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ARC and KRC

Leland

Crusader
Also want to add to the above...and the only reason I came to this Bulletin Board in the first place...is:

I believe the Cult has made a mistake.....and I wanted to alert others to that fact.

Yes...they have found a way to somewhat wake up a spiritual being...BUT

ONLY PART OF A SPIRITUAL BEING......and the Cult is doing vast damage, IMO, to the Spirituality of Earth....by what they are doing.

The Cult of Scientology and what they are doing is in ERROR...and a VAST mistake....and is causing harm.

I believe the entire OT 3 thru OT 8 is in error....and no one should do it......to say the least..

I believe the Cult of Scien ......HAS NOT truly found an "entire" spiritual being......

BUT....they think they have.

But their technology is incomplete....and extremely harmful....and CAUSES insanity....
 
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Leland

Crusader
To me.....that there is a sense of "awakening" if you want to call it that.....is why, not matter how bad the other stuff is....that people stick with the cult.

The structure and rules of the Cult...do hinder anyone from finding out just how bad the other stuff is....There is no doubt about that....

But....to me....and surely others here....Let's get real. People stick it out in the Cult for DECADES and DECADES and don't leave.....

Some spend tens of thousands...some 100s of thousands....and still don't leave....

Whales give MILLIONs and are still in.

There are "deeper" reasons IMO, that this goes on.

I am not trying to be cryptic or anything.....and it is difficult, because there is no language to speak about some of the stuff.....(or it is "loaded" language)

But I don't think some here are saying what needs to be said or could be said...about, how the Cult can inflict harm on anyone that leaves....

This is why I despise people like Rinder and Rathbun...and Debbie Cook (I actually feel sorry for her...)...and others.....because they know what the fuck I'm talking about, (I have assumed) and are not addressing the real issues.
 
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MrNobody

Who needs merits?
To me.....that there is a sense of "awakening" if you want to call it that.....is why, not matter how bad the other stuff is....that people stick with the cult.

The structure and rules of the Cult...do hinder anyone from finding out just how bad the other stuff is....There is no doubt about that....

But....to me....and surely others here....Let's get real. People stick it out in the Cult for DECADES and DECADES and don't leave.....

Some spend tens of thousands...some 100s of thousands....and still don't leave....

Whales give MILLIONs and are still in.

There are "deeper" reasons IMO, that this goes on.

I am not trying to be cryptic or anything.....and it is difficult, because there is no language to speak about some of the stuff.....(or it is "loaded" language)

But I don't think some here are saying what needs to be said or could be said...about, how the Cult can inflict harm on anyone that leaves....

This is why I despise people like Rinder and Rathbun...and Debbie Cook...and others.....because they know what the fuck I'm talking about, (I have assumed) and are not addressing the real issues.
(my bold)

Hey Leland,

I think you've mentioned two important keywords: Rules and structure.

Rules and structure are what makes one feel at home, safe and secure. Many people are scared by chaos.

I found that out when I became the head of several assembly lines in a factory: Initially, I just wanted to optimize workflow, so I implemented a bit of structure and some easily comprehensible and acceptable rules for everyone.

After that, I observed that people became happier, felt more at home in their team and found their work less hard. Less people called in sick, and less people were late for work. The team members became happier and more friendly towards each other. They started to share private activities with each other.

What once was the most hated and despised job in that factory, became something people loved to do and wanted to do well.

One team has always been called "the dirty dozen", but now people felt honored to become part of that team.

Also: I never had to insist on people following my rules and adhering to my structure - I never ever had to think about implementing some form of punishment, my rules just made sense and people saw the benefits of following them.

Rules and structures can be very useful and beneficial, when it's about dealing with groups of people - but then, as Hubbard has so thoroughly demonstrated, they can also be used to make peoples lives a living hell.

Sorry for the derail, guys. :)
 

JustSheila

Crusader
I agree, MB.

