Australian Senate rejects Scientology inquiry call

skollie

Silver Meritorious Patron
The bright side of this is that every Aussie who reads a newspaper or watches TV, has been educated about the evils that go on inside CoS. I doubt that they are getting very many new members.
:thumbsup:
 

dontscamme

Patron Meritorious
Eric Abetz made me really cross. The fact that he seemed to think Scientologists have free recourse to the police and judiciary shows that he has not been hearing those speaking out and has no understanding of the strictures of Scientology.

Most of the abuses are not police issues. Am I seriously going to go to the police and say, "I worked 100 hours last week," if I am in a cult?

Why doesn't he simply require 'religious' organisations to abide by the same rules as other employers?

I thought he was mind-bogglingly out of touch with the issues at hand, and the mood of the electorate.

Either Mr. Abetz doesn't understand what cults are, or he is feigning ignorance for political reasons.

One of the better definitions of a cult was posted on ESMB by Tim Skog (RIP, Tim):

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=190431&postcount=1

1. Internal control: the amount of internal political power exercised by leader(s) over members.
2. Wisdom claimed by leader(s): the amount of infallibility declared about decisions.
3. Wisdom credited to leader(s) by members; the amount of trust in decisions made by leader(s).
4. Dogma: the rigidity of reality concepts taught; the amount of doctrinal inflexibility.
5. Recruiting: the emphasis put on attracting new members; the amount of proselytizing.
6. Front groups: the number of subsidiary groups using names different from that of the main group.
7. Wealth: the amount of money and/or property desired or obtained; the degree of emphasis on members' donations.
8. Political power: the amount of external political influence desired or obtained.
9. Sexual manipulation of members by leader(s); the amount of control of sex lives of members.
10. Censorship: the amount of control over members' access to outside opinions on group: its doctrines: or its leader(s).
11. Dropout control: the intensity of efforts directed at preventing or returning dropouts.
12. Endorsement of violence when used by or for the group or its leader(s).
13. Paranoia: the amount of fear concerning real or imagined enemies: the perceived power of opponents.
14. Grimness: the amount of disapproval concerning jokes about the group, its doctrines, or its leader(s).

I have bolded the points above which help to explain why a cult member is extremely unlikely to go to the police with a complaint about his or her cult.
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
I see in each of the speeches, a range of disapproval from undesirable to unwanted to outright censor and disgust of the actions carried out by the Scientology organization.

However, Senator Abetz appears to have bought the Scientology tek of dead agenting even his parliamentary cohorts. It parallels the PR of the cult when they say "other religions" have done wrong so it is right that Scientology can do the same wrongs.

The Senate really needs to look at it's responsibility to the human rights of it's nations citizens and reestablish a proper balance between the entities within the nation. I thought the senior organization in the country, Parliament, is established to carry out governance, by establishing laws directed at fairness upon the land?

In my letters to the Senators, I have iterated that the Scientology organization will stop at nothing, including taking over control of the government itself to accomplish their goals. One of the key trump cards being shuffled about in the senate is the apparent untouchable religious card. I say the government look above that to the human rights and fairness issues and quit being curtailed by vested interests. Senator Milne compassionately and passionately said it with much more emphasis. Yeah!!

And you just got to love how Senator Evans stated that the word of the abuses should at least be an Orange Light if not a Red Light to anyone looking at the Scientology organization.:yes:
 
This is from 1998, but I think it is relevant to what is happening in Australia right now.

Despite all the overwhelming current evidence and historical data about scientology abusing it's members and taking advantage of it's tax free status and obviously hiding behind it's false religious cloaking some Senators and members of Parliament are refusing to even investigate.

This makes me wonder: What does scientology have on these cowards? How is the cult shuddering them into silence?



http://www.factnet.org/Scientology/judge_tampering.html

http://www.rickross.com/reference/scientology/Scien54.html


I'd love *that* to be printed in the OZ newspapers -or an ABC doco specifically dealing with the scientology cult's history of corrupting the law.
 

DavidM

Patron with Honors
There has certainly been a shift towards more in favour of an inquiry. The exes have done an excellent job in Canberra. :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
...Nationals Senator Nigel Scullion said he supported the inquiry but would not be crossing the floor to vote for it without his colleagues' support.

"Xenophon is a stubborn bastard and he's going to keep going and good luck to him," he said.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/03/18/2849501.htm?section=justin

This article puts forward an explanation for why the major parties are reluctant to support the inquiry and it points out the hypocrisy of their excuses:
Not all grievances are created equal in politics
MARK DAVIS
March 19, 2010 - 8:21AM
When allegations emerged that shonky insulation installers operating under the Federal Government's home insulation program had exposed householders to the risk of fires and workers to injury or death, the Liberal and National Parties promptly referred the matter to a Senate inquiry.

