Breaking: Rathbun v Miscavige -- Defendants Filed In Appeals Court - Feb 14, 2014

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Operating teatime
Re: Breaking: Rathbun v Miscavige -- Defendants Filed In Appeals Court - Feb 14, 20

I think it is a very reasonable estimate to say that each of the Jefferson brothers will personally earn $1M each this year from Miscavige.

All things considered, it's pretty cool to be a sociopath and have exhilarated cult members giving you all their money so that you can continue to do evil shit.




What?! Captain David Miscavige, the ecclesiastical leader of a religion, is the only one who can save us all from the dwindling spiral and take us to a world without evil or insanity!






:goodluck:
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Re: Breaking: Rathbun v Miscavige -- Defendants Filed In Appeals Court - Feb 14, 20

Monique Rathbun - I truly hope that at some time soon you have the opportunity for a peaceful life with your family.

Maybe she'll settle for at some time [STRIKE]soon[/STRIKE] you have the opportunity for a peaceful life with your family and $10 million.

Paul
 

DagwoodGum

Squirreling Dervish
Re: Breaking: Rathbun v Miscavige -- Defendants Filed In Appeals Court - Feb 14, 20

See how the perpetrators of the scam are beating everyone else to the punch and screaming "I'm the victim"? Knew it would happen right prior to the organization folding like an accordion, there's money in it and anyone who thinks these guys are too ethical to cheat them are fools and deserve this. Time to pull those dusty class action ideas off the shelf and beat the scum bags to the pot of gold. In fact, it was just discussed on another thread. Who's DM going to set up to replace himself with in order that he can follow suit and bleed it for all it's worth? If I hadn't gotten out so long ago with a negligible amount of money spent, maybe $15,000 at most. But it was the timing of the expenses that derailed me when I should have been involved in a legitimate form of education.


  • 15th February 2014, 02:33 PM #29
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    Re: Scientology leaflet attack on Ex-Scientologist Mike Rinder[/h]
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    Originally Posted by DagwoodGum
    Has anyone considered the possibility that some of these former execs appearing to walk away and then be openly harassed by the remaining $cilons Is a setup for an entirely legal wealth transfer, a pre-planned retirement if you will? I mean, how else could one "legally" extract millions from the coffers except through a harassment lawsuit by pretending to be a victimized ex now, with all the priors that can be brought up on the churches part in court, sparking a massive lawsuit/settlement through some corrupt legal wrangling? Nice retirement fund for senior execs if it is the case. OH WHAT PERCS THOSE AT THE TOP SEIZE FOR THEMSELVES THESE DAYS IN OUR SOCIETY. I walk away, you pretend to F with me, I sue & walk away with a massive settlement and live out my life on easy street. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to picture their execs watch their real victims walk off with millions and wonder "hey, why not me, we can cook something up so easily!" I've seen even craftier "exit strategies" in the corporate world. Sheesh, I shoulda stayed in...:omg:




    I hear what you are saying here and agree - it appears that the people that are closest to the top of the scum get nice retirements at our expense to keep them quiet...but they sell their soul completely to the devil...

    Heh Lurkers - your IAS donations go to keep the high ranking officials from telling you the truth about the criminal Organization called Scientology - just so you are aware of where the money really goes!! Don't you dare ask to see financial statements because you will get kicked out and shunned for questioning COB!!

    Can you imagine taking millions to never speak about Scientology again fully knowing that people were and are financially ruined. Remember why you joined? You got in to help humanity but after you find out the entire show is a scam...you now allow yourself to participate in such criminal bribery and extortion? I don't get that at all!! I don't think I could do it but until I am in their shoes - I will never know if I was utterly ruined by my involvement and could not function - so I do understand.

    From what I read, Mike Rinder was offered "gag" money and refused to take it and be gagged...so if that is true, I have a lot of respect for him. I think he and Marty are out to take this baby all the way down and I fully support them.

    Debbie Cook, I believed, turned over the list of people that supported her financially to defend her lawsuit (people got declared for donating to that cause and I don't know how OSA found out unless Debbie Cook spilled the beans..does anyone know?)

    Wayne and Debbie Cook most likely got a nice GAG Retirement fund of probably millions...I know she was ill and caved in and had signed agreements etc...but it would be wrong morally for me to take the gag money...I would not be a happy camper. Everytime I withdraw money from that account - there is blood dripping off of it.

    Maybe at the end of their lives they could come clean - like Hy Levy did! He certainly told all!!

