Are past lives consecutive?

Dave B.

Maximus Ultimus Mostimus


If anyone is maybe feeling too sane, read this.
:omg: :omg: :omg:

Whackadoodle deluxe.


Wait, I take that back! The dude seems perfectly sane to me.


"That brought me to my biggest cognition of all. L. Ron Hubbard lied to me.
I was subjected to Mind Control, if not Mind Rape.
Don't bother looking up Mind Control in the Dianetics and Scientology Technical Dictionary. You won't find it. In my case, Mind Control was a system of influence used to change my beliefs and identity. The Church of Scientology exploited my need for approval, and my desperation to be loved. I allowed myself to be controlled through fear -- fear of being invalidated, dread of Ethics, and terror of losing my immortality through Irrevocable Ethics Orders and other assorted cockamamie bullshit. I had the felony compounded through massive doses of hypnosis -- both by my auditors, and to a lesser degree by Dr. Geertz. Don't think for a moment that reverie, boil off and anaten are not hypnosis, because they are. Even the TRs are a form of both hypnosis and Mind Control. The language of Scientology removed me further and further from my friends and family, which ultimately made me more susceptible to their system of influence, or thought reform.
Words like "Reasonableness" and "Human Emotion and Reaction", which have positive connotations in wog society have quite negative implications in Scientology. Even my reference to "wog society" is an example of how language influences thinking.
Eddie Da Rocha gave me a book to read, entitled Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steven Hassan (Park Street Press, Rochester, Vermont, 1988). That helped tremendously. The author wasn't even a former Scientologist -- he is an ex-Moonie. Yet there were similarities, and I realized this.
I have a long way to go.
Like an alcoholic who admits to having a problem, that was my first step toward recovery. I freely confess that I am halfway nuts. The mental image pictures and the nightmares which I still have are enough to frighten the dead into an auditing chair. Scenes of concentration camps and rapes and hangings and cannibalism haunt and torment me day and night. The very thought of going into agreement with psychiatry still sends chills up and down my spine, and I cringe in horror at their abuses. None of the therapy that I received from Uwe Geertz, Margaret Singer, and Richard Ofshe allowed me to break away from Scientology, because I perceived the "psychs" as the "enemy." All "psychs" are "enemy SPs" to a dedicated Scientologist. There was never any element of trust with respect to the therapists. How could I respond to them if I did not trust them? After all, none of them have ever gone through what I went through. They will freely admit that.
But my counselors, on the other hand, are all ex-Scientologists. I have been able to relate to them. Margery Wakefield is facing a prison sentence of her own for speaking out in defiance of a gag order prohibiting her from talking about Scientology. Why would Scientology pay such a high price for silence unless there was something very ominous to hide?
There is no doubt in my mind -- Scientology is a cult, and also a business. L. Ron Hubbard set it all up that way. He was the Establishment Officer of False Data International. Ron lied to me, just as he is lying to every Scientologist on the face of this un-Clearable planet. Indeed he is Source -- the Source of Lies.
In the real world of practical, applied Scientology, if you cease to be valuable to Scientology and to L. Ron Hubbard, you cease to be valuable as a thetan.
Well, my friends -- I am turning in my thetan. I want to be valuable to others, in spite of myself.
I have also found that through the support of caring people and true friends, the Lonesome Squirrel isn't quite so lonesome anymore.
Total Freedom is quite accurately freedom from L. Ron Hubbard.
So the parting advice which I wish to give you is to stay Clear -- of Scientology."
 

Robert Moor

Patron
This topic goes to what I've said before and will say again...despite Fishman's "quirks" he REALLY DID have a good understanding of Scientology's beliefs...Despite his loony ways everything he says in his deposition and in "Lonesome Squirrel" syncs up with my research into Scientology's beliefs and cosmology.......as far as his actual involvement...well I couldn't say..I'm a "never in" and therefore wasn't around flag during his claimed activities but as for his interpretation of the more "esoteric" (thanks tommy davis) teachings I'd say he was spot on.....I feel sometimes in the midst of all the fraud, brain washing, scamming, and slavery the actual belief structure gets lost....exactly like the dark forces want....

This exact debate about consecutive vs non-consecutive and parallel past lives is part of what made Fishman start to question things....he had data that indicated they were not consecutive as well as data that indicated individual thetans operate multiple bodies simultaneously but was rebuked by his contacts in the church...this is probably the only thing that kept him from doing an "end-cycle" on himself...nobody could refute the data that he had because nobody would acknowledge it and therefore nobody could assure him he would come back in the present/ future and not prior to scientology's inception....he had the largest privately held library of Scientology shit....and was crazy enough to eat it up...he must have had a decent understanding of what it was all about.....
 
