Bespectacled Clears?

[Demented Hubbatd]

I put a question mark in the thread title because I want to know how the church top brass explain the glasses anomaly to the faithful.

Shortly after joining Sea Org I discovered that a lot of Clears wear glasses, which was kind of shocking to me. But I didn't blame Hubbard for that. I thought that the Tech was perfect but the auditors were not -- they declared these trusting people Clear by mistake. I also came to an "obvious" conclusion that majority of the Dianetics auditors working at Big Blue were not qualified for their job.

Five months later, after being kicked out of Sea Org, I was attending a Scientology seminar. The speaker, David Housen, said, " The WOGs always ask why the Clears wear glasses." The audience burst into laughter as if crazy David's remark was funny. But I thought that the audience were completely nuts.

Several months later, at another Dianetics seminar, I was blasting Dianetics auditors for erroneously declaring people, who were not cleared, Clear. An LRH biographer joined me. According to him. none of the people declared Clear by LRH wore glasses. I had a feeling that the rest of the audience were too afraid to side with us, despite thinking that we were right.

Is there any official explanation of this Clear controversy?

 

[pineapple]

I put a question mark in the thread title because I want to know how the church top brass explain the glasses anomaly to the faithful.

Shortly after joining Sea Org I discovered that a lot of Clears wear glasses, which was kind of shocking to me. But I didn't blame Hubbard for that. I thought that the Tech was perfect but the auditors were not -- they declared these trusting people Clear by mistake. I also came to an "obvious" conclusion that majority of the Dianetics auditors working at Big Blue were not qualified for their job.

Five months later, after being kicked out of Sea Org, I was attending a Scientology seminar. The speaker, David Housen, said, " The WOGs always ask why the Clears wear glasses." The audience burst into laughter as if crazy David's remark was funny. But I thought that the audience were completely nuts.

Several months later, at another Dianetics seminar, I was blasting Dianetics auditors for erroneously declaring people, who were not cleared, Clear. An LRH biographer joined me. According to him. none of the people declared Clear by LRH wore glasses. I had a feeling that the rest of the audience were too afraid to side with us, despite thinking that we were right.

Is there any official explanation of this Clear controversy?

Well, we know that there are no clears as Hubbard described them in DMSMH. But, to give the devil his due, I don't think he actually promised that a clear would not wear glasses. He implies that it's possible for a clear to give up his glasses, but doesn't make any guarantees (note bold).

One of the incidental things which happen to a clear is that his eyesight, if it had been bad as an aberree, generally improves markedly, and with some slight attention will recover optimum perception in time. (Far from an optician's argument against dianetics, this assures rather good business, for clears have been known, at treatment's end, to have to buy, in rapid succession, five pairs of glasses to compensate adjusting eyesight; and many aberrees, cleared late in life, settle down ocularly at a maximum a little under optimum.)The eyesight was reduced in the aberree on an organic basis by his aberrations so that the perceptic organ itself was reduced from optimum operating function. With the removal of aberrations, repeated tests have proven that the body makes a valiant effort to reconstruct back to optimum.

-- DMSMH, pg 27-28

https://ronsorg.ch/wp-content/uploads/Dianetics-Modern-Science-Of-Mental-Health.pdf

Who was this "LRH biographer" you mention?

Who were these "people declared clear by LRH"? The only person I know of that he ever declared clear was Sonya Bianca at that Shrine Auditorium fiasco in 1950.

 

[ThetanExterior]

I think the main problem is that Hubbard didn't know what he was talking about.

Five years after Dianetics came out he published Dianetics 55 in which he says the state of Clear as discussed in Dianetics is now known as the state of Thetan Exterior in Scientology.

Then in 1964 he came out with the Book Of Case Remedies in which he says the state of Clear is simply "a gradient up to Homo Novis" but beyond that is the state of OT. He just kept changing it because he was full of BS.

People who knew him have said he always wanted to experience being exterior but he never achieved it. So how come he used to talk about it as though he was an expert? Because he was a blowhard.

blowhard: A very boastful and talkative person.

 

[pineapple]

I think the main problem is that Hubbard didn't know what he was talking about.

Five years after Dianetics came out he published Dianetics 55 in which he says the state of Clear as discussed in Dianetics is now known as the state of Thetan Exterior in Scientology.

Then in 1964 he came out with the Book Of Case Remedies in which he says the state of Clear is simply "a gradient up to Homo Novis" but beyond that is the state of OT. He just kept changing it because he was full of BS.

People who knew him have said he always wanted to experience being exterior but he never achieved it. So how come he used to talk about it as though he was an expert? Because he was a blowhard.

blowhard: A very boastful and talkative person.

Agreed. No defense of Hubbard or dianetics intended. Just saying that the idea of "bespectacled clears" isn't absurd as the OP seems to believe. Hubbard doesn't actually promise that a clear will have perfect eyesight (though he holds out the promise that this might happen).

