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Belfast Gay Pride says no to Anonymous

xenusdad

Patron with Honors
I doubt that very much. Pride is all about gays having PRIDE in themselves. It is not a forum for the enemies of something else entirely. I think the Belfast Pride folk have made a very wise decision with regard your application.

Go to the parade & have fun, but do it in a spirit of appreciation for the gays in your life, not out of some sort of animosity for the church of L.Ron Hubbard. There are plenty of other occasions to protest the church.


Mark A. Baker

Wow! It's not only about gays having pride in themselves, it's about all the individuals and groups who support the right to be gay, including anonymous. L. Ron Hubbard did found a church, although he denied this, and scientology is in no way, shape or form, a religion. Scientology is not a recognised religion in the UK. Any person may march in a gay pride parade unless of course their intent is to cause trouble or protest someone or something legitimate, not what anonymous had in mind, sorry.
 
So why did you post like that? He stated what anons wanted to do and it wasn't about protesting the cult.

Because clearly the Belfast Pride does not want anonomous as an official part of their parade. A decision which they are wholly entitled to make.

Quite clearly they consider anons to be a distraction from the actual intent of PRIDE, which is facilitating pride & self-respect among gays. That is not the equivalent of facilitating antagonism towards homophobes, a movement more directly akin to the purposes of anonymous in attacking the Co$. That is a distinctly different state of mind and should not be confused with fostering self-respect among gays. This latter is not a principle to which anonymous as a group has shown any particular commitment.

Either way, Belfast Pride clearly wants the focus on Gay Pride, not anti-homophobic activism.

Go & have fun. Protest another day. :yes:


Mark A. Baker
 

Antagone

Patron
So why did you post like that? He stated what anons wanted to do and it wasn't about protesting the cult.

We never mentioned anywhere on our forums that we were going to protest the cult at Pride and discussion about what we could do as a group on the parade pretty much came to a halt when the organisers never replied to our application.

What is on our forum is a thread about meeting up at Custom House Square and handing out cake and fliers. The nearest thing to an offensive suggestion was playing Rick Astley :whistling:

Custom House Square is a public area and if you go to this site and dowload their Pdf file http://www.laganside.com/about.asp, you can read for yourself that.

1. Anyone wishing to organise an event in Custom House Square must approach Laganside
in the first instance to gain permission to use the Square. Events must be in keeping with
the Corporation’s aims and objectives and must be open and accessible to all.

Since there is nothing on the thread which would indicate any intention to join the parade itself, I can only assume that this part of their message,
Your application has not been approved on the basis of evidence on website forums indicating non desirable behaviour and also threatening to proceed on these actions whether or not your application is
approved. Also, for causing possible offence by singling out a religious
figure. Please note the PSNI will remove anyone trying to take part
without our approval.

refers to the Anons plans to be in Custom House Square.

If they decide to ignore my reply to them then I guess I can follow with a complaint to Laganside.
 

Antagone

Patron
Because clearly the Belfast Pride does not want anonomous as an official part of their parade. A decision which they are wholly entitled to make.

Quite clearly they consider anons to be a distraction from the actual intent of PRIDE which is facilitating pride & self-respect among gays. That is not the equivalent of facilitating antagonism towards homophobes, a movement more directly akin to the purposes of anonymous in attacking the Co$. That is a distinctly different state of mind and should not be confused with fostering self-respect among gays. This latter is not a principle to which anonymous as a group has shown any particular commitment.

Either way, Belfast Pride clearly wants the focus on Gay Pride, not anti-homophobic activism.

Go & have fun. Protest another day. :yes:


Mark A. Baker

Well isn't it rather strange that other Anonymous groups have participated in Gay Pride parades with no trouble at all? Once again I will point out to you that our intentions were to show support and not to protest the Church of Scientology.

I will also point out that since we did not get a reply to our application we made no plans to be part of the parade and if you read my above post you will see quite clearly that Belfast pride is not in the slightest bit entitled to decide who walks into Custom House Square.
 
Well isn't it rather strange that other Anonymous groups have participated in Gay Pride parades with no trouble at all? Once again I will point out to you that our intentions were to show support and not to protest the Church of Scientology.

No. It is not in the least strange. Each pride is a locally run affair. It's their party. They get to decide the arrangements.



