Are Rathbun, Rinder and all those Ex-Int Base Staff our Friends?

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
From your answer I noticed that you have not read the full sequence. here there are some clues and the specifics. ( For your info I have been SP declare 12 years ago ) 1. Int exec staff are those staff who have been at Int from 1979. From there the Bridge has been changed. OT levels have been lost and a Snr C/S Int announced the changes and the NOTs. To make sure this is fully understood LRH DID WROTE NO ISSUE, DID NOT COMMUNICATE ON TAPE OR VIDEO THAT THE BRIDGE HAS BEEN CHANGED AND THAT NOTs IS HIS. Those Int exec and staff have participate (or watched) to crash LRH family without moving a single muscle to help them. 2. (THERE IS NOT NOW NOR HAS THERE EVER BEEN "STANDARD TECH". ) This sentence is not fully correct yes from 1979 to pt in the Church there is no standard tech. 3. (LRH never developed anything that will "clear the planet." That's a myth that was never going to happen.) There are so many evidence that LRH did developed the tech . Dianetics make clear it is true that after you reach clear you can unclear yourself. That is the reason that a Clear is on an non interference zone. But you are not in danger you never will reach clear so you will not be in an non interference zone. 4. (And I don't know why you think you are in a position to say what any of them should be doing with their lives, anyway.) They can do whatever they like but is not right they pretend to do good when they are just interested on money and power and not to clear the planet. 5.(Hey, LRH couldn't clear the planet. What makes you think you know how to do it?) I noticed that you have a full knowledge that never was a standard tech without it how you can clear a planet. To clear a planet you need a standard tech. But as you know ARC,KRC, postulate, auditing Clear and OT etc etc do not exist all those that said that they had wins well they are lairs . Hey you close me when you are dead you are dead.

Hi John, let me ask you a question:

First of all, I fully understand where you are coming from with regard to Int Base people. I can totally see how you would not trust them. I don't, until they prove themselves otherwise trustworthy.

But I have a more basic question about the notion of "standard tech" itself.

Do you really think that it is possible to create a standard tech that is going to bring every single person, all these different people, to total spiritual freedom using the SAME PROCESSES and procedures?

If you think about Henry Ford, and his creation of a conveyor-belt-driven manufacturing process, this is kind of following that concept, don't you think?

Here's my question:

Does conveyor-belt technology in manufacturing have anything at all to do with individual spiritual insight and an individual's own search for spiritual knowledge and freedom?

I think this use of a Henry Ford conveyor belt manufacturing technology, or the concept of "Standard Tech", was completely unworkable and a huge mistake by LRH.

The Bridge in Scientology came out in 1962. Prior to that Scientology HAD NO BRIDGE TO TOTAL FREEDOM in it.

Think about that.

What would a Scientology with out a bridge in it look like?

Well, that's how it was for the first 12 years of its existence. All the "basic" books and all the PABs and the Routes from Creation of Human Ability came from then - a Scientology with no bridge, and no STANDARD TECH in it.

So sorry for not accepting your basic premise about standard tech itself. But I've done a lot of thinking about this. I have concluded that a unique indivual, and we are all unique individuals, can not take a conveyor belt to spiritual freedom.

There is no such thing.

And this is what I have realized about this idea of "Standard Tech".

I'd love to keep discussing this with you, if you feel you might.

Alanzo
 

George Layton

Silver Meritorious Patron
Ok let us say that there is tech (discovered by hubbard). Then one might also assume that there is Karmic debt (referred to by far more than just one person discovering it). Do you really want to tie yourself to the entire planet's Karmic debt?:omg: Maybe folks should work on self clearing (or what ever they might wish to call it) and let everyone else do the same. :yes:
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Hey Gib how many people's life have you ruined? Ex or pt Int base staff?

I totally agree with you about Int Base people ruining other peoples' lives.

This is a totally disgusting truth about Int Base staff.

By the way, I was mission staff. We had so few public, I hardly had the chance to ruin anybody's life... just kidding!!!

