Elronius of Marcabia
Silver Meritorious Patron
If kharmic law is true there are now billion's of Bt's chasin Hoobard around target 2
now I dont care who you are thats a funny picture
run Ronny run:run:
Are BT's real?
- Thread starter Mimsey Borogrove
- Start date
If kharmic law is true there are now billion's of Bt's chasin Hoobard around target 2
now I dont care who you are thats a funny picture
run Ronny run:run:
Dulloldfart
Squirrel Extraordinaire
If kharmic law is true there are now billion's of Bt's chasin Hoobard around target 2
now I dont care who you are thats a funny picture
Yes. There are earlier posts on ESMB about trained attack-BTs doing their thing.
View attachment 5264
Paul
uncover
Gold Meritorious Patron
You don´t get it.... according to Hubbard-sophisticated-BT-tech BT´s stick (only) to living bodies - not thetans or doll-bodies. So obviously their only power is concerning living bodies. Therefore, as long as Hubbard stays on target 2 - without a body - he is on the safe side.If kharmic law is true there are now billion's of Bt's chasin Hoobard around target 2
now I dont care who you are thats a funny picture
Dean Blair
Silver Meritorious Patron
But it's not me doing it, it's my BTs or your BTs or somebody elses BTs. Besides David Miscavige pulled it in. That's Scientology Tek isn't it?
Elronius of Marcabia
Silver Meritorious Patron
You don´t get it.... according to Hubbard-sophisticated-BT-tech BT´s stick (only) to living bodies - not thetans or doll-bodies. So obviously their only power is concerning living bodies. Therefore, as long as Hubbard stays on target 2 - without a body - he is on the safe side.
I think I see the super genius of Hoobard now
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqUBNyF5Z8M
eldritch cuckoo
brainslugged reptilian
That sounds like a good idea for a (vile) voodoo ceremony.
First, make sure that the victim believes in the magic. Check.
The victim is aware that he has enemies. Check...
The victim believes his enemies are aberrated creatures with powerful allies, capable of committing any cruelty. Check...
Now ... I wonder what's the Scientology version of a little bag full of stinking bloody bones hidden somewhere in your belongings?
The sight of a Guy Fawkes mask or the newest bunker shoop of "Observer", maybe...
phenomanon
Canyon
Mimsey, I have read your message, but have not read the entire thread. I pretty much know what is said about BTs here because the subject has been discussed before.
What I want to tell you is to be sure that there's a SF or F on the "locate" question.
Next, I will point out that you are possibly blowing by inspection those that seem to disappear, or don't answer up. Could just be 'copies' that blow when they are spotted, or many times, a BT will blow when spotted.
Sounds like you're doing fine.
What I want to tell you is to be sure that there's a SF or F on the "locate" question.
Next, I will point out that you are possibly blowing by inspection those that seem to disappear, or don't answer up. Could just be 'copies' that blow when they are spotted, or many times, a BT will blow when spotted.
Sounds like you're doing fine.
mockingbird
Silver Meritorious Patron
Okay , I have to amend and expand on my earlier post on this .
I contended that Hub must have known he was inducing schizophrenia like conditions by the great similarities between the OT materials and the definition of schizophrenia .
I'll give you a little from Wikipedia on the fun of schizophrenia :Schizophrenia is a mental disorder often characterized by abnormal social behavior and failure to recognize what is real. Common symptoms include false beliefs, unclear or confused thinking, auditory hallucinations, reduced social engagement and emotional expression, and inactivity. Diagnosis is based on observed behavior and the person's reported experiences.
Individuals with schizophrenia may experience hallucinations (most reported are hearing voices), delusions (often bizarre or persecutory in nature), and disorganized thinking and speech. The last may range from loss of train of thought, to sentences only loosely connected in meaning, to speech that is not understandable known as word salad in severe cases. Social withdrawal, sloppiness of dress and hygiene, and loss of motivation and judgment are all common in schizophrenia. There is often an observable pattern of emotional difficulty, for example lack of responsiveness. Impairment in social cognition is associated with schizophrenia, as are symptoms of paranoia. Social isolation commonly occurs.Difficulties in working and long-term memory, attention, executive functioning, and speed of processing also commonly occur.
