Are OT3 and Dianetics the same?

Udarnik

Gold Meritorious Patron
Wow. And just think, in all those thousands of hours of using the meter with big cans we never realized how much signal noise those cans were producing!

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Someone who knows how to use one should let you hold the cans of a proper e-meter for a minute or two, Udarnik. :)

Paul

No, you didn't. Because the meter never let you see it.

The reason you don't see the potential noise on the meter is that the thing is damped poorly.

The underdamped nature of the E-meter will cause certain measurements to look the same. For example, a 1Hz square wave will cause the same motion on the needle as a 1Hz sine wave. In biofeedback terms, a rapid change (square wave) will be smoothed out (sine wave). These two conditions indicate radically different underlying physiological phenomena, so a device which confuses the two is decidedly non-optimal.
 

AnonKat

Crusader
Time for the Autopsy again.

[video=youtube;YHDMEBoOYXo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHDMEBoOYXo[/video]

[video=youtube;qkXlhSVc8Kw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkXlhSVc8Kw[/video]
 

Caroline

Patron Meritorious
It reminds me of a story a friend told me of being exterior ( if recall serves) and was looking at some one and was seeing the field around the person, and how it went into the ground under his feet.

Mimsey

Here's some indoc that mentions "exterior" and "anchor points" in the context of NOTs theory. First, that diagram again:

und-emeter-048.jpg


Hubbard said:
ANCHOR POINTS, 1. assigned or agreed-upon points of boundary, which are conceived to be motionless by the individual. (PDC 13) 2. points which are anchored in a space different to the physical universe space around a body. (FOT, p. 63) 3. those places which we called in Advanced Procedures and Axioms the sub-brains of the body; control centers, epicenters. (5410C10D) 4. the points which mark an area of space are called anchor points, and these, with the viewpoint, alone are responsible for space. (Scn Jour, Iss 14-G) 5. a specialized kind of dimension point. (Scn 8-8008, p. 16) 6. any kind of a point, any kind of a particle, any kind of electron, or anything which anybody believes is an actual point. There is nothing more real than a real anchor point. (2ACC-1A 5311CM17)

Hubbard, L. R., (1975) Dianetics and Scientology Technical Dictionary, Los Angeles: Church of Scientology of California Publications Organization.

Hubbard said:
EXTERIOR” VISION, BT PERCEPTION

You can get a sort of exterior view as they blow - it’s not an actual exterior view, but an apparency of an exterior view. It’s the BT’s visio feeding back to you while the BT is blowing. This visio folds up when the BT has blown and your attention is off it. It’s not your own exterior view, it’s their exterior view as they’re blowing and it fades as they blow and your attention comes off them.

It’s to do with viewpoints and attention - if you get one of your viewpoints (attention unit) in one (a BT or cluster), it will carry it and you sort of see through their perception - it’s how you see their pictures and why you get some of their visio as they blow.

It has also been noted that when you do get a feedback visio from a “BT” as it blows, that it is actually not a single BT, but two or three and the feedback is coming from another or other BTs who have not cognited that he is himself. In other words it is an uncleared BT or cluster who is carrying this visio anchor point away.

Not all exterior perception comes from BTs though. The Pre-OT can also get an exterior view which is his own actual exterior perception. If the Pre-OT gets a stuck or fixed exterior view, it is easily handled by having the Pre-OT look the other way, i.e. look in the opposite direction, and the fixed direction of view, will unfix. It is easy to differentiate between actual exterior perception of Pre-OT and the phenomena of the Exterior view of a BT during a blow, by checking on the meter. If it is the view of a BT partially blown, it will read as such. Partially blown BTs should be handled to complete blow at which point the relayed BT visio will cease.

There is a positive way to handle this if it hangs up. This is for the Pre-OT to extend his attention out to the point to which the BT or cluster has blown and ask it again what it is, give it an ack, and then ask who it is. The untouched or uncleared BT or cluster that is being carried away goes “poof” and the exterior visio ceases instantly.

