Bill Frank's story about brainwashing (thread merge)

brainwashing

:rose:::welcome::welcome2:

Thank you for your story.

As you have been so kind to help relieve folks of their suffering, would you mind staying awhile and answering questions that you feel comfortable with? It is a privilege to have you here as you have such a wealth of information. You are, in fact, one of the missing links in Scientology history.

I will reply to anything that might be of help. best, Bill
 

FoTi

Crusader
....and why does anyone think that the WHY for blowing is an either/or proposition?

Blows are caused by O/Ws

Blows are caused by ARC Xs

The correct answer is BOTH.

Blows ARE caused by O/Ws.

Ron's O/W's.

People ARC-X on that.

Yep....that's right. :yes:
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
I will reply to anything that might be of help. best, Bill

Well, I think this will help readers here. Do you consider yourself an independent scientologist?

By the way, thank you for all your efforts in those court cases against the church. That took courage.
 
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Ulf K. Maier

Patron Meritorious
I know, I'm just piling on... :)

I have been out of Scn for 30 years and I don't really know much of how they are currently running things. I get the idea you do and I would be interested in hearing what you have to say. Best, Bill Franks

Two questions, please:

1. In your time as ED INT, would you say that, speaking generally (not in generalities), Senior Exec Strata execs were "true believers"? Or was it really more about "make money, make more money, get others to make more money" and rather cynical?

2. Some say that Miscavige has been running the C of S as Hubbard intended. Do you agree with this characterisation of his tenure as manager?
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
Hi Bill,

Most of what I want to discuss with you is not appropriate for a forum. Would you mind if I friend you on FB and write you privately to ask?

My name is Sheila Huber. I was in the SO from 1977-1986 at PAC and I remember you as ED INT.
 
I have been out of Scn for 30 years and I don't really know much of how they are currently running things. I get the idea you do and I would be interested in hearing what you have to say. Best, Bill Franks

I was not involved for as long as many here, nor in the SO. I never went to an AO.
I was a registrar in a smallish org.

I don't think DM would do anything with the overts vs ARC x thing even if he knew about it. Too much of an 'earthquake' to deal with and too much to risk. I assume he does not know about it anyway and now there may be no proof of it other than the testimony of arch "SP"s. DM may to too evil to care anyway....However when the public start fleeing in droves and all the cash cows are taking their cash away, the COS comes up with programs to deal with that. They have to find out what is upsetting people and make people feel that their upsets are genuinely being dealt with....to get them back in. That is what the COS has done in the past.
Whether of not they have found the true reasons for past upsets, or just bits of the truth, I don't know. It has to work on people to get them back in.
 

Karen#1

Gold Meritorious Patron
Drachonian Abuse

I will reply to anything that might be of help. best, Bill

Dear Bill,

Resounding and reverberating within the Sea Org ~~ perhaps unknown to you ~~ was what occurred with you at that Mission Holder's debacle.

It was known that you were popular and respected by the Mission Holders, especially those slaughtered by DM.

BUT What was done to YOU. That is a piece of history that needs to be told on the web.

Kidnap, held against will are HALLMARKS of the "Church."

It got worse and worse after you left, a lot worse.
You have always been a straight shooter, willing to tell it like it is ~~

Please tell the story of what occurred when you led away out of the Mission Holder Conference.

Also, something stuck in my craw for years and years.
I am almost embarrassed to ask.

It is true that DM had you HOG-TIED to a chair for several hours ?


?????????????

It is sometimes hard to sort out TRUTH from REALITY and some of these incidents are hard to accept.
 
brainwashing

Well, I think this will help readers here. Do you consider yourself an independent scientologist?

By the way, thank you for all your efforts in those court cases against the church. That took courage.

thanks. I am not an independant Scno. I am a wog. So is my wife and kids and we hope to stay that way. But, since 1974, it became clear what Hubbard and his little minnie me have had in mind. I felt obligated to expose this to those who might be able to use it as I believe there are good things to salvage. If I can help to do that, then I am available for it.
Best to you, Bill Franks
 
I was not involved for as long as many here, nor in the SO. I never went to an AO.
I was a registrar in a smallish org.

I don't think DM would do anything with the overts vs ARC x thing even if he knew about it. Too much of an 'earthquake' to deal with and too much to risk. I assume he does not know about it anyway and now there may be no proof of it other than the testimony of arch "SP"s. DM may to too evil to care anyway....However when the public start fleeing in droves and all the cash cows are taking their cash away, the COS comes up with programs to deal with that. They have to find out what is upsetting people and make people feel that their upsets are genuinely being dealt with....to get them back in. That is what the COS has done in the past.
Whether of not they have found the true reasons for past upsets, or just bits of the truth, I don't know. It has to work on people to get them back in.

ps. I got out mid-80's.
This board is pretty good for keeping up with things currently in COS>
 

Sindy

Crusader
Dear Bill,

Resounding and reverberating within the Sea Org ~~ perhaps unknown to you ~~ was what occurred with you at that Mission Holder's debacle.

It was known that you were popular and respected by the Mission Holders, especially those slaughtered by DM.

BUT What was done to YOU. That is a piece of history that needs to be told on the web.

Kidnap, held against will are HALLMARKS of the "Church."

It got worse and worse after you left, a lot worse.
You have always been a straight shooter, willing to tell it like it is ~~

Please tell the story of what occurred when you led away out of the Mission Holder Conference.