And when trade unions claimed that Australia Post was cutting its workers compensation costs by using company doctors to force injured employees back to work prematurely, the Labor Party was more than willing to ask a Senate committee to inquire.

But yesterday, despite credible accounts tabled in Parliament of harassment, assault and fraud by the Church of Scientology, Labor, Liberal and National Senators all joined forces to defeat a move by the South Australian independent Senator Nick Xenophon for an inquiry.

You might have thought the role of Senate committees should include investigating serious grievances and claims of mistreatment by citizens who have nowhere else to go because of gaps in the legal system.

But not all grievances, it seems, are created equal.

The Opposition is more interested in allegations which lend themselves to political point-scoring against the Government. The Government, in turn, prefers Senate inquiries which give its allies in the union movement a forum to ventilate industrial grievances.

Senator Xenophon first raised his concerns about Scientology in the Senate last November.

He tabled letters from former members, officials and staff alleging abusive practices inside the Church including assault, imprisonment, torture, covering up sexual abuse, blackmail and embezzlement...
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/polit...-created-equal-in-politics-20100319-qiws.html
 

Carmel

Crusader
Quotes from this article:
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/senate-rejects-scientology-inquiry-20100318-qgge.html


"The motion was defeated 33 votes to 6, with Liberal Bill Heffernan pointedly abstaining."


"Senator Xenophon will introduce a third Senate motion when parliament resumes in May. "I call on my parliamentary colleagues to spend the next month and a half finding out more about these claims of abuse," he said in a statement."


"Government Senate leader Chris Evans said he was no fan of the Church of Scientology and was "personally open" to an inquiry."


"Earlier, parliamentarians seemed to be warming to the idea of an inquiry.

Nationals Senator John Williams left open his support for an inquiry and his colleague, Country-Liberal Party senator Nigel Scullion, said he would lobby his colleagues to support the move, but wouldn't cross the floor.

The Nationals' Barnaby Joyce and Labor MP Jodie Campbell also met a group of former Scientologists outside Parliament House, with Senator Joyce inviting them to a meeting."



Note that some Labour, the Coalition (which includes the Nationals) and some Liberals are making different noises now.
 

The Great Zorg

Gold Meritorious Patron
RE: Statute

I am not certain about any Statute of Limitations down under, but even so, if someone is stating that alleged abuses surpass existing limitations then is that not an argument for an inquiry, since charges, investigation and possible prosecution is impossible? An inquiry would therefore be the only answer to chronic criminal behaviour that has passed any limitation. :confused2:

A companion thought and comment to that observation would be including the concept of not dealing with 'old statute limited crimes' until it escalates to murder? :confused2:
 
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Illegal Alien

Patron with Honors
Yea this is not over

Carmel hit it on the nail in another thread "This is a Journey"

I found this quote

"You just need to be a flea against injustice. Enough committed fleas biting strategically can make even the biggest dog uncomfortable and transform even the biggest nation."
 

byte301

Crusader
I am not certain about any Statute of Limitations down under, but even so, if someone is stating that alleged abuses surpass existing limitations then is that not an argument for an inquiry, since charges, investigation and possible prosecution is impossible? An inquiry would therefore be the only answer to chronic criminal behaviour that has passed any limitation. :confused2:

A companion though and comment to that observation would be including the concept of not dealing with 'old statute limited crimes' until it escalates to murder? :confused2:

I agree. We have statements from exes from the 1950's continuing to present time about abuse by the CoS. If that doesn't raise red flags then what would?
 

Cherished

Silver Meritorious Patron
Thanks for posting HD. :)

Yep, good on ya Janette, you've really made a difference. :thumbsup:

Just wanting to add my real support for Janette. What courage! I trust Janette will either see these posts or that Liz will pass on our heartfelt appreciation for what Janette did on Wednesday. I understand that Janette really impacted politicans across the house. I really admire you, Janette. It cannot have been easy to stand in front of all of those cameras and know that your very private history was about to be splashed across the media. Even as I was thinking to myself - I hope this woman is not alone and has other ex-scn's to support her - and began the first thoughts about messaging Rohan to that effect, there was Liz at Janette's side and I knew that all was well on that front.

