At the CORE of the onion. Logic? of Magick?

[Peter Soderqvist]

There is a heated and highly intellectual discussion going on on Jeff's blog about mental manipulation. There are many great link in the thread, too (about cults, etc...)
http://leavingscientology.wordpress.com/2010/06/05/mental-manipulation/
It's all very and highly intellectual. Yet, I don't see the end to these speculations, without getting into Hubbard's "Magick".
As I see from reports here, Hubbard was into "magick" himself. Aleister Crowley was "his good friend." I saw here also that LRH never confirmed a word at beng a "scientologist" himself.
What was he then? - I don't care. I want to have the core of being charmed and under spell.

Now!
I read Dianetics in 1993. It was a wild time in Russia. And I was not so educated as to see the broader picture of things around me (meaning - no critical thinking developed fully. Not just me, all Russia was in confusion).
Was Dianetics scientific enough to me? - Hell, yeah! Hubbard threw in there SO many new terms for me.
Now I see I was CHARMED by all those "scientific" names he invented.

Is this a science and logic, or Hubard's Magick in action? (which one makes one stick to and defend Scientology?)

If it's not scientific, what's at the core?

P.S. I think Mystic will answer better than anyone else.

Soderqvist1: L. Ron Hubbard conned one of Aleister Crowley’s disciples!

A Piece of blue Sky Chapter his Magical Career
There was disquiet in the Ordo Templi Orientis. In a cable to his U.S. deputy, dated May 22, Crowley said, "Suspect Ron playing confidence trick, Jack evidently weak fool obvious victim prowling swindlers." On the 31st, he added, "It seems to me on the information of our Brethren in California that (if we may assume them to be accurate) Frater 210 [Parsons] has committed... errors. He has got a miraculous illumination which rhymes with nothing, and he has apparently lost all of his personal independence. From our brother's account he has given away both his girl and his money - apparently it is an ordinary confidence trick."
http://www.scnforum.org/index.php?t=msg&goto=5440&S=988a549aaa6a28a3dcaa9787134b9d7d#msg_5440

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

OK, for everyone who has a fucking misunderstood here's the skinny. Hubbard was a con man and you are stupid for believing him. Did you have a release? I know I did.

Ok, we've all heard you now! - Welcome to ESMB! - If you can, start talking some sense instead of those juvenile jabs.. You're stupid for doing them.

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

How the trick was done: Look for the earliest incident on the chain.. Mewhaha.. Well, that would be DMSMH, the theory of the 'reactive mind'.. Was for me anyway..

According the the theory we have a reactive mind that is inaccessible for our awareness.. Meaning we don't know, and can't know, about it and it's contents. 'Engrams' and 'Implants' in there control our behavior and makes us act irrationally.

Believing that.. Would it cause you to doubt yourself? - Look to some 'authority'? - What happened to your judgement? - Your certainty of what you knew? - Even your perceptions now? - Would it make you 'suggestible'? (Suggestible is a hypnotic term.)

 

[Type4_PTS]

Over the years many people have said "you should write a book"..

If your book would help those getting out of the cult to heal then it would be well worth writing. And by showing people HOW Hubbard led thousands down a false spiritual path, the techniques he used, ect. would certainly help people (in my opinion). As well, it would help governments to be able to understand the true nature of scientology , thereby helping them to protect people in the future.
Where can I order my reserve copy?
The fact that English isn't your best subject isn't a deal breaker. There's ways around that.

 

[WildKat]

well said

One factor is that scientology appeals to our desire to be "god-like."

We were promised that we could be GODS: we could heal and control our bodies, our minds, the "mest" universe.

We could have anything we ever thought we wanted (positive postulates that WORK), we could control other people (using the Tone Scale and other "tools" of manipulation and control), we could realize all our dreams including our personal dreams for fame, fortune, beautiful lovers, as well as our dreams for a safe, sane, orderly world without war, crime, etc. etc. where everybody loves everybody and life is beautiful...