Schizophrenia is often described in terms of positive and negative (or deficit) symptoms. Positive symptoms are those that most individuals do not normally experience but are present in people with schizophrenia. They can include delusions, disordered thoughts and speech, and tactile, auditory, visual, olfactory and gustatory ( of taste ) hallucinations, typically regarded as manifestations of psychosis. Hallucinations are also typically related to the content of the delusional theme.Positive symptoms generally respond well to medication.[SUP]
[/SUP]
Negative symptoms are deficits of normal emotional responses or of other thought processes, and respond less well to medication. They commonly include flat expressions or little emotion, poverty of speech, inability to experience pleasure, lack of desire to form relationships, and lack of motivation. Negative symptoms appear to contribute more to poor quality of life, functional ability, and the burden on others than do positive symptoms. People with greater negative symptoms often have a history of poor adjustment before the onset of illness, and response to medication is often limited. End quote .
Now , I am NO expert on schizophrenia , never having had it ( I think !?)
Or had experience with it firsthand extensively which I HAVE had with criminals , sociopaths and pathological liars ( lucky me ) to reference when analyzing Hub and his 'work'.
I brought up this material on the condition for one important reason : There is a possibly valid theory on the origin of the OT materials AND info on the handling of symptoms Scientologists experience that I found and ASSUMED all exes found in their research as I found it in mine .
Okay , first keeping in mind the threadbare definition I have for schizophrenia I need to introduce another idea
again from Wikipedia )Folie à deux French for "a madness shared by two"), or shared psychosis, is a psychiatric syndrome in which symptoms of a delusional belief are transmitted from one individual to another.
The same syndrome shared by more than two people may be called folie à trois, folie à quatre, folie en famille or even folie à plusieurs ("madness of many"). Recent psychiatric classifications refer to the syndrome as shared psychotic disorder and induced delusional disorder .
Folie imposée is where a dominant person (known as the 'primary', 'inducer' or 'principal') initially forms a delusional belief during a psychotic episode and imposes it on another person or persons (known as the 'secondary', 'acceptor' or 'associate') with the assumption that the secondary person might not have become deluded if left to his or her own devices.End quote.
Now, SOME experts have analyzed Hub and see him as having schizophrenia ( and OTHER totalist leaders as doing so in a reoccurring pattern ).
SEVERAL cult leaders who have founded sects with syncretic ( from dictionary.com : the attempted reconciliation or union of different or opposing principles, practices, or parties, as in philosophy or religion.End quote ) beliefs systems including Manson , and many , many others have been diagnosed at times as schizophrenic.
Now , that is a LOT to chew on so I'll give it a little more attention and recap .
Lots of psychologists , sociologists , historians ,authors , and psychiatrists have INDEPENDENTLY evaluated the actions and personalities of guys ( and even girls ) who have combined philosophies and led governments ( totalitarian style ) or cults and found time and again that what drives a person to mix a lot of nits and pieces from religions and philosophies and occult practices and numerology etc . etc . and then say they are a messiah or were visited by an angel etc . is SEVERE mental illness !
In the form of ( among other things ) SCHIZOPHRENIA !!
Now , to be perfectly clear I AM NOT talking about ancient prophets or Jesus or anybody like that .
I am talking about Hub and the leaders ( usually founders ) of cults and certain totalitarian governments of the last - say two centuries - who could be studied with - hopefully - accurate records of their life and behavior .
If you go back much more the odds of true records decline immensely making analysis problematic in my opinion and for my purposes.
But if you look at Heaven's Gate , Aum Shinrikyo , Unification Church , Branch Davidians etc. etc. etc. AND Scientology the pattern has A LOT of evidence to support the claim that the leaders of these groups had similar SEVERE mental illnesses.
Comparative cult studies to find reoccurring PATTERNS is - to me - one of the best and most scientific ways to study cults and Scientology.
In other cults many crimes that occur in Scientology also occur - BUT with the important difference that the HIDING of what is done and how it is done is almost always far , far less refined .
I cannot emphasize enough that studying what cults have in common ( and other totalist groups and undue influence relationships ) WILL tremendously make easier and more accurate ANY study of Scientology.
Okay , now I have shown there is some evidence Hub had schizophrenia ( and there is actually a lot more including reports that his insanity grew so bad that he had to be hid from most Scientologists from the mid sixties on as he was too bat shit crazy for even the cultists by then ! )
And , if that was not enough - some earlier cult researchers have suggested his coming up with OT III after getting high as hell and drunk off his ass and then reading an old FF comic book and the insane cult text OAHSPE ( free online if you want to read utter nonsense and see the term wall of fire and other ideas Hub stole ) occurred because instead of running what his auditor was trying to run - Hub exhibited the symptoms of schizophrenia and FANTASIZED or HALLUCINATED the ENTIRE OT III incident as part of his madness !
