As Former Head of Scientology's OSA, What Does Mike Rinder Know?

Carmel

Crusader
Have you been reading what he has been writing on Marty's blog?
Not in the last week or two (I suppose I should catch up on that before I mouth off). What I read of Mike's prior to that, led me to believe that he had a different stance than Marty.

I have no hope for Marty ever taking a "shot at redemption". Given some things I've seen from Mike though, I do have that hope for him.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Both of them are still waking up.

They are currently helping in a small way compared to what has been done already.

What makes you think that 'they' are 'waking up'? How is perpetuating a lie 'helping'? I'll admit, there's no certainty as to their motives or plans, except that those motives are *not* my motives and their 'plans' whatever they may be are not acceptable to me, just judging by what we've seen so far.

We cannot keep focusing on them anymore, they will make they minds up at some point in the future.

What do you mean by 'focusing on them'? Contrary to the usual Scientology mindset, it's possible to reject *not only* Column A, but Column B too, at the same time. Is 'Church' Lie more a lie than Marty/Mike Lie? They're both 'acceptable truth' and deliberately false.

It would be one thing if Mike Rinder were quietly working behind the scenes to 'get the truth out'. It would be hard to judge that and unnecessary. However, he is *not* doing that. He is quite publicly expressing and supporting positions and 'stories' that he *knows* to be lies.

While all that goes on there is PLENTY to be getting on with in preparation for more to come.

Please read my post re the EU court ruling in stead of reading marty's blog just for today:)

I don't know about you, but, I'm quite capable of reading *both* and forming my own opinions. Why shouldn't I read Marty's blog and Mike's statements there? Is it that *those* lies are not intended for me, so I should deliberately remain ignorant of them?

No thanks :)

Zinj
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Listen Carmel - you should know:

Mike Rinder's OSA got me fired from my job, hired PIs and recruited volunteers to follow me, ran a "blow drill" on me following me across country from LA to Illinois, and then threatened my family when I got home, while also making calls to my 83 year old father telling him that his son was a "criminal on the run", intentionally instilling doubt in him about his own son - who had moved home to help him - before he died.

I don't need to be nice to Mike Rinder.

If Mike Rinder is really not OSA any more, then Mike Rinder needs to be nice to me. And to Carmen Rainer, and to all the other people he spent decades fucking over any way he could.

Nobody needs to be nice to Mike Rinder until Mike Rinder proves that he is being nice to them.
 

Carmel

Crusader
Listen Carmel - you should know:

Mike Rinder's OSA got me fired from my job, hired PIs and recruited volunteers to follow me, ran a "blow drill" on me following me across country from LA to Illinois, and then threatened my family when I got home, while also making calls to my 83 year old father telling him that his son was a "criminal on the run" before he died.

I don't need to be nice to Mike Rinder.

If Mike Rinder is really not OSA any more, then Mike Rinder needs to be nice to me. And to Carmen Rainer, and to all the other people he spent decades fucking over any way he could.

Nobody needs to be nice to Mike Rinder until Mike Rinder proves that he is being nice to them.
I'm not asking you to be fucking nice to him, ya git! :p It's not about "being nice" for fuck's sake.

Don't twist what I said!
 

FinallyFree

Gold Meritorious Patron
"But why don't you talk about something more important?

You can write. You are obviously intelligent.

Why don't you come on to ESMB and start talking to some of the people here?

Why don't you talk to the police about the actual crimes being committed by the Church?"

These are exactly my questions. And I will not trust Rathbun until he does something effective.

I am being patient but it is wearing thin. Until Rathbun dishes something with real meat on it I will not trust him, what he says or what he does.
 

greebly

Patron with Honors
What makes you think that 'they' are 'waking up'? How is perpetuating a lie 'helping'? I'll admit, there's no certainty as to their motives or plans, except that those motives are *not* my motives and their 'plans' whatever they may be are not acceptable to me, just judging by what we've seen so far.



What do you mean by 'focusing on them'? Contrary to the usual Scientology mindset, it's possible to reject *not only* Column A, but Column B too, at the same time. Is 'Church' Lie more a lie than Marty/Mike Lie? They're both 'acceptable truth' and deliberately false.

