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Aussie media going ballistic!

Carmel

Crusader
<snip>

It is all GREAT news and even better - people are listening!
Yep, people in Oz are certainly listening.....the convictions in France have had a big effect here.

The info we all have, can be/is just too 'incredible' to be believed. The outcome of the case in France, is helping to bridge the gap between what is 'believable' and what actually goes on within the CofS.
 

Div6

Crusader
Awesome video, thanks for posting it. Disconnection exists; ask anyone who has most of their family not speaking to them because they are expelled and declared how it feels, exactly. It occured to me that many people in Anzo may not have seen the original 3 part St. Petersburg Times newspaper presentation that started this current feeding frenzy. Here it is:

http://www.tampabay.com/specials/2009/reports/project/ and also look inside for video interviews with Marty and Amy. The later update included Jeff Hawkins, as more people came forward. The CofS has spent upwards of $25 million countering this with a huge distribution of Freedoms to every household in Pinellas County where Flag is located. My neighbors believe the Times, and consider the CofS to be simply admitting guilt by slandering those who came forward. Note: these videos are not edited, and the full answers by these long time Int. base staff are incedibly interesting to see. I found Amy Scobee to be particularly compelling in her testimony. She was not assaulted personally, but witnessed it being done to others on many occasions.
The St. Petersburg Times is set to run another blockbuster story this Sunday. DM beating people up is not the end, it's the tip of the iceberg. Did you notice, from the Australian press interest, that this is right on their scandal wavelength? What is coming next is scandal, scandal, scandal...
SCANDAL that tabloids wish they could come up with. It will be too much for the parishoners to tolerate. Backing DM because he has achieved" more expansion in the last 5 years than in the previous 50"? Hah! Maybe in pretty, empty buildings. The IAS worldwide paid membership is still under 100,000, probably under 50,000. THAT is the only stat they can go by. They are lying their asses off.

Can you try to pick up some copies of the Sunday SP Times? I have a real need for the hard copy.......thnks.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
A great article from the Jack the Insider/The Australian: There are some interesting comments
http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com...php/theaustralian/comments/l_ron_hubbard_can/

L. Ron Hubbard can't change your life

Scientology is back in the news and for all the wrong reasons. The cult, based on science fiction and much loved by American celebrities is finding itself increasingly on the outs with Europe’s judiciary.

On October 27, a French court found that the organisation was guilty of taking advantage of its members and of “commercial harassment” of potential members.

There were six Scientology officials convicted; three with organised fraud who received suspended jail sentences, ranging from 10 months to two years. The head of Scientology in France, Alain Rosenberg was fined almost $A50,000 and given a two year suspended jail term. The other two defendants received fines of $A3,000 and $A1,500.

The Scientology “Celebrity Centre” in France was fined $A650,000 and a Scientology bookstore received a fine of $A325,000.

Recent amendments to French law prohibited the organisation from being banned in France but there remains the prospect that Scientology will be blacklisted if there are any subsequent instances of fraud brought to the attention of the courts.

In Belgium, Scientology finds itself in the dock at the moment while the Germans have already banned the organisation.

In the United Kingdom, Scientology is not considered a religious institution and when Scientology sought tax exempt status in 1999, this was summarily rejected.

The standard defence from Scientology is that the organisation and its followers (some might say customers) are suffering religious persecution. For them, prosecutions such as the one two days ago in France are a type of latter day witch burning. There is a massive global conspiracy, scientologists say, and liken themselves to the early Mormons who felt obliged to take up arms to fight for their freedom.

The comparison works in one sense at least because both the founder of Scientology, L. Ron Hubbard and the founder of Mormonism, Joseph Smith Jr. were convicted fraudsters.

Unlike many European nations, the hand of friendship has been extended from the governments in the US, Australia and New Zealand to the sons and daughters of Hubbard.

All three countries (and a number of others including Spain, Slovenia, Taiwan and South Africa) consider Scientology to be exempt from taxes. In Australia, Scientology goes under the name of the Church of Scientology.

Australia once led the world in bringing Scientology to account. In the 1960s, Scientology was banned in three states and the Victorian Government banned the scientologists’ tool of the trade, the e-meter, a black box device designed to test a person’s “wellness” during an “audit.”

But in 1982, the judicial sages in the High Court determined that Scientology is a religion thus could be extended tax exempt status.

In a difficult judgement, the High Court did not seek to define exactly what a religion is other than to say it could be described as a number of fruits who congregate together to hang on the every word of an even fruitier leader. The judgment included this interesting passage: “Charlatanism is a necessary price of religious freedom, and if a self-proclaimed teacher persuades others to believe in a religion which he propounds, lack of sincerity or integrity on his part is not incompatible with the religious character of the beliefs, practices and observances accepted by his followers.”