I will also point out that since we did not get a reply to our application we made no plans to be part of the parade and if you read my above post you will see quite clearly that Belfast pride is not in the slightest bit entitled to decide who walks into Custom House Square.

Cool off. This is not about you. Either respect the rules of the local pride and have fun, or don't go. Not everything in life is about YOU and YOUR right to be interesting in public!


Mark A. Baker
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
One simple explanation for the strange "information for part-takers" in their reply: They simply used the wrong letter form, hit the wrong AutoText button, stuff like that.. I would ask them what that meant, though. :)
 
Do you really think the organisers waited nine weeks to refuse our application at the last minute? Another Belfast Anon made an application last year and never got any reply. When I applied this year I went to great lengths to explain in the application that we wouldn't be participating as a form of protest, but as a show of support and even included links to videos of other Anonymous groups participating in similar parades.

The difference is that this year some of the Belfast Anons decided they wanted to attend the event. There is a huge difference between attending a public event and holding a protest or even trying to gatecrash a parade. I really do find it difficult to believe the people at Belfast Pride are avidly following our local site, although I know the Belfast Scilons do.

However, I've said that is pure speculation on my part and I'll be happy to admit I'm wrong if evidence is produced otherwise.

It is pure speculation on my part and yes I would be very surprised if the cult did not send them propaganda regarding anonymous, but I truly believe they do not want the possibility of their event being sent off message, that being said, their response was not an explanation of their decision, it was an insult. If they do not want any help supporting their cause and spreading their message ... fuck em.
 

Antagone

Patron
No. It is not in the least strange. Each pride is a locally run affair. It's their party. They get to decide the arrangements.

They get to decide who participates in their parade. It does not give them the right to make insulting and untrue accusations against an entire group of people.

Cool off. This is not about you. Either respect the rules of the local pride and have fun, or don't go. Not everything in life is about YOU and YOUR right to be interesting in public!


Mark A. Baker

I suggest you're the one who needs to 'cool off' Mark. You're the one who seems determined to make it about me, which is quite ironic seeing as I was unable to attend the event in Belfast today.
 

Antagone

Patron
It is pure speculation on my part and yes I would be very surprised if the cult did not send them propaganda regarding anonymous, but I truly believe they do not want the possibility of their event being sent off message, that being said, their response was not an explanation of their decision, it was an insult. If they do not want any help supporting their cause and spreading their message ... fuck em.

My thoughts exactly. Anons have been in attendance at Custom House Square and I heard from them a short time ago that the moment they attempted to hand out fliers, parade marshalls approached them and ordered them to stop.

Giving out fliers to members of the public, on public property, is not against the law in Belfast.
 

Arcangel

Patron
Let Me Chime In

I'm with Mark on this one. Having been on a few American pride committees it's generally a local host committee. Esp with the issues in Ireland of the gay political agenda they most likely wanted to focus on Pride in the community.

I do take some umbrage with the tone of "but our organization has done this in other places". With cake and fliers what are you bringing or giving to the LGBT community of the city or region?

One thing I've noticed when I was on staff (with no Scn indoctrination nor training...hell I haven't even read Dianetics even now) is the arrogance and "me-ness" of culties.

Having searched and read the boards (ie ESMB or OCB, etc) the sheer arrogance of absolutes is amazing or the feelings of discrimination. Scn is a fringe at best movement and the numbers who protest are smaller.

I can see where a host committee might look at websites, not just a local action group but nationally and internationally may make that determination. Just reading alot of this I'd be cautious. The lingo, the psychotic nature of some and the overall hilarity of protesting a known cult.

Put this a different way it was the same feeling I had while on staff of being ordered to hand out Scn info in front of St Patrick's Cathedral on Easter Sunday as folks are walking out of services. How'd that make those on that very holy day feel.