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Demented LRH

Patron Meritorious
This morning, I was thinking - Why, if the thetan is outside MEST (matter energy space and time) does he have to have past lives in sequence? Wouldn't that be agreement with an appearancy ( time )? Why couldn't my next life be earlier than the current one? Or concurrent? Is there any reason why I couldn't pick a body in any yesterday I wanted? One of the big complaints is: where do all of the thetans come from as the planet's population continues to expand? You could be doing double or triple duty, and inhabit several bodies at once. A popular theme is that you are only using a small percentage of the brain's capacity. Perhaps the rest of you is elsewhere, or in several elsewheres or elsewhens. Think how living non consecutive lives could be an interesting game. You gasp your last breath as and ex, pop out of your body and you think, "I am so glad I was never in the Sea Org. If I was I'd do things differently. The right way!" The next thing you know, you are being born in 1960 in Bucks County, Pennsylvania in the Philadelphia area to the Roman Catholic Polish-Italian family.... You are a smallish child, with some breathing difficulties, but start in the local gym to build yourself up, so you can take on straightening out the Sea Org. Ha ha, you say, there is no way I am going to be him. But why couldn't you pick up a body in Viet Nam? You work in the rice patties, and one fine day you hear that your country is being overrun with these gross, overweight, obnoxious Americans, so you pick up a gun and before you know it - you are fighting in the Tet Offensive? Or you are sitting on the banks of the River Rubicon, watching Caesar pace back and forth? Or you go back to the time of your birth and pick up a body of a friend you have always admired and live a life parallel to the one you just left? Or your brother? Or parent? Or your lover?With the loss of memory that accompanies a new life you'd never know you were on the most narcissistic life imaginable. But what if some of the knowledge from this life bled through into the next non-consecutive life? Talk about Deja vu. Or that premonition you keep having about this really big earthquake... or the one that lead you to buy stock in Microsoft when you did.Fun, fun, fun.Much more fun than merely dying and going forwards. Maybe I am you in a non-consecutive life? Or you me?Mimsey
Past lives are concurrent because the thetans are outside the space and time. This means that at this very moment Hubbard is reliving his life as a clam, he is being tortured by electron rays, his thetan is being stuck at the implant station and being impregnated with all kinds of implants, he is standing under the Gorilla sign and masturbating as described in the Admissions, and, finally, he is creating stars and sentient beings as he claimed in The Creation of Human Ability.
 

Gib

Crusader
I once told my auditor I died 50 years from now, and here I am.

He opened his eyes, looked at the e-meter, said "Thank You, your needle is floating. End of session". :laugh:

damn, I forgot to mention, after the session ended, the auditor and I went to the examiner.

She asked me if there is anything I wish to say. I said, "yes!!!!!!!!, I realized I came for the future!!!!!!!", and I had a big smile. She said:

"Your needle is floating".

She asked if I wanted to write a success story, and I did. I even said it was OK to publish my success story.

I wish I could tell you about the future, but I'm afraid I'm under strict COS policy of not talking about case. I will state this though, the future is different than now, much different, and not what you think. :laugh:
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
I don't have a direct answer to the thread's title beyond mumbling something about angels and pins.

I will note that the time tag on incidents is somewhat fluid. This is commonly noticed in terms of not remembering exactly when something happened, even in this lifetime, let alone in other lifetimes. But it is also useful in discharging a topic, in that one can manipulate the time tag as an aid to getting off the final bits of charge. I found that if the topic is still charged up to a fair extent then it is impossible to shift the time, but if there is not so much remaining then shifting the event(s) around in time can be very effective in discharging the rest of the charge rapidly.

Three examples:
http://paulsrobot3.com/heavyduty/time-shift-1.htm
http://paulsrobot3.com/morph/time-options.htm
http://paulsrobot3.com/psycho/step-7o-run-through-with-different-time.htm.

Paul
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
This morning, I was thinking - Why, if the thetan is outside MEST (matter energy space and time) does he have to have past lives in sequence? Wouldn't that be agreement with an appearancy ( time )? Why couldn't my next life be earlier than the current one? Or concurrent? Is there any reason why I couldn't pick a body in any yesterday I wanted?

One of the big complaints is: where do all of the thetans come from as the planet's population continues to expand? You could be doing double or triple duty, and inhabit several bodies at once. A popular theme is that you are only using a small percentage of the brain's capacity. Perhaps the rest of you is elsewhere, or in several elsewheres or elsewhens.

Think how living non consecutive lives could be an interesting game. You gasp your last breath as and ex, pop out of your body and you think, "I am so glad I was never in the Sea Org. If I was I'd do things differently. The right way!" The next thing you know, you are being born in 1960 in Bucks County, Pennsylvania in the Philadelphia area to the Roman Catholic Polish-Italian family.... You are a smallish child, with some breathing difficulties, but start in the local gym to build yourself up, so you can take on straightening out the Sea Org.