They aren't even triangles. ARC is "how to fool people into liking you." The affinity bit is just stupid and way off base. Reality as agreement? Eh. Stupid. Communication doesn't make people like you, either, but you can bamboozle them and fool them for a while. ARC has nothing to do with understanding, either. And the communication bit - the whole ARC triangle thing is so off that auditors constantly have to fly ruds to repair the upsets people have when it doesn't work. Crikey, how rare is it to even have a session without ruds flown?

Genuine caring and compassion and demonstrating this works a lot better. People with shared cultural and other values also tend to get along well, too.

KRC is the path to an early ulcer. To believe that you can control everything as long as you know about it and take responsibility? Delusional. It can make anyone neurotic. Obviously, there are other people in their world doing their own thing that may or may not correspond with your thing, natural disasters, and things beyond our comprehension as well.

ARC and KRC are stupid.
 

Anonycat

Crusader
(my bold)

Hey Leland,

I think you've mentioned two important keywords: Rules and structure.

Rules and structure are what makes one feel at home, safe and secure. Many people are scared by chaos.

I found that out when I became the head of several assembly lines in a factory: Initially, I just wanted to optimize workflow, so I implemented a bit of structure and some easily comprehensible and acceptable rules for everyone.

After that, I observed that people became happier, felt more at home in their team and found their work less hard. Less people called in sick, and less people were late for work. The team members became happier and more friendly towards each other. They started to share private activities with each other.

What once was the most hated and despised job in that factory, became something people loved to do and wanted to do well.

One team has always been called "the dirty dozen", but now people felt honored to become part of that team.

Also: I never had to insist on people following my rules and adhering to my structure - I never ever had to think about implementing some form of punishment, my rules just made sense and people saw the benefits of following them.

Rules and structures can be very useful and beneficial, when it's about dealing with groups of people - but then, as Hubbard has so thoroughly demonstrated, they can also be used to make peoples lives a living hell.

Sorry for the derail, guys. :)

I have also written what I call Policy and Procedure for the workplace. I hate it when that shit hasn't been done! And yes, then everyone knows the rules and what's expected. No one is wrong, or making mistakes, because they have been provided with the full job description. I can see how this can be used in bad ways, too, like in the cult.
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
(from the too weird a coincidence to not mention in this thread, sorry but this came to mind)

Weird Factoid: Volney Matheson was a movie projectionist

There was a device he invented called an ARC X

It was a little box with a light detector that would close a switch to ring a bell elswhere (like where the projectionist was having a smoke, cause you never smoked around 35mm nitrate films...) if the ARC of the carbon arc projection machines stopped working, the little box was called an ARC X


I now return control of this topic back to you, no comments needed..
 

mockingbird

Silver Meritorious Patron
Um, I want to add that going back to Veda's idea from Crowley - someone a long time ago figured out thought ( ideas and beliefs ) and emotions and behavior are all linked in the mind and by influencing any you can by repetition influence the other two . What you call them shows how much you are exposing that you are manipulating a person and remaking them . Crowley hid it I believe . The sum of our ideas and feelings and behavior is in fact our identity . It can be called attitude in psychology or any name in earlier practices but to us it is identity . If Hubbard said with my identity control ( ARC or understanding ) you can control others even down to memories and beliefs he would get very few participants . If he said with the other side of identity control ( KRC) you will sacrifice your identity to me , if any was not taken by the first method (ARC ) in your indoctrination then he would get even fewer . His "understanding" is really one understanding - complete submission to him and replacing your identity with a mental pseudo clone in slavery until death . You are meant to make others submit via ARC and then submit yourself as wel via KRC . That is hard to sell without lying about it . Any takers ?
 

mockingbird

Silver Meritorious Patron
The following is an excerpt from an email to Arnie Lerma on why some exes have a harder time letting go of the concepts and practices in Scientology despite getting hard evidence Hubbard lied and it is a fraud . This refers to some concepts discussed in this thread .