Goto Pride, get some beads and rainbows, dance, frolic and have fun. Don't take protesting a cult so seriously unless this is your new life just like you had that passion in.
 

themadhair

Patron Meritorious
Esp with the issues in Ireland of the gay political agenda…
WTF is this shit? Seriously?
I do take some umbrage with the tone of "but our organization has done this in other places".
Why? People have participated under the anon banner in other communities in such events. That is a fact, and is evidence that thoroughly and completely dismantles the ‘reasoning’ (or rather bullshit) given for rejection. Is the idea that there are anons who actually care about these issues too much to understand for you and Mark?
With cake and fliers what are you bringing or giving to the LGBT community of the city or region?
Two points. Firstly, some anons are part of the LGBT community. Secondly, you could ask this question of any group participating, and it would be equally as pointless.
I can see where a host committee might look at websites, not just a local action group but nationally and internationally may make that determination. Just reading alot of this I'd be cautious.
This is where both you and Mark are ignoring relevant facts. The committee were providing with videos of where anons had participated in such events. The committee could have initiated contact with the Belfast group to discuss concerns if that was an issue. The whole act of sending an eleventh hour rejection, so that no resolution of any potential issues was possible, is bullshit of the highest order. For the committee to issue factually incorrect assertions about the group, while completely depriving them of any chance to work through the committees perceived problems in this manner, is extremely disappointing. That neither you or Mark have argued why the committee’s actual course of action was justified is interesting and telling.
Don't take protesting a cult so seriously unless this is your new life just like you had that passion in.
Did you even read the material in this thread? Or did you simply make a judgement despite the contradictory material? I don’t understand why people do that, and I especially don’t get why people do that when speaking such shit like “ Esp with the issues in Ireland of the gay political agenda…” as a basis.
 

Arcangel

Patron
Okay do you realize you were hoodwinked by a cult most thing is looney tunes and you have the balls to ask me why people may feel that way?

Yes, I can give you MANY links of the issues that are with the LGBT community of Ireland, protesting a cult probably isn't high on the agenda for gay civil rights. I'll gladly give you that under Human Rights Campaign and Human Rights Watch and leading international gay publications since you have a "MU" about it.

I could care less if you like screwing puppies on Mondays wearing a pink tutu. The host committee rejected the application, PERIOD. Per the facts of the story what's there to be complacent about?

As for your statement that "anons participate and glbt and others 'get to do'" is Scn drivel. I've never heard of an organization at a Pride both here in the States or internationally that don't have to either pay for a table or give a sizeable donation to the the local Pride Committee for the opportunity. This includes marching. Do these anons do that?

Wow bud, you've never been on a volunteer committee for anything. Shit falls through the cracks and b/c this is a crackpot cult and you have no understanding of that you really REALLY need to investigate the real world's reaction to said cult.

What service are you providing to the gay community and its relevance? 11th Hours are nothing new, hell I've seen people who have filed and had their app's accepted turned down at NY Pride. Oversight does happen.

Not in Scn land. The absolutes of stats both in and out b/c people don't just walk away and FIND A LIFE. If you've been duped why else still speak in the lexicon?

I wouldn't want to see that at Pride it'd be annoying and my friends and I would ask the relevance. What does this group do to further our community, fund our community, participate in our community as an ENTITY not as an individuals. Since there are cut and paste freaks here allow me to repeat, what do they do to participate AS AN ENTITY (I.E. a group of people that are forwarding the ideals, services and fundraising for the LGBT community) and NOT as INDIVIDUALS (singular people)? Care to answer that?

You got a form letter response as a dismissal as a way of stating you DID get contacted. So, you were invited so go. Talk to a parade marshall and have fun what's so goddamn difficult about that or we going back to the Scn absolute theory again? If you know anything about the glbt community we didn't just sit on our asses and whine we TOOK ACTION. Obviously, the anon group in Belfast missed the memo that started worldwide Gay Pride.

Yet another thing of the victim culture of Scn from being duped into a cult. lol

As for what is the relevance of issues of the Irish Gay Political Agenda? Did you really ask me that? Yeah, let's talk marriage rights, let's talk human rights, let's talk about discriminatory and hate crimes policies? That's what they march for, jesus christ, it's not about YOU. lol Yet again, Anon in the Parade does what for those issues both before, during and after in the community to CHANGE THOSE LAWS as an ENTITY not as INDIVIDUALS. I'm curious to read your reactions in the context of the questions. And please spare me the drivel of saving people from LRH tech and that nonsense.
 

byte301

Crusader
This thread has turned into a mess.

How many people have posted on this board about being in the cult and being gay and how horrible it was for them?

So educating gay people about a cult who thinks they can "cure" them and thinks they need to be "cured" is now wrong?

Anon has been going to Gay Pride events for two years. They get cheered by the bystanders and as far as I know there has never been a problem.

