ Simpson murdered his wife and Ronald Goldman, he made this public statement:

My first obligation is to my young children, who will be raised the way that Nicole and I had always planned. ... But when things have settled a bit, I will pursue as my primary goal in life the killer or killers who slaughtered Nicole and Mr. Goldman. They are out there somewhere. Whatever it takes to identify them and bring them in, I will provide somehow. [6]​

As used here, “to step up” means “to accept a challenge or responsibility for something; to rise to the occasion.” It certainly sounds as if Simpson was stepping up, right? He sounded like he was rising to the occasion, taking responsibility for bringing the murderer or murderers to justice. But Simpson was doing anything but stepping up, anything but rising to the occasion, anything but taking responsibility.

The same is true, really, with Mike Rinder. If a person really was ignorant of what Rinder had actually and specifically done -- his antisocial or criminal actions to silence or destroy real persons in the Suppressive Person religious class – it might look as if Rinder is stepping up, rising to the occasion, taking responsibility. And Rinder even has people preserving or increasing an image of him stepping up quite nicely. Like Simpson, however, despite appearances or PR, Rinder has not actually stepped up.

Just as Simpson never stepped up in the murder of Nicole and Goldman, Rinder has never stepped up in the long conspiracy and multiple programs to silence or destroy me. Simpson and Rinder have doubtlessly stepped up about other things, but in specific cases with real persons, where it really matters, they have not stepped up. Simpson could get an Emmy for making his goal the pursuit of the perpetrators, for providing whatever it takes to bring them in, for stepping up. And just as Simpson really did murder Nicole and Goldman, Rinder really did persecute me, really did conspire to destroy me.

4. Of course an apology from Rinder would be nice. Without him doing the right thing, however, without him stepping up, without him telling the truth that would assist or free his victims, without him repudiating the black PR he propagated, an apology would be heartless, and not an apology at all. I’ve explained this a number of times. [7]
[1] https://gerryarmstrong.ca/the-affirmations-what-was-l-ron-hubbard-thinking/
[2] https://gerryarmstrong.ca/blowing-the-lid-off-the-problem-with-clearwater/
[3] https://gerryarmstrong.ca/suicide-note/
[4] http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50k/legal/related/3138.php
[5] http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50k/legal/a1/283.php
[6] https://www.bustle.com/articles/152...s-killer-as-promised-he-made-a-bold-statement
[7] For example: https://gerryarmstrong.ca/?s=apology+not+needed and https://alanzosblog.com/gerry-armstrong-mike-rinder/
 
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He-man

Hero extraordinary
Tayler's end to her life is as heartbreaking as any depression-driven suicide.

The Aftermath and subsequent discussions raise, if I may, some finer points: whether the disputed facts make the judgments being given premature; whether the conclusions the Aftermath appeared to come to were the legitimate province of a "reality" TV show; whether that "reality" TV show is in reality a propaganda vehicle, as well as redemption for Mike Rinder's victimizing people, just as the Volunteer Minister program and their well-publicized good actions are recognized as redemption for corporate Scientologists' victimizing peoples; whether Remini and Rinder could have used other undisputed narratives about suicide and Scientology's handling thereof to make their point about Scientology indoctrination.

We have to acknowledge that Rinder personally, and other insiders personally, helped to elevate Scientology to the vaunted status of "religion" in the US, and gave it tax exempt millions, to drive people like Tayler to suicide; to shudder her mother into using Scientology as opposed to something else; to silence or destroy people; and to consciously terrorize people into the "certainty" that to get their products the Scientologists they worked for, trained, directed and still protect, will do anything.
What she said. :thumbsup:

And GOD DAMMIT! I'm absolutely disgusted that Alanzo's crusade(s) drives that simple fact away from the main ether of ESMB.
 

Veda

Sponsor
The Rinder quote on Suppressive Persons appears to have been from June 2013.

IMO, the "12 characteristics" were window dressing and deceptive lead-in, much as the 1951 Hubbard Chart of Human Evaluation was deceptive lead-in (or "gradient') to the idea that critical of Dianetics/Hubbard = "low toned," etc.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
DEFINITION OF FAIR GAME:

The term Fair Game is used to describe policies and practices carried out by the Church of Scientology towards people and groups it perceives as its enemies.

Founder L. Ron Hubbard established the policy in the 1950s, in response to criticism both from within and outside his organization. Individuals or groups who are "Fair Game" are judged to be a threat to the Church and, according to the policy, can be punished and harassed using any and all means possible.

In 1968, Hubbard officially canceled use of the term "Fair Game" because of negative public relations it caused, although the Church's aggressive response to criticism continued.
Applying the principles of Fair Game, Hubbard and his followers targeted many individuals as well as government officials and agencies, including a program of covert and illegal infiltration of the IRS and other U.S. government agencies during the 1970s. They also conducted private investigations, character assassination and legal action against the Church's critics in the media. The policy remains in effect and has been defended by the Church of Scientology as a core religious practice.

Starting in the 1980s, for their major branch in Los Angeles, California, the Scientology organization largely switched from using church members in harassment campaigns to hiring private investigators, including former and current Los Angeles police officers. The reason seemed to be that this gave the church a layer of protection in case embarrassing tactics were used and made public.
 

Veda

Sponsor
DEFINITION OF FAIR GAME:

The term Fair Game is used to describe policies and practices carried out by the Church of Scientology towards people and groups it perceives as its enemies.