Look , Hub " knew " that auditing was in fact bullshit - as can be proven many , many times in earlier materials and Lermanet.com etc. etc.
So he felt free to just run whatever the fuck felt good at anytime !
See , he had people to humor whatever crazy fantasies he came up with - so he went hog wild !
Look , he was batshit crazy so he could have vacillated between wishing his bullshit was true ( and hiding it ) and half - believing ( BUT still hiding it - so he NEVER totally bought it ).
You might even say that being a pathological liar for SO long and lying and lying so much made his insanity grow and grow so he was in constant unending delusion within delusion for the last couple of DECADES !
Plainly, he started out as a very crazy motherfucker and CONSTANTLY lying non-stop for fifteen or twenty YEARS drove him into a super ultra insanity that very few humans experience .
He could not tell truth from lie or up from down and just followed a pattern of fooling to conquer - or lying to control with almost no reason by the end .
He used confusion to enslave others and became confused at a level almost no one will EVER achieve .
Some would consider that just but to me it is just another waste and does not help his other victims .
So , the point of all this is to show that there is another - possibly more correct theory on the whole BT issue.
Hub in his madness may have " run " them for fun - because his illness drove him to it !
AND following the Folie a deux model - ALL the Scientologists who ran it after him may have ( to greatly varying degrees ) been following his INSANE EXAMPLE !
SOMETIMES to insanity themselves !
See , normally a nut-job telling a sane person about seventy five year old alien spirits that got nuked and are EVERYWHERE and in everything influencing life is...ineffective at inducing insanity.
BUT Scientologists usually have a routinely immensely increased suggestive state to anything labeled Hub and get the OT III and above materials in very rigidly controlled cult ceremonies so....
What I am saying is that IN THE CULT environment AFTER receiving other cult indoctrination to greatly increase vulnerability a Scientologist may have an artificial induced insanity - that has no basis in authentic experiences - only in hallucinations and dissociation .
Now , I do have some good news to go with this .
I found - and had assumed others have as well - records of Scientologists who did the upper levels RECOVERING and no longer seeing BTs and other OT phenomena .
The recovery did not involve auditing - it involved LEARNING Hub was a liar and Scientology is a fraud .
Let me make that clear - it was not being told Scientology is fake - it was LOOKING and finding out for one's self that Hub lied by checking his real school records and military records and SEEING proof that he stole materials from others and was a terrible husband ( three times over ) .
In one case a guy took communication courses from sales people and found them SUPERIOR to Scientology as part of his recovery .
See , there is a theory that to stop these " induced hallucinations " a person MUST understand that HE ( or SHE ) is actually creating them by BELIEVING they are real !
I would not bring this up except for one thing - there is evidence this treatment WORKS .
It is an idea that is probably older than Scientology and has been researched in areas and including patients who had nothing to do with Hub !
So , if you are having trouble with BTs find what made YOU think they could exist and see if THAT can be - by YOUR own investigation discredited to the point where you consider BTs being fake as POSSIBLE . Now , this may even be earlier things that are why you believe - it is Hub's authority or altitude you GAVE that must be removed by YOU . It is a personal experience that can differ person to person .
Then if you can start just KNOWING they are fake ( of course while not auditing or using any cult practices or terms ) SEE if they go away !
If this does not work let me know and feel free to send them ALL to ME . ( By thought - no real people allowed )
If they are bothering or biting you let me know .
I contended that Hub must have known he was inducing schizophrenia like conditions by the great similarities between the OT materials and the definition of schizophrenia .
I'll give you a little from Wikipedia on the fun of schizophrenia :Schizophrenia is a mental disorder often characterized by abnormal social behavior and failure to recognize what is real. Common symptoms include false beliefs, unclear or confused thinking, auditory hallucinations, reduced social engagement and emotional expression, and inactivity. Diagnosis is based on observed behavior and the person's reported experiences.
Individuals with schizophrenia may experience hallucinations (most reported are hearing voices), delusions (often bizarre or persecutory in nature), and disorganized thinking and speech. The last may range from loss of train of thought, to sentences only loosely connected in meaning, to speech that is not understandable known as word salad in severe cases. Social withdrawal, sloppiness of dress and hygiene, and loss of motivation and judgment are all common in schizophrenia. There is often an observable pattern of emotional difficulty, for example lack of responsiveness. Impairment in social cognition is associated with schizophrenia, as are symptoms of paranoia. Social isolation commonly occurs.Difficulties in working and long-term memory, attention, executive functioning, and speed of processing also commonly occur.