It would be one thing if Mike Rinder were quietly working behind the scenes to 'get the truth out'. It would be hard to judge that and unnecessary. However, he is *not* doing that. He is quite publicly expressing and supporting positions and 'stories' that he *knows* to be lies.



I don't know about you, but, I'm quite capable of reading *both* and forming my own opinions. Why shouldn't I read Marty's blog and Mike's statements there? Is it that *those* lies are not intended for me, so I should deliberately remain ignorant of them?

No thanks :)

Zinj

Man it's hard work getting help around here :hifive:
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Wait up guys.......Where did you get the info that Rinder is NOT doing a submission for the Inquiry in Oz? And has Rinder said that he *won't* testify for the Oz Inquiry regarding things like perverting the course of justice?

I am not presuming that he will, but nor am I ruling it out. Mike is not Marty, and from information I have he sits in a different place.

I think we should be encouraging Mike to do the right thing, not slamming him before we even know what decision he has made.

I'm intent on talking to Mike over this matter, and I have hope that he will decide to do the right thing.

While you are a doll and a superstar Carm, I think you are being naive.

Mike has had ample opportunity to do a lot - he has chosen not to do so. he has confined himself to posting crap about Miscavige on Marty's blog and thats about it.

I have not seen Rinder issuing one apology anywhere for the crap he has put people through. Did he do so and I missed it?.

Did I miss the insightful documents into the OSA Ops conducted by Mike's team of Loathsome Individuals?

Carm - if Mike were just off in a cave somewhere recovering I would be more understanding but he has CHOSEN to speak out the way he has. o-one forced it on him and yes, like Zinj I have no problem judging him on it.

He could have, for example, backed up Carmen's story of how she was pressured, he could have brought nearly 20 years of experience doing this sort of thing for the CofS to the TV show and helped expose the awful crap that gets done in the cofs.

He did not.

When children are getting hurt inaction by people responsible and who could help change the condition is reprehensible.
 

Carmel

Crusader
While you are a doll and a superstar Carm, I think you are being naive.
Maybe so.

Mike has had ample opportunity to do a lot - he has chosen not to do so. he has confined himself to posting crap about Miscavige on Marty's blog and thats about it.
I don't know that he's "chosen not to do so". I'm hoping that it's just that he hasn't yet had the guts and/or hasn't yet had the support to do it.

He could have, for example, backed up Carmen's story of how she was pressured, he could have brought nearly 20 years of experience doing this sort of thing for the CofS to the TV show and helped expose the awful crap that gets done in the cofs.

He did not.
We didn't ask him to. I could be wrong, but as far as I knew, he knew nothing of it until it went to air. We didn't want the airing of the program jeopardised, so it was pretty well kept under wraps till just prior to it airing when Jan E was asked to respond.

Do you have info which I don't, on this? (genuine question)

*Now*, Mike IS being asked to back up Carmen's story, by giving evidence regarding this kind of crap being business as usual for the CofS. Naive maybe, but I'm hoping he'll come up with the goods.

Mike is newly out. Some of the stuff I've seen from him indicates to me that he's in a different place to Marty and is still trying to find his feet. It's apparent to me that Marty has quite an influence or hold over Mike, and that Mike is not all that comfortable with it.

I can't help but think of where Mike might be now, if he had us lot as support, when he first came out, instead of Marty. From what I've seen, I don't think that it's too late or a waste of time to help Mike see how he could best move forward, and do the right thing. Hence, at this time, I won't condemn him.

I don't trust nor support Mike, but nor have I drawn the conclusion that he won't come to the party. At this time, I'm hoping that he will. His testimony for the Inquiry in Oz (in regard to perverting the course of justice) would make such a difference, as you know. At this time, I will do everything and anything I can to help make that happen, and slagging him isn't part of the picture.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Man it's hard work getting help around here :hifive:

Oh? What did you need bro? Ride to the airport? Help you move furniture? Oil change on your car? Just say the word...

Or, wait, oh, I see, you want help polishing that *turd*. Now, I'm at least as helpful as the next guy, but, even if it *was* possible to polish a turd, I don't *want* a polished turd and can't imagine who would. And, especially if it's about dressing it up so you can sell it as a tasty delight, well, um, no.

