Bill Frank's story about brainwashing (thread merge)

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
Re: Bill Franks posting 2011

One important theme in Bill's posting, is his admitted regret he couldn't help change the atmosphere in the movement, during his tenure, and that is an important point.

Scientology will eventually have to evolve to the point where the leaders who ARE on duty at the movement's top ranks, they DO soften and lighten up the totalitarianism in the movement.

It's inevitable, as time goes on, that whoever becomes the next round of leaders of Scientology, they'll have to continue to deal with the Hubbard instilled downsides.

This is a very important posting.

I hope Bill gets interviewed, I'd like to interview him and survey him on what he thinks would best help change the totalitarian "brainwashing" atmosphere which has gotten worse, per all accounts of the top people leaving the top ranks the last decade or two, witness the St. Pete Times interviews and articles, and now the New Yorker magazine article regarding Paul Haggis, since that New Yorker article nicely summarizes the last decade of controversies surrounding Scientology.

It'd be nice to get more recollections out of Bill, and out of the memories of others who lived through the tumultuous late 1970s up through Hubbard's death, where the final setup of Scientology top leadership evolved, and the various top players jockeyed to do their roles. Roles which Hubbard wrote for them to assume. (The transition from the old "Commodore's Staff Aides" and "Flag Bureaux" and "LRH Personal Office" setups, to the Int Headquarters setup with RTC, CMO Int, Exec Strata, and with Author Services Inc taking on some of the old "LRH Pers Office" duties, and additionally how CST evolved and grew based on Hubbard's long term ideas about "preserving" his tech for the LONG future, etc.) The history of Hubbard's final years, spelled out more in detail, with the limitations of the persons who assumed the roles LRH wrote for them, and the braindrain of the late 1970s through the mid part of the 1980s, is important to compare to the following decades of Scientology leadership. As rough and tumble as the late 1970s and up to the mid 1980s was, I'd argue that the leaders displayed more of the "good" aspects of Scientology policy, the then top people displayed more "good" in management tech I'd say, until they each left top management by the early 1980s, one by one.

Bill "mellowed" and bore his responsibilities as ED Int seriously and pretty judiciously, was my impression, when I remember his final time in the Sea Org.

Anyways, this is an important thread, and I hope somehow Bill's views can be made public on related points about his final years in the movement.

Bill ought to also be interviewed by Lawrence Wright, for Lawrence's upcoming book on Scientology.

I'm so glad Bill's had his thoughts posted.

It'd be nice to see him doing one of the exit surveys, like EtherCat's or WWP's big list of thse who've spoken out, too.
 

Semper Phi

Patron with Honors

Thanks so much for bumping this, GB. It was an important thread, I think. I know that it sure validated the disagreements I had when learning O/W tech, and then going through all my sec checking before I finally quit staff and chucked the whole scene.

I'm trying to avoid Scn-speak in my life now, but when I read the OP and understood what it meant, well --

LFBD F/N pretty much sums it up. :yes:
 

BardoThodol

Silver Meritorious Patron
Another very fine bit of data from LRH...

Except...

A person does not blow only due to ARC Xs. Does NOT.

Might be A reason. Not the only reason. Nor are Overts or withholds.

Person might like Group A fine, but likes Group B better, so he "blows" Group A for Group B. Same can happen in a marriage. Or on a job. No ARC x, problem or withhold involved.

All sorts of reasons to leave one situation for another.

So...even if LRH did originate something like this, it's not a fundamental truth.

Apologies if someone has already pointed this out. Time constraints.
 

RogerB

Crusader
Another very fine bit of data from LRH...

Except...

A person does not blow only due to ARC Xs. Does NOT.

Might be A reason. Not the only reason. Nor are Overts or withholds.

Person might like Group A fine, but likes Group B better, so he "blows" Group A for Group B. Same can happen in a marriage. Or on a job. No ARC x, problem or withhold involved.

All sorts of reasons to leave one situation for another.

So...even if LRH did originate something like this, it's not a fundamental truth.

Apologies if someone has already pointed this out. Time constraints.

Yes, 'tis correct.

Hubbard was maniacally fixated on negative behavior and negative, abbreactive responses to life.

It's almost as though he couldn't conceive of the idea that someone other than himself could actually make a rational self determined, analytical decision. He had to dub in that things were done for or based on negative causes.

