Book "L Ron Hubbard Messiah or Madman"

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
I explained a lot of it away, internally. I used to vacillate between the "they're SPs" thing and the "they're misguided" mindset. What would happen is I'd start to think a bit, and think, hey, just because they disagree doesn't mean they're evil then I'd go and get some training somewhere in CofS land and I'd get indoctrinated up again and I'd go back to the "they're SPs" mindset.

But it never ever felt right to feel that way, even when I really thought that the church was good.

Oh, god, I didn't get out for years after that. What really did it was getting on the internet. Within a few months of getting on the internet, I was questioning my views seriously, a few months more and I was convinced that CofS was really fucked up but that I should try to stay in maybe and just be unindoctrinated then a year later, I was like, oh god, I'm so sick of those damn people, I'm OUT!!!
 
It's a great story waiting to be told!

Now that's what I'm talkin' about! So many more personal stories available via the internet, not to mention dox, etc. :coolwink:

I just think it's time for another updated version, as the world has shifted on it's axis a little with the advent of the internet websites and message boards (Yeah, ESMB!:)) and thank you Veda for the quotes, and letting people know about the 1996 version with the enlarged index.

Can I add I'd also like to see Bent sell the movie or T.V. rights. It would make a great mini-series or news magazine style docu-drama. :thumbsup:

Bent's personal story is pretty darn interesting, too. But he's kind of shy... :D

Nobody better to tell it than himself! (He wins in the end!!!:happydance:)

Combine his story with David Mayo's, Alan Walter's, maybe a couple of other Mission holders as sub plots, show Ron 's wife and GO dirty deeds, then convicted and going to prison and Ron taking it on the lamb, going into hiding, receiving shoe-boxes of cash regularly from his "loyal officer types", show the Mission revolt and takeover coup by the RTC, led by DM & henchmen, the gutting of the Mission system and what COS has devolved into since then with DM at the helm of RTC, the rise of the RPF in the SO, more financial fraud, more crimes, more abuse, leave it an open-ending dangling with the world wide protest and Critic/Anon movement gaining attention, FBI infiltrating and investigating and you have one hell of a prime time MOVIE!!! :yes: Already set up for a sequel!!! :happydance: And it's all true! :D

Come on now...in sunny southern Teageeack we have ties and contacts in Hollywood! :D I think it's an idea whose time has come! :clap:
 
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SpectrumV

Patron
Messiah or Madman, and Bare Faced Messiah really helped me escape the mindfvck. I had been out for 2 years and still not sure that I was right in leaving Scn. I would sometimes feel that I was no good for leaving the "most ethical group on the planet". Other times I felt that they were better off without a horrible person like me on board. I felt this way (not too often but sometimes) even knowing what I saw: people who were suposed to be spiritually advanced and enlightened behaving like asses, coercion, talking behind peoples backs, liars, etc. etc.
My dad found these books at the library for me. I'm so thankfull that he did. They helped me to realize that I was right for leaving because Co$ is a cult.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Messiah or Madman, and Bare Faced Messiah really helped me escape the mindfvck. I had been out for 2 years and still not sure that I was right in leaving Scn. I would sometimes feel that I was no good for leaving the "most ethical group on the planet". Other times I felt that they were better off without a horrible person like me on board. I felt this way (not too often but sometimes) even knowing what I saw: people who were suposed to be spiritually advanced and enlightened behaving like asses, coercion, talking behind peoples backs, liars, etc. etc.
My dad found these books at the library for me. I'm so thankfull that he did. They helped me to realize that I was right for leaving because Co$ is a cult.

Part of the trap of Scientology is getting each member to internalize certain ideas such as "I am shit if I don't continue to support this wonderful ethical group".

My daughter left the Sea Org a few years back, and they made her feel like shit by telling her that she was a DEGRADED BEING if she left. They showed her the LRH issue where Hubbard describes anyone who leaves the Sea Org to be a DB. She felt that guilt for MANY YEARS after she left, as she had accepted the dumb notion at some point in her Scientology-influenced past.

You are who you choose to be - NOT who you think Hubbard or some over-controlling Church defines you to be.

Very good for you on taking another giant leap away from the crazy twisted world of Scientology. :thumbsup:

+++++++
 
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Dean Blair

Silver Meritorious Patron
Madman or Messiah

Once upon a time I was a Kool Aid drinker. I was in the SO with my wife and my kids. I studied to become a NOTS auditor and a CS. They were very hard times. No money. No food. No time off. All in the name of "clearing the planet".