Alanzo
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
Hey Gib how many people's life have you ruined? Ex or pt Int base staff?

We have all ruined thousands, or maybe millions on the wholetrack.

And when you ruin a persons life, its remains ruined.

As in, a permanent state of "ruinedness". My new word.

----

How many have you ruined, John?
 

john reguerra

Patron with Honors
Hi John, let me ask you a question: First of all, I fully understand where you are coming from with regard to Int Base people. I can totally see how you would not trust them. I don't, until they prove themselves otherwise trustworthy. But I have a more basic question about the notion of "standard tech" itself. Do you really think that it is possible to create a standard tech that is going to bring every single person, all these different people, to total spiritual freedom using the SAME PROCESSES and procedures? If you think about Henry Ford, and his creation of a conveyor-belt-driven manufacturing process, this is kind of following that concept, don't you think? Here's my question: Does conveyor-belt technology in manufacturing have anything at all to do with individual spiritual insight and an individual's own search for spiritual knowledge and freedom? I think this use of a Henry Ford conveyor belt manufacturing technology, or the concept of "Standard Tech", was completely unworkable and a huge mistake by LRH. The Bridge in Scientology came out in 1962. Prior to that Scientology HAD NO BRIDGE TO TOTAL FREEDOM in it. Think about that. What would a Scientology with out a bridge in it look like? Well, that's how it was for the first 12 years of its existence. All the "basic" books and all the PABs and the Routes from Creation of Human Ability came from then - a Scientology with no bridge, and no STANDARD TECH in it. So sorry for not accepting your basic premise about standard tech itself. But I've done a lot of thinking about this. I have concluded that a unique indivual, and we are all unique individuals, can not take a conveyor belt to spiritual freedom. There is no such thing. And this is what I have realized about this idea of "Standard Tech". I'd love to keep discussing this with you, if you feel you might. Alanzo
1. ( First of all, I fully understand where you are coming from with regard to Int Base people. I can totally see how you would not trust them. I don't, until they prove themselves otherwise trustworthy.) I fully agree. 2. If we postulate that Theta works in the same way. If we postulate that reactive bank works in the same way. If we postulate that Thetans are all different and they can create what ever they want I do not see way could not exist a standard tech. 3. ( The Bridge in Scientology came out in 1962. Prior to that Scientology HAD NO BRIDGE TO TOTAL FREEDOM in it. ) At that time I do believe not all people had the same wins and many wins where temporaries. OT III case was there but not discovered yet. 4. It is my understand that OT III case has been a problem to handle. There has been many attempt to handle this key problem. has this been handled? This is the question need to be answer. What I know is that LRH has been the only one to get it started and close it to a win . Mayo develop NOTs (LRH did not issued nothing saying it is his) to handle OT III or to handle another part of the case? It is a fact that not 100% who does NOTs has wins and complete it. I asked a question in this blog "where is the Bridge?" do you know where it is?
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
John wrote:

1. ( First of all, I fully understand where you are coming from with regard to Int Base people. I can totally see how you would not trust them. I don't, until they prove themselves otherwise trustworthy.) I fully agree.

Thanks. It really is important to remember the original ideals of Scientology. And those ideals were CERTAINLY not expressed anywhere at INT Base.

2. If we postulate that Theta works in the same way. If we postulate that reactive bank works in the same way. If we postulate that Thetans are all different and they can create what ever they want I do not see way could not exist a standard tech.

Well, because thetans are different, then their agreements are going to be different. So what part of the “bank” they are stuck to are not going to be the same with every thetan. And the way they are stuck to it are also not going to be the same. This is something that I have learned from 16 years of Scientology and studying the works of Hubbard. As well as the study and practice of other practices such as Buddhism after getting out.

The uniqueness of the individual was stressed by Hubbard in the basic books when there was no Bridge. Then, after Hubbard came out with the Bridge, he said that the “bank was all the same”.

