Are Theosophy and Rudolf Steiner Ron's Sources?

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
It is humid and hot in Florida in August. The flea cycle has just begun over again. Many pets not allowed inside and suffer in this heat. Many more cats taken to the humane society in the summer months...such is what I've observed. I do capture and release (spay/neuters.) Anyone have natural solutions for fleas on pets or in the yard. The Advantage II is expensive on 18 cats.

Thank you for this, I love cat people. :)

Diatomaceous earth (not the pool-grade kind) sprinkled around your place is supposed to help, and it's non-toxic to humans, plants and animals. I think it's meant more for using indoors though, as rain will probably wash it away.

You can purchase a worm called a nematode from some garden stores and release those in your yard. They eat flea larvae.

If I think of anything else I will let you know! :)
 

uncover

Gold Meritorious Patron
Please note. Steiner was never a member of OTO.
.....
There is no evidence that Rudolf Steiner ever accepted anything from Theodor Reuss with the sole exception of Reuss's permission to use the term "Misraim". There exists no evidence nor any documentation which made Steiner a member of the Ordo Templi Orientis.
In discussing this topic seriously, one has to be aware that Blavatsky and Crowley both were members of the Golden Dawn and knew each other well:

http://hermetic.com/dionysos/dzyan.htm
Crowley recognized Blavatsky as a Sister of A\A\ (i.e. a Master of the Temple 8°=3# in his system of spiritual grades), specifically pointing her out as his immediate predecessor in "The Temple of Truth," published in The Heart of the Master through O.T.O. in 1938. He thought it especially noteworthy that he was born in the same year that the Theosophical Society was inaugurated. Crowley reissued Blavatsky's Voice of the Silence (Extracts from the Book of the Golden Precepts, including "The Two Paths" and "The Seven Portals") with his own commentary as Liber LXXI, a Class B publication of A\A\.
While Crowley boasted that O.T.O. was "the first of the great Old Aeon orders to accept the Law of Thelema," he evidently hoped that the Theosophical Society might be the second. In his Confessions, he claimed that the publication of Liber LXXI in the eleventh number of The Equinox was intended "to bring back Theosophists to the true principles of their founder." Some correspondence of Crowley's promoting himself as the Theosophical "World Teacher" has been published in The Scarlet Letter, Vol. II, No. 4. He also briefly attempted to recruit Katherine Tingley, a leader of the American section that seceded from the international T.S. after Blavatsky's death.
It is evident, that Steiner was the german branch of Blavatsky´s theosophy before he started his own "anthroposophy" - which has a lot in common with Blavatsky´s theosophy.

The connection between Hubbard and Crowley´s mindset is also well known.

That Crowley was influenced by the Golden Dawn and Blavatsky should be obvious.

What Hubbard exactly took from whom should not be as important as the fact that it was not his invention.

BTW, Blavatsky probably was the first to introduce reincarnation into spiritualism. Blavatsky also introduced evolution into reincarnation by saying people were reincarnated as people, not randomly switching incarnations between animals and people as in the version reincarnation was taught by eastern religions like hinduism and bhuddism.
 

Krautfag

Patron Meritorious
It is evident, that Steiner was the german branch of Blavatsky´s theosophy before he started his own "anthroposophy" - which has a lot in common with Blavatsky´s theosophy.

Anthroposophy basically is theosophy.
Steiner and most of the German theosophists broke away from the Theosophical Society when Annie Besant took over after the death of Blavatsky and started introducing Krishnamurti as new messiah.
 

Truth&Honesty

Patron with Honors
In discussing this topic seriously, one has to be aware that Blavatsky and Crowley both were members of the Golden Dawn and knew each other well:] http://hermetic.com/dionysos/dzyan.htm



Hi Undercover,

Just wanted to point out that Crowley was born on Oct 12, 1875 and would have been a boy of only 15 y/o when Blavatsky died on May 8, 1891. In those last couple of years, she was very ill and, for all intents and purposes, homebound.