    I would love to hear about that from exes that took gagged money but won't hold my breath - because they are gagged!:duh:




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    Re: Scientology leaflet attack on Ex-Scientologist Mike Rinder[/h]
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    Originally Posted by Knows
    I hear what you are saying here and agree - it appears that the people that are closest to the top of the scum get nice retirements at our expense to keep them quiet...but they sell their soul completely to the devil...can you imagine taking millions to never speak about Scientology again, knowing that people were financially ruined. And...you got in to help humanity but after you find out the entire show is a scam...you now allow yourself to participate in such criminal bribery and extortion?

    But - from what I read, Mike Rinder was offered "gag" money and refused to take it and be gagged...so if that is true, I have a lot of respect for him.

    Debbie Cook, I believed, turned over the list of people that supported her financially to defend her lawsuit and got a nice GAG GIFT of probably millions...I know she was ill and caved in and had signed agreements etc...but it would be wrong morally for me to take the gag money...I would not be a happy camper. Everytime I withdraw money from that account - there is blood dripping off of it.

    I would love to hear about that from exes that took gagged money but won't hold my breath - because they are gagged!:duh:



    Nice post, clearly you wear no blinders! I don't know the who's and when's of all this, it's just that I can see how easy it would be, and like you said "but after you find out the entire show is a scam...you now allow yourself to participate in such criminal bribery and extortion..." And like you also said, it really would be a personal ethics violation to be part of one more swindle against the public good, but I'm not certain of who has sufficient ethics to not take the money and run, within their current and former ranks as I haven't been involved for a very long time..​


    Closet Elron Impersonator/Channeler & Nocturnal Dictionary Hugger. Immunized during my incarceration at Rontanamo Bay against the gnashing of teeth & psychological castration from special interest groups, cults and cliques, irregardless of their layers of stratagems, subterfuge and chicanery ! :batseyelashes:


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koki

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: Breaking: Rathbun v Miscavige -- Defendants Filed In Appeals Court - Feb 14, 20

funny, how some anonymous TX lawyer , is giving better comments on Monique's case....
and now Tony must make add for Scott,but again put TX lawyer....
few weeks ago i did post about Scott's predictions- which are usually - not on spot.... :coolwink:
but this is big game,no one can predict what is next move... TX lawyer is nearest...:)
Tikk must learn more.

wish they use more A. Lerma on legal problems....
 
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Churchill

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Breaking: Rathbun v Miscavige -- Defendants Filed In Appeals Court - Feb 14, 20

This is from Scientology's Prayer, copied from Tony Ortega's blog today.

This is perhaps a good moment to repeat the results of a meticulous study of Scientology churches and missions carried out some time ago by members of this board. The results were published on ESMB at the link below. On the basis of their own data we can say with confidence that what they claim is a lie. Scientology does not have thousands of churches or millions of follower in 150 countries.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...ALLELED-GROWTH-SINCE-2004&p=813951#post813951

SITUATION OF CoS in January 2013.

At that time they were claiming more than 11,000 Scientology Churches, Missions and affiliated groups in 167 nations.

These are purely imaginary figures.

True facts: in January 2013, giving them the benefit of any doubt, using their own lists of active orgs and missions, they had at most 465 'churches' in 60 countries. That's 465 orgs and missions instead of the 11,000 they claim.

Their membership was reckoned to be at most 60,000 and declining quite rapidly especially in Europe and North America.

If anyone is looking for a blatant lie, there it is.



Absolutely correct. Wallace Jefferson, by representing such patently false and easily disprovable information to the Appeals Court in his pleading, has done irreparable damage to his standing and reputation in the legal community of Texas.
One can only hope that he was well compensated for his efforts by CAPTAIN MISCAVIGE.
 

uncover

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Breaking: Rathbun v Miscavige -- Defendants Filed In Appeals Court - Feb 14, 20

I was reading Tony's blog article and as I got into his very first quoted sentence from the writ:

Contrary to the theatrical caricature the Plaintiff has pleaded below, the Church of Scientology is a recognized religion, practiced in thousands of churches and missions by millions of followers in more than 150 countries.

I immediately saw in it just as you say; words out of their own mouth will hang em high, the deception, the lies, the bogus embellishments of fact

uhmmm 'THOUSANDS OF CHURCHS AND MISSIONS' UHHH okay please provide the names, addresses and names and contact numbers of staff who can be reached to verify this statement at let's say two time points. Last fiscal year ending and comparatively Jan 1st 2014. The court will randomly contact 300 of these staff and ask for their affidavits. If we find this any pattern of falsehood....writ denied... if the staff are not available, writ denied.
.....
Forget about this dream of a "fact finding mission". The court of appeals won´t be doing this - it´s not their business now. They only will rule about the legal aspects of this writ of mandamus and not about the (wrong) "facts" (only) used to present the legal question properly.