He tried to create a cost effective production line (conveyor belt) to spiritual freedom.

It may very well be that spiritual freedom is not at all cost effective for a manufacturing plant type operation.

That is certainly what I have found.

3. ( The Bridge in Scientology came out in 1962. Prior to that Scientology HAD NO BRIDGE TO TOTAL FREEDOM in it. ) At that time I do believe not all people had the same wins and many wins where temporaries. OT III case was there but not discovered yet.

Well, if you think about it, OT 3 is the first time that Hubbard broke the auditor’s code and evaluated for the preclear, telling them what they should think about their case, and what incidents they should run.

How is that “standard tech”?

4. It is my understand that OT III case has been a problem to handle. There has been many attempt to handle this key problem. has this been handled? This is the question need to be answer. What I know is that LRH has been the only one to get it started and close it to a win . Mayo develop NOTs (LRH did not issued nothing saying it is his) to handle OT III or to handle another part of the case? It is a fact that not 100% who does NOTs has wins and complete it.

These are questions I can’t answer.

I asked a question in this blog "where is the Bridge?" do you know where it is?

There are many versions of the Bridge. And each version that Hubbard issued he said was THE ONE – before he changed it again.

If you have done the BC, as I have done most of, you would know how many times Hubbard declared “THIS IS STANDARD TECH!” only to change it again and again, each time declaring "THIS IS STANDARD TECH!”

Really. I’m not just trying to run Scientology and Hubbard down. I am using Logic 8 which states that “A datum can be evaluated only by a datum of comparable magnitude.”

Use data of comparable magnitude to Hubbard’s statements to evaluate Hubbard’s statements. This requires you to go OUTSIDE of Scientology for statements to compare to things INSIDE of Scientology.

That is per standard Scientology, right?

This is what I have found to be the most help in my understanding of Scientology.

I know what you are trying to do. I understand your contempt for Int Base - it's the same one I have. Scientology became completely corrupt from its original ideals by the time Int Base was created.

I believe that a person should seek to live with the truth. That's what got me in to Scientology, and it is what got me out of Scientology, too.

Sometimes, seeking to live with the truth becomes very uncomfortable.

But that discomfort is only temporary.

Seeking to live with the truth always leads to greater freedom.

Alanzo
 
Last edited:

Gib

Crusader
Hey Gib how many people's life have you ruined? Ex or pt Int base staff?

I was never Int base staff. I joined the SO and blew about one week later, maybe two weeks.

I then got a job, and chilled out for about a year as I considered at the time I was declared "SP".

And I blew fully knowing I was to be declared "SP", and figured I could do the A-E steps to get back in good standing.

So after I blew I got a job, got back on my feet, and recovered myself back into good graces with the church.

Turns out I was not declared and did not have to do A-E and got myself recovered to go back on staff at the org from which I originated joining the SO.

So I went back on staff at the org to finish my contract, and thus have no freeloader debt.

Well, that didn't go well, as the joint was still nuts, but I had in my mind that the tech was flawless and people were just not applying it correctly. So I routed off of staff properly, instead of blowing, with a freeloader debt and become public again.

So I got a job again and still had the freeloader debt, and I got married to a scientologist. And after some time, we adjudicated the freeloader debt was rather high, so we as a married couple agreed for me to go back on staff to complete the contract, thus getting rid of the freeloader debt. Which I did for 2 years. And my wife supported this effort, she made more money and she could support us. Althought I did work on the side to help bring in some income. She also some business issues but we worked thru them, an adventure it was.

During my staff time I never "ruined" anybody. I never got in ethics trouble and was well liked by staff and public. The only time I got into ethics trouble was because I blew, and that was because the joint became nutso and I couldn't stand it anymore. Hardly survivng but yet reading PL's on how staff and the tech is perfect and we are to be surviving.

I did have a nice career before joining staff, but I fell for the homo novis concept, and forgo'd my career since I thought I was helping to create a "clear planet".

So what I write is my mindset at the time.

