Brian Culkin's $350,000 refund and the Garcia Case

[TG1]

Re: $50,000 Extorted from Brian Culkin?

First, IANAL.

Therefore, I don't know how the judge in the Garcia matter will view Brian's declaration or any of the other materials (I've heard) Brian has agreed to make public, like his emails with Mike Rinder (I read that somewhere, but haven't confirmed that's true).

However, here's what I do know. For years, Brian Culkin has been representing himself as a freedom-loving, CoS-opposing Buddhist, Indy-friendly non-Scientologist.

And now, following a settlement of at least $350K (or larger, we don't know), he has permitted / agreed to submitting a legal document and an undefined amount of other documentation IN SUPPORT OF THE FUCKING CHURCH OF SCIENOTLOGY'S LEGAL ARGUMENTS AGAINST LUIS GARCIA IN HIS LITIGATION AGAINST THE CULT.

That's enough to make me want to piss on him.

I appreciate, as others have said elsewhere, that Culkin has harmed himself more than anyone else -- psychologically and spiritually. I think he's put himself in a very, very dark place.

However, I would still like to piss on him.

TG1

 

[Free Being Me]

Re: $50,000 Extorted from Brian Culkin?

WTF? ^^^ Brian Culkin did more than get his money back - he pretended to be ex scientologist's friends while gathering information and giving it to the cult so he could get his money back.

Most of us here in wogworld call that a traitor. He has no integrity - but he claims to be the "enlightened one"! He has no back bone!

Think of the damage he did - allowing the scientology lawyers and David Miscavige to do this - betraying the Garcia's who are fighting for their lives - and all of those who could be harmed because this suit could potentially cripple scientology forever. This is a big deal - this suit is a big deal. I don't know how you see it as being okay - seriously dude!

I would have rather seen Garcia's settle and gagged than to see something like this - someone pretending to be anti-scientology and actually helping scientology in exchange for money to potentially cripple a lawsuit that would help so many people.

Any way you cut it - it is not okay and Brian Culkin has to live with himself. All the yoga poses in the world will not give him peace. All he had to do is to wait until the Garcia's won this suit - he used Marty and Mike and Tony to help himself. SCUM!

So Brian merged into the legal herd, got his and ran? Is that the bottom line?

 

[Purple Rain]

Re: $50,000 Extorted from Brian Culkin?

So Brian merged into the legal herd, got his and ran? Is that the bottom line?

He gave Scientology a declaration in support of a motion to have Luis Garcia's counsel removed. It could be quite a blow to his case, and it is also an important case because it could establish an important precedent about Scientology's accountability for things like fraudulent behaviour, where before they had been successfully hiding behind the religious freedom clause in the constitution. Or something like that.

 

[degraded being]

Re: $50,000 Extorted from Brian Culkin?

So Brian merged into the legal herd, got his and ran? Is that the bottom line?

Merged with OSA got his and ran, is more like it, from my understanding.

 

[tetloj]

Re: $50,000 Extorted from Brian Culkin?

Brian's was one of about 10 or so cases that were being coordinated in order to develop strategy. Brian sat in on meetings and discussion about all of the cases. A declaration by a Sea Ogre says that he has handed over emails about the case.

As part of this joint action he was asked not to take up an offer of arbitration by Co$. The arbitration appears to be a cynical exercise in demonstrating - look how fair we are - we give refunds see! He has gone ahead with personal arbitration.

In pursuing this action (presumably not talking to his lawyers about it - hence everyone's surprise) he has acted outside the group's wishes and one assumes handed over information (he has certainly shown emails).

This much gleaned from two of the declarations.

His declaration ties to the action a lawyer previous involved with Co$ and also Mike Rinder. His declaration may not be as damaging as info he was privy to and at least some of which has certainly gone to Co$ lawyers.

Not nice

 

[Purple Rain]

Re: $50,000 Extorted from Brian Culkin?

Basically at the moment you can spell Brian Culkin's name as M-U-D. It was a very foolish thing to do. Following Scientology's lack of success taking on the internet, you'd think he would have learned that this is just plain pretty damned stupid. I do feel for him as this realisation dawns, but I feel a lot more for the Garcias and for winning a case that will set such an important precedent.

 

[NoName]

Re: $50,000 Extorted from Brian Culkin?

NoName - are you serious? Brian Culkin could have given Babbitt $2,500 and let Babbitt get his money back - he could have just waited like the rest of us who want our money back!

The Luis Garcia lawsuit is about FRAUD - and Scientology is a fraud. Would you like to see this change? What is up with you defending his traitor actions?

What are my crimes, you ask? Ok, ok that's a bit melodramatic, but I think you totally misunderstood me. I'm not defending his actions at all, but I'm wondering out loud what motivated them. People are making it out to seem that he's been a double agent all along, etc. That is not outside the realm of possibility, but it's also entirely possible that the cult scared him into doing this.

The cult has leverage. Everyone knows this. The cult controls access to family and friends, the cult can hire PI's or have OSA harrass you, the cult can file frivolous lawsuits to destroy you...... All coulda figured into Culkin's mental math, and he wouldn't need to be still drunk on the kool aid to balk and do what he did.

At the end of the day, what he did really sucks, but I'm not convinced that he's been a double agent the whole entire time.

 

[degraded being]

Re: $50,000 Extorted from Brian Culkin?

What are my crimes, you ask? Ok, ok that's a bit melodramatic, but I think you totally misunderstood me. I'm not defending his actions at all, but I'm wondering out loud what motivated them. People are making it out to seem that he's been a double agent all along, etc. That is not outside the realm of possibility, but it's also entirely possible that the cult scared him into doing this.

