What's new

ARC and KRC

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Rather be in a Dentist's chair.....having a tooth drilled, than talk about this.....but....

ARC triangle was stated as a method to increasing and bringing about Understanding. (which sounds like total bullshit now....)

But can't recall what the KRC triangle did.

If one employs the KRC triangle......what does that bring about?????

Anyone recall this one?

It seems the Cult today is using the KRC triangle on its members to know their bank account numbers...and credit card numbers....and taking control of them and taking responsibility for them....and turning the poor clams into slaves.....

IMO

There are two aspects, possibly. One is the theoretical and purported as in the writings, HCOBs, and the like. The other is what they actually do with it.
 

Anonycat

Crusader
Rather be in a Dentist's chair.....having a tooth drilled, than talk about this.....but....

ARC triangle was stated as a method to increasing and bringing about Understanding. (which sounds like total bullshit now....)

But can't recall what the KRC triangle did.

If one employs the KRC triangle......what does that bring about?????

Anyone recall this one?

It seems the Cult today is using the KRC triangle on its members to know their bank account numbers...and credit card numbers....and taking control of them and taking responsibility for them....and turning the poor clams into slaves.....

IMO

The crazy fuck said that if you employ all three of those in KRC, you'll remain at cause.
 

Anonycat

Crusader
I snipped the relevant part:

HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
HCO POLICY LETTER OF 18 FEBRUARY 1972
Remimeo

Executive Series 8


THE TOP TRIANGLE

The upper triangle is particularly applicative to an executive but applies to all Scientologists. It has not been widely known.
It is the K‑R‑C triangle. The points are K for Knowledge, R for Responsi­bility and C for Control.

It is difficult to be responsible for something or control something unless you have Knowledge of it.

It is folly to try to control something or even know something without Respon­sibility.

It is hard to fully know something or be responsible for something over which you have no Control, otherwise the result can be an overwhelm.
A being can of course run away from life (blow) and go sit on the backside of the moon and do nothing and think nothing. In which case he would need to know nothing, be responsible for nothing and control nothing. He would also be unhappy and he definitely would be dead so far as himself and all else was concerned. But, as you can’t kill a thetan, the state is impossible to maintain and the road back can be gruesome.

The route up from death or apathy or inaction is to Know something about it, take some Responsibility for the state one is in and the scene, and Control oneself to a point where some control is put into the scene to make it go right. Then Know why it went wrong, take Responsibility for it, and Control it enough to make it go more toward an ideal scene.

Little by little one can make anything go right by
Increasing Knowledge on all dynamics
Increasing Responsibility on all dynamics
Increasing Control on all dynamics.

If one sorts out any situation one finds oneself in on this basis, he will generally succeed.
Field Marshal Montgomery was supposed to have said that leadership was composed of “knowledge, will power, initiative and courage.” These are assumed qualities in a man. This was good advice but offered no road out or no avenue of increase in capability.

The KRC triangle acts like the ARC triangle. When one corner is increased the other two also rise.

Most thetans have a dreadfully bad opinion of their capabilities compared to what they actually are. Hardly any thetan believes himself capable of what he is really capable of accomplishing.
By inching up each corner of the KRC triangle bit by bit, ignoring the losses and making the wins firm, a being at length discovers his power and command of life.
The second triangle of the symbol of Scientology is well worth knowing.

It interacts best when used with high ARC. Thus the triangles interlock.
It is for use as well as all of Scientology.


L. RON HUBBARD

Founder
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
The crazy fuck said that if you employ all three of those in KRC, you'll remain at cause.

Theoretically, one would because it's Knowledge, Responsibility and Control.

If someone truly employed all three, did it perfectly, they'd be at cause.

But the rub is this: One cannot. Not in this world, anyway. There are elements of chance, weather, wars, what other people are doing. There's one's own problems, hangups, etc. (if I were using Scn lingo I'd say "aberrations" but I won't.) Hubbard was a poster child for that. He told others what to do while he himself- who allegedly went through all those processes and levels he created- just screwed up every time. He had tantrums, he couldn't control his weight, his dentition, he had heart problems. He died raving about bts which means that the OTIII processes didn't work.

So to me, it's a cool theoretical thing (yes, yes, I'm aware that I'm sometimes considered too soft on this stuff but I like to look at things theoretically. I live in the real world but I yearn for ivory towers...) that, on paper, works. Or in the pages of a fantasy fiction story. But try to really apply that and seek to be at cause? No.

I also think that this wanting to be at cause all the time may be evidence of what Buddhists refer to as the person's ego. Sometimes ya just gotta let things- and people- be. Let life flow onward even if it's not always ideal.
 

