Anybody remember the Byrnes Ethics Mission in PAC?

[Wirestripper]

Those were the days? I seem to recall James ordering the staff on rooftops to do marching drills; "Left face, right face, 'bout face".

I seem to remember him ordering Ivan the COAOLA to the Flag Command Bureau for sec checks after terrorizing Ivan's staff for days on end and Ivan blew (Ivan, why oh why didn't you take me with you? I would have gone anywhere with you).

T.O.

Wow...Ivan. I think I came in just after he blew. I heard nothing but third-party and bad things about him from all the execs....what was he like in real life?

 

[The Oracle]

Wow...Ivan. I think I came in just after he blew. I heard nothing but third-party and bad things about him from all the execs....what was he like in real life?

Once I was standing in front of him in the cafeteria and he asked me, "You went to private schools all of your life didn't you?"

I thought about the times I spent in juvenile hall in the South Bronx and said, "Yes."

It was certainly private.

He was a beautiful man.

He yelled sometimes at staff but only because he thought they could do so much more. He made them believe in themselves like he believed in them. He was very well loved.

He was a magical force of certainty.

He was to this day the only C.O. to last five years under the Int Execs.
He knew how special he was.

He refused to be torn down.

He left when the Int Execs police came dowxn on his ass.

He was not masochistic in any way.

He never would have gone for the reprograming masochism rpf.

He was so well loved by the people under him.

He was all we hoped to see in the church of scientology.

T.O.

 

[The Oracle]

It is a constant trick of the Int Execs to work up a God on people and then tear him down to remind people of how fragile life can be.

Just another trick at illusion to degrade and terrorize people.

But people get that button flat.

The arena is getting smaller and smaller for that kind
of sadism.


T.O.

 

[Bea Kiddo]

I heard Ivan was a Russian prince? Is that true?

He seemed pretty nice whenever I saw him. But I was but a squirt. A child.

I never understood why he cancelled christmas at AOLA. Remember that?


(Not trying to put him in a bad light at all, just trying to clarify some myths about him)

 

[Kookaburra]

Those were the days? I seem to recall James ordering the staff on rooftops to do marching drills; "Left face, right face, 'bout face".

I seem to recall him ordering the CO ASHO in front of the group and ripping everything his sadistic hands could paw at off the CO's clothes and having him dragged away by security guards (false imprisonment).

I seem to recall him beaching a girl for out 2d with severe public humiliation. (wrongful dismissal)

I seem to remember him ordering Ivan the COAOLA to the Flag Command Bureau for sec checks after terrorizing Ivan's staff for days on end and Ivan blew (Ivan, why oh why didn't you take me with you? I would have gone anywhere with you).

I seem to recall James being a full blown unbridled sadism case reaping revenge on PAC for earlier slights againsts him as an auditor at ASHO.

I seem to recall that by the time James Byrnes left the life had been sucked out of PAC and I was making plans myself to leave.

I seem to recall DM and Ray Mithoff sneaking around in the Orgs at night after hours DM in all of those medals he awarded himself and Ray running behind him as faithful DM ser facer shaking his head and emitting dirty looks at anyone who offended DM in some way. He was like DM's presonal ser fac service. Offering up the dirty looks DM himself could not afford to deliver himself for reasons of out PR.

Those were the days? Enid Byrnes finally got out of there by dying. Those were the days that made me realize I was in the wrong place at the wrong time and I did not belong in that group. Those were the days that I realized that just because I wasn't being harmed attacked or suppressed, I was permitting it to happen to others by standing there in my uniform showing my support for it all. I was unwittingly a suppressor. Those were the days I seperated out from the Sea Org.

Those were the days I went exterior to the entire madness and realized I was in a looney bin. The pretense became too illogical. Marching as militia while watching the sun rise over Southern California? Did James even have a drivers license? Nobody could have awarded DM that ten pounds of medal on his chest uniform but himself, and where was he buying this shit? These people were obviously not living in present time sunny California in the United States of America!