While I understand the judgment, in my view Scientology is not a religion. It is first and foremost a profit making enterprise. Its net worth is almost impossible to measure due partly to its tax exempt status in the US and elsewhere and the labyrinthine structure it operates under but Scientology is worth billions and turns over hundreds of millions every year.

Of course one might say the same thing about the Roman Catholic Church or the Anglican Church.

Scientology is a cult because it practices what it calls “disconnection”. Scientology members are directed to stop all contact with family members who are critical of its methods. This type of enforced alienation provides a textbook definition of a cult.

So what is Scientology all about? Well, I can’t quote from its texts as these are all under copyright and trademark protected. The organisation has been known to sue anybody who quotes from its texts or uses its emblems without permission.

So in my own words, it all goes back to an alien called Xenu who was the dictator of the ‘Galactic Confederacy’. Around 75 million years ago, Xenu brought billions of aliens to Earth in a spaceship that looked suspiciously like an old DC-8. Xenu stacked them around volcanoes and blew them up with hydrogen bombs. However, it all came a cropper when the souls of the billions of these alien ne’er do wells clustered together and stuck to the bodies of the living. And these souls continue to wreak chaos and havoc today.

In other words, Scientology is steeped in Gnosticism – the belief that humans are divine souls trapped in a world created by an imperfect god (or alien dictator in this case). There’s also a grab bag collection of street corner Buddhism, Hinduism and quasi-religious therapy thrown in for good measure.

Is it dangerous? Well, yes and no in much the same way as a shark would only be deemed dangerous if it bit you.

Scientology’s public enemy number one is psychiatry. Scientologists consider psychiatry to be a lethal combination of necromancy and pseudo science. Scientologists are actively discouraged from engaging in any form of psychiatric therapy.

This is where Scientology’s manifest and ugliest failures have occurred.

In Sydney in 2007, a young woman was charged with murdering her father and sister and seriously injuring her mother. The young woman who could not be named, suffered a range of serious mental health problems.

It was alleged that she was denied psychiatric treatment due to her parents’ beliefs in Scientology.

And in 1995 in Florida a 36 year-old woman, Lisa McPherson died while in the care of scientologists. McPherson, too suffered acute mental illness.

Records show that McPherson was placed in isolation as part of a Scientology program known as the Introspection Rundown. Weeks later, scientologists drove McPherson to a hospital where a Scientologist doctor was in attendance. They had driven past four hospitals to get there.

McPherson was pronounced dead on arrival. An autopsy revealed multiple contusions and insect bites on her body.

And that’s the problem with cults like Scientology. They promote a lot of easy answers to complex problems; easy answers in this case provided by a convicted criminal and science fiction author and not a very good one at that.

Over to you ...
 

Carmel

Crusader
A great article from the Jack the Insider/The Australian: There are some interesting comments
http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com...php/theaustralian/comments/l_ron_hubbard_can/

Hmm! The article starts with "Scientology is back in the news and for all the wrong reasons", but I can't see where that point or argument is made (in the article), and I don't agree with and/or understand the statement.

In Oz, I reckon that Scn is back in the news for the RIGHT reasons this time.....not over looney tune religious beliefs or the like, but this time over 'serious' issues, like FRAUD and COVER-UPS. Hopefully soon, Scientology will again be in the news in this country, for its stack of abuses of human rights.

Yep, some interesting comments - "Australia once led the world in bringing Scientology to account". Maybe that's something Australia could do again.
 

Spirited

Patron with Honors
Certainly has been a bit in the media lately.
What are the chances of Alex being groomed to take over tommys PR position? :whistling:I thought Virginia usually handled the "hard core" interviews.

I just cant get my head around how people like Alex that are on the front lines and exposed to all that is going on around the world, and also seeing all on the inside as well, still stand defiant that all is well in the world of scientology and stay in? Is she just blind or dumb?? both??
I just dont get it!!!
 
Certainly has been a bit in the media lately.
What are the chances of Alex being groomed to take over tommys PR position? :whistling:I thought Virginia usually handled the "hard core" interviews.

I just cant get my head around how people like Alex that are on the front lines and exposed to all that is going on around the world, and also seeing all on the inside as well, still stand defiant that all is well in the world of scientology and stay in? Is she just blind or dumb?? both??
I just dont get it!!!



I think the scientologists call it "mutual out ruds".
 

Spirited

Patron with Honors
I'd say she will need them flown after that little confronting convo.
I just think that she is just plain old "THICK"! as in duh!!
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Hmm! The article starts with "Scientology is back in the news and for all the wrong reasons", but I can't see where that point or argument is made (in the article), and I don't agree with and/or understand the statement.

