Breaking Cognitive Dissonance...

[Panda Termint]

Agreed. Confirmation Bias is a double-edged sword which can nick a critic just as easily as a cultist.

 

[Jump]

Agreed. Confirmation Bias is a double-edged sword which can nick a critic just as easily as a cultist.

However, to that first approximation, everything the cult does is totally nutso.

 

[Panda Termint]

However, to that first approximation, everything the cult does is totally nutso.

Get a Band-Aid on that before you bleed to death!

 

[TheOriginalBigBlue]

I find myself experiencing internal stress because I agree with something the COS does. Even if you don't agree with this message I think we all have experienced a similar phenomenon.

FYI, I think we call an old thread brought back to life a "Zombie Thread".

Anyhoo, can we agree that LRH was manipulative? By definition that would imply that he used information in a calculated way to cause people to do things that they would not ordinarily do. Have any of us seen the real disclosure that every newbie public or staff should receive? Cons are not built on honesty, they are built on clever application of the truth to make the close. Scientology must be built with a facade of very believable and sound truths if it is to last beyond the initial pitch.

The swastika is a very old symbol with spiritual connotations and it pops up repeatedly in different cultures all over the world. It is still an architectural feature on many pre-war buildings in America. Just because Hitler stigmatized a perfectly good symbol doesn't mean we can no longer understand and appreciate its true history and meaning. If we can't, then Hitler is still pulling our strings. Is there a little LRH or DM in our heads telling us that we can or cannot think a certain way because they colored it to their own destructive purpose? Purging the dogma includes purging its control by illogical contrarian reaction.

But as to the long list of Cognitive Dissonance or whatever one wants to call it, LRH made much of how he was able to achieve great things because he was such an independent well traveled master of all skills and fields of knowledge and by following his one true path everyone could be as great. Yet, by joining staff a person is agreeing to the opposite. We know of people who have been stuck doing essentially the same thing for decades, virtually impoverished with maybe an average of 1-2 days of actual vacation time per year and they are not permitted to study all the other subjects that LRH studied. If a Sea Org member studied psychiatry, hypnotism or Aleister Crowley they would probably be punished severely. According to Scientology only LRH could expose himself to non-KSW information and come away unscathed.

For many people Scientology means accepting the reality of oneself as second class while believing it will make you first class. All Thetans are equal, but some Thetans are more equal than others.

 

[cleared cannibal]

Thanks to all.

A lot of my issues are due to the fact that I am not disconnected from the COS.

I genuinely like many of the staff members I deal with and find it hard to be really mean to them. There are three primary types of scientologists in my opinion.

1. Idealistic, usually young adults, who want to help people and save the world.

2.People which have have experienced a loss/crisis and reach out to Scn for help.

3. Psychopaths who want to control and degrade others.

These do not include those born in and know nothing else. In my experience at the class V orgs most of those I deal with are the first type. They are good at getting me to second guess myself especially when they come up with these things I agree with. It is hard when those you care about and respect in many ways are all telling you that you are wrong. I've just had a lot of incoming salvos in the last couple of weeks and has got me a little down.

When I have run into the 3rd type mostly at advanced orgs it has always been easy for me. I even kind of like that regging as I can usually see them for what they are and deal with in way they deserve.

Sheila, am I to understand that you think the male is the manipulative one of the species verses the classically accepted concept of the devious female? What about the snake?

 

[Enthetan]

Sorry to resurrect this old thread but I am trying to follow the suggestion of not starting new threads when an existing one exists.

In my in-box recently is an example of why I have some cognitive dissonance. I agree with most of the message , with the possible exception of the anti-psych stuff.

I find myself experiencing internal stress because I agree with something the COS does. Even if you don't agree with this message I think we all have experienced a similar phenomenon.

I dammed sure don't want to change my beliefs because of Scn, but I find myself feeling uncomfortable agreeing with them.

Any suggestions?

For Scientology to work as a con, it can't ALL be false. LRH incorporated a lot of common sense observations (mostly stolen from others), and mixed it in with his drivel.

Sanity consists of being able to spot the drivel, but keep the stuff that actually makes sense.

 

[JustSheila]

Thanks to all.

A lot of my issues are due to the fact that I am not disconnected from the COS.

I genuinely like many of the staff members I deal with and find it hard to be really mean to them. There are three primary types of scientologists in my opinion.

1. Idealistic, usually young adults, who want to help people and save the world.

2.People which have have experienced a loss/crisis and reach out to Scn for help.

3. Psychopaths who want to control and degrade others.

These do not include those born in and know nothing else. In my experience at the class V orgs most of those I deal with are the first type. They are good at getting me to second guess myself especially when they come up with these things I agree with. It is hard when those you care about and respect in many ways are all telling you that you are wrong. I've just had a lot of incoming salvos in the last couple of weeks and has got me a little down.

When I have run into the 3rd type mostly at advanced orgs it has always been easy for me. I even kind of like that regging as I can usually see them for what they are and deal with in way they deserve.