 

[F.Bullbait]

Like any good huckster, he exaggerated. The lame didn't walk and the blind didn't see. But it sounded good to the rubes.

 

[WildKat]

Some "Clears" probably pretend their eyesight is perfect by wearing contact lenses.

Then there's the age thing....how many people over 40 do you know that don't at least need reading glasses?

I think Hubs became a recluse in later life for two reasons.

One, the avoidance of lawsuits, process servers.

Two, the avoidance of having his flock of admirers see that he was just another old man falling apart. That there was no truth or substance to the claims of Clear and OT. He would be proof of the concept that "If Hubbard isn't making it, what chance does anyone else have?"

 

[Out/Int]

When we were in and active - we would occasionally hire people to help us in our small business.

A "Clear" was hired because, well, they were "Clear"

The "Clear" was supposed to pay bills and do very light book keeping. They said they could handle that - they worked in Treasury at the Org.

The first day the "Clear" worked.... The "Clear" spent all day (8 hours at $18 per hour) "clearing up words in the line of business we were in.

Kid you not!

We let the "Clear" go and hired a Woggy Wog who knew how to write checks and balance the checkbook.

 

[Gizmo]

Yes, I saw " clears " wearing glasses & wondered WTF - but only wondered & didn't speak out.

I gave touch assists to " clears " who were sniffling away from a cold. I wondered, but, I didn't speak out.

One day, still wondering - but not speaking out loud - I just had to walk away.

What got me was that no matter what policy said invariably someone else pulled out a policy that said just the opposite of the reference I had.

So it is with glasses - glasses / no glasses - somebody can come with a reference that one says this & the other says that. Standard tech !

scientology is the only game in the universe where opposite things can be 'true' at the same time in the same place & still be pure 100% bullshit.

 

[phenomanon]

I think the main problem is that Hubbard didn't know what he was talking about.

Five years after Dianetics came out he published Dianetics 55 in which he says the state of Clear as discussed in Dianetics is now known as the state of Thetan Exterior in Scientology.

Then in 1964 he came out with the Book Of Case Remedies in which he says the state of Clear is simply "a gradient up to Homo Novis" but beyond that is the state of OT. He just kept changing it because he was full of BS.

People who knew him have said he always wanted to experience being exterior but he never achieved it. So how come he used to talk about it as though he was an expert? Because he was a blowhard.

blowhard: A very boastful and talkative person.

Who were the people who knew him say that "LRH always wanted to experience being exterior but he never achieved it"? ( I don't believe it , because he never would have admitted it even IF it were true.)

 

[cleared cannibal]

I asked an OT once why he still wore glasses. He told me that it was only MEST concerns and that he was far beyond caring if he did or didn't need glasses. He looked at things from the exterior viewpoint now and didn't really need his eyes. Quote" If I wanted to I could throw away my glasses tomorrow but I have other things I want to put my attention on."

How do you respond to that other than by laughing?

 

[hummingbird]

I asked an OT once why he still wore glasses. He told me that it was only MEST concerns and that he was far beyond caring if he did or didn't need glasses. He looked at things from the exterior viewpoint now and didn't really need his eyes. Quote" If I wanted to I could throw away my glasses tomorrow but I have other things I want to put my attention on."

Hey! I've heard that too! "It's just my MEST body that needs glasses. I don't!"

 

[ThetanExterior]

Who were the people who knew him say that "LRH always wanted to experience being exterior but he never achieved it"? ( I don't believe it , because he never would have admitted it even IF it were true.)

I can't remember now where that came from exactly but I've heard someone who was on the Apollo with him say it and also someone who was one of his close friends on land say the same thing.

There was also the story about Mary Sue wanting to go exterior so Hubbard put his best auditors on the case but they failed. They say neither Hubbard nor his wife ever went exterior.

My info comes from watching numerous interviews with people who knew him closely, including girlfriends, and reading the vast number of personal accounts from people who worked with him. ESMB member Cowboy said Hubbard couldn't go exterior. That's just one reference I remember offhand. The information is all out there but if you don't believe it then that's fine by me.

 

[Irayam]

Standard tech !

scientology is the only game in the universe where opposite things can be 'true' at the same time in the same place & still be pure 100% bullshit.

The sun never sets on the contradictions of $cientology!!

Irayam

 

[Elronius of Marcabia]

I asked an OT once why he still wore glasses. He told me that it was only MEST concerns and that he was far beyond caring if he did or didn't need glasses. He looked at things from the exterior viewpoint now and didn't really need his eyes. Quote" If I wanted to I could throw away my glasses tomorrow but I have other things I want to put my attention on."

How do you respond to that other than by laughing?

Sounds like a Monty Python bit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmInkxbvlCs

 

[Irayam]

This thread remind me also the first OT that I met, at the beginning of my journey into $cientology.