BTW there are gay anons.
 

themadhair

Patron Meritorious
Okay do you realize you were hoodwinked by a cult most thing is looney tunes and you have the balls to ask me why people may feel that way?
WTF????? Looks like someone is really fond of making untrue assumptions. You may want to look to that.
Yes, I can give you MANY links of the issues that are with the LGBT community of Ireland, protesting a cult probably isn't high on the agenda for gay civil rights.
Have you watched any of the footage from anon participation in other pride parades? Or did you not bother to do that in case you risked realising that your assumptions were grossly mistaken? You amy want to look to that.
Per the facts of the story what's there to be complacent about?
You mean the fact that the committee’s rejection reasons were demonstrably false and their method of announcing the rejection the day immediately before the event aren’t relevant? Why are you ignoring these two, imo rather important, facts?
As for your statement that "anons participate and glbt and others 'get to do'" is Scn drivel.
WTF are talking about???? I’m am not, nor have I ever been, a Scientologist. If you ability to make assumptions has superseded you ability for rational analysis then I strongly suggest you go look to that.
I've never heard of an organization at a Pride both here in the States or internationally that don't have to either pay for a table or give a sizeable donation to the the local Pride Committee for the opportunity.
WTF are you talking about???
Wow bud, you've never been on a volunteer committee for anything.
You really seem to have a massive problem with these untrue assumptions. Seriously, go look into it.
Shit falls through the cracks and b/c this is a crackpot cult and you have no understanding of that you really REALLY need to investigate the real world's reaction to said cult.
Have you looked up the other anon participations? You may want to that, because until you do you will continue to spew ignorant shit like this.
What service are you providing to the gay community and its relevance?
This question can be asked of any of the participants, and it is equally as pointless. The whole idea of the gay pride march is to allow people to display just that. This is what the anons have done at such events in the past, and were intending to do that here. Is this difficult for you?
11th Hours are nothing new, hell I've seen people who have filed and had their app's accepted turned down at NY Pride.
Fucking out of order it is, especially when the reasons for rejection were demonstrably false. That you are attempt to brush this central point under the carpet makes me think you really haven’ thought this through. Maybe this is why you make so many false assumptions?
Oversight does happen.
And only by complaining when they happen can they be rectified. As it stands it does not look like an oversight, but a clear case of someone fucking up.
Not in Scn land.
WTF are you on about?????
If you've been duped why else still speak in the lexicon?
WTF are you talking about???? Dude, you really need to sort out your assumptions problem.
What does this group do to further our community, fund our community, participate in our community as an ENTITY not as an individuals.
The group educates about a cult that has a drastic anti-gay ideology. Some members of that group, who are either gay themselves or highly supportive of LGBT causes, wanted to participate on the day to help support the LGBT cause. This what anons have done in locations such as San Diego. The majority of such groups at these events, while not cult-protesters, are there for the exact same reasons. What is difficult about this?
Care to answer that?
The same questions applies to every group, and the answer is largely the same.
So, you were invited so go.
A reading problem as well as an assumption problem. Seriously, you should look into that.
Talk to a parade marshall and have fun what's so goddamn difficult about that or we going back to the Scn absolute theory again?
WTF are talking about???
Obviously, the anon group in Belfast missed the memo that started worldwide Gay Pride.
You really do have a problem with the whole concept that some anons may…*gasp*…be supportive of LGBT issues?
Yet another thing of the victim culture of Scn from being duped into a cult. Lol
I see that assumptions problem has cropped up again. Seriously, look into it.
That's what they march for, jesus christ, it's not about YOU. lol
The fact that anons wanted to march is support of those issues really is beyond you isn’t it? Seriously, look at previous anon participation in these events because, at present, your misconception on this makes you look incredibly ignorant.
And please spare me the drivel of saving people from LRH tech and that nonsense.
The only two people in this thread who think Scientology or LRH or the tech are relevant to this are you and Mark. I find it curious that you are shoe-horning this into the discussion only to claim it isn’t relevant. You are the only one who is bringing it up.

TL;DR:
You make far too many untrue assumptions, you appear to be completely clueless as to what anon participation would entail (and seemingly are not inclined to go find out) and you really appear unable to understand that the reason some anons wanted to participate is because they support LGBT issues.
 
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