I left the SO in 1991 when my wife decided that after having completed the "Key to Life Course" that she wanted a divorce. I left the SO but had intended to continue on the "Bridge to total freedom". I was still drinking the Kool Aid and felt that Hubbard was my Messiah.

I never was active again in Scientology and in 2009 decided to be really really bad and see what was being said on the internet. You know...read what the declared SPs were saying and maybe even look up the OT 8 materials if I could find them as I had only gotten to OT 5. Well once I started reading I couldn't stop and every night for many months I would read and read and read. At first I was in denial about much of what the disaffected people were saying. As I continued my investigation however I ran into the St. Petersburg Truth Rundown where a number of people were interviewed and gave their stories. Having been in the SO for twelve years I could tell that what they were saying was true and was not simply "natter". I had considered becoming an "independent Scientologist" but I kept reading and reading.

I finally read "Madman or Messiah" and several other very critical books. I also watched several very critical video interviews such as Hana Whitfield, Jesse Prince, and others. That is when I left Scientology for good and began my life anew.

In January of 2010 I left the "Church of Scientology" forever and I have been doing better than I have ever done. I have had more wins in that short amount of time than I had in all the years I was in. I thank God that I got out of a Godless religion where everyone is aspiring to become "God". A religion that professes they have all the answers but can't even properly care for their own staff. I had been on staff at one org or another from 1969 until 1991 and I have never seen any org able to treat their staff humanely. The whole bloody thing is a fraud and I highly recommend the book written by Bent Corydon and L Ron Hubbard Jr. It is an eye opener and a soul revitalizer.

The internet is something L Ron Hubbard didn't count on. It is also something David Miscavige didn't count on either and it will be his downfall. Amen.
 

Jachs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yeah i know what you mean , i experienced extreme guilt, i can see its a common theme that the teachings install like a uneeded cancer of your soul.
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
The EP of the Bent book

Once upon a time I was a Kool Aid drinker. I was in the SO with my wife and my kids. I studied to become a NOTS auditor and a CS. They were very hard times. No money. No food. No time off. All in the name of "clearing the planet".

I left the SO in 1991 when my wife decided that after having completed the "Key to Life Course" that she wanted a divorce. I left the SO but had intended to continue on the "Bridge to total freedom". I was still drinking the Kool Aid and felt that Hubbard was my Messiah.

I never was active again in Scientology and in 2009 decided to be really really bad and see what was being said on the internet. You know...read what the declared SPs were saying and maybe even look up the OT 8 materials if I could find them as I had only gotten to OT 5. Well once I started reading I couldn't stop and every night for many months I would read and read and read. At first I was in denial about much of what the disaffected people were saying. As I continued my investigation however I ran into the St. Petersburg Truth Rundown where a number of people were interviewed and gave their stories. Having been in the SO for twelve years I could tell that what they were saying was true and was not simply "natter". I had considered becoming an "independent Scientologist" but I kept reading and reading.

I finally read "Madman or Messiah" and several other very critical books. I also watched several very critical video interviews such as Hana Whitfield, Jesse Prince, and others. That is when I left Scientology for good and began my life anew.

In January of 2010 I left the "Church of Scientology" forever and I have been doing better than I have ever done. I have had more wins in that short amount of time than I had in all the years I was in. I thank God that I got out of a Godless religion where everyone is aspiring to become "God". A religion that professes they have all the answers but can't even properly care for their own staff. I had been on staff at one org or another from 1969 until 1991 and I have never seen any org able to treat their staff humanely. The whole bloody thing is a fraud and I highly recommend the book written by Bent Corydon and L Ron Hubbard Jr. It is an eye opener and a soul revitalizer.

The internet is something L Ron Hubbard didn't count on. It is also something David Miscavige didn't count on either and it will be his downfall. Amen.

You got a whole lot further than I ever did. I admire those who were able to get to their oatee levels because they were able to put up with far more than I ever could. I was still hacking my way thru the lower end of the bridge when the horseshit started piling up to the point where I felt it was increasingly overwhelming. While not making a clean break, I felt better the more distance I put between me and the mission. I finally got a job offer in California, and, shortly thereafter, the mission I was at in Connecticut splintered off from Cof$, that was after the mission holder's rebellion meeting in December of 1981. After that, I never went back, but, I was not truely OUT, I was just "away". Mainly, I was out, but not completely ... until I read the Bent Corydon book.

