Bill Frank's story about blackmail

Atalantan

Patron with Honors
Scientologists have been known to use scientology. Hopefully, they recognise that such things as folders containing "crime write-ups" are a part of the operation they could easily dispense with but I wouldn't count on it.
Somewhere there's probably a folder with your name on it.

Folders should have meter reads in them and little else. Certainly not the specific content of any overts etc.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
If you're speaking of what should be in a folder; certain things such as reading items, terminals, conditions, lists of various etc. kinds would belie this idea.

If you're talking about the reality of scientology's record-keeping; I guess you're unfamiliar with the various types of folders kept by the CofS (Ethics Files, PC Folders, Admin Folders, Student Files, Central Files, OSA Files etc).
 

Outethicsofficer

Silver Meritorious Patron
If you're speaking of what should be in a folder; certain things such as reading items, terminals, conditions, lists of various kinds would belie this idea.

If you're talking about the reality of scientology's record-keeping; I guess you're unfamiliar with the various types of folders kept by the CofS (Ethics Files, PC Folders, Admin Folders, Student Files, Central Files, OSA Files etc).

To say nothing of the 'X Files':coolwink:
 

Happy Days

Silver Meritorious Patron
When your own daughter, who is trying to handle you, says to you ...'get your folders sent to Flag and we will get them culled, I mean ahhhh reviewed'.

That just confirmed that culling is not something done that's out of the ordinary, it is regularly done and spoken about with gusto and enthusiasm, by CMO, OSA and police like people.

And really as if that hadn't already been done locally but maybe not thoroughly enough to the Mecca standard :D
 

Veda

Sponsor
Yet in that same era, in 1972 a Detroit staff member unequivocably told me it was a High Crime to hold a person anywhere against his will.

You mean you've beeen around that long? I thought you were just a naive kid. Mmmmm.

Viva la Liberte.

Well, in 1972, Scientology was all about liberty. Those were the good old days when Ron was in charge. :yes:

I still believe this, and as for the rationalization that "people who wanted to leave were becoming the effect of their reactive minds and that it was compassionate to restrain them from leaving ("blowing")", it was a rationalization by the not-quite-bright then, and is still a rationalization now, and the situation is fully covered by the basic principle stated by LRH - "Whatever the pc is doing obsessively or compulsively, have him do it on a self-determined basis."

Even a halfwit ought to be able to see this means if someone wants to "blow", quickly and cheerfully show him the door .

"Humanity is a dim bulb."

Riiiiight.

Darn those not quite bright types, and darn those dim bulb humanoids. They're always getting in the way of Ron's plans for Mankind, Life, the Universe, and Everything.

P.S. The "Scientology is not for you?" angle was used too (mostly on resistive new public though), but it didn't always work.
 

Atalantan

Patron with Honors
You mean you've beeen around that long? I thought you were just a naive kid. Mmmmm.



Well, in 1972, Scientology was all about liberty. Those were the good old days when Ron was in charge. :yes:



Riiiiight.

Darn those not quite bright types, and darn those dim bulb humanoids. They're always getting in the way of Ron's plans for Mankind, Life, the Universe, and Everything.

P.S. The "Scientology is not for you?" angle was used too (mostly on resistive new public though), but it didn't always work.

Yep, I recently turned 66. From what I've heard, even back in the 1970s, the orgs were a real mixed bag. Apparently most of the people I met, like Ruth Minshull and some of her cronies like Bob Musack and the Klopps, and Fred Fairchild, are long gone, many of them declared by the "church". I was never associated much with any church, just met some Field auditors and that type.

I've wondered recently, if every church has to go through an "inquisition" period before it settles down to being a decent civil organization?

I have a big pessimistic streak that emerges from time to time, when I feel for awhile humanity is literally too dumb to survive. It starts with me considering my own family, myself, my friends, and the hoi polloi at large. But individually I can find something to like about most any of them, and wish them well.

It's not that they get in the way of Ron's plans; they are their own worst enemies. Ron already "smashed his name into history", we don't have to worry about his plans anymore. We need to worry about ourselves and our friends and families.
 

Atalantan

Patron with Honors
If you're speaking of what should be in a folder; certain things such as reading items, terminals, conditions, lists of various etc. kinds would belie this idea.

If you're talking about the reality of scientology's record-keeping; I guess you're unfamiliar with the various types of folders kept by the CofS (Ethics Files, PC Folders, Admin Folders, Student Files, Central Files, OSA Files etc).

I've been reading about the kind of files kept by the CoS, and I'm really glad I stayed away. A long time ago I did a course called Ethics and Integrity. I like the theory part of it, I thought some of the ideas were quite good, like the part about it's true if it's true for you etc. I seem to recall doing a small "O/W write-up" as part of it, and I think I put down two or 3 kinds of overts I had done in my life; one of the staff, who was actually a nice and very sincere lady, spoke to me about not doing those kind any more, and I joked that I was relieved that I could still "cheat,lie, and steal!"(because I hadn't confessed to any of those!)

She was extremely dismayed, her face just fell!

Well, it was a lot like being asked by someone you know well, "Have you accepted Christ as your personal Savior?" You know damn well they will be very disappointed if you say"NO", so what do you do?

Anyway,this totally alerted me to the fact that I could no way belong to such a group. The only way I would ever write up my own transgressions would be if it were absolutely guaranteed and I could see it done, that someone read them and then the documment was destroyed without any copy being made. This would mean I hand-carried them to the reader, then they were given back to me, and I would do whatever Iwanted with them.

They sure as Hell wouldn't go in any file for some random (bleep) to read.