Founder L. Ron Hubbard established the policy in the 1950s, in response to criticism both from within and outside his organization. Individuals or groups who are "Fair Game" are judged to be a threat to the Church and, according to the policy, can be punished and harassed using any and all means possible.

In 1968, Hubbard officially canceled use of the term "Fair Game" because of negative public relations it caused, although the Church's aggressive response to criticism continued.
Applying the principles of Fair Game, Hubbard and his followers targeted many individuals as well as government officials and agencies, including a program of covert and illegal infiltration of the IRS and other U.S. government agencies during the 1970s. They also conducted private investigations, character assassination and legal action against the Church's critics in the media. The policy remains in effect and has been defended by the Church of Scientology as a core religious practice.

Starting in the 1980s, for their major branch in Los Angeles, California, the Scientology organization largely switched from using church members in harassment campaigns to hiring private investigators, including former and current Los Angeles police officers. The reason seemed to be that this gave the church a layer of protection in case embarrassing tactics were used and made public.
That's a thorough explanation of Fair Game. Where did you cut and paste it from?

Sometimes, you have similarities to the old ARS troll, "truth seeker," who would begin with some factual critical information about the Scientology cult, then follow it up with malevolent mischief, including a list of actual critics/dissidents who he would claim were secretly working for the cult.

The objective was to create chaos and to demoralize.
____________​

The "Most Scientologists are Christians" thread: https://exscn.net/forum/threads/most-scientologists-are-christians.50762/
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
That's a thorough explanation of Fair Game. Where did you cut and paste it from?

Sometimes, you have similarities to the old ARS troll, "truth seeker," who would begin with some factual critical information about the Scientology cult, then follow it up with malevolent mischief, including a list of actual critics/dissidents who he would claim were secretly working for the cult.

The objective was to create chaos and to demoralize.
____________​

The "Most Scientologists are Christians" thread: https://exscn.net/forum/threads/most-scientologists-are-christians.50762/
You should be demoralized that you are part of a group that practices fair game.

Anti scientology is an hysterical, socially constructed nightmare that engages in some of the worst forms of tribalism while claiming to be morally superior to scientology.

Seeing that kind of blind hypocrisy would be demoralizing for anyone who still has a soul left.

There are many antiscientologists who no longer have a soul left.

Ask @RogerB where he got this information about me.
 

He-man

Hero extraordinary
You should be demoralized that you are part of a group that practices fair game.

Anti scientology is an hysterical, socially constructed nightmare that engages in some of the worst forms of tribalism while claiming to be morally superior to scientology.

Seeing that kind of blind hypocrisy would be demoralizing for anyone who still has a soul left.

There are many antiscientologists who no longer have a soul left.

Ask @RogerB where he got this information about me.

I don't think Veda joined a "group". What he actually did was join a forum. Learn to spot the difference. You are here too, are you also a part of a group that practices fair game?

Would you dare say I am?

Have you apologized to Karen yet?
 

Veda

Sponsor
You should be demoralized that you are part of a group that practices fair game.

Anti scientology is an hysterical, socially constructed nightmare that engages in some of the worst forms of tribalism while claiming to be morally superior to scientology.

Seeing that kind of blind hypocrisy would be demoralizing for anyone who still has a soul left.

There are many antiscientologists who no longer have a soul left.

Ask @RogerB where he got this information about me.
There is no group of 'anti-Scientologists" except in your imagination and, in any event, I am certainly not a member.

If someone sent out an e-mail that contained your social security number then, I would hope, he or she would be arrested or, at the least, sued.

If it happened, I would like to know who did it.
 

He-man

Hero extraordinary
There is no group of 'anti-Scientologists" except in your imagination and, in any event, I am certainly not a member.

If someone sent out an e-mail that contained your social security number then, I would hope, he or she would be arrested or, at the least, sued.

If it happened, I would like to know who did it.

Me too.

And who received it.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
I don't think Veda joined a "group". What he actually did was join a forum. Learn to spot the difference. You are here too, are you also a part of a group that practices fair game?

Would you dare say I am?

Have you apologized to Karen yet?
See the opening post to this thread. Think about the moral equivalence of scientology VS anti-scientology fair game.

Why aren't you curious who sent @RogerB this information?

If you actually are morally superior to scientology you would be criticizing this just as much as you are criticizing scientology fair game.

So are you morally superior to scientology, or are you just a hypocrite?
 

He-man

Hero extraordinary
See the opening post to this thread. Think about the moral equivalence of scientology VS anti-scientology fair game.

Why aren't you curious who sent @RogerB this information?

If you actually are morally superior to scientology you would be criticizing this just as much as you are criticizing scientology fair game.

So are you morally superior to scientology, or are you just a hypocrite?

I am. If you can't see that then I guess I am the only OT left on this planet and you must be truly inferior.

I kid the Alanzo.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
I am. If you can't see that then I guess I am the only OT left on this planet and you must be truly inferior.

I kid the Alanzo.
Yes, your posting style toward me doesn't really follow the advice you kept giving me a couple of weeks ago.

But I can see this behavior among anti scientologists is a concern to you, just as it is a concern to me.

I have been seeing this fair game behavior and tribalism among anti Scientologists for 4 or 5 years now. And I have been criticizing it for the very reasons you are here.

I appreciate your ability to draw a moral equivalence here.

So @RogerB: let's get to the bottom of this.

Who sent you that email?
 
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