As the TX Lawyer wrote on Tony Ortega´s blog:
TX Lawyer said:
On Wallace Jefferson: He certainly knows how to present an appeal or a mandamus proceeding.

And Scott Pilotuk outlined more precisely:
It’s a very well-drafted petition, which shouldn’t be a surprise, I guess. Wallace Jefferson clearly understands what judges want to read.
And the last thing judges expect to read is "the truth". They (only) want to read what is really needed to judge the case - which is at the moment only a legal question and not a question of the circumstances of the main case. This will probably become Judge Waldrips job in the first place.
 

koki

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: Breaking: Rathbun v Miscavige -- Defendants Filed In Appeals Court - Feb 14, 20

Forget about this dream of a "fact finding mission". The court of appeals won´t be doing this - it´s not their business now. They only will rule about the legal aspects of this writ of mandamus and not about the (wrong) "facts" (only) used to present the legal question properly.

As the TX Lawyer wrote on Tony Ortega´s blog:


And Scott Pilotuk outlined more precisely:

And the last thing judges expect to read is "the truth". They (only) want to read what is really needed to judge the case - which is at the moment only a legal question and not a question of the circumstances of the main case. This will probably become Judge Waldrips job in the first place.
if you can understand what I want to explain(copy from another thread) :

lawyers are not there to do judges job... lawyers are there to test legal laws... it does not mater ,is one guilty or not-point is to TEST a law... One never knows when something similar can happen to one itself....so his/lawyers job is to test/question law! if somehow lawyer gets to "free" murderer ,it is not his fault-it is the law ,that have mistakes..... (sorry on my bad English...):biggrin:
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Re: Breaking: Rathbun v Miscavige -- Defendants Filed In Appeals Court - Feb 14, 20

I am a legal ignoramus and have only read the snippets on Tony's blog. But surely the writ should be truthful, or the lies at least cloaked in some truthfulness?

Millions of members? How can that be proven as the truth? Where does the responsibility lie in respect to the truthfulness of court documents? The lawyers? Do the lawyers have a duty to tell the court the truth or a resemblance of it, however it gets twisted? Twisted and stretched truth would be expected in the battle.

Can they say that they are the figures given by the church and it was put in the document in good faith?

Why would they risk the suit by putting in a blatant lie? I don't understand the legal logic at all. The point could have been made by saying "many thousands".

Like I say, legal ignoramus.
It is really amusing that Miscavige even has his lawyers parroting the official press lines of hundreds of churches and millions of members. I wonder if they are going to be trying Shermanspeak and rolling thunder two hour soliloquies next.

Then there is the ARIS survey which didn't list Scn as it was too small
a response to accurately measure. We are left with their estimate based on
maybe a couple of dozen replies that the US has 20-25,000 members in the US.
 

secretiveoldfag

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: Breaking: Rathbun v Miscavige -- Defendants Filed In Appeals Court - Feb 14, 20

I'm thinking that perhaps the CO$ lawyers are on some kind of a little "bonus system" - where they get their base hourly fee and then a "reward per word" for their filings. :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


Regarding the stats given within the documents, I don't think Judge Waldrip is going to care whether there are 10 million or 10 billion members of the CO$. It isn't going to make any difference in what he needs to consider. Although, the 10 million member figure might not fit well into the anti-SLAPP motion, since it is designed to protect the little guy from big entities.

I'm sure you're right: the membership figures are not relevant.

What is perhaps relevant is that the claim of thousands of 'churches' in 150 countries is a lie. Working from their own website, where every Org and Mission in every country is listed, they have fewer than 500 centres in only 60 countries. And a lot of them are tiny, one or two people and an answering machine.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Re: Breaking: Rathbun v Miscavige -- Defendants Filed In Appeals Court - Feb 14, 20

What?! Captain David Miscavige, the ecclesiastical leader of a religion, is the only one who can save us all from the dwindling spiral and take us to a world without evil or insanity!
:goodluck:


David Miscavige? If that guy holds the key to eternity, something is majorly fucked up with the universe and I opt out of immortality. lol
 
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freethinker

Sponsor
Re: Breaking: Rathbun v Miscavige -- Defendants Filed In Appeals Court - Feb 14, 20

The Bill of Rights has always applied to the States despite the fact tnat the Supreme Court chose to think otherwise.

It still says that Congress shall make no laws...

Congress did not write the Bill of Rights, it can only follow it.

Each state has it's own Constitution. The Constitution of my state always restricted the government from harmng private rights because in the United States of America, the People created the government, not the other way around.

My point is basically this, Miscavige cannot assert his rights at the expense of violating Mosey's because the Bill of Rights protects people and that is what it was written for.

