Auditing Process is Mind Control ???

Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
So auditing IS hypnosis because this guy says it is? How come many of the most indoctrinated are SO and often very young who have had very little auditing?

scn is a complex mind control scheme and auditing mainly serves as a myth to drive it as it's real effects are negligible. scio uses the same basic techniques that many cults and fascists use: information control, love bombing, coercion, threats etc. The thought police aspects of sec checking however are significant.
 

AnonKat

Crusader
So auditing IS hypnosis because this guy says it is? How come many of the most indoctrinated are SO and often very young who have had very little auditing?

scn is a complex mind control scheme and auditing mainly serves as a myth to drive it as it's real effects are negligible. scio uses the same basic techniques that many cults and fascists use: information control, love bombing, coercion, threats etc. The thought police aspects of sec checking however are significant.

Auditing is the bread and butter that the techies still cling to as the holy grail of Scientology. It starts with getting trained like a dog with the TRs

Oh the young do not need the ritual of auditing to get indoctrinated

Ideal age is 12 to 14 for molding the young mind into what you want with it, But as the mind develops itself upto 25 year of age it isn't entirely nescercarry.

feelings of guilt and inadequacy are triggered. Selfblame is a powerfull enslaver
 
Last edited:

Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
Auditing is the bread and butter that the techies still cling to as the holy grail of Scientology. It starts with getting trained like a dog with the TRs

Oh the young do not need the ritual of auditing to get indoctrinated

Ideal ahge is 12 to 14 for molding the young mind into what you want with it

As I said it's the MYTH that drives the thing. It's carrot and stick tech and people generally leave when they realize there IS NO CARROT. I had this experience when I was doing some "ot" levels and the hgc pages were so impressed that I was on them when I was thinking that nothing was really happening but of course I couldn't say that then or $$$$$$.

Michael Pattison said "ots" have a "missed withhold" talking to other scios since they know they are no different than anyone else.
 

AnonKat

Crusader
As I said it's the MYTH that drives the thing. It's carrot and stick tech and people generally leave when they realize there IS NO CARROT. I had this experience when I was doing some "ot" levels and the hgc pages were so impressed that I was on them when I was thinking that nothing was really happening but of course I couldn't say that then or $$$$$$.

Michael Pattison said "ots" have a "missed withhold" talking to other scios since they know they are no different than anyone else.

Auditing is NOT a MYTH. I can see that people feel that they have gains and wins from it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOlteNk0UkI

And Hypnosis is not always a bad thing either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PaTb5JVhYw

HOWEVER IF MISUSED IT IS DEVASTATING BUT IT DOES NOT MEAN ALL IS BAD
 

The Great Zorg

Gold Meritorious Patron
WOW!


Sweet Mother Of God In Heaven!!!!! THIS is what I've been looking for, for over 4 years now!!!! FINALLY! An explanation! Something I can work with! A direction so I can continue my own personal research into what exactly happened to me 35 years ago! H F! TY TY TY TY TY!!!!!!!! :yes: :happydance: :thumbsup: :)

Thanks for the OP Kat! Most very cool video! Jeesh - I'm almost shaking! My mind is like a floodgate opened! Ohhhhhh! Aha! Sooooooo.... aha...! I C!! So......

ESMB rocks! :thumbsup:

H F!
 

The Great Zorg

Gold Meritorious Patron
m/w

As I said it's the MYTH that drives the thing. It's carrot and stick tech and people generally leave when they realize there IS NO CARROT. I had this experience when I was doing some "ot" levels and the hgc pages were so impressed that I was on them when I was thinking that nothing was really happening but of course I couldn't say that then or $$$$$$.
Michael Pattison said "ots" have a "missed withhold" talking to other scios since they know they are no different than anyone else.

IMO scientology and all that hubbard created is all a bunk. Whatever might work and have at least minimal positive effect for gain does so under disguise and delsuion since it is attributed to and reinforces hubbard's indoctrination and programming. :unsure:

I had a 'm/w' missed once; it was the same physical reactions hubbard attributed to having an 'overt or 'withold' missed: uncertainty, nervousness, etc. etc. What was the 'withold' you might ask? Well, it was when some coworkers were discussing scientology and since I had never told anyone I worked with that I had been involved with scientology years earlier, I reacted to it like I would have 'in session'. So obviously scienmtology is a 'contra-survival act' and that 'overt' had been 'missed'. :nervous:

What a head fuck!
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
I watched the first video and 1/2 the second one. I'm not impressed.

The guy is waving around a NED pack from about 1978 and said he did the course. I did that course too. This was when Dn was run before the Grades, and so the student auditor did not need to be trained up to Class IV, etc.

