Avatar – A Scientology Spin Off

[In present time]

It IS hard to look. In your own time . . .

well I am not sure what you mean by that, but I like the icons anyway. I do still believe in magic, that may be a semantics problem to explain what I mean there.

 

[sallydannce]

Thank you Greywolf.

Bit of a (short) story…

Through a friend of a friend type thing, I have had contact with some folks that are “high” up in Avatar. Kiwi folks, they regularly make the long trip to Florida to get a “top up” and spend money they don’t have.

The woman had been told I was part of a documentary (Inside New Zealand: How to Spot a cult: 2009). Former members of Avatar feature in the documentary (it may just be one person, I forget off-hand). In an act of deviance, the woman watched the doco. When I next saw her she hissed at me “Avatar is NOT a cult!” She was aggressive and unwilling to openly discuss things with me. I stayed calm, recognising what was going on. She was filtering – hard – any information which countered her beliefs. She was full of masked fear and self-denial, shuffling the cognitive dissonance around to remain in her comfortable "zone". Her eyes betrayed her though, for they were full of confusion and fear. I gave her a hug, a smile and wished her well.

Out of respect, I won’t reveal the personal details of these people, but I observed very messed up lives. Their behaviour was very similar to the life of a true-believer scientologist. They’d head off to Florida at a whim, to get “stuff sorted out”. They’d shut out anyone who disagreed with their chosen path - or held people at arms-length. They were very much in an “us and them” mentality and exuded that “superior attitude” to those that had not “found the way”.

It was fascinating. It reminded me of me when I had been a true believer.

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

well I am not sure what you mean by that, but I like the icons anyway. I do still believe in magic, that may be a semantics problem to explain what I mean there.

Nothing wrong with believing in magic, but remember as soon someone asks you for money, it's not magic, it's a con game. This is one of the few absolutes in life.

 

[Lurker5]

Yeah, in my life there came a time when I made a promise to my self, that if any one - or organization, or whatever - that had some kind of spiritual 'claim' asked me for money, I was DONE. If it is spiritual, it should be free, and if not, it is about someone making money off anyone seeking growth. Fuck that, I am better off on my own journey . . . And off I went. Anyone can do it, and no one is exploiting you and your goodwill and dreams.

 

[GreyWolf]

Later after I finished my masters course, (which MY masters "invited" me to take)... let me be parenthetical all over the place here; ( I was SO honoured that I was INVITED to take the masters course.) I spent a lot of time looking at the world through my OWN lens, and that lens was clean and honest and beautiful. So I really took everything at face value through my lens.
So, once again I would set out to make the world a better place with Avatar.But skip forward, AFTER masters and I flunked etc.
MY masters contacted me about this lovely plan they had for good people to make money.It was a board graph, and each person at the bottom paid two thousand dollars and the person at the top would collect something like $15,000 and take that money to go do good works. ETC.
Has anyone ever heard of this?

Ohhh, my guess is, you have. I was good at filling those boards because someone like me was perfect, because I completely believed in honesty and integrity in all things.

I got my entire neighborhood on that board, and in some starry eyed way reaslly believed that if we all carried through, then good would be done for everyone involved.

Someone I talked to sat down and went over mathematical probabilities with me, but this was NOT the realm of magick... I was set to supersede the physical universe rules.

Truth be told some really magickal things happened to me during that time. The Mason Hamlin grand piano that I had craved ever since I played one at Flag for hours a day became something I could (and did) actually acquire. This was a miracle for me, since I had a craving for piano since I can ever remember, as a very young child.

As soon as I got the piano I started to teach children to play, and it was very rewarding. Many of many of my students exceeded me, which I think is the goal of any teacher.

But in terms of the pyramid scheme my "masters" had presented to me, well it was a con. I really would have never thought they would do such a thing. I loved them both dearly.
At one point I was holding almost forty thousand dollars of cash in my closet for them, and thought nothing of it.

I know, I know, you all think I am the most naïve person ever born. But really I am not, I just believe in magic. I still do... if I lose that I will have lost everything.

I feel a teetering on the brink on this board, uncomfortable in saying personal things. And a complete unwillingness to put together a full story, even though I have so appreciated the others who have.
I never felt like a coward ever, till I came to this board, so I see I am lacking bravery for sure.

I wonder if anyone on this board knows my "masters"... probably if anyone was in so. Cal.

We understand

 

[GreyWolf]

Thank you Greywolf.

Bit of a (short) story…

Through a friend of a friend type thing, I have had contact with some folks that are “high” up in Avatar. Kiwi folks, they regularly make the long trip to Florida to get a “top up” and spend money they don’t have.

[...]

It was fascinating. It reminded me of me when I had been a true believer.

Yup. And there are so many cults out there that prey the same way.