Those were the days when impossibility roared it's beautiful head and whispered in my ear, "If you can pretend this, you can pretend anything. Everything is possible."

And my process with the Sea Org reached E.P..

And I became a "Sea Org release."

T.O.

I remember James' mission. I remember him taking CO ASHO off post in a most degrading manner. I had a similar reaction. I stood there privately thinking how horrible it was. I too became a "Sea Org release" very shortly after that mission.

 

[TheSneakster]

not important

 

[grundy]

I heard Ivan was a Russian prince? Is that true?

He seemed pretty nice whenever I saw him. But I was but a squirt. A child.

I never understood why he cancelled christmas at AOLA. Remember that?


(Not trying to put him in a bad light at all, just trying to clarify some myths about him)

Actually Ivan was a Russian Prince of some sort.

I remember the drills on the roof .. I was the one that called cadence because my voice could be heard over anything.

When he was handling groups or people in front of groups he was a bit maniacal .. but on a personal level he was okay.

 

[The Oracle]

I heard Ivan was a Russian prince? Is that true?

He seemed pretty nice whenever I saw him. But I was but a squirt. A child.

I never understood why he cancelled christmas at AOLA. Remember that?


(Not trying to put him in a bad light at all, just trying to clarify some myths about him)

He cancelled Christmas? What a laugh! That was just like him to cancel a national holiday to spare people the wallet attacks!

I heard that rumor about him being a prince as well, I don't know how true it was.

When he left he took the FBO with him. She looked like a little pincess too.

Kind of funny.

T.O.

 

[The Oracle]

Wow...Ivan. I think I came in just after he blew. I heard nothing but third-party and bad things about him from all the execs....what was he like in real life?

The internet has been up and running for a few decades and there have been VOLUMES of reports and stories.

All I can do is point out that he was a Commanding Officer in the Church for more than five years and I have not seen his name mentioned in one single negative post.

T.O.

 

[The Oracle]

Actually Ivan was a Russian Prince of some sort.

I remember the drills on the roof .. I was the one that called cadence because my voice could be heard over anything.

When he was handling groups or people in front of groups he was a bit maniacal .. but on a personal level he was okay.

There is a lot of truth in that. In a one on one situation he had extremely high ARC. He was frankly quite adorable. Even sexy. I think he was given very specific mission orders about that to do. I know in one Org the CO rec'd special orders to pick one staff member, and to terrorize the staff by bringing them up in front of everyone and doing a simlar degrade and sending them to the rpf. This was an order that came from the other side of the continent.

They would play on staff's fears and emotions. When James was sent to remove Ron Norton from the FSO he was given specific orders to do it all behind closed doors and just announce that he was gone because they didn't know if the staff would revolt.

Ron was taken out in the middle of the night.

The sadism and manipilation was really in high gear.

T.O.

 

[grundy]

The internet has been up and running for a few decades and there have been VOLUMES of reports and stories.

All I can do is point out that he was a Commanding Officer in the Church for more than five years and I have not seen his name mentioned in one single negative post.

T.O.

My sister highly respected Ivan. But I didnt get treated particularly well by him.

 

[Wirestripper]

He cancelled Christmas? What a laugh! That was just like him to cancel a national holiday to spare people the wallet attacks!

I heard that rumor about him being a prince as well, I don't know how true it was.

When he left he took the FBO with him. She looked like a little pincess too.

Kind of funny.

T.O.

OMFG...PLEASE tell me about the the FBO AOLA he took with him.....I..need to know.

 

[Dulloldfart]

OMFG...PLEASE tell me about the the FBO AOLA he took with him.....I..need to know.

Al(l)ison Andrus, who I vaguely recall was called Edwards before (daughter of Don Edwards?) but could be wrong.

Paul

 

[Lulu Belle]

Al(l)ison Andrus, who I vaguely recall was called Edwards before (daughter of Don Edwards?) but could be wrong.

Paul

Yes, it was Alison Andrus. She is the daughter of Don (I think that was his name) Edwards. Also the sister of Tim Edwards, AOLA reg.

