As Former Head of Scientology's OSA, What Does Mike Rinder Know?

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
I think Marty was as much introverted before he got into Scientology as Tom Cruise was dyslexic just before he got into Scientology.

Who is Werner Erhart?

I am a crack German/English translator from way back.

No need to thank me.
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
Thank you very much, Krautfag! Much appreciated and very funny. I'd never seen that act before.
 

Blue Spirit

Silver Meritorious Patron
YES

That Mr. Rinder was at one time the godfather of OSA doesn't impress me at all in regards to his mental capacities. In fact, it dis-impresses me.

To hold down a job like that requires a mind quite criminally oriented.

Mike's only value is if he does 'fess up. Then he might even move into being valuable to life.

We shall see.

There is a LOT of world-wide pressure on this dying cult and if the discarded remnants like Marty and Mike believe they can salvage something out of the ashes, well TOO FUCKING BAD. If so, they are VERY on the wrong side.

I see it like you do, and trying to save a dying organization in any form is a
fruitless activity as long as the word Scientology is connected with it.
Even changing the name would not work for long now that the PR is quite bad and getting worse daily.

For those who like the Tech, the best that can be hoped for is that it will be used by many independents, and that their reputation good or bad will be what keeps it going or not to a relative degree.
 

Blue Spirit

Silver Meritorious Patron
Well Spoken

Mike,
Is your brother your Achilles heel? Is he the reason you can't really step out to the other side? A gun with blanks is being held at Andrew's head. He just doesn't know they are blanks. Taryn and Cathy don't know this either. Nor Pat. You don't have to worry about them. As soon as you really cross over the picket line, they will follow suit. No question. Your brother has a high capacity for truth, Mike. Believe me, Mike, your silence is actually making them stay in the church.

You have been dishonorable....to many, many people...and for many, many years. In your silence you are still the henchman you were. You can't speak out because you haven't actually left yet. You are held in check by your own silence. Don't damn yourself to this purgatory because in doing so you damn many others to it as well.

Unless you are guilty of first degree murder you have no reason to not speak. If you are guilty then go and make a deal for immunity. I personally don't care what you've done or what deal you make. I guess you run the risk that no one will like you, Mike, and you'll lose the little crumbs of admiration you now have. So what? Afraid of the PR? You deserve to pay some price, Mike. Let the cards fall so others can live in peace. A little safety for you comes at a very high price for many others.

Turn the page, Mike. Write the next chapter.

Very well spoken Arthur, and it is true. If he doesn't tell all then he is condemning himself and way too many others.

Mike, only the Truth will set you free.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
I see it like you do, and trying to save a dying organization in any form is a
fruitless activity as long as the word Scientology is connected with it.
Even changing the name would not work for long now that the PR is quite bad and getting worse daily.

For those who like the Tech, the best that can be hoped for is that it will be used by many independents, and that their reputation good or bad will be what keeps it going or not to a relative degree.

I think that Marty is aware that his window of opportunity is limited. He doesn't have long to succeed or fail at his goal of building a movement. He has no chance of taking over the church, and if he doesn't know that, he's a fool. I do think that he would like to lead 'The Reform Church of Independent Scientologists.' I imagine that he sees the FZ as squirrels, so he's not wanting them to join up, unless they change their ways. The thing is, that as every day passes, he becomes more and more yesterdays man, and yesterdays story. Will he be talked about much in five years? I doubt it, nor even in two years.
 
That Mr. Rinder was at one time the godfather of OSA doesn't impress me at all in regards to his mental capacities. In fact, it dis-impresses me.

To hold down a job like that requires a mind quite criminally oriented.

A. It is SUGGESTIVE of the presence of personal competence with regard to valuable organizational skills.

B. It DEMONSTRATES extreme poor judgement bordering on the sociopathic in the use of those skills.


Mike's only value is if he does 'fess up. Then he might even move into being valuable to life.