Leland

Crusader
^ Thanks for the above, Anonycat

It seems to me....that the cult is having its own members employ KRC on other members.....

KRs


Public are "particles..."

Other Cult SO....are "juniors" or on RPF.....or whatever.

To me, it sounds like survival of the fittest......and just plain brutality....with fists and kicking ....and locking people up in rooms....and restricting their liberty.....

It is a FAKE cause.....

it is not a real cause.....it is just the erosion,,,, of another's will to fight back....via a myriad of tiny cuts....


How could a registrar possible think they were "at cause" after say, 3 months of regging someone....for 2 or 3 or even 6 hours at a time....locked up in a room, with screaming.....threats....and what ever....going to their home...their work....badgering them with phone calls....texts..and emails....

It is totally insane...IMO


Personally for me, I thought the ARC triangle was for other people ....and the KRC triangle was for MEST.....

If you employed true KRC on a human....you'd turn them into a slave....
 

Anonycat

Crusader
^ Thanks for the above, Anonycat

It seems to me....that the cult is having its own members employ KRC on other members.....


Public are "particles..."

Other Cult SO....are "juniors" or on RPF.....or whatever.

To me, it sounds like survival of the fittest......and just plain brutality....with fists and kicking ....and locking people up in rooms....and restricting their liberty.....

It is a FAKE cause.....

it is not a real cause.....it is just the erosion,,,, of another's will to fight back....via a myriad of tiny cuts....

I think it's more mumbo jumbo that's supposed to sound like a solution. And make people at ease when the Reg comes for them. I had a puppy. I called a very highly recommended trainer. She came over, and told me how to give the little dog knowledge. I would execute an action or command, and the dog learned it. I then taught the dog to not leave the yard, and go onto public property, or to the neighbors lawn, and also taught it not to answer the call of nature indoors. It became responsible and learned control. Was it at cause? Nope.
 

Leland

Crusader
I had thought, KRC was fine for things such as tools and equipment.....

It seems rather rudimentary to me.

Of course...one has to learn to use a hammer...or a chisel....or any piece of equipment....

But KRC on another human....is just a way to make a slave...
 

Anonycat

Crusader
I had thought, KRC was fine for things such as tools and equipment.....

It seems rather rudimentary to me.

Of course...one has to learn to use a hammer...or a chisel....or any piece of equipment....

But KRC on another human....is just a way to make a slave...

You had heard that "controlling bodies" is bad. Then the first class you took, what happened? "Walk over to that wall." "Touch that wall."
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
You had heard that "controlling bodies" is bad. Then the first class you took, what happened? "Walk over to that wall." "Touch that wall."


It may mean something different from that. But it probably doesn't matter.

I personally always had trouble comprehending the tone scale positions below body death. It never ever made sense to me even when I was involved.
 

Leland

Crusader
Auditing was a "different" kettle of fish for me.

Yes, I certain know what you are talking about....but that was to "get up the bridge."

To me, it is a distorted view...to think that should be used all the time.

What happened to "end of session?"


Edited: this is a reply to Anonycat above..
 

Leland

Crusader
Anyway Anonycat....you are mixing up two different things from the Cult.

You are talking about 8-C....when you are talking about looking at a wall....or some such.

and not KRC....
 

Anonycat

Crusader
Anyway Anonycat....you are mixing up two different things from the Cult.

You are talking about 8-C....when you are talking about looking at a wall....or some such.

and not KRC....

What I said was that the Comm Course indoctrination flies in the face of what they just showed you on a chart. Still with me?
 

Anonycat

Crusader
evidently not. What chart? Don't know what you are talking about.

I'm off to get a hamburger.

Holy cow, I know more about scientology than an ex! No worries! I have studied this to be of help in any way I can.

We know that Controlling Bodies is -1.5 on the tone scale. VERY low -- just look at that poor blob on the chart! It's below DEATH!

Then we have the Upper Indoc TRs. These TRs, (6-9), emphasize with repetition, the ability to control people. I'm sure you remember how weird doing the TRs was. And it's it creepy that the second half of the Comm Course was "Upper Indoctrination"? Indoctrination means teaching someone to accept a set of beliefs without questioning them.

Tone_Scale.jpg
 
Holy cow, I know more about scientology than an ex! No worries! I have studied this to be of help in any way I can.

We know that Controlling Bodies is -1.5 on the tone scale. VERY low -- just look at that poor blob on the chart! It's below DEATH!

Then we have the Upper Indoc TRs. These TRs, (6-9), emphasize with repetition, the ability to control people. I'm sure you remember how weird doing the TRs was. And it's it creepy that the second half of the Comm Course was "Upper Indoctrination"? Indoctrination means teaching someone to accept a set of beliefs without questioning them.