I have never heard of her belonging to the Golden Dawn. There were a few theosophists who did leave the society, and subsequently joined the Golden Dawn. Crowley became interested in the occult after 1895- from his friendship with A.E.Waite, who was a member of GD.

I don't think Crowley ever met Blavatsky, although he, like many others (Yeats, Edison, Einstein,etc...) recognized her value and contributions.

At one time, he did have a short-lived fantasy about usurping control of the Theosophical Society, and claiming to be its new world teacher. This was undoubtedly a manifestation of his illicit drug use, overblown ego, and eventual insanity. No one at the TS wanted to have anything to do with him, as his wild antics and public self proclaimation of being the Beast666, had been widely publicized by the British papers, and he was a social outcast in most circles.
 
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Hatshepsut

Crusader
Scroll down to 1888 on the timeline:
Blavatsky refused any of her group to be a member of also another escoteric order. Crowley was introduced to HOGD in 1898 and had an eventual falling out with MacGregor Mathers. The Beast was beginning to shit where he ate and it got Crowley legal problems as well as scandals of immorality. As he was bringing bad PR and disgrace to the order, Crowley was refused a pass into second order initiate status on the basis that he was morally unfit. Crowley had been well coached in his occult accomplishments by Bennett who was lodging with Crowley for financial reasons and in return imparted all his own advanced escoteric secrets as well as those of their order. Bennett was also a bit of a Sufi.
(Perdurabo)

Crowley attempted to gain this second initiation through now a different lodge. The infighting over who was in charge of the rules governing all of the lodges caused a mess. The coppers and the magistrates got involved. Mathers ended up safe as the head. Crowley played dirty trying to break in and steal paperwork on sacred cyphers. He lost in the end. He had the advantage of a large inheritance from his family so was able to always land on his feet.

Crowley caused issues by betraying Mathers who was busy with an inner order scuffle over the validity of the Secret Chiefs actually communicating with him. Crowley started his own order Argentum Astrum in 1907.

Click this link to see history and evolution to what exists now.

http://www.golden-dawn.com/en/displaycontent.aspx?pageid=71-

1888
Anna Kingsford (Annie Bonus) passes.
Papus' Traité Elémentaire de Science Occulte is published.
Golden Dawn:
1 March - The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn is founded in London using the Cypher Manuscripts obtained from Kenneth MacKenzie. Isis-Urania Temple No. 3. (The first two were MacKenzie's and Irwin's temples of the Society of Eight) The first initiate is Mina Bergson (Vestigia nulla retrorsum - "Vestigia") . She later becomes Moina Mathers.
12 February - Dr. William Wynn Westcott (Sapere Aude - S.A. - originally Non Omnis Moriar), Dr. William Robert Woodman (Magna es Veritas - M.V.), and Samuel Liddell Mathers ('S Rioghail Mo Dhream - S.R.M.D.) sign the Order of H.O.G.D. pledge.
October - Helena P. Blavatsky launches the Esoteric Section of the Theosophical Society. Membership in other Hermetic organizations is forbidden. Rev. William Alexander Ayton (Virtue orta, occidunt rarius - V.O.O.R.) initially writes to some of his Yorkshire colleagues, and they launch a protest over Blavatsky's refusal to allow membership in other organizations. The requirement is dropped, though approval must be had from Annie Besant.
Isabelle de Steiger (Alta Pero - A.P.) enters the H.O.G.D.
8 October - H.O.G.D. Temple No. 4 Osiris at Weston Super-Mare is founded by Benjamin Cox (Crux dat salutem - C.D.S.), a freemason, and associate of Westcott's from the days when he was a pharmacist. The Osiris temple never has more than 12 members, then goes into decline within two years, and ceases to exist in 1895 after Benjamin Cox dies.
11 October - Westcott (S.A.) makes a reference to the H.O.G.D. at a meeting of the Metropolitan College of the S.R.I.A. in which he refers to Woodford as a member.
19 October - H.O.G.D. Temple No. 5, Horus, at Bradford, chartered by T.H. Pattinson ( Vota vita mea - V.V.M.) a watchmaker at Baildon in Yorkshire.