Also, something stuck in my craw for years and years.
I am almost embarrassed to ask.

It is true that DM had you HOG-TIED to a chair for several hours ?


?????????????

It is sometimes hard to sort out TRUTH from REALITY and some of these incidents are hard to accept.

Yes, please ^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS^^^^^^^^^^
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
thanks. I am not an independant Scno. I am a wog. So is my wife and kids and we hope to stay that way. But, since 1974, it became clear what Hubbard and his little minnie me have had in mind. I felt obligated to expose this to those who might be able to use it as I believe there are good things to salvage. If I can help to do that, then I am available for it.
Best to you, Bill Franks

Wow! Thanks for answering this!

((HUGGS)) to you and your family, members of the 'wog brigade' like so many of us here!!

Mary
 

FoTi

Crusader
Yes, I wrote it and all I can add is that Hubbard often wrote his C/S's on foolscap paper and I am sure the paper was disappeared but this is an accurate telling of what Hubbard thought of his o/w tech. best, Bill franks

Welcome Bill. Glad you decided to join us. I look forward to hearing your stories.:drama:
 
Dear Bill,

Resounding and reverberating within the Sea Org ~~ perhaps unknown to you ~~ was what occurred with you at that Mission Holder's debacle.

It was known that you were popular and respected by the Mission Holders, especially those slaughtered by DM.

BUT What was done to YOU. That is a piece of history that needs to be told on the web.

Kidnap, held against will are HALLMARKS of the "Church."

It got worse and worse after you left, a lot worse.
You have always been a straight shooter, willing to tell it like it is ~~

Please tell the story of what occurred when you led away out of the Mission Holder Conference.

Also, something stuck in my craw for years and years.
I am almost embarrassed to ask.

It is true that DM had you HOG-TIED to a chair for several hours ?


?????????????

It is sometimes hard to sort out TRUTH from REALITY and some of these incidents are hard to accept.

Dear Karen,
No, I never was tied up just stashed away up in hemet. However, I was offered this mysterios ski trip in the French Pyrenees which I think I wisely turned down. But I am sure there are many people who have better war stories than me. I just would like this knowing abuse of the tech to be revealed so that more clever people than I might be able to salvage the tech as well as themselves. best Bill
 

Sindy

Crusader
Dear Karen,
No, I never was tied up just stashed away up in hemet. However, I was offered this mysterios ski trip in the French Pyrenees which I think I wisely turned down. But I am sure there are many people who have better war stories than me. I just would like this knowing abuse of the tech to be revealed so that more clever people than I might be able to salvage the tech as well as themselves. best Bill

Bill, do you think Hubbard ever set out on an altruistic path simply to help people or was it always about himself and his agrandizement?
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Dear Karen,
No, I never was tied up just stashed away up in hemet. However, I was offered this mysterios ski trip in the French Pyrenees which I think I wisely turned down. But I am sure there are many people who have better war stories than me. I just would like this knowing abuse of the tech to be revealed so that more clever people than I might be able to salvage the tech as well as themselves. best Bill

Which parts of the tech do you feel are worth salvaging?

Welcome to ESMB.

:yes:
 

Ulf K. Maier

Patron Meritorious
Farewell to this thread.

Bill, do you think Hubbard ever set out on an altruistic path simply to help people or was it always about himself and his agrandizement?

Hi Synthia

I think your and Mr Franks' last post crossed each other on the way in... I believe he answers you here:

"I just would like this knowing abuse of the tech to be revealed so that more clever people than I might be able to salvage the tech as well as themselves. best Bill "

Since I don't believe there is any "tech" to salvage, and my experiences have led me to believe that what Hubbard ran was a sophisticated scam, I am out of this thread.

In other words, Hubbard's or any other *brand* of Scientology based on his flavour are out and out BULLSHIT. The parts that may have worked for some people were plagiarised from working technologies by Hubbard and minions. I defy anyone to prove otherwise.
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thank you. I had asked Gregg Wells as an old friend of mine if he could post this information. Basically due to my incompetence with the computer it was required. Obviously I have now figured out how to get on the board and I would be interested in what you have to say. best, Bill

Bill,

Welcome!:yes:

So, so good to have you here. This is an incredible and amazing surprise.:yes:

Although I wish to keep, for now, my anonymity on an open Board, I will say this here and now…our paths first crossed in the late ‘60’s and off and on some over the next twelve years or so.:coolwink:

When you were made ED Int I thought it was an excellent and potentially “transformational” move and, knowing that you were one of the “Real” people, had great hopes for where things might go from there. At that time I was Flag Crew and knew many of the Mission Holders, David Mayo and field luminaries. :)

Your removal and Declare, the Mission Holder Kristallnacht and Declares and Mayo’s removal and Declare were the catalyst for my walking away. I knew that there was absolutely no way in Hell that you or David or the Mission Holders I knew were SP’s and I knew then that the CMO Children of the Corn had wrested all control and that it was time for me to go; that Scns guts had been torn out and it would never be the same again. :no:

I am glad that you are here, I hope that you are well and that your life is good. I hope that, over time and as you wish and are comfortable here, you will share with all of Us your “Take” and your story. I, for one, am all ears.:thumbsup:

My Very Best Wishes to You Always in All Ways.:)

Face:)
 
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