Most states already protected the rights of people but they are not bound to protect one humans rights over anothers because that is a violation of egual protectrion of the law. It comes down to who really violated rights and that is what this court can and should decide.


Let's look at the absurdity of the situation.

The Cult is saying that it has protected first amendment rights to free speech, association etc. and that gave them the right to harass Mosey.

By saying this, they also assert that Mosey, because she publicly blogged on Marty's website somehow doesn't have the First Amendment right to free speech and association because she did so publicly but memebers of the Cult can publicly harrass her because they do have protected rights.

Where is the equality in that?

Doesn't Mosey have the same protected rights?

The difference here is that Mosey merely blogged her free speech by using free association to do it on Marty's blog but no one was hurt and the Cult has not offered any evidence that anyone was harmed by her asserting her rights.

But Mosey also has her fourth, fifth and fourteenth amendment rights not to be harrassed for excercising her First Amendment rights.

It's like Attorney Hyman said, You can't have it both ways, you can't violate rights to protect them and that is the reason Mosey has a case.

I don't have the time to write an extensive article right now, but please, trust me, the First Amendment applies to state laws and state governmental actions under the incorporation doctrine.

Ok, don't trust me, but please follow the link. :coolwink:
 
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Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Re: Breaking: Rathbun v Miscavige -- Defendants Filed In Appeals Court - Feb 14, 20

Absolutely correct. Wallace Jefferson, by representing such patently false and easily disprovable information to the Appeals Court in his pleading, has done irreparable damage to his standing and reputation in the legal community of Texas.

This readily-disprovable point about the number of churches and missions and size of the membership shows how nonchalantly the CofS will enter false information into court records. They seem to treat facts and opinions with equal weight.

We know what a bunch of liars they are, but every bit of evidence helps. :)

Paul
 

MissWog

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: Breaking: Rathbun v Miscavige -- Defendants Filed In Appeals Court - Feb 14, 20

Are they counting every mission and org ever open in that total? Bc the two near me are closed and they are listed on their site as open.
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
Re: Rathbun v Miscavige -- Miscavige + RTC Filed In Appeals Court - Feb 14, 2014

Most fortunately, today's article at The Underground Bunker provides excellent legal commentary by very smart people about the Writ of Mandamus petition filed by RTC + DM.

Here's the link: http://tonyortega.org/2014/02/20/sc...ntologys-petition-to-the-texas-appeals-court/

My original thread title used the word "defendants" and, technically speaking, this is wrong.
RTC + Captain Miscavige reject that label entirely; and, as neither has been deemed a "defendant" by a judge in this case as yet, they remain "named parties" who communicate with the courts via "special appearance".
My bad - no harm intended, I promise. I've changed the thread title in this post, but cannot change the thread title in the original post.

I'm still reading the petition + supporting documents filed in the Appeals Court by TeamRTC+DM and haven't yet read TeamCSI's filing in the Trial Court re: 'findings of fact/conclusions of law' which relates to the Anti-SLAPP Motions to Dismiss, but I certainly appreciate all of the points/theories raised here at ESMB and The Underground Bunker and wanted to thank everyone for helping me to better understand this legal tangle. Snarls aplenty in this litigation - ugh!

Early this morning, while reading the newspaper, I thought:
A real chairman-of-the-board would never be permitted to throw such obscene amounts of money on legal fees.
Such waste goes far beyond fiscal irresponsibility; in fact, it's fiscal irrationality.
Real COBs are mindful of the consequences attached to any breach of their fiduciary duties, which is why they act with prudence.

Of course, it's not the COB of Co$ spending boatloads of money/time/effort to thwart a (relatively) minor legal challenge in Texas.
It's the Captain of the Sea Organization that's calling the shots here.

That COB of Co$ + CPT SO are the same person is, imo, what needs to be highlighted to EVERY judge in connection with this litigation...and all future litigation. Especially so in light of TeamRTC+DM's argument re: apex discovery doctrine.
Can TeamRathbun press this 'blurred role' issue with a request to separately depose COB-Co$ and CPT-SO?
Depose Captain Miscavige and let him answer the questions.
Next...depose COB Miscavige and let him answer the questions.

The apex discovery doctrine may shield COB from a deposition. The Appeals Court will make that decision.
But is the CPT-SO similarly shielded? Maybe...but only if the Appeals Court is made aware of this separate role as played/performed by DM.

JB
 

DagwoodGum

Squirreling Dervish
Re: Breaking: Rathbun v Miscavige -- Defendants Filed In Appeals Court - Feb 14, 20

Are they counting every mission and org ever open in that total? Bc the two near me are closed and they are listed on their site as open.