There’s also perception by tactile contact, when the BT is attached to the body.

Hubbard, L. (1978, 17 September) NED for OTs Series 16 Confidential "Exterior" Vision, BT Perception.

This might be a good time to replay that OT VIII video. :mindblow:
 
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Alle G

Patron with Honors
How are the e-meter reads affected by breathing?

For example, I have used Emotive helmet, where you place wet sensors on scalp and try to change brainwaves you see on the screen by doing your normal meditation or thinking calming thoughts. I have seen how an advanced meditator (my relative) increased amount of alpha waves on the screen by regulating breathing.

Anxiety or tranquility or sleep produce different breathing patterns.

So how do different breathing patterns show on the e-meter?
 

Gib

Crusader
quantum-brochure1.jpg


For all those itsy bitsy BTs ....

Man, when you really read that promo piece,

from the viewpoint of a person who believed it all, why one is SOLD.

But now, from the viewpoint of having been in, and now out,

I can really see the Sales Pitch. All the buttons are pushed.

I just laugh. It's like an info commercial, like on TV for the super duper Wammo cloth that will clean anything. Or the bigger and better paper towels that will absorb more spillage, Mr. Clean comes to the rescue.

LOL
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
How are the e-meter reads affected by breathing?

In careful use there is no disturbance of the reads at all. In other words, normal breathing does not show. Deep breaths and sighs can show up, and any student auditor learns to discount these reads.

One time a deep breath IS used is in doing a "metabolism test" before a session. This video shows four of them, with commentary and annotations showing when the read starts and ends in relation to the deep breath in and out. Very instructive for some.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK6QV_zPd0s

Paul
 
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Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
No, you didn't. Because the meter never let you see it.

The reason you don't see the potential noise on the meter is that the thing is damped poorly.

The thing is that there are well over a dozen different meters on the market, some cult ones and some made by people outside the cult. As far as I know, none of the non-cult analogue ones use the same needle movements, and the digital ones have whatever "damping" characteristics the designer chooses. Some of the digital ones allow the user to tweak the "damping" setting to taste.

I have 26 metering videos online at http://www.youtube.com/user/esmbdof/videos, showing three different meters in use, none of them cult ones. 10 of the videos show a computer meter.

This video shows an "analogue" meter (Clarity meter from Hank Levin) next to an on-screen computer-meter (C-Meter from Ralph Hilton). I've got one pair of electrodes (solo cans) in one hand hooked up to the Clarity meter, and one pair of electrodes (fingertip ones) on the other hand hooked up to the C-meter. You can see how the needles move together (or not).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEvS_EDs58o

I did a similar comparison back in 2005 with a (cult) Mark VII and the Clarity meter. The needles moved together but with about 1/4 second (estimated) delay for one side of the body. It was my body and not the meters as I swapped hands and got the same thing on the other meter, i.e., it wasn't the obvious possibility of one of the meters delaying the read. Oh, it's the stroke I had in 2001, I thought, except the stroke affected the right side of my body and it was the left side that had the delay. Curious.

Paul
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
Helluvan exchange between HH and Udarnik.

Udarnik, I'm not sure whether your expertise extends in this direction, but I wonder if you could comment on an issue that has come up over the years to do with the E-Meter.

Does the electrical current put out by the E-Meter contribute in any significant way to the generation of the psychological condition or conditions HH and you observe or deduce in Scientologists? You say you are trying to get to the underlying biological mechanism, and the meter current and its fields in the body are biological.

Scientologists at OT 3 and above rack up hundreds and even thousands of hours on the device, but even before then Scientologists have usually had hundreds of hours on it. Does the current reinforce, or hardwire in, the thoughts, the gain, the alignment with the meter, Scientology, Hubbard, etc.?

Arnie Lerma has some technical info on the E-Meter that may be helpful, here: http://www.lermanet.com/e-metershort.htm



(Even so, there's a set of Scientologists that still their thoughts, and know that listening to all the transient noises in your head and turning your attention to them is for customers, or suckers, or elemental staff members. The DMs, Moxons, Rathbuns, et al. focus the attention, ding in the memes and want that gain rising.)