Ha ha, you say, there is no way I am going to be him. But why couldn't you pick up a body in Viet Nam? You work in the rice patties, and one fine day you hear that your country is being overrun with these gross, overweight, obnoxious Americans, so you pick up a gun and before you know it - you are fighting in the Tet Offensive? Or you are sitting on the banks of the River Rubicon, watching Caesar pace back and forth? Or you go back to the time of your birth and pick up a body of a friend you have always admired and live a life parallel to the one you just left? Or your brother? Or parent? Or your lover?

With the loss of memory that accompanies a new life you'd never know you were on the most narcissistic life imaginable. But what if some of the knowledge from this life bled through into the next non-consecutive life? Talk about Deja vu. Or that premonition you keep having about this really big earthquake... or the one that lead you to buy stock in Microsoft when you did.

Fun, fun, fun.

Much more fun than merely dying and going forwards.

Maybe I am you in a non-consecutive life? Or you me?

Mimsey

Mims, looks like you have much more imagination than Hubbard had.

I like the idea of finding myself next time being born in a Neanderthal cave in Southern France or in a Roman villa in Germania, but I don't want to be my own grandmother, that's too confusing.
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
My current take...

There is no time track... this is illusion. And Hubbard was an illusionist.

Time should not be viewed as a 1 dimensional line..from past through now to future, this traps you in this dimension.

Time may actually be a 2 dimensional plane, (with surface features) which, when contemplated briefly (well, I thought about it for a couple hours) allows the concept of other dimensions to manifest along side this one.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
There are those who say we live many parallel lives, ie: in one universe, Mimsey Borogrove is an ex scnist, in another Mims is a ground breaking inventor, and still another, an artist, a cop, etc, etc.

Not a bad theory.
 

TheSpectator

Patron with Honors
I've got to take the thread as tongue-in-cheek. :)

If you want evidence of what Scientology will do to a person who thinks along these lines, just watch The Strange Case Of Steven Fishman on YouTube. Others have already mentioned him in this thread. Listening to him speak I hear the same things I heard from SO many Scientolgists throughout the years. It's horrible how negatively Scientology auditing affects people's grasp or reality.

All Scientology indoctrination is now open to re-inspection. I ran out various past lives incidents in auditing. But there was NEVER any objective proof that those past lives were actual. It's only subjective. That begs the question, have we lived before this life? I'm inclined to say no.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=roN9C--bg-w
 

ThetanExterior

Gold Meritorious Patron
I came to the conclusion a while ago that imagining life in this dimension as something like an onion helps to clarify the time track problem.

If each layer of the onion was a different time period then a being who was outside of the "onion" could look at it and see that all time periods are happening simultaneously. But if they entered the "onion" then they would land in one specific time period and would have the idea that there was a past and a future.

If they then left the "onion", they would see again that there is no past or future, just simultaneous time zones.

Also, if this being split itself into several parts and sent some parts into different layers of this "onion" while retaining the major part of itself outside of the "onion", they could experience life in different time zones simultaneously and upon "death" all parts would reassemble and the being would have much more knowledge and experience than it would have had if it had only lived one life.

How can this information about the "onion" be used in practical terms?

I don't know yet but when I figure it out I'll start a new religion and all you guys are welcome to join at discount rates.:coolwink:
 

Gib

Crusader
I've got to take the thread as tongue-in-cheek. :)

If you want evidence of what Scientology will do to a person who thinks along these lines, just watch The Strange Case Of Steven Fishman on YouTube. Others have already mentioned him in this thread. Listening to him speak I hear the same things I heard from SO many Scientolgists throughout the years. It's horrible how negatively Scientology auditing affects people's grasp or reality.

All Scientology indoctrination is now open to re-inspection. I ran out various past lives incidents in auditing. But there was NEVER any objective proof that those past lives were actual. It's only subjective. That begs the question, have we lived before this life? I'm inclined to say no.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=roN9C--bg-w

yah, Robert Moor mentioned it above in the tread. I listened to the first 30 minutes. Fishman knows the indoctrination material well, he was well indoctrinated and parrots off Hubbard spew exactly as Hubbard wanted a person to mock-up and believe as "certainty".

I could do a similar interview as well as many others I imagine from the viewpoint of a scientologist. Interestingly Fishman said he had only made it to "objectives" and what he learned was from the training side which also means he listened to a lot of lectures. This is why DM has people doing the "Basics" courses, to get everybody indoctrinated like Fishman was. :angry:
 
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