Hubbard relied on misdirection and persistent confusion . The success Jon Atack has in showing the hypnotic commands is something I have been looking at . What you wrote to me about the subconscious can be relevant here .In my mind Hubbard used rhetorical methods where he had paces - readily agreeable statements . Then he used ethos ( claims of authority ) , pathos ( emotional appeals ) and logos ( claims of logical methodology or arguments ) and sublime writing ( writing intended to direct emotional states )to get rapport , lower his victim's guard and distract them from his using other statements . The other statements -OS fill a role and fit a pattern as well .

The OS include contradictions to induce confusion for both hypnotic control and to obfuscate the subject matter in the commands in the future . Obviously loaded language - LL fills a major role in this . LL uses logos , ethos and pathos to restructure reality subtly . We believe concepts in terms we use if we are not aware they are or could be false . The ethos , logos and pathos hide the contradiction and repetition too . With much repetition the terms and phrases and slogans replace thought and direct it in turn . Without those things that hide Hubbard's commands the commands are clear as contradictory IF - and this is vital - they are presented in combination with the ones that directly contradict each other .


This is worth giving more clarification . Bear with me as I am only giving exact relevant details . The other parts induce confusion and that prompts accepting the commands to misdirect attention off the confusion temporarily with lies . That pattern used via repetition conditions habitual increasing submission . The confusions are buried in the subconscious . The commands seem to clarify confusion as they give direction but in truth the mind is only being distracted by trances focusing attention off the confusion . That is sublime writing using persuasion to guide attention and thereby thought , behavior and emotion and focus attention on and off mental phenomena . And to define the phenomena to fool the victim .


So what Jon Atack often does in his articles is strip off the layers of rhetorical cloaking and put the commands out directly with their immediate contradictory corresponding counterparts . In other words other statements that say clearly ideas that cannot be held logically at the same time on the same topic .
These ideas in the subconscious put out can inspire explosive cognitive dissonance that as Jon Atack has said "reaches critical mass" and then explodes into the confusion coming out .


Now what I am saying next is even more important - with some victims showing the contradictory doctrine does not open the door to seeing the commands as commands or as odd statements or immoral or even more importantly as contradictory . This occurs because in a hypnotic model the trance is being held in place by something . It can be other commands , other rhetorical content that has not been addressed . Or in cognitive dissonance theory it can be that the ego ( or identity ) of the victim is threatened too much by rejecting Hubbard and his tech as their identity and pride is wrapped up and bonded so much with the value of Hubbard and his tech via seeing their identity as a person rise or fall with Scientology's . They cannot see any independent identity as sustainable . They have been made "worthless" in their opinion if Scientology is debunked .So it cannot be fathomed . Ala Tommy Davis remarks .


In the simplest terms Scientology uses a confusion to get cooperation - both are slight in the beginning . A lie misdirects attention off the confusion . This brings relief - even slight and always temporary . Then another confusion is made to bait the victim more and another misdirection to relieve the confusion via a lie . That these require greater cooperation and increasing submission to direction of action and belief is hidden intentionally . The confusions all remain hidden and the reliefs from them are the "proof" and "wins" and "gains" the deluded victim hangs onto .


If the truth of the contradictions in the doctrine is very clearly exposed and the truth about Hubbard's character and the activities of his followers and a victim STILL is unwilling to even consider the tech as fraudulent or unworkable their is theoretically another issue . It goes back to the indoctrination . The victim sees the relief from removing confusion as a real benefit . It feels genuine . Deep down . That is because the relief actually felt good and emotion generated over and over thousands of times in association with something can make the two seem linked in cause and effect . And not subject to contemplation . The process of Scientology creating confusion then misdirecting attention off it to seem to resolve it with temporary suggested relief is done with lies . The process is done over and over thousands and thousands of times and hides the confusions , how they are truly "relieved" and most importantly the process itself . The misdirection is lies but feels true . That is the fundamental trance holder .