Who amongst us wouldn't want to be a GOD and have all that power?

IMO that's how we were hooked, that's why so many stayed for so long -- because they thought they were actually achieving that power. Every little bit of "win" in improving abilities (which can and does happen at least for some people on the lower level services) made people think it was "real" and that some day they would have ALL the power they desired. They hungered for more and more; they stayed hoping to get it.

It can be a real shock to wake up one day and realize that you are not much more than a grain of sand, only one amongst some six-billion human beings on the planet, no better, no worse, and that you really don't have much power over much of anything and that you are a loooooong way from being "God" of the universe.

Sadly, some never realize it and continue to live in their self-important delusion while most of life goes on around them completely unaffected by their "postulates."

Well stated.

Scientology is a vanity cult driven by ego. The ones that rise to the top are the huge egos. Miscavige is ego-driven. Marty is ego-driven. I got out when I noticed that the "upper crust" of OTs were not such nice people and the decent people were on the sidelines or falling away.

 

[VaD]

Seems to me that Aleister Crowley was a good fella. He had his lacks and merits... but he wasn't hiding them.
Hubbard was different. He WAS hiding his deeds in life. He made his life into PR story (which current Church spreads everywhere).
If I had known true life story of this dude, I'd have never bought into his science fiction crap... which IS scientology.

My parents warned me. But I didn't listen to them. Fool!

 

[Dulloldfart]

Soderqvist1: L. Ron Hubbard conned one of Aleister Crowley’s disciples!<snip>[/url]

Please excuse the bad form of commenting on this post from the other forum here.

Soderqvist1: so let's leave this b. s. Behind us!
I have investigated the Hubbard-Parsons connection, and there is to my mind no consistent picture about what has been going on between the parties!
What they have done is fairly well established, but Hubbard's motive is ambivalent, he seems to have loved Jack Parsons as Frater Belarion, yet coned him in the end!

The Affirmation by L. Ron Hubbard 1947
LRH: (d) Any distaste I may have for Jack Parsons originated in a
psychic experiment. Such distaste is foolish. He is my friend and
comrade-in-arms.

LRH: Jack is also an adept. You love and respect him as a friend. He cannot take offense at what you do. You will not wrong him because you love him.

(m) That I have only friendship for Jack Parsons.

(n) That I feel no wish for vengeance toward anyone. That I love people
and believe in honor and glory.

(o) That I believe in my gods and spiritual things.
http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hubbard-admissions-psychiatric-eval.html

These "affirmations" are not statements of then-current fact: they are (in Scn terms) postulates made and reinforced over and over in present time (maybe daily for years) with the intention that they *will become* fact in the future.

The mere fact that Hubbard adds such to his affirmations means that they are certainly *not* wholly factual at the time of writing.

Paul

 

[VaD]

Magick

I've come to realize that Scientology is in its essense is Magick.

There's no amount of explanations, intellect and logic that could have made me a "dedicated Scientologist". So, it must have been "Magick" (something mysterious, unexplainable, out of this - intellectually advanced and logical -world).

I'm talking here about Charms and Spells rather than "Truthfulness of the data" as in "it applies to me"..

I think that all that Logic is BS. (it just leads to *think* rather than see)
Don't mean that Intellect is a bad thing... I just mean that there is NO intelligence that can grasp "Magick". So, I think, there's no reason to apply your heavily high intelligence to the question "Why did I get involved into Scientology?".

 

[uniquemand]

Scientology is hypnosis, and after a while, auto hypnosis (auditing and then solo-auditing). Essentially, Hubbard "redefined terms" so that people thought they were doing something else (auditing), when they were really learning how to control their own and other people's trance states.

There's nothing really wrong with being aware of your own trance, or how to change it, or other people's. The problem is when you are being controlled by people with bad intentions for you and then allowing yourself to be their agent amongst your contacts.