Tone_Scale.jpg


I think we are all at Hate. That's why that actor's whose name I can't remember 'did a Tommy Davis' when he lashed out in a tone of Hostility or Antagonism, in the media recently Mind you, Tommy's were far more juicier, yelling, and almost spitting and everything.

Kirstie's usually antago tone must also be to make us come out of Hate, too, I guess.
 

Anonycat

Crusader
I think we are all at Hate. That's why that actor's whose name I can't remember 'did a Tommy Davis' when he lashed out in a tone of Hostility or Antagonism, in the media recently Mind you, Tommy's were far more juicier, yelling, and almost spitting and everything.

Kirstie's usually antago tone must also be to make us come out of Hate, too, I guess.

TR-9: Tone 40 on a Person! Humans are reduced to machines with Start and Stop buttons. FLUNK!

TONE 40 is defined as “giving a command and just knowing that it will be executed despite any contrary appearances.” Tone 40 is positive postulating. (PAB 133) And a positive postulate with no counter-thought expected, anticipated or anything else; that is, total control. (PAB 152) It's also an execution of intention. (HCOB 23 Aug 65)
 

Leland

Crusader
Holy cow, I know more about scientology than an ex! No worries! I have studied this to be of help in any way I can.

We know that Controlling Bodies is -1.5 on the tone scale. VERY low -- just look at that poor blob on the chart! It's below DEATH!

Then we have the Upper Indoc TRs. These TRs, (6-9), emphasize with repetition, the ability to control people. I'm sure you remember how weird doing the TRs was. And it's it creepy that the second half of the Comm Course was "Upper Indoctrination"? Indoctrination means teaching someone to accept a set of beliefs without questioning them.

Tone_Scale.jpg

It is not important...but I still don't get what you are driving at....or even how we got started on this discussion....or even what we are talking about.....

Can't recall where in the writings of Hub Tub....but there is something about the "thetan" being below body death.

Auditing is suppose to wake one up to that fact they are even alive at all....(as a spiritual being...) which the Cult had labeled a "thetan"
 

Anonycat

Crusader
I had thought, KRC was fine for things such as tools and equipment.....

It seems rather rudimentary to me.

Of course...one has to learn to use a hammer...or a chisel....or any piece of equipment....

But KRC on another human....is just a way to make a slave...

I took the "make a slave" aspect of the cult, and ran with it. To me, one of the interesting tools of the cult, is the contrary information. I do believe it's a corner of hypnotism and urges you to lose your rational side, and just surrender to all orders given. So, I have shown that they say Controlling Bodies is bad, but exactly that is in the first course. Or that you'll get Self-Determinism, when you actually get no say in anything! That is, until you leave, by real self-determinism. I find the cult is jam-packed with this kind of thing. Very forceful control systems, by taking your mind first, then the body and bank account will follow.
 

Leland

Crusader
I took the "make a slave" aspect of the cult, and ran with it. To me, one of the interesting tools of the cult, is the contrary information. I do believe it's a corner of hypnotism and urges you to lose your rational side, and just surrender to all orders given. So, I have shown that they say Controlling Bodies is bad, but exactly that is in the first course. Or that you'll get Self-Determinism, when you actually get no say in anything! That is, until you leave, by real self-determinism. I find the cult is jam-packed with this kind of thing. Very forceful control systems, by taking your mind first, then the body and bank account will follow.

Ok, I follow your posts now. I get what you are saying. Yes, I agree, the Cult writings are full of miss directions...and cross directions...and on and on.

But for me....it goes much deeper than that.

For me....yes, one can wake up to a sort of spiritual beingness....

BUT.. part of that is the Cult wants to "find you."

And....if the Cult has "found you" and you at anytime go against them.....they can hurt you. For me, some choose suicide because the pain is so bad, killing one self would be a relief...and a better way to go, than live with the torture.

To me, that is the source of the Suicides...and deaths....and problems.

The Cult CAN hurt .....and will hurt..... IMO

The degree to which they can hurt one or drive one crazy....is a matter of many different aspects, related to where one is on the bridge....

It is a difficult topic.....but that is my opinion.....

To say it is just a matter of hypnotism....is just glossing over "it" IMO.
 

eldritch cuckoo

brainslugged reptilian
:melodramatic: :biggrin:

We had that teacher who, after a lengthy explanation, would often ask, in a very casual, sincere sounding way:
"Anything still clear?"

Mockingbird's posts about how one definition in the triangles is replaced by another, secretly, and how they reinforce each other, made a whole lot of sense to me (and this whole thing also reminds me of the orwellian machinations in this example of Hubsspeak), and I'll desperately hold on to my "wins". :biggrin:
 
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