She was supposed to be OT VII (the old one...) and she was scratching her leg (what! No total control on the body!?!) and she was searching for a paper she lost (what no perfect recall!?!)

She also tried to sell me a large amount of auditing hours but she refused to move her coffee cup without her hands so I can have a proof of the value of the auditing...
(So I just agree to buy an intensive, to see...)

(And, yes I was disappointed...)

(But, I continued on the bridge for several years... What a fool!!)

Irayam

 

[Dulloldfart]

Who were the people who knew him say that "LRH always wanted to experience being exterior but he never achieved it"? ( I don't believe it , because he never would have admitted it even IF it were true.)

There's this.

Excerpted from a 1986 David Mayo talk, http://www.skeptictank.org/otpowers.htm

I audited L. Ron Hubbard probably for the longest period of time that anybody has [sic] ever audited him. He had a goal to go exterior. After one session he thought that he might have gone exterior and he told me and described what he saw outside the room; which was a moonlit night with the trees and stars and so on. He wanted to go outside, wanted me to come with him go outside and see if that's what he saw, if it was there. We went outside--it was pitch black and [we] couldn't see anything. So, the result was we're still going to work on him going exterior. I'm not telling you this to say that nobody else has gone exterior because I know people have. But if you haven't gone exterior or if you haven't gone exterior with full perception I want you to know that you're not the only one.​

Paul

 

[arcxcauseblows]

If you want better vision just get laser surgery it's cheaper than Scientology and the results are more permanent

Works so well they don't have to avoid little things like clinical trials

Once again wogs tech beats Scientology

 

[Gizmo]

I remember a guy who smoked heavily and said - with all the authority of an ot7 - " I do not agree with the postulate that smoking causes cancer " ! while sitting in the HGC at the Sand Castle doing his preps for 8.

3 guesses what he died of . . . . . . . and the first 2 don't count.

So many people so far " up " on the bridge dying of every imaginable illness - just like wogs.

Can that even be possible ?

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

..

If you want better vision just get laser surgery--it's cheaper than Scientology and the results are more permanent. Works so well they don't have to avoid little things like clinical trials. Once again wogs tech beats Scientology

I thought Scientologists might appreciate your excellent r-factor, so.....

I relayed that technical information to a friend of mine who is still an active member of the Church of Scientology. Surprisingly, he was quite interested and asked me to forward his post. . .

Originally Posted by Billy Blowdown

As an OT VIII, I have had spiritual gains beyond my wildest dreams! By way of example, one of my recent major wins is the fact that Scientology is expanding at unprecedented orders of magnitude. You'd really have to see the mind blowing cartoon graphics of golden rockets hurtling through outer space (at our IAS events!) to fully appreciate it.

In any case I am still working on blowing my poor eyesight and had a big win during an LRH tape play this morning when I cognited that (like Ron said!) the physical universe is operating on a com lag, so OTs should not be upset that their postulates don't instantly manifest in the MEST universe. Ron's wisdom gave me the total certainty that I have already handled my vision and that very soon I won't need my glasses. This sent my tone level soaring so high that people were staring at me when I was sitting by myself on the bus continually line charging!

I am, however, very curious about this new "laser surgery" technology that you spoke of. I have never heard of that. I think you will find that it's just some kind of PR gimmick to sell you more eyeglasses. In any case, it makes no sense whatsoever, because:

1) If you simply clear the word "laser", it would be painfully obvious that you never want to let a laser beam hit your eyes. Jeez, everyone knows that! Even laser pointers come with WARNINGS!!!

​

So, clearly your alleged "laser tech" is totally false data! Do a clay demo until you get it.


2) The other obvious reason your laser tech concept is totally squirrelly is this--HOW THE HELL IS A LASER EVER GOING TO POSSIBLY CHANGE A BEING'S BAD EYESIGHT POSTULATES?!!! Ridiculous!!! LOL LOL LOL

ML,

Billy Blowdown
OT VIII
HHTIAYPS Graduate (Hubbard How To Instantly Achieve Your Postulates Specialist)

 

[phenomanon]

I can't remember now where that came from exactly but I've heard someone who was on the Apollo with him say it and also someone who was one of his close friends on land say the same thing.

There was also the story about Mary Sue wanting to go exterior so Hubbard put his best auditors on the case but they failed. They say neither Hubbard nor his wife ever went exterior.

My info comes from watching numerous interviews with people who knew him closely, including girlfriends, and reading the vast number of personal accounts from people who worked with him. ESMB member Cowboy said Hubbard couldn't go exterior. That's just one reference I remember offhand. The information is all out there but if you don't believe it then that's fine by me.

I don't doubt whether he was thetan exterior or not, but I don't believe that he would admit it to anyone. Anyone at all, if he weren't.
I don't doubt those people told you that. I just don't believe LRH voiced it. Neither Mary Sue.