How I wound up with that book was an interesting piece of happenstance. I was using the DBA "Elegant Solutions" for some programming work I was doing. I was also buying a house at the time, and the loan broker was asking about income sources, and I mentioned my DBA. He was going on and on with the name, and playing on the word "Elegant" and then he said "eloquent" and then "Eloquent Elephant". I said "Do you know the Eloquent Elephant?" That was the name of a stand up comic who's real name was Dick Glass, who I met at the San Fran Org. I asked the loan broker if he was a Scientologist, and he said "DON'T GET ME STARTED!" I proceeded to get him started, he was an ex with an ax to grind, his whole family was involved at one time or another, complete with horror stories, the likes of which I had been well shielded from. He referred me to the Bent Corydon book, which I immediately purchased ... and which I simply couldn't put down ... and then I encounted the Oatee III material, aka the "wall of fire". I was seriously spooked, but I read on, my heart pounding ... then I nearly died ... OF LAUGHTER!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS is what the big deal was all about? Some poorly written piece of science fiction??????????????????????????????????????????? Whatever was left of the spell was broken at that point. About the only thing left is some lingering fascination with the whole thing, trying to figure out why it was I got fished in the first place, why did I stay as long as I did, what was it about the HubTurd, what "wins" were real, etc. I must have read that book and the Russell Miller book each a dozen times thru.

Pete
 

Gadfly

Crusader
(snippage)
About the only thing left is some lingering fascination with the whole thing, trying to figure out why it was I got fished in the first place, why did I stay as long as I did, what was it about the HubTurd, what "wins" were real, etc.
Pete

I think that people can underestimate the "pressure" aspect of Scientology.

The contact to and at you is constant, to get you to pay, to get you onto services, to keep you on services, to recruit you for various things, etc.

It is set up that way. Hubbard has the Church staff do TRs, Tone 40 drills, control drills (8C), and indoctrinates them along a very severe "hard sell" approach where NOTHING IS MORE IMPORTANT than getting you onto service NOW!

This same pressure comes down the INT management lines, day by day, even hour by hour! The pressure is intense, and may be more intense than ANY OTHER similar activity on the face of the Earth.

The demand for PRODUCTS is overwhelming along Scientology organization lines, whether that be Org staff, Sea Org staff, IAS, Super Power project, and on and on.

Shit, they are not kidding when they say "we come back". They do, They are like damned gnats or mosquitos, and they never back off, and are trained and ordered heavily to KEEP ON YOU.

That, in part, explains why so many stay in as long as they do. Of course, there are other reasons, depending on your personal situation, such as fear of declare and disconnection from family and friends.

Having been on staff, both in Class 4 orgs, and in the Sea Org, and having trained on MANY courses, I suspect that some or many fail to appreciate how strong of a factor this all is. The above HARD SELL viewpoint is based on EXACT LRH POLICY. It is basic and fundamental to the subject of Scientology.

+++++++++
 
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Telepathetic

Gold Meritorious Patron
I got myself a copy of "L Ron Hubbard Messiah or Madman" and I am about half way through the book, unable to put it down :omg: :omg:

I am sure there are a lot of you on ESMB that have read this book but to those who have not read it. YOU HAVE TO READ THIS BOOK!!!!!

With my experience in scientology I have no reason to doubt anything in this book and so far believe every word in it. THANK GOD I AM OUT OF SCIENTOLOGY that is all I can say.
Ron was a manipulative SOB and the amount of deceit, criminal activities, human abuse, plotting and scamming is alarming.
How scientology has survived this long is something that puzzles me.
Any group that has this much connection to criminal activities and human abuse surely would have been banned.
Nothing in the actions of current management leads me to believe they are any different either.

I would love to hear anybody's opinion on this, anyone got any thoughts??

There is something I want to discuss on this board and I have thought about it a lot so would appreciate your opinions/advice on this.
Maybe its because scio still has some effect on me I don't know but I will just put my thoughts down for you as they come to mind.

How could anybody in their good mind after reading this book and in our experiences that have lead us to this forum allow their family members to be involved in such a cult. Then I think well everybody has a right to make their own choices in life and its their decision. But that's crap as they are not willing to look and more than that are not allowed to look so when you say hey guys you need to take a look at this they scream "Freedom of religion. Stop attacking my religion".

Should one respect their personal decision?

I see it more like watching a family member do cocaine and as he believes it does him no harm and is not willing to listen to anyone in regards to the harm it causes should you just leave him to his addiction and walk away knowing full well it will kill him, after all it's his decision? Okay fare enough we are not quiet talking about death here but you get the idea.

We all know the sh.t that would hit the fan if I actually kicked up a storm about their involvement in scio and went out of my way to show them the other side. Possible ending up in disconnection.

But is that not better than staying quiet?