So to be even more precise - find the confusions that Scientology SEEMED to resolve for a particular victim . Have the person talk in detail about what was confusing . And when I use the term confusions they can be ideas , theories , relationships , social or sexual identity , or emotions or really anything someone is uncertain , uncomfortable or overwhelmed concerning . They can be quite minor , infinitesimal really or quite enormous or anywhere in between . Size is not entirely relevant though it may correspond to emotional impact for a victim so be aware of this . Relatively small confusions may hold tremendous significance as they are put in always in a unique sequence and the delusions that hold them take or set along with them uniquely as well . So when a particular delusion is examined that carried great influence - regardless of content - the lifting of the influence is the source of the freed emotional content and corresponding reaction and freed critical and independent thinking . The freed thinking can be relative to how much of the delusional state ( or trance or trance states in a hypnotic model ) was held in by a particular "solution" to a confusion .


So when a command served to hold in much of the delusion ( or trance )it will release much of the mind to realize this and reevaluate the cult experience . Getting enough of the delusion or false beliefs examined - and not just used to trigger delusional interpretations of the events - to free up the mind to a point of doubting on a conscious level is a critical entry point for recovery to be possible .
By getting to that point actual examination of contradictory doctrine and hidden commands with undesirable content can be pursued . For some examining the cult's behavior can inspire some independence . But getting to examine Hubbard's character often helps far more to cast doubt on his authority and even more importantly his doctrine .


The confusion on the doctrine is often the most resistant to consideration as the victim cannot distinguish the "relief" and lies from genuine benefit . Plainly they think that Hubbard despite poor character and fraudulent research and being a person with narcissistic and sociopathic character and a pathological liar and prolific plagiarist and having dozens of other severe mental health issues may have done something . They think he may have from theft or honest intent or accidentally combining ideas of others or somehow that is unknown achieved a true beneficial practice .
They have the hardest road - the exact hidden confusions to free them are so personal and often so well hidden to them great compassion , generosity and persistence may be required as they may lash out at any who push them toward the hidden confusions . The confusions are unpleasant to face to put it mildly . If they were not there would have been little reason to cooperate with the path away from them . The victim would not change things or try to avoid things that have no meaning for them .


There is more confusion to face when the lies are seen as such . It is a trap that grows to a no one situation . Face the truth and have the lies unravel and face the lies or refuse to face them ( and in the victim's defense they do not usually have a clear idea exactly what happened or what to look at ) and have no independence from a desperate - even frantic - need for Hubbard and his doctrine to be absolutely right always .
Facing the lies is no picnic either . When your identity , religious beliefs , philosophy and framing of and even definition of reality and yourself and everyone else is utterly annihilated all at one rapidly that itself is completely overwhelming and usually quite difficult.
Due to the extreme totalist ( controlling every aspect of thought , emotion , behavior , belief and identity ) nature of Scientology and extreme use of lies over and over to "relieve" confusions virtually every fundamental aspect of reality is thrown into question and doubted as part of fully facing the fraudulent nature for the most heavily indoctrinated and fanatical followers .


It is for some difficult but for others unbearable and so denied and dissociated from as an automatic defense of identity and remaining sanity and may trigger other psychological defense mechanisms . This defense is in fact an error but understandable . Being driven to the brink of a breakdown is undesirable so a mind will resist it as it seems better and in many circumstances avoiding it is a good thing to do . Just not this time , it is preserving delusion , and not just an eccentricity or neurosis . If the mind is this far gone it is severely compromised .Sorry . Hope this is of some use .
 
I could do a more thorough analysis involving ethos , logos and pathos as well as sublime writing and embedded commands ( many of which in KSW are Hitler doctrine slightly altered ) but this brief one is a sufficient start to me for making my point . KSW is purely meant to covertly influence and be used for that - and do not forget is meant to be indoctrinated with Hubbard's authoritarian ( some call it hypnotic ) "study tech " .

But back to my main point , the pattern in Scientology is incredibly - almost idiotically simple -confuse a person by some method even slightly then offer a "stable datum" for that confusion that is accepted . Here is the important part I just now got this exactly - the stable data is ALWAYS meant to be two things a lie and a method to induce further confusion that leads to accepting another stable datum , over and over . That is the con . The details vary and their effects and deserve tremendous study and dissection but the formula has only a few basic parts always . Confuse , offer solution to confusion give "solution" it is a lie designed to bring more confusion immediately or later . Sometimes their is a delay or apparent relief for a time before the confusion is back . Why ? Because if it does not add up the truth was not part of the equation - it is all lies . Always was always will be . No truth ever , no workable anything , no miracles . One formula one conman one con .