Alison and Tim were both posted in RTC until the late 80s. At that time RTC had a "reorg" and Tim and Alison both wound up in PAC. Alison at that time was married to Brian Andrus. Brian was the one who was considered out qual'd for RTC because he was in doubt about being in the SO. So, she wound up being posted in PAC as the FBO AOLA.

Alison and Ivan hit it off right off the bat. It was kind of obvious they liked each other a little too much. They both were pulled in for sec checks but it doesn't seem like anything actually came up initially, because they both stayed on post.

At some point, however, something flapped. I don't remember what it was right now, but there was some inference of out-2D. There was an attempt to RPF Alison, but the Cont Finance Dir in PAC said "No way. Her and Ivan are equally responsible. If you RPF her, you need to RPF him, too."

AOLA was a very successful org and Ivan was one of the most successful execs in the SO, and there was no way they were taking him off post at that point. So they decided to trade Alison to CC Int instead as part of a 3 way switch to get an FBO. Alison became a Basic Course sup there.

From what I recall, her senior was the Chief Off, Debbie Obolensky. Ivan's wife.

It seemed like there was no connection after that between Ivan and Alison. But a few months later, Ivan was ordered to int for some kind of handling. The day before he was supposed to go up, he and Alison blew together.

My feelings about Ivan (who I worked for) are very similar to The Oracle's. It was an incredible loss for me and for AOLA when he left.

 

[The Oracle]

I had a loss when he left.

I was thinking, geeeze, why didn't he take me?

I was pissed.

Were you pissed that he didn't take you?

I bet he could have taken the whole org with him.

At least 20 or 30 people. I used to make special trips into AOLA just to to refresh myself in his space.

See, that's why the Int Execs shuffle people around and tear them down when they rise up too high.

They avert possible unity that way.

They ensure they hold the power that way.

The people on top are totally into war games and sadism.

Now it comes around though the age old saying, "Live by the sword, die by the sword."

And the noisy battlefield starts to look indeed like "Battlefield Earth".

People never got it that that book was a fortelling of events to come to pass in the Church.

T.O.

 

[The Oracle]

In fact, anyone with a few extra hours to spend could start a thread called "WHY THE SEA ORG IS A SUPPRESSIVE GROUP".

Take out the ethics book and find the attributes of the anti social personality.

List them one by one and reference how the Sea Org is manifesting this behavior.

I haven't had the time myself.

But I've seen it one for one.

May blow some charge for a lot of people.

T.O.

 

[Wirestripper]

Tim's sister was FBO? Wild! He never talked about it when I was there....

 

[Lulu Belle]

Tim's sister was FBO? Wild! He never talked about it when I was there....

Yeah, she was.

After Alison blew with Ivan, Tim basically stopped talking about her. He was asked a lot about her and it was a big sore spot with him.

I think he felt that people thought that he was somehow involved with her leaving, when he really didn't know any more than anyone else about what was going on.

He also talked about how hard it was on his father. His mother had died when the kids were younger, and having Alison leave like that was like "losing his mother all over again".

 

[grundy]

Well. I knew Tim, but I never knew this.

We did a tour in Philly once. We went to a vietnemese resteraut where they had live everything.

HE had to bring up live monkeys in some caribbien countries.

 

[Gottabrain]

I remember Enid. She helped me learn the ropes when I first came to AOLA. She used to pull me aside, sometimes for things I did wrong, sometimes to just give me advice. She could be awfully tough sometimes and I was afraid of her when I was new to AOLA and younger (18-23), but I always knew I could sit with her and discuss any problem I had and she would listen and had the integrity not to repeat anything in any negative way to anyone. How sad she died of cancer.

She used to freak out on Halloween, hated it more than anything. Her Jo'Burg upbringing. We had an auditor at AOLA who was later the HAS (can't recall his name) who used to dress up as a woman on Halloween, mostly to annoy Enid.

I never had any troubles with James Byrne at all, but I wasn't there for that mission, either - long gone by then. I adored watching James & Enid together. Wasn't James also from So. Africa?