 

[In present time]

Yeah, in my life there came a time when I made a promise to my self, that if any one - or organization, or whatever - that had some kind of spiritual 'claim' asked me for money, I was DONE. If it is spiritual, it should be free, and if not, it is about someone making money off anyone seeking growth. Fuck that, I am better off on my own journey . . . And off I went. Anyone can do it, and no one is exploiting you and your goodwill and dreams.

Yes this was my reasoning with avatar. I paid the money to train to be a "master" so if I wanted to give my time freely and teach someone the course I should have been able to. I had several friends who wanted the course after I did masters, some of them did not have the money. They may or may not have got avatar for free. Money is one of the biggest parts of the damage done to people with these self help programmes. Avatar likes to tout itself as "not a cult" because if there is any trouble after you leave they like to keep their distance.
Oh, and I forgot to mention that the last day of the course, I got back to my room... My assigned roommate had already left town and took most of my jewelry with her. I pulled it in I guess.

But my there were a load of Germans on that course. Spending time with them after class was worth the money. I loved every single one of them!

 

[Lurker5]

The thieving roommate (and in the scno/so) = so much for being 'higher' and more 'advanced', a 'master' or wizard' or whatever, so-called "BETTER" - than the rest of us plain ol' folks - sort of like flag being the most ethical and joyful place on earth .

Unfortunately for us, we have to learn our lessons the hard way, and it usually costs us. Big time. Me too. And it is the people, isn't it, the people who we latch onto and bond with, that keep us tied to the anchor for longer than we should be.

But we get a lot out of our mistakes. At least I always do. Apparently you too. THAT to me is the sign of higher beingness - LEARNING from our errors, and moving on, better for our ability to overcome adversity and move on, and STILL hang onto our humanity, in fact, become more compassionate, for having gone through so much with those who have none.

 

[phenomanon]

I wonder if she moved to Leadville? That is a lovely town.

No. I know Leadville from travelling from Texas to Aspen for skiing.
This was some old mining town that I'd never heard of. With hardly any population. I think that she thought that ppl would flood in from all over the Country to do Avatar.
Avatar did inspire.
The guy who first came to LA to deliver Avatar moved into a 3 story, new, contemporary Condo, and I thought at the time "man, he sure expects to make a lot of money with Avatar". He didn't. He had to 'fold his tent' and return to NY.
The ppl I knew who 'did' Avatar were all really happy with it, but didn't stay in the practice. Except Mark Jones and a couple others who delivered for a time. Then the next thing came along.

 

[phenomanon]

Later after I finished my masters course, (which MY masters "invited" me to take)... let me be parenthetical all over the place here; ( I was SO honoured that I was INVITED to take the masters course.) I spent a lot of time looking at the world through my OWN lens, and that lens was clean and honest and beautiful. So I really took everything at face value through my lens.
So, once again I would set out to make the world a better place with Avatar.But skip forward, AFTER masters and I flunked etc.
MY masters contacted me about this lovely plan they had for good people to make money.It was a board graph, and each person at the bottom paid two thousand dollars and the person at the top would collect something like $15,000 and take that money to go do good works. ETC.
Has anyone ever heard of this?

Ohhh, my guess is, you have. I was good at filling those boards because someone like me was perfect, because I completely believed in honesty and integrity in all things.

I got my entire neighborhood on that board, and in some starry eyed way reaslly believed that if we all carried through, then good would be done for everyone involved.

Someone I talked to sat down and went over mathematical probabilities with me, but this was NOT the realm of magick... I was set to supersede the physical universe rules.

Truth be told some really magickal things happened to me during that time. The Mason Hamlin grand piano that I had craved ever since I played one at Flag for hours a day became something I could (and did) actually acquire. This was a miracle for me, since I had a craving for piano since I can ever remember, as a very young child.

As soon as I got the piano I started to teach children to play, and it was very rewarding. Many of many of my students exceeded me, which I think is the goal of any teacher.

But in terms of the pyramid scheme my "masters" had presented to me, well it was a con. I really would have never thought they would do such a thing. I loved them both dearly.
At one point I was holding almost forty thousand dollars of cash in my closet for them, and thought nothing of it.

I know, I know, you all think I am the most naïve person ever born. But really I am not, I just believe in magic. I still do... if I lose that I will have lost everything.

I feel a teetering on the brink on this board, uncomfortable in saying personal things. And a complete unwillingness to put together a full story, even though I have so appreciated the others who have.
I never felt like a coward ever, till I came to this board, so I see I am lacking bravery for sure.

I wonder if anyone on this board knows my "masters"... probably if anyone was in so. Cal.

That "being invited" to be a Master was copied from the invitation to do the OT Levels in Scn. Scn'ists are so thrilled to be invited to do them. It's part of the trap. They feel so special. I know I did.