We shall see.


Given that all ex's have to varying degrees something of the same "row to hoe" as they leave off membership in the Co$, it is best to allow each room for individual growth & redemption. Things change. :whistling:

Still, this is no reason to assume that all persons claiming to have "seen the light" with regard to the mismanagement & abuses of the Co$ are equally willing to recognize ALL the reasons for those abusive practices and have them terminated - permanently. Personally, I regard that the more senior a person was in the Co$ leadership, the more justly they may be suspected in the absence of clearly exculpatory data.

Trust but verify? :coolwink:


Mark A. Baker
 

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
*sigh*

I was once told by a wise man who was very familiar with cults, that often those who come out with the least scars and least compunction often have a lot of evil at their base. They somehow survive. That being said, I've also seen mainly two routes that those who deeply go into the cult get pulled into. They either become complete assholes in order to survive, or they become frightened little wimps--again, in order to survive.

I was the latter. Ballsy chick that I once was, I became a wet rag. I don't know if Rinder was originally a dirtball. He would have had to become one in order to rise to the level that he rose to. If he was not genuinely scum prior to getting in, and he is being scum...or now trying the alternative wimpiness...then, he is still mind-fucked by this cult. I've also seen folks be totally ruthless to juniors, and still be totally submissive to their seniors, no matter how high they've risen. It's frustrating. Frustrating as hell. Some folks end up less indoctrinated...some folks just get overtaken. I'm guessing Rinder was just totally lost. Waking up, damn...it's hard to cut any slack--especially when you see folks who could just unravel it not stepping up. I don't know how hard he was mind-fucked, and I don't know how much of a jerk he was prior to getting in. Those who were a*holes prior to getting in will exploit their experiences in a new way. Watch out for them. I don't know why some people recover more easily, or wake up, or start to fight back. It's easy to be pissed off when you've been victimized by them for so long. And, it's just not an easy row to hoe to gather whether or not this person was a creep from day one, or if they are just that much more fucked up than you are right now, and don't know how to take that next step.
 

Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
According to Wikipedia, Mike Rinder is 54 years old. As long as he still believed in what he was doing in the CofS, running OSA and being an international spokesperson and all that, I expect he felt he had a meaningful and successful life going. If Scientology is still good and it's just the Church that's bad, then he still has a good shot at salvaging that meaning and success.

If it's all just an evil scam, he's got nothing, and he's suddenly looking at starting from way back down at the bottom of the hill of life, in his mid fifties, with his life's only major assets all turned into nasty liabilities. If he had gotten used to thinking of himself as the hero of his own life story, now suddenly he would have to re-identify his role as victim, at best. That's got to be a tough pill to swallow. The temptation to accept some blame, but insist that the cause is salvageable, must be enormous.

I don't really believe in a personal devil at all, but if I can use the idea of a tempter as a personification of temptation, I think the devil is always telling us that we haven't yet crossed the lines that we really have crossed, and also telling us we've already crossed lines, when we really haven't yet. 54 may seem too late to start afresh to make something of your life, but it's really not. It won't be the same kind of something you can make starting at 17. It can be a rare and valuable variant form of meaningful life. I hope Rinder can find a way to do this.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
According to Wikipedia, Mike Rinder is 54 years old. As long as he still believed in what he was doing in the CofS, running OSA and being an international spokesperson and all that, I expect he felt he had a meaningful and successful life going. If Scientology is still good and it's just the Church that's bad, then he still has a good shot at salvaging that meaning and success.

If it's all just an evil scam, he's got nothing, and he's suddenly looking at starting from way back down at the bottom of the hill of life, in his mid fifties, with his life's only major assets all turned into nasty liabilities. If he had gotten used to thinking of himself as the hero of his own life story, now suddenly he would have to re-identify his role as victim, at best. That's got to be a tough pill to swallow. The temptation to accept some blame, but insist that the cause is salvageable, must be enormous.