Who knows maybe years down the line they will look back and say hey he was right he was just looking out for us.

Or maybe their lives derail and I sat back knowing scio was no good but did nothing. To me that would be worse.

Ones own kids, parents and sisters could be lost to you possible forever if they remain with scio.

I feel if I do not confront them on this that scio is winning and still has some control over me. Surely a good father or family member would protect all in his family from deceit and manipulation from others.

I will leave it at that as I think you all get the idea as to what I am trying to say and I would love some feedback or personal experiences any of you have had with this.

You have a clear mind my friend. I like the way you write; you are succinct.

Anyway, your comments resonate with me. But, I'd like you to read something you wrote:

How could anybody in their good mind after reading this book and in our experiences that have lead us to this forum allow their family members to be involved in such a cult. Then I think well everybody has a right to make their own choices in life and its their decision. But that's crap as they are not willing to look and more than that are not allowed to look so when you say hey guys you need to take a look at this they scream "Freedom of religion. Stop attacking my religion".


After working on staff for 10 consecutive years I took a break from"saving the world." This was during 1991 or 1992. Because of my position on staff I had had various "entheta" books in my possession and one of these was Mad Man or Messiah. I never read it while I was on staff but I did read it shortly after beginning my "sabbatical." I of course did not look in the chapter which contained the OT III materials, for I was still a true believer back then.

Would you believe it if I told you that I rejoined staff shortly after reading that book! That book was, to a degree, the contributing factor. It boggles my mind now, it really does! It also embarrasses the hell out of me! But, the truth is, I actually did do this IN-F'ING-SANE thing of joining staff after reading that book!

Today though, I consider my experience in Scientology as a gift. I'm not being ironic, I truly believe this, for now anyway. :D

Consider this:

Here I was, a man who would be willing to rejoin a group that he knew had been involved in many shady activities and that its leader was a lying sadistic and opportunistic megalomaniac. I knew back then a lot less than I do now, of course, but I still knew enough. I'd experienced The Mad Theatrical House and its Players. There was no reason to doubt *most* of what had been written in that book. I had also seen and heard personally a lot of," what should never be seen nor heard by the herd!" And in spite of all this, I stayed on till around 2005 or 2006.

WHAT A WACKO!

But, in my defense, I can say that, I finally left the cult, with its lingo, and its "think." HOPEFULLY ! Though I think I still need more work in the area. Also, I am here now, on this Board, and elsewhere trying to warn others of the con!
To me, warning others simply means: advising individuals of their right to KNOW...

Now that my friend, is what I call case gain:coolwink: I feel as if I've been able to transform a negative into a positive. I don't mean to sound corny but, I'll tell 'ya, I really have come to appreciate this "unique" experience. :wink2: But be clear, I wouldn't wish this type of "lesson" on anyone else!

I woke up and I'm thankful, that's all I'm really trying to say here. :) I lost my dog-mas and I'm not even sad about it.

Best wishes,

TP
 

Petey C

Silver Meritorious Patron
I read the book not long after I escaped from Happy Valley/Int. It was given to me by another ex. I sort of gulped it down in one swallow. It was horrifying and startling. Until then I was sort of in the mind-set where I thought, Scn OK, DM and his henchmen, not OK. I was even there on the sidelines during that whole Mission Holders' thing, which Bill Franks was involved with -- and which surely was the catalyst at the time for his fall from grace and departure. So I knew what Bent was saying was true, and it took that book to give me a "new slant on life" -- in other words, his interpretation of events I'd seen just made my eyes fly open. I realised that I had been going through life in the SO with my eyes half closed, justifying what I saw around me, refusing to believe the obvious, and not comprehending what I was doing to myself and to others.
As someone else has posted here, you're told when you want to leave that you're a degraded being. It's actually a pretty powerful idea that someone has to get over, either by saying WTF I don't care, or by realising that it's untrue. I left believing it was true. Bent's book gave me a new lens to see my experiences in (just as, many years later, ESMB did too). It's a classic for exes and all who leave should read it. The real degraded beings are the ones who impose these unbelievable ideas on others.
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
I think that people can underestimate the "pressure" aspect of Scientology . . . <snipetty snip snip> . . .