One notices that his "correction lists" are a parade of negatives . . . there is an absence of positives.

R
 
Here is my story about brainwashing

As you know I have tried unsuccessfully to get this posted elsewhere. I have tried also to tell this story many times since it occurred to me that it might be helpful, but it does not seem to be of interest or there is a lot of apathy out there which is certainly understandable. I retell this here as it is about the tech and I think its useful in explaining a lot of what has happened over the years.

Firstly, I swear that this is the absolute and complete truth even though it occurred 37 years ago.

Secondly, a little about me which might put things into perspective as to why I saw what I am about to say as very significant and in a way horrific.I was in the SO for a little under 14 years. I attained the "rank' of Lt. Commander through promotions only by Hubbard. I was OEC and FEBC(trained by Hubbard) , HSDC, Class nine when I left in December 27 1981, as well as DSEC, Nots auditor, plus assorted other stuff. I was OT five plus nots, plus sec checked up the wazoo over the years. I also audited between 3-4000 hours conservatively speaking-probably much more, a lot of this was under Hub as the C/S. I spent about 3 1/2 years working with Hubbard pretty directly on the ship at various posts.I got to know him as well as anybody did.
My last position was Chairman of the Board and ED Int both by directive of LRH personally.

OK

Thirdly and to the point of all this preamble, on one night in 1974 I found myself in David mayo's office in the tween decks of the Apollo.
It was very late or early in the morning. We were ,I believe in the port of Safi, Morrocco. A student of mine, I was currently D of T and Mayo was Flag Snr C/S, had blown. Hubbard was extremely angry with us due to this blown student of mine on the FEBC program. In an attempt to show Hubbard what we had done to handle this guy we collected up all the sec checking that he had received over the last 2 months, it had been a lot poor guy, and presented it to him along with an outline of this student's progress on the courses he had taken. We had also wanted to show him how we had been careful that he hadn't gone by misunderstoods, etc.

We waited and waited and about 0300 hrs a messenger came down with a Despatch written by LRH. My memory does not recall any folders being returned. The despatch was entitled Very Confidential underlined. "He went onto say that if you or Franks ever reveal any of this information that I am about to reveal, the consequences will be severe for SCN."
He then wrote" a person does not blow due Overts or Witholds. He blows only due to ARC BKs".
"However, If any of this information ever became public,I would lose all control of the orgs and eventually Scientology as a whole".signed "LRH"
Both Mayo and me looked at one another completely incredulously. I cannot speak for Dave but I was completely flabbergasted as I realized at that point of digestion that he is talking about something that 75-80% of the tech is premised upon. Furthermore, the OEC/FEBC was currently anchored by the latest" development" at the time -being the L's, L-10,11, & 12.which for tose who don't know is about OW's. I don't believe Mayo or I talked about this again until we were out where I saw him at his auditing facility in Montecito, California in 1983. I believed we were a bit shell shocked about this.
As for me, I began to see more and more that scientology was merely a big prison camp. I stayed in for another 7 plus years but I was always mindful of this and always had in mind changing this "tech". I believe it is the key to what we have all seen and experienced as brainwashing.

That is all. I hope someone who want to use this will do so as there is no doubt that there is good in the tech it is just a matter of where is it.
How do you sort out the good and the bad and at the same time keep the good without throwing out the baby with the bath water.
I regret that I could not fix this during my tenure.

Best, wogman Bill Franks

It's up... it's out, and I have heard it from other people as well. Of course it makes so much more sense. One can dig for OW's until one goes insane.
Very glad you are out, and I doubt even this knowledge can salvage what it has become.
thanks,
nancy foster many
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
It seems its all about 'getting leverage upon rat-brains' ...


(a quote from the movie Battlefield Earth which just may have been crafted to remind members and ex-members that Hubbard had collected all their witholds, to slow down the exodus of members who might dare speak out, thus maintaining the empire of lies, just a bit longer, by inducement of silence.. by this extortionate conduct.