1889
Mathers' edition of Key of Solomon is published.
Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn:
February - 60 members join Temple No. 3, Isis-Urania before this date. Isis-Urania meets at Mark Masons' Hall
9 February - First public reference to the H.O.G.D. appears in Notes and Queries, in the Theosophical Society Periodical Lucifer. The reference is in response to a letter asking about a "School of Qabalah" - It can be assumed that the letter was written by Westcott (S.A.), probably in response to a query he placed himself.
May - Dr. Edward Berridge (Resurgam) joins the H.O.G.D.
10 September - Moina Mathers (Vestigia) is listed as 5=6, a full year before any regular Second Order initiations will be performed.
 
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uncover

Gold Meritorious Patron
In discussing this topic seriously, one has to be aware that Blavatsky and Crowley both were members of the Golden Dawn and knew each other well:
Sorry for the misleading (my first language is not english), when I wanted to edit this sentence, it was too late (edit not allowed anymore). It should read correctly:
In discussing this topic seriously, one has to be aware that Blavatsky and Crowley both were members of the Golden Dawn and Crowley knew the work of Blavatsky very well:
Evidence that Crowley was influenced profoundly by Blavatsky´s teaching can be found in Crowleys "Magick" and Blavatsky´s "Secret Doctrine".

What I wanted to point out is what I already wrote:

"What Hubbard exactly took from whom should not be as important as the fact that it was not his invention."

Hubbard only took over already existing concepts. The roots trace back at least through Crowley to Blavatsky and to the Golden Dawn (from there to masonry which itself has the roots in ancient egyptian and mesopotamian cultures - but I don´t want to write a book here). The Golden Dawn attracted people who were either dissatisfied with traditional, christianized, masonic teachings, or unwilling to accept oriental concepts filtered through the prism of Blavatsky's Theosophical Society. Crowley was influenced by both.
 
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Hatshepsut

Crusader
'Creative' processing with mockups?? Huh.

http://mishkan-ha-echad.blogspot.com/2008/09/israel-regardie-on-initiation.html?m=1

Israel Regardie on the Initiation Ceremonies




"From one point of view the officers employed in these Rituals represent just such psychic projections. They represent, even as figures in dreams do, different aspects of man himself - personifications of abstract psychological principles inhering within the human spirit. Through the admittedly artificial or conventional means of a dramatic projection of these personified principles in a well-ordered ceremony a reaction is induced in consciousness. This reaction is calculated to arouse from their dormant condition those hitherto latent faculties represented objectively in the Temple of Initiation by the officers. Without the least conscious effort on the part of the aspirant, an involuntary current of sympathy is produced by this external delineation of spiritual paths which may be sufficient to accomplish the purpose of the initiation ceremony. The aesthetic appeal to the imagination - quite apart from what could be called the intrinsic magical virtue with which the G.D. documents Z.1 and Z.3 deal at some length - stirs to renewed activity the life of the inner domain. And the entire action of this type of dramatic ritual is that the soul may discover itself exalted to the heights, and during that mystical elevation receive the rushing forth of the Light."

Or maybe not. Click link for retort to this.
At reply.....below the above quoted post.... on the blog.
http://mishkan-ha-echad.blogspot.com/2008/09/israel-regardie-on-initiation.html?m=1
 
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Wants2Talk

Silver Meritorious Patron
I submit that Steiner, as evidenced in may ways and actions, for example, by his Philosophy of Freedom, was not seduced by the Dark Side as Blavatsky, Cowley, and Hubbard were.

Also Swedenborg, who predates theses folks by a generation should not be overlooked. I see him (my opinion) as another good guy.
 