 

[VaD]

Please excuse the bad form of commenting on this post from the other forum here.



These "affirmations" are not statements of then-current fact: they are (in Scn terms) postulates made and reinforced over and over in present time (maybe daily for years) with the intention that they *will become* fact in the future.

The mere fact that Hubbard adds such to his affirmations means that they are certainly *not* wholly factual at the time of writing.

Paul

Paul,
they weren't factual at the time of writing...
They became embodiement of his thoughts. He was VERY happy to see that his dreams came true. Wouldn't you? (I would)

 

[VaD]

At the Core of this onion we have L. Ron Hubbard with his BEAUTIFUL MIND (watch that movie, too)
This beautiful mind got us there. We LOVED to get there. It was wonderful. His mind was what got us to detach from our lives and get into LRH's beautiful world ..
Does it sound like what you got into (getting yourself involved into $cn)?

 

[Type4_PTS]

There's no amount of explanations, intellect and logic that could have made me a "dedicated Scientologist". So, it must have been "Magick" (something mysterious, unexplainable, out of this - intellectually advanced and logical -world).

Things that we have no understanding of tend to be "mysterious". I think Scientology can be broken down with all of its manipulative techniques exposed, and that we absolutely need to do so to fully understand how we were ensnared in the trap and to protect others in the future. It's not enough to just warn people to stay away from scientology. Other cults, including those not religious in nature, use some of the same mind control techniques.

 

[Smilla]

Logic no. Magic no. Hypnotism yes.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Paul,
they weren't factual at the time of writing...
They became embodiement of his thoughts. He was VERY happy to see that his dreams came true. Wouldn't you? (I would)

I think we live on different planets to each other, Vadim.

Paul

 

[Veda]

"You are just and kind. You are merciless to any who cross your rule..."

"You can be merciless when your will is crossed and have the right to be merciless."

"Your writing has a deep hypnotic effect on people and they are always pleased with what you write."

"Your psychology is advanced and true and wonderful. It hypnotizes people. It predicts their emotions, for you are their ruler."

"Men are your slaves."

L. Ron Hubbard, from his 'Affirmations'

 

[rhill]

At the Core of this onion we have L. Ron Hubbard with his BEAUTIFUL MIND (watch that movie, too)
This beautiful mind got us there. We LOVED to get there. It was wonderful. His mind was what got us to detach from our lives and get into LRH's beautiful world ..
Does it sound like what you got into (getting yourself involved into $cn)?

"A Beautiful Mind" was about schizophrenia. I think Kent & Lane's "malignant narcissism" is a much better match for LRH.

 

[VaD]

"A Beautiful Mind" was about schizophrenia. I think Kent & Lane's "malignant narcissism" is a much better match for LRH.

Yeah! What should i do now, R. Hill? Search more? Get higher up the Bridge?

You see, I got it. I don't need any more logic and intelligence to "Why have I ever got myself into this crap?"

I got it!
(You might have been the one there to contribute to that... And I thank you for that)

 

[VaD]

I think we live on different planets to each other, Vadim.

Paul

Yes, we do. Which one is yours?

 

[VaD]

I'm sorry that haven't answered to all those wonderful posts here.

I just now came to think that whatever majick might have been spelled upon us, and whatever spells we were under - we ARE at the core of this onion (each one of us at the core of his own onion).

And! "I" is simple. It becomes covered up by layers and layers of "truths" (which were distorted visions of th TRUTH "I" knew from the beginning). I'm still there - covered by all those "truths".

Life is simple, happy and playful enterprise. It can be harsh and cruel but what holds us here is JUST life (and living it).
We were made with that idea.
"Truths" are there to challenge us. They can tell us that we "HAVE TO" endure, fight, bite and... for "life". That's BULL!

imho.

 

[Lisa Ann Marie]

Scientology is satanic so like any other cult of that creed it's surrounded by black magic. Personally I think this is an obvious point, but let the debate fly.