"Every action of scientology towards it's critics, is by design, extortionate conduct to intimidate witnesses into silence. (lerma, 1996)

"One day someone will claim what we are doing is illegal, when that
day comes let it be the Orgs that decide what is illegal" (c) L. Ron Hubbard" LINK

see #G LINK

PS: Bill if you are reading this, i was at USLO when you were CO, GREAT to hear from you!, THANK YOU!

arnie lerma
 

JustMe

Patron Meritorious
Thanks. The story isn't about me or anyone in particular. It is , I think, about how Scn has gotten ahold of people and in many cases kept them. As for me, I have taken some time to shake this off but I have never regretted a day being out and i regret my involvement in getting so many people in. It takes some thought to see the insidiousness of this kind of introversion that is caused by continual pounding, in a hypnotic environment, and how much of a hold it does get of one. Hopefully some will see the statement I made and begin to more successfully disentangle themselves.
As far as salvaging the tech personally I don't believe one could but maybe someone sees it differently. I don't. best, Bill Franks wogman

Dear Bill

I believe what you have said about Hubbard and how he was using the "tech" to control others. That is consistant with many of my experiences with this man that showed his greed, his need to control, his lies, his abusive nature, his betrayal of those who were dedicating their lives to support him and, yes his true nature as he cowardly hid behind others to avoid responsibility for so many things of which he was totally responsible.

It breaks my heart to know how many good people were hurt and decieved by all this.

Thank you very much for finding your voice and speaking out so that others can be helped as well. And consider me your friend in this quest.
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

The fact that blows follow ARCXs should be obvious to all.

-snip-

That's not always true. Sometimes people leave Scientology, not because they're upset (denoted in Scientology by the Hubbardism, "ARCX"), but because they CHOOSE TO LEAVE.

And the obsession with "O/W" was Hubbard's obsession, not just a "CofS" obsession. See Hubbard's Law of Commotion, if necessary.
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
That's not always true. Sometimes people leave Scientology, not because they're upset (denoted in Scientology by the Hubbardism, "ARCX"), but because they CHOOSE TO LEAVE.

Well of course.

I think Panda's point was that the "revelation" that people leave "because of ARC breaks" isn't really that big a deal because what Scientology says is what causes ARC Breaks is Missed Withholds.

All "ARC Break" handlings in Scientology come down to pulling withholds, sooner or later.

(I feel like I'm missing something that everyone else sees....)
 

Veda

Sponsor
Well of course.

I think Panda's point was that the "revelation" that people leave "because of ARC breaks" isn't really that big a deal because what Scientology says is what causes ARC Breaks is Missed Withholds.

All "ARC Break" handlings in Scientology come down to pulling withholds, sooner or later.

(I feel like I'm missing something that everyone else sees....)

In Scientology, resolving "ARCXs" has to do with finding and resolving (solving, dissolving, etc.) "by-passed charge." In theory, anyone "upset" with Scientology can have an "ARCX session" and then be delighted with Scientology. IF the "ARCX" session stalls, then, the theory goes, one must look deeper, to not what was done to the person, but what the person did.

The idea is that, if the "Tech" is applied to a person, he or she will be delighted with Hubbard and Scientology. The assumption is that "blows" are people who resist returning - don't want to be found out, etc.

"Technically," a person, in Scientology, who has (recently stirred up charge) "by-passed charge" and doesn't go to the "proper terminal" and originate it, and then have it "handled," has a "missed withhold" on his by-passed charge (which he is hiding but still nervous about), and the reason for his not wanting auditing (refusing auditing) is that he doesn't want to be found out about, etc., since there's something deeper than the "ARCX," something that he wants to keep hidden.

That Scientology critics have hidden crimes (overts) is from an HCOB, it's not just Ethics Tech, or Admin Tech, its Tech Tech.

See Hubbard's Law of Commotion if any clarification is needed.

Virtually everything in Scientology - even things which, under certain conditions, can have positive applications - has a manipulative ("mind control") application.

Hubbard lied to Scientologists about a lot of things. He lied about "Clear," he lied about why people leave Scientology. He played "bait and switch," and applied his Law of Commotion, with his enchanted followers for years.

It does take some time to sort out. :)
 

GreyLensman

Silver Meritorious Patron
:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

OMG...he'll say he found the long lost missing LRH despatch that explains why 80% of the tech that has been applied to all Scientologists has been wrong.

Scientologists will fly in from around the world. People will have to be carefully "softened up", like before OT3, so they don't just get up and furiously walk out. They'll have rows and rows of case cracker auditors lined up to fly people's ruds and prepare them for the HUGE arbitrary on their cases.

