Are the OT Levels Permanent?

Cat's Squirrel

Gold Meritorious Patron
:clap: Thank you!! :clap:

Have to say I agree. My inability to swallow this sort of stuff is probably why I didn't do well on the OT levels. I believe the spirit is always free and so can't be "trapped" anywhere.

And think about it; if the spirit were "trapped", how could you ever free yourself, even with Scn or another spiritual technology? There has to be something senior to what is trapped to free it, and the thetan is supposedly one's ultimate reality.
 

Pixie

Crusader
Have to say I agree. My inability to swallow this sort of stuff is probably why I didn't do well on the OT levels. I believe the spirit is always free and so can't be "trapped" anywhere.

And think about it; if the spirit were "trapped", how could you ever free yourself, even with Scn or another spiritual technology? There has to be something senior to what is trapped to free it, and the thetan is supposedly one's ultimate reality.

:clap: Thank You!! :clap:
 

Feral

Rogue male
Sorry, I didn't make myself clear on this. If you were reading that bulletin and had already bought into the idea that you were OT (despite all evidence to the contrary) or would go OT on your next step :eyeroll: the datum might help rationalise why you saw no OTness in others on The Bridge. :duh:

Stoopid, I know, but I'm sure that type of consideration is going on in the Church all the time.



L. Kin talks a little about this in one of his books (Pied Pier?) in terms of the GE. IIRC, he says there is a GE pool of theta for each species.

I have some time for the theory you mention here. However, over time, perhaps the larger being withdraws and the animated elements go forward with some brand of self-determinism or automaticity.

I'm finding it hard to articulate these ideas clearly. Apologies.

I gotcha!, (now)

I also think there could be something in the pool of theta theory, and yeh, it is meant to persist with some sort of (low order?) self determinism, .....but it would have to be mocked up by a real OT....with god the like power to create life!!

I feel that once there were such beings, and scientology was a bogus route to those states.

I can only hope, eh?
 

Tanstaafl

Crusader
I gotcha!, (now)

I also think there could be something in the pool of theta theory, and yeh, it is meant to persist with some sort of (low order?) self determinism, .....but it would have to be mocked up by a real OT....with god the like power to create life!!

I feel that once there were such beings, and scientology was a bogus route to those states.

I can only hope, eh?

I know what you mean Feral.
There's nothing wrong with hope so long as it's not being used as a life-jacket. :)

I've had some odd little snippets of (apparent) insight in this area after sessions, but people think I'm weird enough as it is, so I'll say no more. :eyeroll:
 

asagai

Patron Meritorious
Have to say I agree. My inability to swallow this sort of stuff is probably why I didn't do well on the OT levels. I believe the spirit is always free and so can't be "trapped" anywhere.

And think about it; if the spirit were "trapped", how could you ever free yourself, even with Scn or another spiritual technology? There has to be something senior to what is trapped to free it, and the thetan is supposedly one's ultimate reality.

I agree Cat.

Hubbard tried to limit each of us down to a "thing" an "it" which he called a "thetan". Having promised us "spiritual freedom" Hubbard had to create the opposite - "spiritual entrapment" in order to forward his money-making cult and fulfill his affirmation:- "By hypnosis I must be convinced as follows: [...] You will never forget these incantations. They are holy and are now become an integral part of your nature. .... Material things are yours for the asking. Men are your slaves. Elemental spirits are your slaves. You are power among powers, light in the darkness, beauty in all." http://carolineletkeman.org/sp/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=50&Itemid=5

This is his self-hynosis that OTIII was born out of.

The only thing trapping us was Hubbard! :omg: So long as we bought into his trap, which he called the Upper Levels of Scientology, he had us trapped and "thing-ed".

This is the fundamental illogicality of Scn which he sidestepped with sleight of hand tricks like the references Paul used to pull up, as course supervisor, to explain away this contradiction.

He actually pulled off this magic trick, of a free untrappable being being trapped, on us several times on our journey over the "Bridge to Total Freedom"

  • In Dianetics, the reactive mind is unconcious, but a person can become aware of it with an auditor's guidance and several paid intensives
  • In Scientology, the unknown barriers to freedom to communicate, freedom from problems, etc can be exposed with an auditor's commands
  • In R6 and the CC the final barriers to becoming free and clear can be overcome with these expensive courses
  • The reason for overwhelm that nobody has successfully confronted can now be faced thanks to Ron's noble efforts
  • The final barriers to being "at cause over life" can be removed with NOTs

He didn't scam us once, but over and over again with the logical contradiction of a spiritually free no-thing being trapped by things.

Our mistake was agreeing with him! :duh:
 

sandygirl

Silver Meritorious Patron
Ok here's my bottom line on this BT nonsense. This was my "hidden standard" for OT's.

Supposidly, these guys have a good reality on the whole track, KNOW we have a brief moment to save our future with COS. blah, blah, blah

NOW think back to when OT's were coming back to the ORG after their levels. HOW MANY gave up their cars, jobs, vacations, houses, etc. TO WORK TIRELESSLY for the salvation of this planet. Did you REALLY see a difference. These guys still had to be regged and pushed like crazy!!!!!!!!!

Free of the BTS or not-did anyone really say-OMG the end is near-get your rear in gear!!! No they continued mowing their lawns , going to the ball game, etc. Don't even get me started on the celebs with their movies, soap operas, sicoms, and diet plans. I don't have all of the tech. training (although I am positive LRH said quite clearly a thetan has no location, mass, etc, so there is nothing to be stuck to) but the bottem line is....there is little change in these guys to be seen by their actions!!!!!!
 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Ok here's my bottom line on this BT nonsense. This was my "hidden standard" for OT's.

Supposidly, these guys have a good reality on the whole track, KNOW we have a brief moment to save our future with COS. blah, blah, blah

NOW think back to when OT's were coming back to the ORG after their levels. HOW MANY gave up their cars, jobs, vacations, houses, etc. TO WORK TIRELESSLY for the salvation of this planet. Did you REALLY see a difference. These guys still had to be regged and pushed like crazy!!!!!!!!!

Free of the BTS or not-did anyone really say-OMG the end is near-get your rear in gear!!! No they continued mowing their lawns , going to the ball game, etc. Don't even get me started on the celebs with their movies, soap operas, sicoms, and diet plans. I don't have all of the tech. training (although I am positive LRH said quite clearly a thetan has no location, mass, etc, so there is nothing to be stuck to) but the bottem line is....there is little change in these guys to be seen by their actions!!!!!!


I'd love to see your bottom line.

Could you post a pic of it for us?

Thanks.
 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Just wait till Pixie sees my beautiful apostrophe. She'll be my lover girl for life!!
 

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
I know what you mean Feral.
There's nothing wrong with hope so long as it's not being used as a life-jacket. :)

I've had some odd little snippets of (apparent) insight in this area after sessions, but people think I'm weird enough as it is, so I'll say no more. :eyeroll:

Weird enough!

You gone way beyond enough! :yes:
 

paradox

ab intra silentio vera
....

After learning of all this, certain questions came to me, the main one being:

Are the OT levels permanent? ....

Axiom142

They are described as being "states." Any state or condition, by definition can not be permanent (i.e. absolute). And stability is also only a relative, impermanent condition. Wishes and hopes notwithstanding.
 
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