Women across Australia will have been affected by Janette's statement (and men too). I hope that some of those most affected are current Scn's who have doubts about the abuses surfacing and that they will look that much harder as a consequence.
 

scooter

Gold Meritorious Patron
Just wanting to add my real support for Janette. What courage! I trust Janette will either see these posts or that Liz will pass on our heartfelt appreciation for what Janette did on Wednesday. I understand that Janette really impacted politicans across the house. I really admire you, Janette. It cannot have been easy to stand in front of all of those cameras and know that your very private history was about to be splashed across the media. Even as I was thinking to myself - I hope this woman is not alone and has other ex-scn's to supponrt her - and began the first thoughts about messaging Rohan to that effect, there was Liz at Janette's side and I knew that all was well on that front.

Women across Australia will have been affected by Janette's statement (and men too). I hope that some of those most affected are current Scn's who have doubts about the abuses surfacing and that they will look that much harder as a consequence.

^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^

Janette, what you did was incredibly brave and I thank you very much for it - you have helped a lot of people with your honesty and courage.:clap::clap::clap:
 

Feral

Rogue male
Just got back last night. I spent some time with my family down south before coming home.

It was a huge day for all of us. I think there were twelve of us "lobbying" for the inquiry. Senator Xen sent several of his collegues out to talk to us, there was also media from nearly all the major outlets interviewing us. And talk we did, I did four interview and spoke to three senators, was so busy I'm not sure, but I think that was typical of the whole group, that's a lot of ground to cover. A couple of the Senators listened wide eyed to our story and explanations of the way the CofS operates.

Janette was a star. All of us felt for her, the hurt was very obvious and she did such a brave job. She put a real face to the allegations of coerced abortions and despite the standard denial from OSA the truth is clear.

The vote numbers are misleading like Carmy said they won't cross the floor to vote against their party but tend to change the whole party's vote from within. Several have indicated that is their intention.

The CofS had two OSA "volunteers" there photographing us. I spoke to one of them at length, friendly like, and Nettie gave the other a hug. I think they were taken aback by that, next time I'll be more prepared and they may not return as Scientologists.

It was a good day despite the apparancy of the vote not being as strong as we hoped. The media is behind us and going by Gottabrains comment from the protest the general public has started to twig onto what those inside the cult can't see and that is just what this group is all about.

The end is nigh. Senator Xen and the Green are determined to dog the senate with this issue until they give him a way forward.

I'd like to thank every one who took the long trek to our capitol to take responsibility at a national level for the abuses perpetrated by the cult, it was quite heroic of you all.
 

Kookaburra

Gold Meritorious Patron
Good you made it home safely, Kevin. I think that big trip was well worth it. I can feel a definite shift in political and public awareness.
 

Feral

Rogue male
Thanks Kooka, it was good to see you there as well as everyone else, it was even good to see the boss. :).

It was a 1500 km round trip for us and the kids were pretty toey by the time we were back. But I wouldn't have missed it for quids.

It has been a very interesting journey. As an aside I think it has so long ago passed from the Scientologists ability to control this that they have no chance of any new membership, let alone expansion in any way shape or form. Nor do they have a hope in hell of swinging public sentiment back to the quiet tolerance of the church that was present before this all began.
 

Kutta

Silver Meritorious Patron
From Feral:

I'd like to thank every one who took the long trek to our capitol to take responsibility at a national level for the abuses perpetrated by the cult, it was quite heroic of you all.

Me too. Australia being a vast continent, it must have been a very long journey for many of you and time out from work etc. Thank you so much for walking the walk and talking the talk and being there for us, for those still in, and future potential victims. The latter are gonna be saved by the bell. There's a knock-out a-comin!!!
 

Lohan2008

Gold Meritorious Patron
they may not return

The CofS had two OSA "volunteers" there photographing us. I spoke to one of them at length, friendly like, and Nettie gave the other a hug. I think they were taken aback by that, next time I'll be more prepared and they may not return as Scientologists.
How long till we see their stories on ESMB ?
also
now our politicians can not say "we didn't know this abuse was going on"

fight goes on
This time he (Xenophon) moved a motion asking the economics committee to investigate
 

Carmel

Crusader
It's no longer a question for our Senators and senior MP's as to whether or not the CofS should be investigated.....The only question now is *how*.
 

Kookaburra

Gold Meritorious Patron
It's no longer a question for our Senators and senior MP's as to whether or not the CofS should be investigated.....The only question now is *how*.

Precisely.

I urge everyone to carefully review the senate debate, then respond to the points and concerns brought up by the senators who spoke, and email your response to each and every politician in Canberra.

One senator commented on how many individually written emails they are receiving daily. They are paying attention, now that it has been made evident that the issue will not rest in the too hard basket. Some stubborn bastard keeps pulling it back out and putting it right back in the spotlight. :coolwink:
 
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