Why doesn't this sound far fetched?

Sounds like an event at the new Super Power building in Clearwater... And it doesn't sound far fetched because we've all heard this exact line over and over and over.
 

GreyLensman

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: brainwashing

Yes, I wrote it and all I can add is that Hubbard often wrote his C/S's on foolscap paper and I am sure the paper was disappeared but this is an accurate telling of what Hubbard thought of his o/w tech. best, Bill franks

Welcome to the board, Bill, and thank you. Explains alot about what worked and what wasn't really workable.
 

GreyLensman

Silver Meritorious Patron
Yes, this is correct.

In fact, the whole $cn scenario and "tech" on upsets/ARCX's and BPC is an incomplete and erroneous piece of "tech."

When one honestly and thoroughly reviews/studies what is done as the "handling" procedure addressing the upset/ARCX, one can see the procedure actually does not truly address and restore the prior set up of harmony and good condition that existed prior to the upset/ARCX . . . . it only addresses a) that you are upset/ARCX, b) what putatively "caused" it and c) assumes looking at what caused the upset handles the restoration of the prior happy state of Being . . . . it does NOT!

And so, the result is a grinding on and on with the individual wondering why their scenario "just isn't getting completely 'handled'"!

Rog

Why would it magically handle in some way? An upset involves people and communication and interactions never really addressed by auditing in a direct manner, except by accident in very early creative processing and enforced in later rundowns by remote actions that must happen to have the rundown complete.

ARCX was never handled itself - all that was done was to release the charge. In my experience that meant I could see the upset and remedy or not on my own, with a much better chance of remedying it because the charge was moved aside (the emotional overcharge) and the honest original feeling was still present and available in purity.

Meanwhile the unviewed and unseen charge that distracted and held attention units was gone - that was handled.
 

GreyLensman

Silver Meritorious Patron
And it is ludicrous to believe that Scientology either:

1) Knows the reason people blow.

2) Could do anything about it even if they did know the reason.​

EXAMPLE (true one): Before I left the Sea Org I got a review and it ended up with the Green Form.

'Continuously Committing Present Time Overts' is what read--and was taken up with the L & N "WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO PREVENT?"

My LFBD F/N item was: "Restimulation from Scientology".

Now what, technophiles?

Whadyagonnadonow?

------everything above this is true------

------everything below this is an Ideal Hoax-----


AUDITOR
I'd like to indicate that your item is
"Restimulation from Scientology"

HOAX
Wow, yeah! That's it alright.

AUDITOR
Well, I'll just turn this into the C/S and
get the next standard Scientology handling for that.

HOAX
Uhhhh, did you f*cking understand
what I just said?!



God that makes perfect sense.
 

GreyLensman

Silver Meritorious Patron
I'm not "believing" it because he said it...do you know who you are referring to exactly? That communication that he imparted from Hubbard is neither surprising nor revelatory. Correction, I can't say that what he said was not revelatory, of course it was, but the idea that ARCX are the cause of blows is obvious. Although, that is not an absolute either, like Scientology wants the tech to be. People leave for all sorts of reasons, O/Ws included. To say that others want to hear what he has to say because somehow it has some force or altitude would be missing the point.

True. I listened because it confirmed what I had experienced in myself and others. People don't leave because of the overt or withhold or missed withhold - and trying to find a missed withhold on someone leaving you in the real world just pisses them off (I almost wrote bypasses charge...)

Also seeing an example of the motives of LRH in how he manipulated how the tech was used - not the altruistic high goal of betterment, but the much baser element control - that is valuable.
 

Veda

Sponsor
The fundamental message is that if one wants to leave, or disagrees with Scientology, then that is not because there is something wrong with Hubbard and Scientology, but because there is something wrong with YOU.

From Hubbard's 1955 'Manual on Dissemination of Material':

"...Another frame of mind that we would like to see the public have and register is that people attacking Scientologists have something wrong with them..."

In 1955, Hubbard also secretly authored what was to become the blueprint for his Scientology operation http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?2697-Table-of-Contents-Psychopolitics-revisited :

Brainwashing-front.jpg


Some excepts (there are many more):

"We must have command of their values. The first loyalty [to himself] is destroyed by demonstrating errors in him...