FWIW, I've met many a deadicated (sic) glare Scieno who has negligible to no exposure on an emeter...yet they were entirely indoctrinated.
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
Here's some indoc that mentions "exterior" and "anchor points" in the context of NOTs theory. First, that diagram again:

und-emeter-048.jpg






This might be a good time to replay that OT VIII video. :mindblow:

Looks a lot like the "field" I used to see around people when I was tripping on acid. Probably why Hubbard and Scientologists hated acid-heads so much: they've found a faster, cheaper way that doesn't require servitude.
 

Caroline

Patron Meritorious
FWIW, I've met many a deadicated (sic) glare Scieno who has negligible to no exposure on an emeter...yet they were entirely indoctrinated.

I'd agree that the E-Meter is not necessary for the effects you are talking about, guanoloco. I was hooked before my first metered interview, and actually before I started my first course.

The brainwash begins with the acceptance of Hubbard's (and the Scientologists') authority. Indoctrination and its effects continue until the victims leave Scientology. Leaving "the Church" doesn't end it.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
I'd agree that the E-Meter is not necessary for the effects you are talking about, guanoloco. I was hooked before my first metered interview, and actually before I started my first course.

The brainwash begins with the acceptance of Hubbard's (and the Scientologists') authority. Indoctrination and its effects continue until the victims leave Scientology. Leaving "the Church" doesn't end it.

Us, too!! (Meaning me and my BTs.)

...which has inspired a new song parody...

"We Are [STRIKE]Family[/STRIKE] One Entity"

We are one entity
I got all my BTs with me
We are one entity
Get up meat bodies and sing

We are one entity
I got all my BTs with me
We are one entity
Get up you meat bodies and sing

Everyone can see we're together
As we walk on by
And (Fly) and we fly just like birds of a feather
I won't tell no lie
(All) all of the people around us they say
Can they be that close
Just let me state for the record
We're giving love in a meat body dose

We are one big meat body
I got all my BTs with me
We are one meat body
Get up you conglomerates and sing (sing it to me)

We are family
Captain Bill, Ron and me
We are fucking crazy
Going OT is really Type III

Living life is fun and we've just begun
To get our share of the world's delights
We rob and steal lie and get high
And our goal's in sight
(We) no we don't get depressed
Here's what we call our golden rule
Gives us all your cash or we'll Fair Game you
You won't go wrong, oh-no
We'll kick you in your family Jewels

We are family
Captain Bill, Ron and me
We are batshit crazy
Going OT is really Type III​
 

Gib

Crusader
I'd agree that the E-Meter is not necessary for the effects you are talking about, guanoloco. I was hooked before my first metered interview, and actually before I started my first course.

The brainwash begins with the acceptance of Hubbard's (and the Scientologists') authority. Indoctrination and its effects continue until the victims leave Scientology. Leaving "the Church" doesn't end it.

Thank you for stating that.

While that statement is subtle, it's the truth.

Hubbard got people to not look at other routes.

And as I have figured out, hubbard said the most important part of the ARC triangle was communication. But, in actuality, it was agreement.

Or "acceptance" as you noted.

Hubbard got people to agree, or accept what he said as truth. And he enforced thru KSW no other routes ( or practices) are accepted, or agreed upon.
 

Udarnik

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thank you for stating that.

While that statement is subtle, it's the truth.

Hubbard got people to not look at other routes.

And as I have figured out, hubbard said the most important part of the ARC triangle was communication. But, in actuality, it was agreement.

Or "acceptance" as you noted.

Hubbard got people to agree, or accept what he said as truth. And he enforced thru KSW no other routes ( or practices) are accepted, or agreed upon.

And it was agreement based on bait and switch. He'd re-define a word until the way you use it in $cientology is not anything we'd recognize in the wog world. For example, "ethics" actually means "coercion". Who could be against "ethics"? Not me. But coercion?

Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason? Why if it prosper, none dare call it treason.
 
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