I think I'm gonna have to skip that one :)

Zinj
 

Magoo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Mike? CALL CARMEL: PM HER>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>DO SOMETHING
re this amazing chance we have to expose this entire Cult of Scientology.

You of all people have to know Hubbard was running a con. I worked
for you. You lied and harmed many people, myself included. You were
"In" on many things that need to be popped open NOW.

I appreciate what Carmel is saying, I appreciate what Alonzo and Mick and others are saying. There are TONS of families, today, who wake up in the
morning and go to sleep at night, crying because they've lost their son
or daughter to this insidious organization: the "church" of Scientology. :help2::bwahaha:

There are we out who have spoken out, that you KNOW have had programs
run on us-----You can speak of these and out this creepy, sick organization
pretending to be a "religion".

All of us have times in our lives when we can pick up the speer and DO something, or crawl behind a rock and let others suffer due to our lack
or courage, lack or willingness to take a stand.

Many people, many, many people have done tons and will keep doing tons
to expose this insidious organization and they ALL are to be congratulated.

This is your land from early on: :kangaroo:

Your day is here. Are you going to take a real stand, not just a "PR Stand" (TV) or are you going to crawl back into that 'friendly' cave, pretending
it has nothing to do with you?

IF you think it has nothing to do with you (which it does, and will, until you truly and honestly tell what you know re people harmed), OR are you going to turn your head,
thinking "This will go away"? This won't go away, Mike.

:write: call, :geekon::typing: Remember: "Do it Now?"

Don't get too >>>>:old: pretending all is fine. It isn't, you know it isn't.
Yes, there are families, children, loved ones that deserve to see their
families and friends, and you have a chance to unlock those doors.

I ask you, Mike, to please get with it---and DO it Now.

We are not your enemies. We are the very people who fought together with you, when "in", and/or the people who are very effectively helping expose the abuses you were caught up in. It is my opinion one cannot just walk away from these abuses. There are FAR too many loved ones still harmed by the deeds of this group. Please take this very moment to stand outside of any
warm and friendly box, and DO what you know in your heart needs to be done, to help all.

My best to ALL here :yes:

Tory/Magoo
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Maybe so.


I don't know that he's "chosen not to do so". I'm hoping that it's just that he hasn't yet had the guts and/or hasn't yet had the support to do it.

Had he said NOTHING I would agree with you but he has not - he has chosen to speak out on Marty's blog. That is not the only avenue open to him - he could have posted on here for example.

We didn't ask him to. I could be wrong, but as far as I knew, he knew nothing of it until it went to air. We didn't want the airing of the program jeopardised, so it was pretty well kept under wraps till just prior to it airing when Jan E was asked to respond.

Do you have info which I don't, on this? (genuine question)

I am assuming that he knew that the program was underweigh - but as to whether he knew specifics about it - no info.

*Now*, Mike IS being asked to back up Carmen's story, by giving evidence regarding this kind of crap being business as usual for the CofS. Naive maybe, but I'm hoping he'll come up with the goods.

Mike is newly out. Some of the stuff I've seen from him indicates to me that he's in a different place to Marty and is still trying to find his feet. It's apparent to me that Marty has quite an influence or hold over Mike, and that Mike is not all that comfortable with it.

I can't help but think of where Mike might be now, if he had us lot as support, when he first came out, instead of Marty. From what I've seen, I don't think that it's too late or a waste of time to help Mike see how he could best move forward, and do the right thing. Hence, at this time, I won't condemn him.

I don't trust nor support Mike, but nor have I drawn the conclusion that he won't come to the party. At this time, I'm hoping that he will. His testimony for the Inquiry in Oz (in regard to perverting the course of justice) would make such a difference, as you know. At this time, I will do everything and anything I can to help make that happen, and slagging him isn't part of the picture.

Well Mike (and Marty) are not in the same boat as most people Carm - they actively tried to destroy people some of whom are on this board. It aint a question of "oh whoops, my bad".

It is a colossal red flag that neither of them have , to my knowledge, sought out those they tried to destroy and apologize and help them out.

It doesn't matter whether Mike is "newly out" he is not owed anything by people who are not in Scientology. I'm glad you think that he may just deign to speak to the inquiry, given his performance thus far I wont be holding my breath.