I don't really believe in a personal devil at all, but if I can use the idea of a tempter as a personification of temptation, I think the devil is always telling us that we haven't yet crossed the lines that we really have crossed, and also telling us we've already crossed lines, when we really haven't yet. 54 may seem too late to start afresh to make something of your life, but it's really not. It won't be the same kind of something you can make starting at 17. It can be a rare and valuable variant form of meaningful life. I hope Rinder can find a way to do this.
I understand what you say. To make a complete new start in life in the way that you describe, involves a lot of honest evaluation of what and where you are. It's not easy, but it can be done.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
I was once told by a wise man who was very familiar with cults, that often those who come out with the least scars and least compunction often have a lot of evil at their base. They somehow survive. That being said, I've also seen mainly two routes that those who deeply go into the cult get pulled into. They either become complete assholes in order to survive, or they become frightened little wimps--again, in order to survive.
...

A good post. Mike grew up in scientology and the Sea Org - whether the persona he ended up with is his "natural" one or whether he is a good guy who has the layer of asswipe so encrusted on him I cannot tell. I think he has played the apparatchik for so long that he himself can no longer tell the difference - he has been the "Mouth of Sauron" for far too long.

Having said that - I have done a mission (to AOLA) with Mike and met him in different areas during our time and I always liked him.

Apparently that was not mutual then (or now). Oh well.
 
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Carmel

Crusader
Just for the record...

I made it pretty clear on this thread that I had some *hope* that Mike could/would do what I, and others here, consider to be *the honourable thing*, and do it soon enough to make quite a difference - That "hope" has just been diminished to just about zilch, so I won't be putting any attention nor effort in that direction at this time. If others want to, then great.

I don't know where Mike is at. As I have said on this thread, I think he sits in a different place to Marty, but currently he's in the same camp and appears to be in it more than I had previously thought. Enough said.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
I made it pretty clear on this thread that I had some *hope* that Mike could/would do what I, and others here, consider to be *the honourable thing*, and do it soon enough to make quite a difference - That "hope" has just been diminished to just about zilch, so I won't be putting any attention nor effort in that direction at this time. If others want to, then great.

I don't know where Mike is at. As I have said on this thread, I think he sits in a different place to Marty, but currently he's in the same camp and appears to be in it more than I had previously thought. Enough said.

Keep the faith carm - first of all you are too nice a person to lose it and secondly maybe Mike will surprise us all.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
I made it pretty clear on this thread that I had some *hope* that Mike could/would do what I, and others here, consider to be *the honourable thing*, and do it soon enough to make quite a difference - That "hope" has just been diminished to just about zilch, so I won't be putting any attention nor effort in that direction at this time. If others want to, then great.

I don't know where Mike is at. As I have said on this thread, I think he sits in a different place to Marty, but currently he's in the same camp and appears to be in it more than I had previously thought. Enough said.

You are already doing so much great stuff.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
I made it pretty clear on this thread that I had some *hope* that Mike could/would do what I, and others here, consider to be *the honourable thing*, and do it soon enough to make quite a difference - That "hope" has just been diminished to just about zilch, so I won't be putting any attention nor effort in that direction at this time. If others want to, then great.

I don't know where Mike is at. As I have said on this thread, I think he sits in a different place to Marty, but currently he's in the same camp and appears to be in it more than I had previously thought. Enough said.

What happened?
 

AnonKat

Crusader
I made it pretty clear on this thread that I had some *hope* that Mike could/would do what I, and others here, consider to be *the honourable thing*, and do it soon enough to make quite a difference - That "hope" has just been diminished to just about zilch, so I won't be putting any attention nor effort in that direction at this time. If others want to, then great.

I don't know where Mike is at. As I have said on this thread, I think he sits in a different place to Marty, but currently he's in the same camp and appears to be in it more than I had previously thought. Enough said.

why is that panorama show taking so long
 
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