Atack: What David Mayo told me about L. Ron Hubbard, Scientology, and the upper levels

Koot

Patron with Honors
Not necessarily. :no:

If a person being treated badly was expecting to be treated badly or believed he deserved to be treated badly then there is not necessarily any reduction in any of the three points of Hubbard's ARC triangle.

As an example, take the INT Exec's that were in The Hole for long periods of time. While I hate to use a Hubbard term, some of them were essentially implanted with the belief that they were degraded beings and/or suppressive persons.

When you achieve that state one often believes that the bad treatment was deserved or that they were fully responsible for the circumstances they find themselves in. In their language - they pulled it in.
When they cognite on the insanity enforced on them there will be an ARCX among other things. They might even blow. I would.
 

Koot

Patron with Honors
I'm talking about Hubbard actually admitting that he made up the entire "people only leave a subject due to their overts and MU's" bullshit and then admitting before Mayo and I forget who else that he had concocted that line of B.S. to strengthen his control over the flock.
So as he already made that admission it's too late to put the genie back in the bottle.
Overts don't make someone leave, just ask an S.P.
Has Miscavidge left yet?
Hubbard never said that overts were the ONLY reason. Some bone head exec/s said that in an effort to overwhelm someone into being his/her robot.

Some evil doers have their actions all justified and even think they are doing a good thing, the "right" thing. "shooting that bitch was the right thing to do, she was messing everything up and getting away with it!!"(no real incident here)
 

Veda

Sponsor
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Koot

Patron with Honors
BLOW-OFFS, departures, sudden and relatively unexplained from sessions, posts, jobs, locations and areas. One can treat people so well that they grow ashamed of themselves, knowing they don’t deserve it, that a blow-off is precipitated, and certainly one can treat people so badly that they have no choice but to leave, but these are extreme conditions and in between these we have the majority of departures: people leave because of their own overts and withholds (LRH


)and certainly one can treat people so badly that they have no choice but to leave,




and certainly one can treat people so badly that they have no choice but to leave,

and certainly one can treat people so badly that they have no choice but to leave,
 
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Gib

Crusader
If we look at this rhetorically, persuasive statement by Hubbard, why we come to the conclusion it is rhetoric in a bad way.

The last two sentences is filled with rhetoric in a bad way.

People depart from a town or a job or a session for many reasons, none have anything to do with Hubbard's Scientology technology of overts and witholds.

ROFLMAO

OK, people raise their hands? Why did you leave a job? Did you put out your resume and seek greener pastures?

LOL

According to Hubbard you had overts and witholds.

LOL

Of course, the full rhetoric of Hubbard's quote that you posted Veda, thank you!, is to get one to stay in scientology. Or be part of the crowd.


LOL
 
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ThetanExterior

Gold Meritorious Patron
I read Dianetics and decided I wanted to be Clear. When I had Dianetic auditing at my local org I found it didn't work. They said it was because I needed to learn to communicate with my bank. So they made me do the Communication Course.

I remember sitting in this empty courseroom doing TRs with the course supervisor as my coach and the sun was beating down outside. I was due to go back the next day but when I saw it was another sunny day I didn't go. I didn't want to sit in an empty courseroom doing stupid TRs, I wanted to be Clear like Hubbard had said I could achieve.

That was my first "blow". Of course they said it was all my fault. It always is your fault in scientology. I eventually went back and stayed for over 15 years. I discovered that Clear and OT were BS. Never mind.
 
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DagwoodGum

Squirreling Dervish
It was Bill Franks who along with David Mayo had Hubbard confide in them that the overts and witholds tech is largely bullshit and that people really leave because of ARC breaks. You really should watch this if you are still trapped in the OW fraud.

 
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Little David

Gold Meritorious Patron
I read Dianetics and decided I wanted to be Clear. When I had Dianetic auditing at my local org I found it didn't work. They said it was because I needed to learn to communicate with my bank. So they made me do the Communication Course.

I remember sitting in this empty courseroom doing TRs with the course supervisor as my coach and the sun was beating down outside. I was due to go back the next day but when I saw it was another sunny day I didn't go. I didn't want to sit in an empty courseroom doing stupid TRs, I wanted to be Clear like Hubbard had said I could achieve.

That was my first "blow". Of course they said it was all my fault. It always is your fault in scientology. I eventually went back and stayed for over 15 years. I discovered that Clear and OT were BS. Never mind.
When they said you "needed to learn to communicate with your bank" they meant you needed to give them more money.
 

Hatshepsut

Crusader
I read Dianetics and decided I wanted to be Clear. When I had Dianetic auditing at my local org I found it didn't work. They said it was because I needed to learn to communicate with my bank. So they made me do the Communication Course.