In Oz, I reckon that Scn is back in the news for the RIGHT reasons this time.....not over looney tune religious beliefs or the like, but this time over 'serious' issues, like FRAUD and COVER-UPS. Hopefully soon, Scientology will again be in the news in this country, for its stack of abuses of human rights.

Yep, some interesting comments - "Australia once led the world in bringing Scientology to account". Maybe that's something Australia could do again.

I'm sure he means the wrong reasons from scientology's point of view! Who would want such bad press?
 

Iknowtoomuch

Gold Meritorious Patron
Certainly has been a bit in the media lately.
What are the chances of Alex being groomed to take over tommys PR position? :whistling:I thought Virginia usually handled the "hard core" interviews.

I just cant get my head around how people like Alex that are on the front lines and exposed to all that is going on around the world, and also seeing all on the inside as well, still stand defiant that all is well in the world of scientology and stay in? Is she just blind or dumb?? both??
I just dont get it!!!



I thought about this as well. Alex is WAY better than Tommy is. She's a great liar.
 

Once bitten

Patron Meritorious
She said, Oh we don't say people are or aren't Scientologists, we don't talk about people that way, and then she says her family aren't scientologists and that she has lots of friends who aren't scientologists. Why doesn't she say WOGS and tell the truth??

I felt so much pity for her.

When we were outside the building in Glebe St she came out and said to me 'Do you have an upset?' OMG! I couldn't believe it. Yes I do, I said. My 16yr-old DAUGHTER ISN'T ALLOWED TO MEET HER GRAND FATHER. HE'S NOT ALLOWED TO COME OUT AND MEET HER. Isn't that bad enough?

She was very gracious, though. She said, 'I'm sorry about your upset'.

They still haven't met. But, oh, I forgot. There is no disconnection policy.
 

Axiom142

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yes, well she didn't actually lie... she, rather cleverly, changed the context of the question and then answered the altered question.

She took it in the context of "Are scn'ists made to disconnect from non-scn'ists?" (an opening which Larry fed her) and answered that inapplicable question.

That, of course, is not the context of the Haggis statement on disconnection nor the issue at hand.

The misdirecting answer was "accepted" by the misdirected interviewer.

Panda,

You are right that Larry allowed himself to be misdirected, but Alex still lied.

This is what was said starting at approx 7:00:

Larry: “Alex, Paul Haggis claims the Church encourages followers to disconnect from non-believers. Is that right?"

Alex: “That’s not true.”


Firstly, this was a sloppy question, for if the presenters had done their homework properly, they would have known that the issue was really to do with Scientologists being forced to disconnect from people whom the CoS consider ‘critical’, ‘suppressive’ or in some other way harmful to the CoS. This does not just mean non-believers.

But, regardless of that poorly worded question, Alex was still lying. The CoS encourages people to disconnect from non-believers and believers. And if they refuse to disconnect, they are expelled from the CoS. I have seen this happen myself several times and was even threatened myself with being declared for being connected to suppressive groups (connected = reading critical websites).

So, Alex YOU ARE LYING and you know you are. Is this what you got into Scientology for? So that you could appear on television, telling lies and covering up abuses within your ‘church’?

This situation is just very indicative of the mess than the CoS has found itself in now. The chief mouthpiece for the CoS, Tommy Davis, told lies about disconnection to CNN some time ago. Now, they are trapped in a corner and cannot change that stance without losing face. So, now all the mouthpieces around the world have to say the same thing as they cannot be seen to disagree with Davis. And so they pile lie upon lie and lose any credibility they might have had left.

Axiom142
 

Cherished

Silver Meritorious Patron
Certainly has been a bit in the media lately.
What are the chances of Alex being groomed to take over tommys PR position? :whistling:I thought Virginia usually handled the "hard core" interviews.

Lol. I think you know the answer is "no". She's not sufficiently competent.

Brian Fesler from Nashville/Minneapolis did a very good job in an extraordinary interview this week on radio.

http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2009/10/mischke_show_no_157.php

It's easily the best interview (from the perspective of a great interviewer) I've heard in the last 2 years on the CoS. This guy was respectful and interested in the answers, but relentless in pressing the inconsistencies and issues he saw. Brian Fesler seems to be a very nice guy, and not one of the robot PR guys. He was unusually reasonable, actually.

Anyway, back to Australia!!! MOAR to come!!!!
 

Spirited

Patron with Honors
hiya cherished. it really was a tongue in cheek comment , hence my smoking face at the end, however Tommy davis is totally incompetent and has the job, so nothing would surprise me now days.
yes i'd say there is more to come. scientology is not in good standing in australia with the public and St petes times are keeping the fires burning on the subject and it will filter through the media as it has been. :)
 
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