Yeh, Scientology can attract some awesome people, and also some real creeps. I agree with all you say here, and know what you mean. When someone trying to impose their beliefs on me gets too annoying, I tend to spend less time with them, no matter how nice they are about it. Pretty much all Scientologists talk about is Scientology, they see everything through Scientology. I got real bored with that after I left the SO, so it didn't take long before I stopped talking to them and hanging out with them because I found fully outs and life itself far more interesting because it wasn't through the Scn filter. There was so much catching up to do! So much to read, to study, to compare! So many places to go, so many interesting people! It's a natural process to spend more or less time with people depending on your interests. Try to resist thinking in terms of "handle or disconnect." Relationships have a thousand shades of gray between. It is only Scn that insists otherwise, and this becomes quite a problem, eventually.

Sheila, am I to understand that you think the male is the manipulative one of the species verses the classically accepted concept of the devious female? What about the snake?

Oh, dear. Definitely not. I love men. Though I find some far more endearing than others. I'm sure you can say the same about women. It's stereotypes I dislike. It was tongue in cheek and an exercise in imagination, so I thought it would be fun to switch the story around a bit. It worked just as well for the man to trick Eve, didn't it? So it could have happened. :confused2: Hey, men and women are equally capable of both great and terrible things and equally accountable.

There are few actual differences between men and women beyond physical and hormonal, and those differences are adorable. Young girls build castles with ornate entrances, boys build towers. 3 out of 4 men can envision 3-dimensional things easily, like maps, only 1 out of 4 women can do so. Women learn just a touch more easily through the written word than men, men learn just a bit more easily with hands-on than women.

So why should women be stereotyped as temptresses, sirens, whores, virgins or madonnas? We're all a bit of all of that.

Anyone can write a myth. Anyone can believe it is fact, too, if they're crazy enough. My main point (which I didn't get across very well, getting carried away with rewriting another possible Genesis story, lol), is we are naturally connected to each other. That is our natural state, we don't need myths to bind us, or to always have an enemy. But we are flawed, all of us. There is no quick-fix in Scientology or any other ology. There is no cure except to keep working our best to be more humane and compassionate every day and quit being such perfectionists about it.

PS - Darn! I missed the snake! The Australian aborigine see the snake as the Creator, btw, and the snake eats its tail as a symbol of life going round and round and round in one big circle.

 

[cleared cannibal]

Yeh, Scientology can attract some awesome people, and also some real creeps. I agree with all you say here, and know what you mean. When someone trying to impose their beliefs on me gets too annoying, I tend to spend less time with them, no matter how nice they are about it. Pretty much all Scientologists talk about is Scientology, they see everything through Scientology. I got real bored with that after I left the SO, so it didn't take long before I stopped talking to them and hanging out with them because I found fully outs and life itself far more interesting because it wasn't through the Scn filter. There was so much catching up to do! So much to read, to study, to compare! So many places to go, so many interesting people! It's a natural process to spend more or less time with people depending on your interests. Try to resist thinking in terms of "handle or disconnect." Relationships have a thousand shades of gray between. It is only Scn that insists otherwise, and this becomes quite a problem, eventually.



Oh, dear. Definitely not. I love men. Though I find some far more endearing than others. I'm sure you can say the same about women. It's stereotypes I dislike. It was tongue in cheek and an exercise in imagination, so I thought it would be fun to switch the story around a bit. It worked just as well for the man to trick Eve, didn't it? So it could have happened. :confused2: Hey, men and women are equally capable of both great and terrible things and equally accountable.

There are few actual differences between men and women beyond physical and hormonal, and those differences are adorable. Young girls build castles with ornate entrances, boys build towers. 3 out of 4 men can envision 3-dimensional things easily, like maps, only 1 out of 4 women can do so. Women learn just a touch more easily through the written word than men, men learn just a bit more easily with hands-on than women.

So why should women be stereotyped as temptresses, sirens, whores, virgins or madonnas? We're all a bit of all of that.

Anyone can write a myth. Anyone can believe it is fact, too, if they're crazy enough. My main point (which I didn't get across very well, getting carried away with rewriting another possible Genesis story, lol), is we are naturally connected to each other. That is our natural state, we don't need myths to bind us, or to always have an enemy. But we are flawed, all of us. There is no quick-fix in Scientology or any other ology. There is no cure except to keep working our best to be more humane and compassionate every day and quit being such perfectionists about it.

PS - Darn! I missed the snake! The Australian aborigine see the snake as the Creator, btw, and the snake eats its tail as a symbol of life going round and round and round in one big circle.

Your Adam/Eve rendition gave me some food for thought. That is the whole reality/fantasy/faith axis.

I think we all need all three. Everyone could benefit from a good fantasy now and then whether it is grounded in reality or not. To me faith is fantasy you believe and run your life by. This is not to say all faith is bad or even untrue, just unproven by scientific standards . It can be very beneficial if it is not in conflict with reality as it gives one a since of purpose. The problem with at least the organized COS is that it is in conflict with reality and if one tries to run their life in conflict with reality nasty consequences will occur.

I think Scn has damaged my fantasy/faith ability which is an important part of ones psyche. I guess it is better than having faith in a very reality damaging philosophy .

Feel free to help with my fantasy life all. Remember this is a PG-13 site!!