This is why Hubbard wanted people to not be given one thing to solve a problem - he wanted the person baited then drawn in forever .

That is all Scientology is a big con made bit by bit from small ones built up into a total gradual surrender of identity and self .The ironic thing is that the surrender comes for one purpose - to relieve the confusion by submitting to Hubbard's will to escape the confusion .

Have you ever been with someone , and you are thoroughly confused in a situation and they tell you to do something to change or end the situation and you do not understand how it will help or why but you just do it to get away from the unpleasant situation and the unpleasant feeling that trying to figure it out brings ? You not just follow instructions but also surrender judgment to avoid the confusion .

It seems logical - I cannot figure it out but this guy seems to know what to do so let us get this over with . It can work out and you may figure things out by observation in more simple and honest relationships and activities but that is not the case here . Not one bit . Hubbard is the absolute last person you should trust EVER . With anything . It is moronically simple and clear once you see it -confuse then lie , confuse then lie - have the lie set up further cooperation and confusion which leads to surrender and enslaving . Then they die , game over .But we can end the game now that we know it . I hope this is not confusing .:coolwink:

"Why ? Because if it does not add up the truth was not part of the equation - it is all lies . Always was always will be . No truth ever , no workable anything , no miracles . One formula one conman one con" This was such a good mousetrap that even old Hub fell for it in the end and died half crazy chasing body thetans and being injected Vistaril in his buttocks alone in his blue bird hole. While the others went gambling to Lake Tahoe and left him to die when he had become a nuisance for the settlement with the IRS. Since the Cult of Greed is built on the ADN of its founder, it will die the same way.
"Hubbard is the absolute last person you should trust EVER" I agree on that, I realised it when I thought of loyal friends he had like Parsons, Don Purcell, Ken Urquarth, Joe Van Staden, David Mayo, Hana Whitfield or his wife Marie Sue who went to prison to protect him and never heard from him again. He was friend to no one, he was not to be trusted. He abused all his wives, friends and children in different ways.
 

Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
I guess the ARC and KRC triangles are supposed to be big deals in Scientology. They're in that ugly logo with the funny S hooking two triangles together, and I believe I've read posts by people who have abandoned a lot of Scientology, still advancing these two concepts as significant insights.

What's so great about these things? Isn't the theory supposed to be that the three things in each triangle support each other? So if you notice you're short on Affinity with somebody, you should try to Communicate with them over some shared Reality; and this will automatically bring up your Affinity. If that's it, okay; at first sight it seems as though it's not obvious, but then it also seems as though it might indeed work. So, a real insight.

But not so fast. There's an easy way to cheat that kind of triangle. You can make an ABC triangle for any three things that are kind of related but vaguely defined. Just talk about A in such a way that what it means, in concrete terms, is some B and some C. Do similarly with B and C: they're vague, and insofar as they each have any concrete meaning, it necessarily involves the other two things in the triangle to some degree. Then you've got this awesomely self-supporting triangle, but the mutual support among the three concepts is not really causal at all. It's just overlapping definition — a game with words.

Is it logically possible in principle to have, say, Communication and Reality but no Affinity? If this is not possible, then the ARC triangle is just a word game. If it is possible in principle, then the ARC triangle is at least not meaningless.

The further question would then be, does it ever actually happen in practice, that one can have Communication and Reality without Affinity? If this does happen in practice, then the ARC triangle is wrong. Only if having two of the three but not the third could happen in principle, but turns out never to happen in practice, does the ARC concept tell you anything true that you didn't already know.
 

mockingbird

Silver Meritorious Patron
Student of Trinity the triangles are an old idea repackaged - if you control thought , emotion and behavior you control a person .