I would offer that they need to exaggerate the size of the organization so as to maximize the size of what will then seem realistic and reasonable settlements, a mere pittance of what holdings such a large religious entity would "obviously" have. From the ashes of their suits and gag settlements will come the collapse of the organization as such, absolving them from recrimination as all the records will then somehow disappear. And I doubt they plan on distributing their ill begotten gain amongst anyone else such as you and I. Much cheaper to forget us. They know they have the majority of the membership conditioned to simply whimper away into oblivion. After all "They are responsible for their own condition". Tragic really I suppose, but look what happens when one tries to awaken all the little sleeping geniuses as to the past, present and future of the cult. Kind of like a harmonic of awakening BT's, if one believed in such things. People will ostracize you because no one wants to know till it's safely behind them, otherwise they'd feel they'd need to rise to such a seemingly overwhelming challenge. OT3 failed to leave one "free from overwhelm", however. Much easier to whimper away into oblivion and just be glad these "hero's and friends" brought it all crashing down, while uttering such propitiative homage such as "I'm sure glad you're bringing it all down and I hope the rest of your life goes well dear friend" out of wishes they will flip a few bucks one's way. Shit in one hand, wish in the other and see what weighs more. These are the scales of justice at work my friend. The execs are leaving the table and cashing in their chips. No, actually they are cashing in our chips. :coolwink:
 
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aegerprimo

Summa Cum Laude
Re: Breaking: Rathbun v Miscavige -- Defendants Filed In Appeals Court - Feb 14, 20

This was an interesting point by TX Lawyer (and answered one my own questions as well)
Comment made at the Underground Bunker today - http://tonyortega.org/2014/02/20/sc...o-the-texas-appeals-court/#comment-1253081949

Tony, you asked:

"The timing of this petition is interesting. Perhaps it was determined by statute or something. But sometime in the next 28 days, Judge Waldrip will be ruling on Scientology’s anti-SLAPP motion, and if he sides with the church this lawsuit is over — making this petition for a writ of mandamus regarding Miscavige’s deposition moot."

Different parties, different procedures. Only CSI filed the anti-SLAPP motion, as it is the defendant taking the position that it's responsible for the First Amendment activities at issue in the case. Miscavige and RTC are taking the position that they had nothing to do with it, so they couldn't claim anti-SLAPP's protections for free speech activities. If the anti-SLAPP motion were successful, only CSI would be dismissed from the case.

And that last point kind of pokes a hole in the mandamus brief's claim that CSI is "fully capable" of satisfying any award of damages in favor of Monique R.
 

secretiveoldfag

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: Breaking: Rathbun v Miscavige -- Defendants Filed In Appeals Court - Feb 14, 20

Are they counting every mission and org ever open in that total? Bc the two near me are closed and they are listed on their site as open.

When we worked through the list of orgs and missions published by CSI, if we had no information we counted it as still open.

But we know that a lot of these very small missions were inactive, so inactive there was no information about them. So the total number of orgs and missions is likely to be much less than 467.

Where were the two near you that are now closed?
 

MissWog

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: Breaking: Rathbun v Miscavige -- Defendants Filed In Appeals Court - Feb 14, 20

When we worked through the list of orgs and missions published by CSI, if we had no information we counted it as still open.

But we know that a lot of these very small missions were inactive, so inactive there was no information about them. So the total number of orgs and missions is likely to be much less than 467.

Where were the two near you that are now closed?
West Palm Beach & Ft. lauderdale..doors closed building space for rent
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Breaking: Rathbun v Miscavige -- Defendants Filed In Appeals Court - Feb 14, 20

Forget about this dream of a "fact finding mission". The court of appeals won´t be doing this - it´s not their business now. They only will rule about the legal aspects of this writ of mandamus and not about the (wrong) "facts" (only) used to present the legal question properly.

As the TX Lawyer wrote on Tony Ortega´s blog:


And Scott Pilotuk outlined more precisely:

And the last thing judges expect to read is "the truth". They (only) want to read what is really needed to judge the case - which is at the moment only a legal question and not a question of the circumstances of the main case. This will probably become Judge Waldrips job in the first place.

I do admit to being a lot over the top about the discovery or verification of the FACTS, however it was done in hyperbolic fashion to point out that if one can state ANYTHING as fact in presenting an argument to a 3 person panel, appointed to be 'trier of fact' in conjunction with the intent of law then the FACT will become obvious that the judicial system is a FARCE and a Fraud which I don't 100% believe it is.

Que Sera. It is certainly an education watching this case and deciding where the biggest 'cult' (s) exist in our society. :)
 
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