ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at

Arnie Lerma's Work Restored

Discussion in 'Great Web Sites and Links' started by Watchful Navigator, Aug 31, 2019.

  1. exexex

    exexex Patron

  2. exexex

    exexex Patron

    here is the text from the facebook post link
    "So this is doing the rounds. I didn’t get a copy as I’ve had Ginger Sugarman blocked since she handed Arnie’s life’s work to OSA and no doubt passed along the full caché of my personal PMs to him before he died (a lot of good stuff by the way! Including how Arnie thought Ginger was already on OSA’s payroll). If she’s only on step ‘B’ I dread to think what’s she’s intending to do on step ‘C’. For those who have misplaced sympathies, do realise in her eyes we’re the enemy now to be destroyed at all costs. Bye Ginger. Sorry not sorry and good luck with whatever is left of your sanity and morality (did I mention money?)
    Incidentally, anyone who knew Arnie well should consider any personal information shared is now OSA intel on all of us."
  3. exexex

    exexex Patron

    Scott: just curious how did you obtain all of Arnie's data if it was all put into scientologies hands recently and all of it was turned over to him

    she was sending the A&E and all that to a person named "scott"
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
    Tanchi likes this.
  4. exexex

    exexex Patron


  5. Lurker5

    Lurker5 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Wow. In a really tragic way (Ginger going back) . . . :oops:
  6. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Yeh. Even without the awful incident, Ginger was, IMO, not a stable personality and has a variety of other problems. She didn't strike me as the OSA type in the least, btw. She really could have used some professional counseling but still hung tight to the scn tenets against it. So did Arnie.

    It's a good example of the long-term tragedy of scn; those who still believe and desperately need psychological help but the terror against professional help instilled by Scn keeps them from getting it. Ugh. what an ending.

    SO glad that Arnie's Lermanet site was saved, though. :winner:
    Type4_PTS, Xenu Xenu Xenu and Leland like this.
  7. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    @Watchful Navigator
    Yeah, what's going on, Scott? From what I've seen you've been a non-CofS Scientologist for maybe 10 years. But here it seems Ginger is doing A-E with the CofS, yet passing on Arnie's stuff to you.

  8. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    I think the OP's posted letters give some of this info.... @exexex

    Its possible that the sites were just copied from Way Back Machine? ( or similar service)
  9. tesseract

    tesseract Patron with Horrors

    That sucks mightily. :gaah: Three things are concerning in particular:

    1) Any personal communications many people had with Arnie might now be in the hands of CoS too.

    2) If (big "if") not only the domain but also the rights to Arnie's intellectual property have been handed over to CoS, this could mean that from now on they have the legal rights to prevent any of it from getting added to the internet archive.
    They then probably also have (limited) means to threaten whoever sets the materials online.
    Now,... consider that most of his materials is decades old, and CoS, as dysfunctional and chaotic as it is, does seem to tend to focus on actual current (perceived or real) "threats" with its harassment and PIs and sleazy lawyer letters (and killing pets). If they actually start going after people who are webbing the contents of Lermanet, this would, admittedly, make even a not very tinfoilily inclined person like me tend to think that not only CoS, or other cults for that matter, have a vested interest that some of the materials that he webbed, gets suppressed. That could concern materials on hypnosis, psy ops, government involvement and corruption, that sort of thing. :rubeyes: I mean, it would be ... interesting ... if they try that.

    3) As others already noted (at the Underground Bunker, I think), sadly Ginger might not even be able to stay in touch and have a real relationship with her disconnected family members. More likely there will be or was a superficial reunion, and from then on it will all slowly or swiftly go downhill again because worlds are colliding and eventually the culties will disconnect again in a hissy fit, and it was all for naught. I wouldn't want to be in her shoes when that happens... :duh:
  10. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    I've had some personal communications with Arnie in the months before he died. But in my case I hope OSA did read some of the things that were written. It might cause them to head for the exit door. :D

    Their attempts to suppress information in the past didn't always go so well (due to the Streisand effect), sometimes resulting in nuclear-tipped foot-bullets. Whether they've learned their lesson in that regard though remains to be seen.
    Churchill, Lurker5, Leland and 2 others like this.
  11. tesseract

    tesseract Patron with Horrors

    smug fox.jpg
  12. I used a March 27, 2018 capture of all data on Arnie's sites at that time. $cientology as OSA, may or may not have been given the password to the website - but whomever it was, it probably was not Ginger herself, unless she was given explicit directions, since it takes some know-how to clean out all the files permanently for an established website.

    As a note, anyone else should be able to mirror the site from any chosen date, and I gave the Wayback Machine link in my original post above.

    (If you don't have a site, I would ask you not contact me, but do your own research about how easy it would be once you know it can be done. If you do or once you do have a domain and site ready to go, I would be happy to hear from you and help you get the material to put your own mirror up.)

    The more the better.

    Paul - did you read my 3-page attachment as a notarized affidavit?

    I would not have had to write all that, if Ginger had cooperated in passing the site to me.