My comment to Smurf, was more of the same mindset one might have but if one was deeply involved at the Int Base level. I just went into the mindset of if one was deeply convinced of hubbard's tech at Int level. And how can I do this, well when I was on staff I was pretty gung ho about it all, so I can imagine it at the Int level at the base magnified 20 times, anything goes plus one wouldn't see the results of what one did.
 

john reguerra

Patron with Honors
Hi John, let me ask you a question: First of all, I fully understand where you are coming from with regard to Int Base people. I can totally see how you would not trust them. I don't, until they prove themselves otherwise trustworthy. But I have a more basic question about the notion of "standard tech" itself. Do you really think that it is possible to create a standard tech that is going to bring every single person, all these different people, to total spiritual freedom using the SAME PROCESSES and procedures? If you think about Henry Ford, and his creation of a conveyor-belt-driven manufacturing process, this is kind of following that concept, don't you think? Here's my question: Does conveyor-belt technology in manufacturing have anything at all to do with individual spiritual insight and an individual's own search for spiritual knowledge and freedom? I think this use of a Henry Ford conveyor belt manufacturing technology, or the concept of "Standard Tech", was completely unworkable and a huge mistake by LRH. The Bridge in Scientology came out in 1962. Prior to that Scientology HAD NO BRIDGE TO TOTAL FREEDOM in it. Think about that. What would a Scientology with out a bridge in it look like? Well, that's how it was for the first 12 years of its existence. All the "basic" books and all the PABs and the Routes from Creation of Human Ability came from then - a Scientology with no bridge, and no STANDARD TECH in it. So sorry for not accepting your basic premise about standard tech itself. But I've done a lot of thinking about this. I have concluded that a unique indivual, and we are all unique individuals, can not take a conveyor belt to spiritual freedom. There is no such thing. And this is what I have realized about this idea of "Standard Tech". I'd love to keep discussing this with you, if you feel you might. Alanzo
OK. How to answer all this bull so you and others see it bull and s.... 1. What it is the purpose of a Being to join the Sea Org.? (a). To put ethics in and clear the planet? or (b). To alter the Tech so that the planet cannot be clear no matter what. 2. If the answer it is (1a) (I am not asking here if the tech works) and you see that the I/C , the boss the supreme authority of the Church is not applying the basic Scientology Technology to Clear the planet what you do? If you have the purpose to put ethics in and clear the planet. You remove the I/C , the boss the supreme authority of the Church which is not in alignment with to put ethics in and clear the planet. But this has not been done so those Int staff and Ex-Int base staff agreed with the I/C , the boss the supreme authority of the Church and helped him to acquire more power so the purpose to alter the Tech so that the planet cannot be clear no matter what can be achieved. Ex-Int staff now attack the supreme authority of the Church as the only one responsible of altering the Tech so that the planet cannot be clear no matter what. But they have not-iss that he (the I/C , the boss the supreme authority of the Church) would not had acquired the power to do it if they did not give him their support. Int Staff (excluding no one) have contributed to alter the Tech so that the planet cannot be clear no matter what. Ex Int staff now out from Int Base are not doing the basic purpose of a SO Member (to put ethics in and clear the planet). No Sir. You really need to listen and understand what propaganda they (the ex-Int staff )are doing in PT. What they are saying is that theirs own altered Tech is not working. One of those "Authorities" ( Having been at Int and RTC gives you authority) is saying that a new tech is needed especially OT levels. And if you have done for real any OT levels you notice without any comm lag that those Int and ex-Int staff have not achieved the EPs of any OT Levels what so ever. To give you some clue I asked where it is the Bridge not for myself but to know if you know where it is or have done the Bridge. I hope that who is looking to go up the Bridge understand what I am saying and hope that apply the data series to understand what is going on. For those who think that is all a con. Please study some basic apply them for real. For those that wanted altered Tech so that the planet cannot be clear no matter what. Sorry you failed. Have a nice day.
 

Dave B.