 

[PirateAndBum]

I just studied the Wizard course materials. Looks like Harry came up with some good stuff, better in many ways than what Hubbard devised. The problem with it is he's L Roning it. That's unfortunate indeed. The handling of identities is something Hubbard stayed pretty well clear of. Palmer goes straight into the fray.

I can see why Avatar appeals - it has a lot of "truth". I have a problem with people selling truth. Palmer took Hubbard's game plan for his biz model - total fail.

 

[In present time]

I just studied the Wizard course materials. Looks like Harry came up with some good stuff, better in many ways than what Hubbard devised. The problem with it is he's L Roning it. That's unfortunate indeed. The handling of identities is something Hubbard stayed pretty well clear of. Palmer goes straight into the fray.

I can see why Avatar appeals - it has a lot of "truth". I have a problem with people selling truth. Palmer took Hubbard's game plan for his biz model - total fail.

oh yeah, the trainers on the masters course wrong item the hell out of their students by claiming they havent handled all of their "identities"... the bullshit evaluations never end. hey maybe YOUR indentity just THINKS I have an indentity. Its ridiculous. Harry should have stayed in his tank and invested in a couple of more hits of good lsd. Yep, TOTAL FAIL trying to get rich off the whole thing. If he had something so wonderful, he could have written a couple of books and left it at that.

 

[In present time]

Thank you.

Try to not feel like a coward. Please. The telling of "the full story" is, often, full of excruciating vulnerability. Imho, it takes time to cultivate the courage to tell one's "full story". Perhaps it really doesn't matter what others think of us. Perhaps what matters is what we think of ourselves. To find peace, takes a deep deep type of self-honestly, self-love and self-respect. In my experience, this can only be achieved alone, in true dialogue with oneself. Yes, we can reach out to others for comfort, to play with various concepts, etc, but ultimately, the truth, the whole ghastly truth, the whole beautiful truth, lies within.

Naive? Hell honey I was in scientology, blissfully blind, for 20 years. Was I naive? Stupid? Dull? I don't see myself like that. I do not care how others "see" me. I used to, all the time. Pfff. I know myself the best, the dark bits, the powerful love and wonder within myself. Deep and profound and incredibly funny. There I was seeking, seeking, seeking, like some spiritually starved wretch and it turns out everything I ever desired was already within me. It's enough to make a grown woman giggle like a school-girl (and I do!)

i am seriously trying to workup the nerve to spit out the whole story. After all these years it has only recently, (during the sexual abuse permitted in scn. thread) become crystal clear that one of the aspects holding this in place for me is the fact that my ex is still a scientologist, but he doesnt know it, or does he or do i give a shit.
i'm not saying i have effectively peeled all the layers of my own onion here, but he is still a true belivier. and he uses $cn. precepts and etc. to justify to my children his treatment of me, and how i should stop dramatising, come up to p.t and etc. yes this is the man who told me when i was in transitional labour with his second child in a natural drug free childbirth, that i was "keying in my meat body and over dramatising".

so my daughters have never officially done any scientology, but i was explaining to my eldest yesterday how scn had nonetheless been a huge (if mostly invisible) part of her life. i started pointing out little attitudes and maxims etc. and it was blowing her mind. so, i want to explain to my girls that they really have had a cult in their midst for the whole of their lives!

their father totally and covertly uses the "tech" on them, in handy invalidative ways. i now see that it is important for me to make this known clearly to them so they can spot it when he does it. scientology is some of the most insidious and evil bullshit on earth, especially in the
hands of anyone that would use it to make themselves right and others wrong.

 

[PirateAndBum]

oh yeah, the trainers on the masters course wrong item the hell out of their students by claiming they havent handled all of their "identities"... the bullshit evaluations never end. hey maybe YOUR indentity just THINKS I have an indentity. Its ridiculous. Harry should have stayed in his tank and invested in a couple of more hits of good lsd. Yep, TOTAL FAIL trying to get rich off the whole thing. If he had something so wonderful, he could have written a couple of books and left it at that.

Yes, he should have written a book. It is interesting how spiritual pursuit often winds up in trying to handle the mind. I can see how this come to be. People are lost in the mazes of the mind. Pulling ones awareness back out of that is easier said than done. So people like Palmer develop methods to take apart - dissolve - mental constructs. This is a tricky business to attempt, especially when you rely on another to assist you. For they too have their own mental baggage that all too often mucks up the effort. Thus you get things like an auditor's code trying to mitigate such pitfalls. Unfortunately the existence of such code is no guarantee that it will be applied.

In playing the game of handling the mind one often loses sight of the initial target - spiritual awakening.

It's like a man that is drowning by holding tight to the side of a barrel keeping his head under water, all the while feeling helpless to do anything about all this water that is drowning him. There are some sages that come along and tell the man, "Pull your head out of the barrel my friend." But often the reply is "huh?".