He pretty much starts off the 1st video with a couple of clips of famous CofS nutters saying "What are your crimes?"-type comments, including Ax's famous video with George Baillie. He says that such actions are *produced* by Dn auditing. Well, they aren't. It is Hubbard's SP/PTS writings that are back of such idiocies, and the irrational willingness to use them.

The rest of it is similarly sloppy. He talks of "NLP trigger words" as if NLP is an established valid science. It isn't. He describes a Dn session that is generally false (but not always). I get the idea that the Dn that *he* personally received was probably like that, but he is generalizing that to include all Dn auditing.

I don't think Dn is a wonderful tech at all, as it sends the pc off down the track looking for stuff instead of bringing charged incidents up to present time naturally under their own steam. If the topic under view already flattened, the pc is going to go looking for stuff that isn't there, and if the auditor is insisting there is something there he will *invent* it. I can't think of the number of times I told my Dn auditor "this chain is flat" (thank you, your needle is floating) as well as supposedly F/Ning on some incident way down the track. I agree that many of these were probably false, but not all.

Probably his main error is in generalizing Dn auditing to *all* auditing. Very little routine Scn auditing (Grades processes, say) goes E/S into possibly-imaginary past lives at the drop of a hat.

Paul
 

AnonKat

Crusader
I watched the first video and 1/2 the second one. I'm not impressed.

The guy is waving around a NED pack from about 1978 and said he did the course. I did that course too. This was when Dn was run before the Grades, and so the student auditor did not need to be trained up to Class IV, etc.

He pretty much starts off the 1st video with a couple of clips of famous CofS nutters saying "What are your crimes?"-type comments, including Ax's famous video with George Baillie. He says that such actions are *produced* by Dn auditing. Well, they aren't. It is Hubbard's SP/PTS writings that are back of such idiocies, and the irrational willingness to use them.

The rest of it is similarly sloppy. He talks of "NLP trigger words" as if NLP is an established valid science. It isn't. He describes a Dn session that is generally false (but not always). I get the idea that the Dn that *he* personally received was probably like that, but he is generalizing that to include all Dn auditing.

I don't think Dn is a wonderful tech at all, as it sends the pc off down the track looking for stuff instead of bringing charged incidents up to present time naturally under their own steam. If the topic under view already flattened, the pc is going to go looking for stuff that isn't there, and if the auditor is insisting there is something there he will *invent* it. I can't think of the number of times I told my Dn auditor "this chain is flat" (thank you, your needle is floating) as well as supposedly F/Ning on some incident way down the track. I agree that many of these were probably false, but not all.

Probably his main error is in generalizing Dn auditing to *all* auditing. Very little routine Scn auditing (Grades processes, say) goes E/S into possibly-imaginary past lives at the drop of a hat.

Paul

I agree with you to great lengths hence I tweaked the tittle a bit. Sounds like he is resentfull wich I think we can not blame him for but the Video could have been made with more "zeal"
 

The Great Zorg

Gold Meritorious Patron
I agree with you to great lengths hence I tweaked the tittle a bit. Sounds like he is resentfull wich I think we can not blame him for but the Video could have been made with more "zeal"

I think he just laid out his theory of how auditing does what it does. It is enough of a direction for me to follow and see where it leads. I did not take his explanation and theory as gospel but it does seem to be very plausible and worthy of much more research. :confused2:

Sure, he'll never win an Emmy for this video, but he gets the point across that he is trying to make. :yes:

It's actually kind of exciting, to think that the mechanism hubbard stumbled across that can generate such powerful mental images and physical reactions is to say the least, a milestone. Time and research will tell. Hopefully it is the right tree. :confused2:
 

AnonKat

Crusader
Ooh you tittle-tweaker you!

Paul

Sorry I ment the Tittle of this thread . Once one looks past the resentment of all of hubbards work than one sees he actually uses lots of cognigtive and behavioral psychology.

I am not sold on the Neuro Linguistic yet because at some point you have to just live your life.

What I do see is that the Training Routines or TR's are just that. Training Routines. You get what you train. pavlov's dog is valid. That is why Hubbard needed to discredit that experiment because he USED it himself to retrain the "reactive mind".

One reaction that is trained into the subconscious mind is: What would LRH do, say or think.

I wonder how long it takes for that sentence not to pop up anymore after leaving.

Hubbard did not get rid of your reactive or subconscious mind he REPROGRAMMED it.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Sorry I ment the Tittle of this thread.

I was having fun with your misspelling of "title", likening it to the word "tit" meaning "breast." If you double the "t", the "i" changes from a long i (as in "like") to a short i as in "lick" (or tit).

Once one looks past the resentment of all of hubbards work than one sees he actually uses lots of cognigtive and behavioral psychology.

I am not sold on the Neuro Linguistic yet because at some point you have to just live your life.