Ditto for sessions. There should be no session records kept beyond what was absolutely necessary for the next honest action to be C/sed. I'm not techy enough to know what that would be; sure what process was run, what list, reads and tone arm action, OK. But no detailed content should be allowed to be noted. Catholic priests don't write shit down, as far as I know.

I believe I heard that some Ron's Orgs destroy a person's folders when they go Clear; that seems right.

So that was one of several small incidents upon which I decided membership in that group was not for me. I'm not the confessin' type, especially if someone wants to keep a record of it!
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Right, I get what you're saying but that's not how scientology tech actually utilises folder content. Despite the current obsession with Overts and Enforced Confession, O/W tech is just a small part of the overall practice. Hard to believe, I know!
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Right, I get what you're saying but that's not how scientology tech actually utilises folder content. Despite the current obsession with Overts and Enforced Confession, O/W tech is just a small part of the overall practice. Hard to believe, I know!

Blackmail is *exactly* how Scientology Tech utilises the PC Folder data. Have you seen the OSA training material?
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
What I'm about to say will sound otherworldly to many here, but I'll say it anyway, just to show how much the Scientology experience varied for different people.

To my recollection, as a Class IV auditor and while getting audited through OT IV, I neither received a sec check nor gave anybody a sec check. No one ever said to me, and I never said to anyone else while I or they were holding the cans, "I am not auditing you."

Perhaps my memory is faulty and I had a sec check. If so, it wasn't expensive or traumatic. Frankly, I don't think I ever had one.

I remember ruds, including O/Ws, as something that got checked quickly before getting to the meat of a session. No big deal.

I have no way of knowing whether my pc folders were culled for incriminating information of any kind that might have been put into a different kind of folder. Certainly, no one ever suggested to me I was a slimeball or unworthy or a criminal.

And for the record, I never gave a dime to the IAS.

Speaking purely rhetorically, WTF happened to Scientology?

Please, no answer is required. It really was a rhetorical question.

TG1
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Blackmail is *exactly* how Scientology Tech utilises the PC Folder data. Have you seen the OSA training material?
There is good evidence that this occurs but that is not the *primary* use of folder data. The most common use of folder data in scientology is in the programming and supervision of "cases".

Blackmail and the use of folder data to introvert and control people occurs and is, of course, one use of this data but it is, at least from a Technical view, neither the primary purpose nor use of folder data.

Yes, I've read the OSA training materials. OSA does what it does with what it finds in folders.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Addendum: A friend has taken me to task for the above "benign interpretation" of the use of PC Folder data and so I include the following clarification from what I wrote in reply;

"Well, if you're a good Auditor you don't write stenographically. You note terminals, conditions, items etc and their attendant meter reads. You sometimes need to add detail to clarify what these notes mean but it is only in sec-checking where you're likely to find "blackmailable" material. The betrayal of trust as regards PC folders is unconscionable and I have no truck with it. My point in that post is that it's not as simplistic as Infinite seems to believe. As far as my experience in scientology goes my statement about the primary purpose and use of this data stands. There have undoubtedly been exceptions.
Panda"


Anyone who has worked in the Technical Division of a scientology organisation knows where the bulk of hours of effort are directed. Primarily this work is about "handling cases" and getting a person "up the Bridge". In more recent times there has been a heavy concentration on Sec-Checking as a result of unprecedented attacks on scientology. The fact that this activity seems to amplify the volume of and worsen the attacks doesn't appear to have sunk in at Upper Management levels.

I'm not saying that coercion and blackmail don't occur, I'm just saying that this is not the whole rationale behind scientology's obsession with record-keeping.
 
Addendum: A friend has taken me to task for the above "benign interpretation" of the use of PC Folder data and so I include the following clarification from what I wrote in reply; ...

Sounds like your friend has a problem with you speaking the truth. Can't please everyone.

Your follow up post is good but I considered the prior one to be perfectly clear as written.


Mark A. Baker
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Well, you know how it is; you can't please all of the people all of the time but, then again, who'd want to?
I believe in honest reporting regardless of where that might lead.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Anyone who has worked in the Technical Division of a scientology organisation knows where the bulk of hours of effort are directed. Primarily this work is about "handling cases" and getting a person "up the Bridge". In more recent times there has been a heavy concentration on Sec-Checking as a result of unprecedented attacks on scientology. The fact that this activity seems to amplify the volume of and worsen the attacks doesn't appear to have sunk in at Upper Management levels.

This is true. I interned on NED and audited some. I later became E/O held from above. 1978=82

The GO had their interests in whatever, but mostly from what was in their files. They blocked some people. They had little or no effect re ongoing PC
efforts. But if you were in their files they got interested and tended to fuck up. " Deliver what you promise" was not a policy they followed.
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Anyone who has worked in the Technical Division of a scientology organisation knows where the bulk of hours of effort are directed. Primarily this work is about "handling cases" and getting a person "up the Bridge". In more recent times there has been a heavy concentration on Sec-Checking as a result of unprecedented attacks on scientology. The fact that this activity seems to amplify the volume of and worsen the attacks doesn't appear to have sunk in at Upper Management levels.

Meanwhile - anyone who has worked in Division 20 of Scientology knows where the bulk of the hours of effort are directed. Primarily this work is about "handling cases" and keeping a person under control. This has been a function of Scientology since the 1960s for which much tech was written and personally overseen by L Ron Hubbard. The fact that the effect of this activity doesn't appear to have sunk in is quite understandable: its scripture and, as such, cannot be wrong. Anyone who doubts that obviously has overts.
 
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