I remember sitting in this empty courseroom doing TRs with the course supervisor as my coach and the sun was beating down outside. I was due to go back the next day but when I saw it was another sunny day I didn't go. I didn't want to sit in an empty courseroom doing stupid TRs, I wanted to be Clear like Hubbard had said I could achieve.

That was my first "blow". Of course they said it was all my fault. It always is your fault in scientology. I eventually went back and stayed for over 15 years. I discovered that Clear and OT were BS. Never mind.
My bolded.

In my opinion, these states had always been transient, depending on how things were going and the quality of counter-intention you were up against.
 

DagwoodGum

Squirreling Dervish
When an "ARC break" session (or "word clearing") doesn't do the trick, and the person still regards Hubbard's Scientology "tech" (and "applied philosophy" and "Bridge") in an uncomplimentary way - perhaps seeing it as a trap that is decorated with twinkling ornaments of (seeming) truth - would you, then, say the person really does have "overts"?
You are asking about an ARC break session not doing the trick as though it should and that you believe, or erroneously believe that I believe the tech works well enough that it ought to do the trick.
Of course the ARC break session may not do the trick, it's all bogus ceremony to extract capital from corpses, or those soon to be brain dead or broke - which ever comes first.
And whether the person has overts or not is totally besides the point.
He may or may not plus it all depends on how he deals with guilt personally as to whether it affects him negatively at all.
Having overts may not impinge on him any more than it does on DM, in other words overts have zero effect as it's all in how you handle them.
It's a life skill that some learn and some never do.
It's a matter of confront and some can't confront those they've acted against and feel the desire to leave their proximity, sometimes out of fear of reprisals.
Sociopaths are well practiced in the art of overtry and you can see that with some it's their only real skill.
 
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Veda

Sponsor
You are asking about an ARC break session not doing the trick as though it should and that you believe, or erroneously believe that I believe the tech works well enough that it ought to do the trick.

-snip-
If you check, I think you'll see that I was responding to Koot with this comment.

:)
 

DagwoodGum

Squirreling Dervish
If you check, I think you'll see that I was responding to Koot with this comment.

:)
Didn't see Koot's comment as I ignore people I take for being voraciously pro clam, it may just be my impression based on limited contact, sorry.
Not saying he/she is pro clam as that would be the supreme slandering of and invalidation of a person's ability to know what by now is entirely knowable - that Scientology is exclusively for shmucks who can will themselves stupid when all one needs to know is easily available on the internet as it has been for years.
I suspect that some people just have nothing left in life but fading memories of their "glory years" of being on staff or "time well spent" yelling at ashtrays.;)
 
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programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
My bolded.

In my opinion, these states had always been transient, depending on how things were going and the quality of counter-intention you were up against.
In my opinion, these states had always been transient, because the brain dopamine effect from auditing does not last forever.
So, Hubbard said to not stop on The Bridge of auditing even though he knew nothing about this.
 

MacKenzie

Patron with Honors
In my opinion, these states had always been transient, because the brain dopamine effect from auditing does not last forever.
So, Hubbard said to not stop on The Bridge of auditing even though he knew nothing about this.
This is off thread but the brain dopamine effect is key to any 'mental manipulation'. Even an innocent looking or not so innocent looking message board is effecting your dopamine levels and can easily become on addiction.

 

phenomanon

Canyon
Didn't see Koot's comment as I ignore people I take for being voraciously pro clam, it may just be my impression based on limited contact, sorry.
Not saying he/she is pro clam as that would be the supreme slandering of and invalidation of a person's ability to know what by now is entirely knowable - that Scientology is exclusively for shmucks who can will themselves stupid when all one needs to know is easily available on the internet as it has been for years.
I suspect that some people just have nothing left in life but fading memories of their "glory years" of being on staff or "time well spent" yelling at ashtrays.;)
That's harsh.
The "Yelling at ashtrays" is an exercise that factually will increase your skill. ( Project your will upon another).
Been there. Done that. Seen it happen with others.
Can be a useful tool in sales or anytime when you have to impose your will upon another. ( Tone 40 y'know).

Disclaimer: Because this is true for me does not make me a scn apologist.

On Class 8 we are drilled that on the HCOB wrerein LRH says that "Underneath every ARCx is a M/Wh". I don't remember the HCOB for your reference. I could find it if I had to.:D
 
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MacKenzie

Patron with Honors
That's harsh.
The "Yelling at ashtrays" is an exercise that factually will increase your skill. ( Project your will upon another).
Been there. Done that. Seen it happen with others.
Can be a useful tool in sales or anytime when you have to impose your will upon another. ( Tone 40 y'know).

Disclaimer: Because this is true for me does not make me a scn apologist.
Dear Phenomanon,

I couldn't agree more. Every time I yelled at the ashtray it did exactly what I told it to.

Unfortunately, when I tried the same technique on people I got mixed results, even a couple of hospital bills.

I chocked it up to mu's.

Bruce
 
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