    We were talking about that very thing late March of this year, but she wouldn't do it. I had always held open a communication line for her in case we might be able to resolve some recovery of Arnie's work, or to answer anything that might come up.

    I had already gotten a pass and a 'thank you' from her, for making my Arnie Lerma memorial site (linked in original post above) "unbiased" - and for including things she wanted known.

    When she lied to me about letting Arnie's site lapse in April of this year - only to immediately take it down when I offered to pay for its renewal, and then began harassing me about the question of a "second bathroom door" - only then did I add that to the memorial site and begin to tag certain information there as "RED FLAG EVENTs." Even at this late date, I was still unaware that she had initiated A-E steps. She revealed that to me - and told me people already knew about it - during that last phone conversation.

    Then in July of this year, she began harassing me by phone text, about copyrights for e-mails I included on the Arnie Lerma memorial site, which texting I ignored as being harassment. I was ready to defend myself in court. Her attorney stood down on the matter.

    Please read the affidavit pages and all will be clear.

    The church - and/or whomever else may have a special interest in seeing Arnie's work destroyed - now face an interesting predicament. Ginger or any of her assigned representatives could face criminal penalties if they misrepresent anything in a copyright take-down ploy, which would in any case, find the site down only once, and for a period of only two weeks before they would have to file a copyright suit in my local venue or else have it put right back up with almost no chance of future valid claims.
    Leland likes this.
  13. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    These are just some comments on what you wrote. it doesn't mean you are right or wrong, it's just My Opinion.

    1) If you haven't dealt with the CoS concerning your status and that you are not one of them anymore then perhaps that should take place. The CoS has no right to any personal information between you and Arnie no matter what unless he gave you their private property they should have no claim on private conversations.

    2) While they may be able to do that, would it really be worth their while? The OT levels have been a matter of public record for some time and they really don't need to go after any others, they can just say they are squirrel. if they do go after someone for them that validates the materials as being as on source as they are using them now, denying their authenticity puts doubt and if anyone thinks they're nutty then squirrel status handles that. I think they would only go after that as part of a bigger suit.

    3) She made her choice and now has to live with it. She may not be welcome in both the Scientology and Ex community, and even the freezone. I think it is a dumb move on her part but she may not have thought everything through thinking she could make things as they were one time in the past. Her choice.
  14. Emma

    Emma Con te partirò Administrator

    From what I've heard she wanted to go back to reverse a family disconnection. When all else is lost, you go back to family.
    lotus likes this.
  15. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    The writer Neil Gaiman was declared in the early 1980s and did A-E to get back in good standing. Now he is out of Scientology but has a normal relationship with his Scientologist family members.
  16. Emma

    Emma Con te partirò Administrator

    That's great. I hope others can achieve this.
  17. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    A tragically manipulative win for the cult. Blackmail in its most egregious form. My heart weeps.:cry:
  18. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    I don't know if anyone ever mentioned it or not, but as of Arnie's funeral, Ginger still did not have passwords for Arnie's computer, site, etc. She couldn't get in and it frustrated the heck out of her. Arnie had intentionally locked her out.

    So it's not a clearcut case of ownership and sale when it comes to rights to Arnie's writings, since he never authorized Ginger to have access to those, he'd already made them available publicly on the Internet, and there was no guarantee that anything he wrote on there was his first and original copy, either. In other words, an earlier copy would be the original.

    This is probably why we haven't seen COS doing anything with the writings. Arnie's son would also light a serious fire under their tails if they did that. He loved his father.

    And now all the writings are back. THANK YOU, Watchful Navigator! :thankyou: :grouphug:
  19. Voodoo

    Voodoo Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow

    I don't see why everything on Lermanet can't be downloaded to some sort of digital storage device, like an external hard drive for instance, or something even more compact.

    People could then freely disseminate all of the data there to others, however and whenever they see fit.

    I know of someone who has a one terrabyte hard drive containing the entire collected works of Hubbard -- and I do mean everything, including his fiction works and every lecture, film, and even interviews.

    That was in 2012. You can probably find more compact storage devices today.
    tesseract likes this.
  20. ALSO JUST NOW RESTORED - Sept. 29, 2019 Arnie Lerma's original domain and site, has been restored by placing it back on-line and having it re-direct to the restoration site - and so therefore the two sites will be interchangeable and most of the old links should be working once again (they re-direct to their corresponding pages on

    There are a few files we are collecting up to complete the site, although certain videos might no longer function. This additional work should be done in the next few weeks (as well as taking off the paypal button since the account is expired). I am not a webmaster, but I can follow directions and should be able to get minor things like this corrected.

    Regardless of what Ginger Sugerman has done and said in the past, I want to express my appreciation for her actions of goodwill and cooperation in releasing the domain to me so that Arnie's work could be more completely restored, and for granting ownership to Arnie's son (Joseph - who now has ownership rights to Arnie's original domain, for which I myself am acting as temporary custodian until he is ready to manage it).

    Besides all that I plan to maintain my existing mirror site indefinitely (at least for the next few years and then until it is clearly no longer needed).

    Thanks also to everyone who has continued their support for these efforts.