"Degradation and conquest are companions... degradation can be accomplished by consistent and continual defamation [of the person to the person]. Defamation is the best and foremost weapon of Psycho-politics on the broad field...

"It will become well known that only the insane attack... [Scientology]

"An immediate attack on the sanity of the attacker is the best defense...."

Hubbard defined Psycho-politics as "The art and science of asserting and maintaining dominion over the thoughts and loyalties of individuals, officers, bureaus... through 'mental healing'."
 
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Terril park

Sponsor
Another very fine bit of data from LRH...

Except...

A person does not blow only due to ARC Xs. Does NOT.

"Might be A reason. Not the only reason. Nor are Overts or withholds.

Person might like Group A fine, but likes Group B better, so he "blows" Group A for Group B. Same can happen in a marriage. Or on a job. No ARC x, problem or withhold involved.

All sorts of reasons to leave one situation for another.

So...even if LRH did originate something like this, it's not a fundamental truth.

Apologies if someone has already pointed this out. Time constraints. "

Reply don't seem to work for me so a quote.

Excellent points here.

I would like to add that injustice is a very common factor in ARCX with CO$. My 2 cents if Ems allows it.:)
 

GreyLensman

Silver Meritorious Patron
Because he was selling the way out of the vulnerabilities and weaknesses of being human and people wanted it to be true. It's such a compelling thing that people will put up with a lot just for the chance that it might be true and as well there were plenty of people saying that it was true.

P.S. This sort of topic is exactly what this board is here for so if it doesn't make sense to you then feel free to leave.

And, as was pointed out elsewhere, you were not allowed to discuss your case "for your own progress and good." And if you actually had an opinion that ran counter there was ethics, and if that opinion persisted justice, all the while taking that possibility of that dream coming true.

In hindsight it is transparent.

Yes, I'm free to leave -- so are you. So was anyone who ever "joined" scientology, as the many who DID leave before they "lost everything" have proven.

Why would you think this topic doesn't make sense to me? I thought that asking the hard questions and looking at the uncomfortable truths about scientology, and our participation in it, was one of the main reasons forums such as this exists.

The question I've asked is a question no one has satisfactorily answered in all the time I've been reading (and posting on) this board, or any other. Plenty of people have said in one way or another, "the cult made me do it"; but almost no one has looked deeply enough at the question to uncover WHY they allowed the cult to make them do it.

It's not like the "brainwashing" that happens in a North Korean prison camp where a person is beaten every day and starved and held prisoner by chains and armed guards.

You have given (above) one of the most succinct and (apparently) hearfelt answers to the question of WHY that I've ever seen here.

Maybe your answer will help those who gave into the compulsion to better understand their own motivations, and thus guard against such "sales" in the future.

Maybe you'll get over your "kill the messenger" reaction of being upset at me because I asked the question. Or not.

You take some truth and some results at the start (the driveway repair where trucks show up and materials are unloaded as you leave for work, or the roof repair where the shingles and workman arrive and there is lots of noise, or the life repair where the whole idea was to blow you away at the possiblity). You want to believe it's true (they will repair that giant crack in the drive, they will fix that leak where we have to move a trash can when it rains... That next level will resolve your case).

And there is a delay when you realize and tell yourself it couldn't be true, that you paid that much for what turned out to be sunshine and air...
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Ah, the wonder of this so-called " ARCX handling ".

Back oh so many years ago as a baby auditor I came to see it sort of like this :

PC ARCX over purple wall.

Fly ruds. Pull it all down to E/S. Clean all those MWHs. Get it all to nice big FN/ VGIs.

The wall is still purple.

That is the easiest explanation of the scn "tech " I ever found.

It was my WTF ! moment.

....

I still continue to believe at least 85 % of the "workability" of any "system " be it Crristianity, LDS, Voodoo, meditation, prayer - or whatever - is the belief the person brings into it.

So, do we a complete miracle cancer cure from prayer every once in a great while ? Yes, and with enough ( although extremely rarely ) times to give credence to it.

Other ologies have similar tales. Does it make them " workable tech " ?

Scn falls in the same boat ( or pit ) of those that believe do believe in their chosen ology - and those that don't 'see 'it, don't see it.

I've believe one could pray to a fireplug and if one strongly believed in the power & validity of that fire plug then those prayers could produce miraculous results. That is an unproven belief :)
 
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