Absolutely. I am now of the opinion that when inside the cult few, if any, decisions can be described as rational. I also believe that it can take literally years and years of living without Scientology before all the harm it causes can be transformed into valuable life lessons. I base my beliefs on the remarkable Devine Declaration:

. . . <snip . . . In this document, I offer my analysis of how the Headleys were manipulated and socialized by Scientology to a point where they lost their ability to make clear, independent decisions. Whether or not the Headleys sincerely believed in the tenets of Scientology, the pressures upon them made it extremely difficult to express their grievances and even more difficult for them to leave the organization. Again, this is not to say it was impossible for them to leave. Psychologists understand that, even under the most intense pressures, individuals react on a normal curve, meaning there are always outliers who defy the pressures. Given the intensity of the coercion in this case, however, I conclude with confidence that a normal person – which I define here as an average person – would not have been capable of walking away; and, I am convinced by these depositions, very few individuals experiencing this series of pressures would have been capable of clearly weighing the issues, costs and benefits that would enable them to make rational decisions . . . <snip> . . .
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
As someone else has posted here, you're told when you want to leave that you're a degraded being. It's actually a pretty powerful idea that someone has to get over, either by saying WTF I don't care, or by realising that it's untrue.

I was definitely in the WTF catagory, there was only so much shit that I was willing to put up with. In fact, I would say that I was a WTF on steroids. Even still, it took a sort of fading away from it as opposed to a sudden decision.

Pete
 
Story please?

I read the book not long after I escaped from Happy Valley/Int. It was given to me by another ex. I sort of gulped it down in one swallow. It was horrifying and startling. Until then I was sort of in the mind-set where I thought, Scn OK, DM and his henchmen, not OK. I was even there on the sidelines during that whole Mission Holders' thing, which Bill Franks was involved with -- and which surely was the catalyst at the time for his fall from grace and departure. So I knew what Bent was saying was true, and it took that book to give me a "new slant on life" -- in other words, his interpretation of events I'd seen just made my eyes fly open. I realised that I had been going through life in the SO with my eyes half closed, justifying what I saw around me, refusing to believe the obvious, and not comprehending what I was doing to myself and to others.
As someone else has posted here, you're told when you want to leave that you're a degraded being. It's actually a pretty powerful idea that someone has to get over, either by saying WTF I don't care, or by realising that it's untrue. I left believing it was true. Bent's book gave me a new lens to see my experiences in (just as, many years later, ESMB did too). It's a classic for exes and all who leave should read it. The real degraded beings are the ones who impose these unbelievable ideas on others.

Petey, have you written your story about this here on ESMB? If so, can I have a link? If not, would you consider writing it for us? :prettyplease: Thank you...I'm glad for all of you who have found/are finding your freedom! :happydance:
 

Miss Ellie

Miss Ellie
I was out

I was out for years before I read my first "anti-Scio" book... I didn't know they were around... if they were. This was in 1989 or so. I read it start to finish & was "scared" that "THEY" would know what I was reading about "them" & "they" come get me. I had dropped off the radar & did not want to be found. Why I thought they would know is beyond me.

Reading that book was like giving myself permission to be out. The pessure to stay in and wanting to have "it" work on me was intense.... I thought it was me that was wrong... not them. After all it seemed to work for them - why not me?

I had felt like it was BS from the time I was brougt in as a child but if I worked at it and clicked the ruby slippers it would work for me...

"Never regret yesterday for life is in you today & you make your tomorrow" .. and all my tomorrows will be without "them".
 

Jachs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Im seeing these comments of fear and terror for reading anti scio books.

How the trap was set. very over-powering. and all the guys still in feeling that immense pressure to conform and not step over the guillotine line.

comm eved and

execution-guillotine-louis_~1156664.jpg
 

PTSPal

Patron with Honors
consider this

DM has been in control of the COS almost as long as LRH was...I think a new book should be in the works along these lines. Bare Faced Messiah is old news. The baby faced midget is where its at :yes:
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
yes, but ...

DM has been in control of the COS almost as long as LRH was...I think a new book should be in the works along these lines. Bare Faced Messiah is old news. The baby faced midget is where its at :yes:

Yes, but the HubTurd had "causatively discarded his body" and "moved on to research upper bands of oatee" before the "barefaced" and "madman"books were written. Davey hasn't even absconded with the money yet.

Pete
 

Petey C

Silver Meritorious Patron
Petey, have you written your story about this here on ESMB? If so, can I have a link? If not, would you consider writing it for us? :prettyplease: Thank you...I'm glad for all of you who have found/are finding your freedom! :happydance:

Hi S&L. Yes, I posted it last year -- see http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=16482

For what it's worth, anyway. Unlike some others here on this board, I did not have to endure years on the RPF, I was never beaten physically, I was not flung into the streets with kids to look after. So my story is not as dramatic as some. And it all happened decades ago, just at the point of the rise of the dwarf aka mini-me. This all means I am older than I've ever been in my life!

Petey
 
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