That's IT, Hattsy!!! :happydance: :biggrin:

Being able to discern the difference in who we are reading, studying, following, and allowing to influence our thoughts and attitudes is up to us! :thumbsup:

Light or darkness? "By their fruits, ye shall know them!" :yes:

* I can't believe I just quoted the Bible here...I think I need to go lay down and take a nap! :blush: :innocent: :look: :giggle:
 

Gadfly

Crusader
:happydance:

Hear, hear!

Some folks want the Heart of the Christos and others want to control the Vril.

And, what we want and what we concentrate upon changes as we "grow".

I remember reading about the Kabbalistic Tree of Life in various texts, and meditating/contemplating upon each of the sephira. At first I was confused, but I came to understand these various "centers" as a concise "map" of key basic qualities of Man and the Universe.

When younger I was attracted to the qualities and energies of "power", "concentration", and "a firm will", but as I got older, I became more interested in some of the others that involved understanding and love.

In fact, these days, I don't even think in terms of the Kabbalistic Tree of Life. It was just one of many "models" that I entertained as I moved through life.
 

Wants2Talk

Silver Meritorious Patron
That's IT, Hattsy!!! :happydance: :biggrin:

Being able to discern the difference in who we are reading, studying, following, and allowing to influence our thoughts and attitudes is up to us! :thumbsup:

Light or darkness? "By their fruits, ye shall know them!" :yes:

* I can't believe I just quoted the Bible here...I think I need to go lay down and take a nap! :blush: :innocent: :look: :giggle:

http://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=A0oG7hQBfjJQp2kAeONXNyoA?ei=UTF-8&p=waldorf+school&fr2=tab-web&fr=yfp-t-553-s


The link above references various Waldorf School videos from around the world. Take your pick. These heart worming, inspiring clips give me hope for the future.
 

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
It is humid and hot in Florida in August. The flea cycle has just begun over again. Many pets not allowed inside and suffer in this heat. Many more cats taken to the humane society in the summer months...such is what I've observed. I do capture and release (spay/neuters.) Anyone have natural solutions for fleas on pets or in the yard. The Advantage II is expensive on 18 cats.

Boric acid (borax) sprinkled on the carpets works great. It's a dessicant and dries them & the eggs up.
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
Light or darkness? "By their fruits, ye shall know them!" :yes:

* I can't believe I just quoted the Bible here...I think I need to go lay down and take a nap! :blush: :innocent: :look: :giggle:

:laugh: :laugh: :hysterical: :hysterical:

Yah, maybe have a laydown. The idea of YOU preaching gospel from a pulpit sends me into a fit of giggles...

woman_preacher.jpg
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
Boric acid (borax) sprinkled on the carpets works great. It's a dessicant and dries them & the eggs up.

Boric acid is NOT Borax. Borax is sodium tetraborate with the formula
Na2B4O7·10H2O and is very alkaline whereas boric acid is mildly acidic and has the formula H3BO3. The B in boric acid is for the element Boron, not to be confused with the contraction for boring moron that has a similar spelling.

Pete
 

Cat's Squirrel

Gold Meritorious Patron
I've had some contact with Steiner and anthroposophy though I've never claimed to be an expert. I did a Saturday morning art course at a Rudolf Steiner college and believe I got something out of it, and also had some treatment at an anthroposophical medical practice (where I developed a hopeless case of infatuation on the Italian doctor treating me, but lets not go there).

I hope this doesn't upset anyone but once I discovered the White Eagle books in my local library (which cover very similar, theosophical ground to Steiner) and started going to White Eagle services, I lost all interest in reading Steiner. I found him very humourless (in fact he's entirely without humour as far as I can see) and hard going by comparison to the White Eagle books, which I thought were lovely.
 

Cat's Squirrel

Gold Meritorious Patron
I think I should also mention that one person who has tried to look at how Steiner's work fits in with the overall scheme of things is Ulrich Kramer, author of the L. Kin books which I think are worth a look.
 
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