Schizophrenia is often described in terms of positive and negative (or deficit) symptoms. Positive symptoms are those that most individuals do not normally experience but are present in people with schizophrenia. They can include delusions, disordered thoughts and speech, and tactile, auditory, visual, olfactory and gustatory ( of taste ) hallucinations, typically regarded as manifestations of psychosis. Hallucinations are also typically related to the content of the delusional theme.Positive symptoms generally respond well to medication.[SUP]
[/SUP]
Negative symptoms are deficits of normal emotional responses or of other thought processes, and respond less well to medication. They commonly include flat expressions or little emotion, poverty of speech, inability to experience pleasure, lack of desire to form relationships, and lack of motivation. Negative symptoms appear to contribute more to poor quality of life, functional ability, and the burden on others than do positive symptoms. People with greater negative symptoms often have a history of poor adjustment before the onset of illness, and response to medication is often limited. End quote .
Now , I am NO expert on schizophrenia , never having had it ( I think !?)
Or had experience with it firsthand extensively which I HAVE had with criminals , sociopaths and pathological liars ( lucky me ) to reference when analyzing Hub and his 'work'.
I brought up this material on the condition for one important reason : There is a possibly valid theory on the origin of the OT materials AND info on the handling of symptoms Scientologists experience that I found and ASSUMED all exes found in their research as I found it in mine .
Okay , first keeping in mind the threadbare definition I have for schizophrenia I need to introduce another idea
again from Wikipedia )Folie à deux French for "a madness shared by two"), or shared psychosis, is a psychiatric syndrome in which symptoms of a delusional belief are transmitted from one individual to another.The same syndrome shared by more than two people may be called folie à trois, folie à quatre, folie en famille or even folie à plusieurs ("madness of many"). Recent psychiatric classifications refer to the syndrome as shared psychotic disorder and induced delusional disorder .
Folie imposée is where a dominant person (known as the 'primary', 'inducer' or 'principal') initially forms a delusional belief during a psychotic episode and imposes it on another person or persons (known as the 'secondary', 'acceptor' or 'associate') with the assumption that the secondary person might not have become deluded if left to his or her own devices.End quote.
Now, SOME experts have analyzed Hub and see him as having schizophrenia ( and OTHER totalist leaders as doing so in a reoccurring pattern ).
SEVERAL cult leaders who have founded sects with syncretic ( from dictionary.com : the attempted reconciliation or union of different or opposing principles, practices, or parties, as in philosophy or religion.End quote ) beliefs systems including Manson , and many , many others have been diagnosed at times as schizophrenic.
Now , that is a LOT to chew on so I'll give it a little more attention and recap .
Lots of psychologists , sociologists , historians ,authors , and psychiatrists have INDEPENDENTLY evaluated the actions and personalities of guys ( and even girls ) who have combined philosophies and led governments ( totalitarian style ) or cults and found time and again that what drives a person to mix a lot of nits and pieces from religions and philosophies and occult practices and numerology etc . etc . and then say they are a messiah or were visited by an angel etc . is SEVERE mental illness !
In the form of ( among other things ) SCHIZOPHRENIA !!
Now , to be perfectly clear I AM NOT talking about ancient prophets or Jesus or anybody like that .
I am talking about Hub and the leaders ( usually founders ) of cults and certain totalitarian governments of the last - say two centuries - who could be studied with - hopefully - accurate records of their life and behavior .
If you go back much more the odds of true records decline immensely making analysis problematic in my opinion and for my purposes.
But if you look at Heaven's Gate , Aum Shinrikyo , Unification Church , Branch Davidians etc. etc. etc. AND Scientology the pattern has A LOT of evidence to support the claim that the leaders of these groups had similar SEVERE mental illnesses.
Comparative cult studies to find reoccurring PATTERNS is - to me - one of the best and most scientific ways to study cults and Scientology.
In other cults many crimes that occur in Scientology also occur - BUT with the important difference that the HIDING of what is done and how it is done is almost always far , far less refined .
I cannot emphasize enough that studying what cults have in common ( and other totalist groups and undue influence relationships ) WILL tremendously make easier and more accurate ANY study of Scientology.
Okay , now I have shown there is some evidence Hub had schizophrenia ( and there is actually a lot more including reports that his insanity grew so bad that he had to be hid from most Scientologists from the mid sixties on as he was too bat shit crazy for even the cultists by then !
