Gold Meritorious Patron
Fair enough. But your "explanation" was neither even vaguely accurate (in terms of what Hubbard said) or clearly some piece of Hoax humour where accuracy would be irrelevant. I could imagine many people accepting what you said at face value.
I don't like it when a poster who is respected misrepresents facts which could well be taken as accurate by many. Which is why I get nitpicky sometimes, even when the errors aren't intentional, as they usually aren't (I assume). If some trash-talking idiot misrepresents facts I often ignore it as I don't feel like correcting every single error I see on ESMB. But *you*, Hoaxie, I hold to a higher standard.
And I hope rightfully so.
If perchance, you really believe that the true basis of O/Ws is transgression against an ideal state, that is a different subject. For myself, I find Hubbard's stated basis more accurate in terms of how to take charge off O/Ws.
. . . <snip> . . . 9. Various forms of coercive persuasion are used in all areas of Scientology. A working term in Scientology is registration ("reg") cycle. During a reg cycle, parishioners are coercively persuaded to do something which a senior Scientologist believes will be good for Scientology. In my 21 years of membership in Scientology, I personally observed how auditors and others identify a person's "hot button." I saw how auditors used many individual's hot buttons in the various types of interviews (ethics, chaplin, registration, counseling, etc.) to coerce the parishioner into donating money, doing the next service, joining the Sea Org, going to the RPF and agreeing to forego spending time with their children and families in order to devote greater time and effort to the good of Scientology . . . <snip> . . .
I couldn't stop reading that HH, beautifully put ... what grew is what was planted.
I like this 3rd way of viewing things!
It is amazing, when you look at it, that they cannot actually apply their own tech to themselves . . . not that it's infallible "tech" mind you, but if they believe it and they assert it's perfect truth, you'd think they and Hubbard before them would apply it to themselves!
But no, history is demonstrating Hubbard was not that honest.
Even any sane "wog" operation looks to see where they are screwing up if they are being "attacked" by their customers or community . . . give or take a bit of deceitful legal advice from their attorneys .
There's a rich history of allegations of blackmail by Scientology used against us poor wogs. From the FBI Files:
. . . I'm beginning to wonder if expecting the FBI to actually do anything about the cult is just a pipe dream.
Thanks Panda & Trouble!
Whatever Scientologists or Indie Scientologists say about their tomato tech (O/Ws), it doesn't change the fact that....
PINK FLOWERS = PINK LEGS STICKING OUT
No OT phenomena except Oleander Tech.
This would seem to give clever hoaxters some divine right to fool those less clever?<snip> An individual is ALWAYS responsible for what he himself understands no matter what effort is applied by others to influence him in his understanding. It's the only way a person ever actually learns anything for himself. Otherwise what exists is simply another 'dittohead'.
That is possibly true Atlantan in some groups, but scientology is a group that prides itself on it's study tek and the full understanding of materials ... there is no (upfront) approval of dittoheads though it is of course tacitly approved and indeed necessary for full indoctrination to occur.
I haven't observed that happening to any great degree at ESMB, I have observed people by honest communication gradually dumping the cultic indoctrination of scientology though.
Scientology tech is Scientology tech. Sure, there's Admin Tech, Study Tech, PTS/SP Tech, and OSA Tech - but *all* of it is Scientology tech. The fact that parts of it run contrary to each other does not remove it from the Scientology basket. There may be individual specific intents for each part of the tech but, overall, the encompassing intent is the aggrandisement of L Ron Hubbard and the personal enrichment of his successors. Each piece of the tech aids and abets that overall intention.
Extracting bits and pieces here and there is not, by its own definition, Scientology.
Nope. It is hugely relevant how L Ron Hubbard built the house. He built it with many different types of tech. The "house" that L Ron Hubbard built is *exactly* the same one David Miscavige manages today. Yes, probably, the house can be razed but given that the foundation was a lie about healing war injuries jumbled up with a plethora of half-understood plagiarisms, the results would be just the same.
I'm sure that's what Scientologists would like us to believe but it is, clearly, a nonsense. Sure, the entire first floor may be given over to auditing tech, but upstairs there's offices for executive, treasury, dissemination, qualification, and, of course, blackmail.
The shape of the bottle might not matter but the fact that it is labelled "wine" yet carries "poison" is relevant.
PS: In future, if you're going to quote me, I would be grateful if you'd indicate where you have "snipped" or just quote the entire passage to which you are responding. kthnxbai.
I quite agree that there are few dittoheads on ESMB, and that the CoS has a very high percentage. The CoS has actually been selecting for dittoheads for over 30 years and have driven freethinkers out almost completely out at this point in time.
I saw it starting to happen in the 1970s. They apply a lot of pressure to be a dittohead.
I think the approval is totally up front and has been for some years, in that it is not even allowed to blink at "Command Intention".
Understanding of the materials was abandoned long ago except in the outlying orgs; the closer you get to Flag, the less understanding there is. And the less ethical people are, in every sense of the word. They pay lip service to those things, but their belief that they actually understand those things is a delusion.