The mere fact of running away from Miscavige does not make Rinder a good guy. He ran away, he chose not to defy and to protest and to speak out to DMs face and in public at the base or anywhere else. Instead he put up with for years and then ran.

Expecting him to find a pair now is hopeful thinking at the very best
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
I suspect that due to OSA's unravelling under the avalanche of pressure from exe's, Anon, etc, that he knew that his master had something nasty lined up for him. Replacement and banishment to facility X2O, or the likes.Then he peed his pants, and ran to save his own hide, like Mick said. I suspect that if it wasn't for Miscavige's displeasure, he would be there still, happily dishing out the punishment just as he had for years. I also suspect that the BBC program will be more Miscavige bad, Miscavige bad, that we've all heard before from him and his thuggish friend. They are actually a distraction from the real work being done in Australia and elsewhere, IMO.

If after this BBC program, I see that I am wrong I will apologise

Until then, fuck you Mike Rinder.
 

greebly

Patron with Honors
Or, wait, oh, I see, you want help polishing that *turd*.

Yes been polishing turds for quite some time now.

If you would like to help beyond polishing turds please do PM me.
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
It's hard to be patient, however, Mike Rinder has agreements to keep. When Panorama airs, I believe there will be a long line of journalists waiting to interview him. Besides, he has DM right where he wants him; wondering when the FBI is going to come knocking on his door, or Interpol, or something far worse. I used to complain about DM waste and extravagance. I didn't know half the story. What a clown! He will go down and be the laughing stock of the planet. I think Rinder wants to do it without destroying the CoS in the process. Besides Mike and Christy are neighbors of mine and good people, so let's maybe let them do this their way? It's a big tent; we can have our differences and agree to work together to stop the human rights abuses, and after that if somebody wants to pick up cans again, well, let 'em.

In my opinion there is NO justification for hiding crimes. But this is exactly what Mike is doing right now. If he is planing a big secret action against organized Scientology and is already in contact with the FBI I will say I'm sorry for attacking him on this - but if he is doing nothing like that he is a criminal - worse than David Miscavige.

Best
Markus
 
I have no hope for Marty ever taking a "shot at redemption". Given some things I've seen from Mike though, I do have that hope for him.

Understandable. Still, leave the door open a crack, even if just to watch them walking away. Things change.:yes:


Mark A. Baker
 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
In my opinion there is NO justification for hiding crimes. But this is exactly what Mike is doing right now. If he is planing a big secret action against organized Scientology and is already in contact with the FBI I will say I'm sorry for attacking him on this - but if he is doing nothing like that he is a criminal - worse than David Miscavige.

Best
Markus

Same here.

Step up , Mike, and do the right thing.
You will get apologies then.
 

Feral

Rogue male
Have you been reading what he has been writing on Marty's blog?

M&M have a tactic that has flaws.

My comment else where;
I'm happy for Marty and Mike to weave their web around DM.

I'll work side by side with them despite my disagreements with their assignment of cause and their goals for the tech.

The problem is that while they are trying to surgically remove the cancer from the body of the church, a malignant growth they call DM, they are all going to have their pet surgery project get hit by a freight train from Australia.

See, our work will survive them but they might find their patient dies from what's coming straight into their operating theater from Downunder.

They still can res-erect a new CofS with a friendlier service policy at a later date. As long as it ditches the abusive aspects of the CofS I'll defend their right to practice their "religion".
 

Feral

Rogue male
Listen Carmel - you should know:

Mike Rinder's OSA got me fired from my job, hired PIs and recruited volunteers to follow me, ran a "blow drill" on me following me across country from LA to Illinois, and then threatened my family when I got home, while also making calls to my 83 year old father telling him that his son was a "criminal on the run", intentionally instilling doubt in him about his own son - who had moved home to help him - before he died.

I don't need to be nice to Mike Rinder.

If Mike Rinder is really not OSA any more, then Mike Rinder needs to be nice to me. And to Carmen Rainer, and to all the other people he spent decades fucking over any way he could.

Nobody needs to be nice to Mike Rinder until Mike Rinder proves that he is being nice to them.

The armadillo is entitled to demand some answers I think.

Rinder has been out longer than either Carmel or I, I don't think his op basis is predicated by lack of time. Rather he is a political animal and does things in a very different way to most here.
 
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