)And , if that was not enough - some earlier cult researchers have suggested his coming up with OT III after getting high as hell and drunk off his ass and then reading an old FF comic book and the insane cult text OAHSPE ( free online if you want to read utter nonsense and see the term wall of fire and other ideas Hub stole ) occurred because instead of running what his auditor was trying to run - Hub exhibited the symptoms of schizophrenia and FANTASIZED or HALLUCINATED the ENTIRE OT III incident as part of his madness !
Look , Hub " knew " that auditing was in fact bullshit - as can be proven many , many times in earlier materials and Lermanet.com etc. etc.
So he felt free to just run whatever the fuck felt good at anytime !
See , he had people to humor whatever crazy fantasies he came up with - so he went hog wild !
Look , he was batshit crazy so he could have vacillated between wishing his bullshit was true ( and hiding it ) and half - believing ( BUT still hiding it - so he NEVER totally bought it ).
You might even say that being a pathological liar for SO long and lying and lying so much made his insanity grow and grow so he was in constant unending delusion within delusion for the last couple of DECADES !
Plainly, he started out as a very crazy motherfucker and CONSTANTLY lying non-stop for fifteen or twenty YEARS drove him into a super ultra insanity that very few humans experience .
He could not tell truth from lie or up from down and just followed a pattern of fooling to conquer - or lying to control with almost no reason by the end .
He used confusion to enslave others and became confused at a level almost no one will EVER achieve .
Some would consider that just but to me it is just another waste and does not help his other victims .
So , the point of all this is to show that there is another - possibly more correct theory on the whole BT issue.
Hub in his madness may have " run " them for fun - because his illness drove him to it !
AND following the Folie a deux model - ALL the Scientologists who ran it after him may have ( to greatly varying degrees ) been following his INSANE EXAMPLE !
SOMETIMES to insanity themselves !
See , normally a nut-job telling a sane person about seventy five year old alien spirits that got nuked and are EVERYWHERE and in everything influencing life is...ineffective at inducing insanity.
BUT Scientologists usually have a routinely immensely increased suggestive state to anything labeled Hub and get the OT III and above materials in very rigidly controlled cult ceremonies so....
What I am saying is that IN THE CULT environment AFTER receiving other cult indoctrination to greatly increase vulnerability a Scientologist may have an artificial induced insanity - that has no basis in authentic experiences - only in hallucinations and dissociation .
Now , I do have some good news to go with this .
I found - and had assumed others have as well - records of Scientologists who did the upper levels RECOVERING and no longer seeing BTs and other OT phenomena .
The recovery did not involve auditing - it involved LEARNING Hub was a liar and Scientology is a fraud .
Let me make that clear - it was not being told Scientology is fake - it was LOOKING and finding out for one's self that Hub lied by checking his real school records and military records and SEEING proof that he stole materials from others and was a terrible husband ( three times over ) .
In one case a guy took communication courses from sales people and found them SUPERIOR to Scientology as part of his recovery .
See , there is a theory that to stop these " induced hallucinations " a person MUST understand that HE ( or SHE ) is actually creating them by BELIEVING they are real !
I would not bring this up except for one thing - there is evidence this treatment WORKS .
It is an idea that is probably older than Scientology and has been researched in areas and including patients who had nothing to do with Hub !
So , if you are having trouble with BTs find what made YOU think they could exist and see if THAT can be - by YOUR own investigation discredited to the point where you consider BTs being fake as POSSIBLE . Now , this may even be earlier things that are why you believe - it is Hub's authority or altitude you GAVE that must be removed by YOU . It is a personal experience that can differ person to person .
Then if you can start just KNOWING they are fake ( of course while not auditing or using any cult practices or terms ) SEE if they go away !
If this does not work let me know and feel free to send them ALL to ME . ( By thought - no real people allowed )
If they are bothering or biting you let me know .
Last edited:
programmer_guy
True Ex-Scientologist
Okay , I have to amend and expand on my earlier post on this .
I contended that Hub must have known he was inducing schizophrenia like conditions by the great similarities between the OT materials and the definition of schizophrenia .
<snip>
OTOH, I believe that LRH was BOTH self deceived (OT state is out there somewhere) AND a charlaten (you'll achieve it at OT VIII).
mockingbird
Silver Meritorious Patron
Well , Programmer guy , I think Hub was certainly batshit crazy and a fraud !
I just want others to see all three possibilities as the scope of his insanity and cruelty and fraud are EACH mind boggling !
I just want others to see all three possibilities as the scope of his insanity and cruelty and fraud are EACH mind boggling !
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