The triangle is an old symbol in mystic practices for power . I see the two as being taken possibly from Crowley as a formula - by relabeling ARC which is in truth identity as understanding Hubbard makes it look like one builds a relationship based on love and compassion and wisdom and equality with his ARC . In truth he is making slaves . Love and compassion are negated and wisdom is replaced with delusional blind certainty as a fanatic who becomes more deluded and delusional but has one belief remain clear and grow : reverence for Hubbard that grows into absolute unquestioning devotion . The two triangles are the means to enslave a cultist and whoever they can manipulate . The triangles claim to make understanding - in fact they make confusion and bewilderment in a haze of complete submission to Hubbard . Hubbard often called things their exact opposite to fool victims . He had a bridge to total freedom that leads to total slavery and many , many more examples . His two triangles are the formula for SLAVERY that is the S . His symbol marks his slaves as his property .
 

Leland

Crusader
I guess I should mention the Jewish "Star of David" ....as looking like 2 triangles also.

And that the Cult's 2 triangles are similar...but "broken"

Hub Tub wrote a book published in 1948 titled "Slaves of Sleep."

In this book.....the protagonist is trying to get/find/steal "Solomon's Ring" or stone.....(possible a large emerald with the Star of David engraved on it.) It is suppose to have magical powers...and a great deal of the book is about this symbol.

It is also about people actually being asleep....and living in "2 different worlds" and the need to wake them up...and their being controlled by these "evil" and "stupid" beings from ancient Middle Eastern folk lore called "Efrits" ....which are themselves actual slaves and an imagined type of being.......and also about the masters of the Efrits.........and about "SP" type people....trying to keep the protagonist "down."
 
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(from the too weird a coincidence to not mention in this thread, sorry but this came to mind)

Weird Factoid: Volney Matheson was a movie projectionist

There was a device he invented called an ARC X

It was a little box with a light detector that would close a switch to ring a bell elswhere (like where the projectionist was having a smoke, cause you never smoked around 35mm nitrate films...) if the ARC of the carbon arc projection machines stopped working, the little box was called an ARC X


I now return control of this topic back to you, no comments needed..

Great comment! so funny!
 
Student of Trinity the triangles are an old idea repackaged - if you control thought , emotion and behavior you control a person .

The triangle is an old symbol in mystic practices for power . I see the two as being taken possibly from Crowley as a formula - by relabeling ARC which is in truth identity as understanding Hubbard makes it look like one builds a relationship based on love and compassion and wisdom and equality with his ARC . In truth he is making slaves . Love and compassion are negated and wisdom is replaced with delusional blind certainty as a fanatic who becomes more deluded and delusional but has one belief remain clear and grow : reverence for Hubbard that grows into absolute unquestioning devotion . The two triangles are the means to enslave a cultist and whoever they can manipulate . The triangles claim to make understanding - in fact they make confusion and bewilderment in a haze of complete submission to Hubbard . Hubbard often called things their exact opposite to fool victims . He had a bridge to total freedom that leads to total slavery and many , many more examples . His two triangles are the formula for SLAVERY that is the S . His symbol marks his slaves as his property .

"In truth he is making slaves . Love and compassion are negated and wisdom is replaced with delusional blind certainty as a fanatic who becomes more deluded and delusional". "He had a bridge to total freedom that leads to total slavery." Unfortunately I think you are right. It would be interesting to study the Crowley connexion, I started reading the book of the law a couple of years ago but didn't get through for lack of time. Reading Crowley is one of my next projects, I'll see what resemblances I can find. It would be interesting to read Nibs book, the one Jamie was talking about.

Nibs said: "The book Alice in Wonderland (which of course some of the TRs are based on) and the companion book Alice Through the Looking Glass, were written by a master adept at the Magick. And he was, as they all are, unknown and secret. He was also a secret member of the Order of the Golden Dawn of which Aleister Crowley, the English black magician was involved in. And of course it was purposely used and put there by Dad because of its Magick association. And Dad used it secretly in the Scientology training to gain a higher degree of control over staff, students and preclears for himself personally."