Maximus Ultimus Mostimus
OK. How to answer all this bull so you and others see it bull and s.... 1. What it is the purpose of a Being to join the Sea Org.? (a). To put ethics in and clear the planet? or (b). To alter the Tech so that the planet cannot be clear no matter what. 2. If the answer it is (1a) (I am not asking here if the tech works) and you see that the I/C , the boss the supreme authority of the Church is not applying the basic Scientology Technology to Clear the planet what you do? If you have the purpose to put ethics in and clear the planet. You remove the I/C , the boss the supreme authority of the Church which is not in alignment with to put ethics in and clear the planet. But this has not been done so those Int staff and Ex-Int base staff agreed with the I/C , the boss the supreme authority of the Church and helped him to acquire more power so the purpose to alter the Tech so that the planet cannot be clear no matter what can be achieved. Ex-Int staff now attack the supreme authority of the Church as the only one responsible of altering the Tech so that the planet cannot be clear no matter what. But they have not-iss that he (the I/C , the boss the supreme authority of the Church) would not had acquired the power to do it if they did not give him their support. Int Staff (excluding no one) have contributed to alter the Tech so that the planet cannot be clear no matter what. Ex Int staff now out from Int Base are not doing the basic purpose of a SO Member (to put ethics in and clear the planet). No Sir. You really need to listen and understand what propaganda they (the ex-Int staff )are doing in PT. What they are saying is that theirs own altered Tech is not working. One of those "Authorities" ( Having been at Int and RTC gives you authority) is saying that a new tech is needed especially OT levels. And if you have done for real any OT levels you notice without any comm lag that those Int and ex-Int staff have not achieved the EPs of any OT Levels what so ever. To give you some clue I asked where it is the Bridge not for myself but to know if you know where it is or have done the Bridge. I hope that who is looking to go up the Bridge understand what I am saying and hope that apply the data series to understand what is going on. For those who think that is all a con. Please study some basic apply them for real. For those that wanted altered Tech so that the planet cannot be clear no matter what. Sorry you failed. Have a nice day.



Anyone who feels they NEED to "Clear the Planet" for any reason is delusional at best and dangerous at worst.

"...utopia seems like an insubstantial dream - the idealism of the inexperienced versus the richness of reality." - Les Visible
 

john reguerra

Patron with Honors
Ok let us say that there is tech (discovered by hubbard). Then one might also assume that there is Karmic debt (referred to by far more than just one person discovering it). Do you really want to tie yourself to the entire planet's Karmic debt?:omg: Maybe folks should work on self clearing (or what ever they might wish to call it) and let everyone else do the same. :yes:
OK George. I see the point. Lets pretend, you want make sure that no one of your enemies will makes any trouble to you and your friends for ever. You will work the midnight oil to make sure that this will happen. You may do this trap very complicated. You may re-do the same trap many times. You may increase the power that more than one being is needed to overcame it. Lets pretend that this really happened. If you want really your enemy out of your life for good you do not want he escape the trap by himself. A wounded person needs a doctor to save his life.
 

john reguerra

Patron with Honors
We have all ruined thousands, or maybe millions on the wholetrack. And when you ruin a persons life, its remains ruined. As in, a permanent state of "ruinedness". My new word. ---- How many have you ruined, John?
I prefer not to say about past life crimes. This life. For my knowledge none.
 

john reguerra

Patron with Honors
Hi John, let me ask you a question: So sorry for not accepting your basic premise about standard tech itself. But I've done a lot of thinking about this. I have concluded that a unique indivual, and we are all unique individuals, can not take a conveyor belt to spiritual freedom. There is no such thing. And this is what I have realized about this idea of "Standard Tech". I'd love to keep discussing this with you, if you feel you might. Alanzo
There is not really anything to discuss. 50% of Scientology is application. The question is: works? If not find out why. That is it. 50% of any subject is its application. This does not work only for Scientology Technology. It is so simple. Technology of building, driving, cooking, studying.
 
Top