What I do see is that the Training Routines or TR's are just that. Training Routines. You get what you train. pavlov's dog is valid. That is why Hubbard needed to discredit that experiment because he USED it himself to retrain the "reactive mind".

One reaction that is trained into the subconscious mind is: What would LRH do, say or think.

I wonder how long it takes for that sentence not to pop up anymore after leaving.

Hubbard did not get rid of your reactive or subconscious mind he REPROGRAMMED it.

"Retraining the sub-conscious" is a long-standing technique, from way before Hubbard's use of it. Napoleon Hill famously used it in his very well-known book, Think and Grow Rich, which is not so much his own bright ideas but a summation of generally workable techniques from the most successful businessmen of his day.

I don't see anything wrong with it, but *only* if it is used with the informed foreknowledge of the person concerned.

Paul
 

AnonKat

Crusader
I was having fun with your misspelling of "title", likening it to the word "tit" meaning "breast." If you double the "t", the "i" changes from a long i (as in "like") to a short i as in "lick" (or tit).



"Retraining the sub-conscious" is a long-standing technique, from way before Hubbard's use of it. Napoleon Hill famously used it in his very well-known book, Think and Grow Rich, which is not so much his own bright ideas but a summation of generally workable techniques from the most successful businessmen of his day.

I don't see anything wrong with it, but *only* if it is used with the informed foreknowledge of the person concerned.

Paul

I am glad I made you have fun. I am going to say something nice about LRH. Hubbard was a very good psychologist, he knew how to the combine various fields and use it in practice.

Hypnotism is alsoo part of psychology. It had to go it alone untill it's processes were recognized as having valid contributions to the field of psychology.

Regarding the Brain: The last 10 years have been Epic in Brain Research. The processes are much more known now.
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
Conversation, to some extent, is mind control. Capitalizing the term doesn't change it. "Mind Control". Ooga Bugga! I think that there is some truth to the idea that Hubbard wanted to dominate the minds of his followers, and that this culminated in the indoctrination of the Sea Org or in auditing with the "Security Check". However, while you could characterize all auditing as mind control, you could also characterize all sales as mind control, as well, or any other form of interaction where you are trying to get another being with a mind to change their behavior or thoughts/feelings as mind control, and therefore, I feel it's kind of a meaningless term used to characterize any methods which we want to disparage without actually saying anything at all useful.
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
Conversation, to some extent, is mind control. Capitalizing the term doesn't change it. "Mind Control". Ooga Bugga! I think that there is some truth to the idea that Hubbard wanted to dominate the minds of his followers, and that this culminated in the indoctrination of the Sea Org or in auditing with the "Security Check". However, while you could characterize all auditing as mind control, you could also characterize all sales as mind control, as well, or any other form of interaction where you are trying to get another being with a mind to change their behavior or thoughts/feelings as mind control, and therefore, I feel it's kind of a meaningless term used to characterize any methods which we want to disparage without actually saying anything at all useful.

UM, good thinking there. I like what you said.

Lately, I'm appreciating the basics of logic.

Thanks,

TG1
 
Conversation, to some extent, is mind control. Capitalizing the term doesn't change it. "Mind Control". Ooga Bugga! I think that there is some truth to the idea that Hubbard wanted to dominate the minds of his followers, and that this culminated in the indoctrination of the Sea Org or in auditing with the "Security Check". However, while you could characterize all auditing as mind control, you could also characterize all sales as mind control, as well, or any other form of interaction where you are trying to get another being with a mind to change their behavior or thoughts/feelings as mind control, and therefore, I feel it's kind of a meaningless term used to characterize any methods which we want to disparage without actually saying anything at all useful.

Sure the power of suggestion is used quite often use especially in advertising and it certainly can be considered mind control to a certain extent, but in the case of Scientology it goes well beyond mere suggestions Scientology is essentially a spy and mind-control network set up to extract the most money it can from it’s members as well as to enforce the maximum amount of production out of each individual, at minimal or no cost to the organization, and it uses mind control to achieve these goals.

Anything which brings light and transparency to the con game used by Scientology is useful, no matter what it's called or how it is worded.
 

AnonKat

Crusader
Sure the power of suggestion is used quite often use especially in advertising and it certainly can be considered mind control to a certain extent, but in the case of Scientology it goes well beyond mere suggestions Scientology is essentially a spy and mind-control network set up to extract the most money it can from it’s members as well as to enforce the maximum amount of production out of each individual, at minimal or no cost to the organization, and it uses mind control to achieve these goals.

Anything which brings light and transparency to the con game used by Scientology is useful, no matter what it's called or how it is worded.

once it did not cost so much And i believe the older exes tell it use to be fun.

These extremes were not always this extreme.

We don'rt ewant to go of hating all scientologists for wanting to practice it within the limits of the law

scientology.jpg
 
Top