"The same individual that transmitted the various Magick tech to Adolf Hitler as a young man also transmitted them to Dad. And like Dad, Hitler, when he came to power, promptly had his teachers and the occult field in general wiped out" L Ron Hubbard Jr - 1984 tape transcript
TRANSCRIPT OF TAPE #1 OF JUNE 28, 1984 - RON DE WOLF (Found at Lermanet)
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
"In truth he is making slaves . Love and compassion are negated and wisdom is replaced with delusional blind certainty as a fanatic who becomes more deluded and delusional". "He had a bridge to total freedom that leads to total slavery." Unfortunately I think you are right. It would be interesting to study the Crowley connexion, I started reading the book of the law a couple of years ago but didn't get through for lack of time. Reading Crowley is one of my next projects, I'll see what resemblances I can find. It would be interesting to read Nibs book, the one Jamie was talking about.

Nibs said: "The book Alice in Wonderland (which of course some of the TRs are based on) and the companion book Alice Through the Looking Glass, were written by a master adept at the Magick. And he was, as they all are, unknown and secret. He was also a secret member of the Order of the Golden Dawn of which Aleister Crowley, the English black magician was involved in. And of course it was purposely used and put there by Dad because of its Magick association. And Dad used it secretly in the Scientology training to gain a higher degree of control over staff, students and preclears for himself personally."

"The same individual that transmitted the various Magick tech to Adolf Hitler as a young man also transmitted them to Dad. And like Dad, Hitler, when he came to power, promptly had his teachers and the occult field in general wiped out" L Ron Hubbard Jr - 1984 tape transcript
TRANSCRIPT OF TAPE #1 OF JUNE 28, 1984 - RON DE WOLF (Found at Lermanet)

alice-in-wonderland-kubark.jpg

Above a page from a once classified CIA Interrogation Manual (KUBARK = CIA word substitute)

"Released by the Freedom of Information Act. The CIA Document of Human Manipulation: Kubark Counterintelligence Interrogation Manual This document is a thorough description of how the CIA recommends interrogating a subject. To get the information that is needed "
 

Veda

Sponsor
"In truth he is making slaves . Love and compassion are negated and wisdom is replaced with delusional blind certainty as a fanatic who becomes more deluded and delusional". "He had a bridge to total freedom that leads to total slavery." Unfortunately I think you are right. It would be interesting to study the Crowley connexion, I started reading the book of the law a couple of years ago but didn't get through for lack of time.
Recommend obtaining a copy with the 'Introduction'. The copies I've seen on the Net lack the 'Introduction'.

Reading Crowley is one of my next projects, I'll see what resemblances I can find.

Have a look at the 'Sole Source Myth' thread: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?510-The-Sole-Source-Myth&p=4696

Here's a rambling conversation with someone who thought he was the reincarnation of Crowley. It looks at the dark side, including the main text of 'The Book of The Law' (Scroll down page):

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...-science&p=958310&highlight=law,+blood,+unfit


It would be interesting to read Nibs book, the one Jamie was talking about.

AFAIK, there is not likely to be a book by Nibs.

The introduction read by Jamie, a while back at an event, was Jamie's not Ron Jr.'s.

The main part - after the introduction - was a piece, which is maybe 5 pages long - titled 'Philadelphia'.

I was in communication with Ron Jr. and saw everything he had written up to his second settlement with $cientology in 1986. With the settlement came a lengthy retraction. This was Ron Jr.'s 2nd settlement and retraction, the first was from around 1973.

Excerpts from most of 'Philadelphia', and a small amount from a 50 or so page manuscript, 'One Tenth of One Percent', written in 1972, were used in the 1986, 1992, and 1996 book, 'Messiah or Madman?' I'd want to read 'One Tenth' again, but my impression - then - was that most of the material was not of great interest.

As for 'A telling of me, by me', that sounds like a new title for old material, although there's a slight possibility that Ron Jr., after settling in 1986, and before passing away in 1991, wrote some more material, but I tend to doubt it.

The only way Jamie would be able to obtain enough material for a book would be to interview Ron Jr.'s now grown children and, perhaps, if she's still alive, Ron Jr.'s wife, Henrietta.

If he did that - with a little bit of luck - it might help restore his grandfather's damaged credibility, and explain the unusual circumstances in which Ron Jr. - the only offspring of Hubbard Sr. to ever speak out - found himself.

Nibs said: "The book Alice in Wonderland (which of course some of the TRs are based on) and the companion book Alice Through the Looking Glass, were written by a master adept at the Magick. And he was, as they all are, unknown and secret. He was also a secret member of the Order of the Golden Dawn of which Aleister Crowley, the English black magician was involved in. And of course it was purposely used and put there by Dad because of its Magick association. And Dad used it secretly in the Scientology training to gain a higher degree of control over staff, students and preclears for himself personally."


Lewis Carroll was an interesting fellow.


"The same individual that transmitted the various Magick tech to Adolf Hitler as a young man also transmitted them to Dad. And like Dad, Hitler, when he came to power, promptly had his teachers and the occult field in general wiped out" L Ron Hubbard Jr - 1984 tape transcript
TRANSCRIPT OF TAPE #1 OF JUNE 28, 1984 - RON DE WOLF (Found at Lermanet)

I'm not sure what Nibs was saying here. Is he referring to Crowley? "Magic" with a "K" is Crowley's "Magic(k)." If so, then the same individual who transmitted "Magic(k)" (by books, just way Hubbard received it) also transmitted the "Magic(k)" to me and many others.

Perhaps someone else can provide a clarification.

As for the 1963 Interrogation manual, no doubt, Hubbard used confusion technique on Scientologists, however, IMO, it's a bit of a stretch to say that the 1957 'Dear Alice' from 'TR-1" is derived from this interrogation manual - even supposing that there might have been an earlier interrogation manual that also used the term "Alice in Wonderland" to describe confusion technique.

"Alice in Wonderland" has a long history as an adjective used to mean distorted or strange.

In the interrogation manual, the person being interrogated is not told what is occurring, whereas, with TRs, at least the person is made aware that he's reading from the book 'Alice in Wonderland' ('Through the Looking Glass').

Granted, the person thinks he's on a "Communications Course," or is doing "Auditor training" to sharpen his "auditing communication cycle skills," and, as usual, in Scientology, something else is also (covertly) happening, but I hesitate to leap into assuming the interrogation manual/TR 1 connection.

In any event, here's a chronology, AFAIK fairly complete, of references to 'Dear Alice':

1952: During the 'PDC' lectures, Hubbard speaks positively (a rarity) of a book that he calls 'The Master Therion'. The alternate title for this text is 'Magick in Theory and Practice'. In one section, Crowley presents a long list of books 'For serious study'. One of these is, 'Alice Through the Looking Glass'. It's described as being "Valuable to those who understand the Qabalah."

1955: The next reference is a medical/psychiatric term http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=24174

1955: The first reference to 'Alice in Wonderland' in Hubbard's writings appears in his ("Russian") 'Textbook on Psycho-Politics', a.k.a. the 'Brainwashing Manual' (which denounces Dianetics multiple times), originally written as a black propaganda vehicle for identifying his critics, including psychologists and psychiatrists, with Russian Communism, and then, later, used by him as a kind of blueprint for his Scientology operation. (And if Scientology is anything, it is a 'psychological-political operation', but I don't believe one initiated by any government.)

Says Hubbard - in the guise of a Russian psychiatrist - "There are those who have foolishly embarked upon some spiritual Alice-in-Wonderland voyage into what they call the 'subconscious' or 'unconscious' mind... There is no strength in such an approach."

Next is a quote from the out-of-print compilation book from the 1970s, 'Dianetics Today', which is taken from a recorded lecture (probably in the late 1950s), where Hubbard says, "Why 'Alice in Wonderland'? Well, that's just beacuse it is, no further significance."

So Hubbard, as usual, is hiding something.
 
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