The cult has leverage. Everyone knows this. The cult controls access to family and friends, the cult can hire PI's or have OSA harrass you, the cult can file frivolous lawsuits to destroy you...... All coulda figured into Culkin's mental math, and he wouldn't need to be still drunk on the kool aid to balk and do what he did.

At the end of the day, what he did really sucks, but I'm not convinced that he's been a double agent the whole entire time.

He might be a person who is easily swayed. (This statement is being entered into the Guiness World Records for the understatement of all time.)

 

[Idle Morgue]

Re: $50,000 Extorted from Brian Culkin?

What are my crimes, you ask? Ok, ok that's a bit melodramatic, but I think you totally misunderstood me. I'm not defending his actions at all, but I'm wondering out loud what motivated them. People are making it out to seem that he's been a double agent all along, etc. That is not outside the realm of possibility, but it's also entirely possible that the cult scared him into doing this.

The cult has leverage. Everyone knows this. The cult controls access to family and friends, the cult can hire PI's or have OSA harrass you, the cult can file frivolous lawsuits to destroy you...... All coulda figured into Culkin's mental math, and he wouldn't need to be still drunk on the kool aid to balk and do what he did.

At the end of the day, what he did really sucks, but I'm not convinced that he's been a double agent the whole entire time.

NoName - I never asked you "what are your crimes" (perhaps a flashback from the past - . Just a little of the clam filter that needs to go - I don't use that shit on anyone - my filter is gone).

Thank you for agreeing that what Brian Culkin did really sucked - because it did. He is a traitor of the worst kind. SCUM BAG!

 

[NoName]

Re: $50,000 Extorted from Brian Culkin?

NoName - I never asked you "what are your crimes" (perhaps a flashback from the past - . Just a little of the clam filter that needs to go - I don't use that shit on anyone - my filter is gone).

Thank you for agreeing that what Brian Culkin did really sucked - because it did. He is a traitor of the worst kind. SCUM BAG!

That "what are your crimes" bit was meant to be tongue in cheek.

I have a huge problem with what Culkin did. But I also have a problem with assigning motives for it or saying he was a double agent all along. I haven't seen much in the way of evidence that he's been a double agent all along. I fully acknowledge that it is possible given the nature of Scientology ethics. But I also think he's gone to such a spiritually dark place by what he did that we should not make it harder for ourselves to eventually forgive him if he asks for it. Assuming the worst and assigning the worst possible motive will just make it harder on all of us if he decides eventually to put it right.

 

[This is NOT OK !!!!]

Re: $50,000 Extorted from Brian Culkin?

Why so bitter at Brian?

I believe the Garcia case will move forward on its own merits, regardless of anything Brian told OSA.

What could he have told OSA that would make any difference to Garcia?

Some shared e-mails from Rinder acting as a client relations officer For the lawyers? There's not going to be much in those.

Tony's story was unclear whether Brian had actually signed up with Babbitt or not or what that even means anyway.

If Babbitt is mad that something important was revealed in these e-mails, then he isn't the Ted, "I've sued the biggest corporations in the world and I'm not scared of Scientology" Babbitt that I think he is!

 

[Dilettante]

Re: $50,000 Extorted from Brian Culkin?

Cos legal scum is brilliant. Any pay-outs come with caviats, meaning certain villification by others seeking similar 'refunds'. A rat is a rat, I dunno all the facts in this case or others but I have seen enough to compile a long list of outnows with any sort of sttlement with few friends. If not settled they are legally harranged into silence, usually both.

You see it too, right? :confused2:

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Re: $50,000 Extorted from Brian Culkin?

In the end, Brian was / is a tool, and like a good tool, took back his money in exchange for his declarations. That was all it was about. Reminds me of Ripley in Alien resurrection = "who do I have to fuck to get out of here" - pick the def. of Fuck that applies.
Mimsey

 

[Sindy]

Re: $50,000 Extorted from Brian Culkin?

Why so bitter at Brian?

I believe the Garcia case will move forward on its own merits, regardless of anything Brian told OSA.

What could he have told OSA that would make any difference to Garcia?

Some shared e-mails from Rinder acting as a client relations officer For the lawyers? There's not going to be much in those.

Tony's story was unclear whether Brian had actually signed up with Babbitt or not or what that even means anyway.

If Babbitt is mad that something important was revealed in these e-mails, then he isn't the Ted, "I've sued the biggest corporations in the world and I'm not scared of Scientology" Babbitt that I think he is!

I hear ya.

It is rough to read a declaration exposing intimate communications between trusted correspondents. Even if the declaration is barely harmful, if it all, it just stinks.

Having said that, as despicable as it may seem, the mob pile-ons are always uncomfortable to behold. They are inevitable and not even a true, thought out, concerted effort. They just happen by virtue of the way that the Internet/Blogs/Message Boards work in real time. It's like an instantaneous stoning.

Here's an example, of many, of the kind of comment that I find so offensive. I am not going to even attribute it to anyone because it doesn't matter who wrote it. It could have been any number of the people on the blog yesterday (including me). It's not reasoned thinking. It's almost pure vitriol that, in my opinion, gets stirred up simply by concentrating on this subject sooooooo intently day in and day out. It's not healthy.

..i have zero sympathy for this Brian guy who was stupid enough to get bilked out of $350k ( what the fuck yoga teacher has that $$ ? i think he said he was in finance before ..thus our nightmare on wall street ) ...and i think the Garcia's are con artists and should be felons. They were the types who got types like Brian on the hook in the first place . It would be nice if some of the most ethical people on the planet ..who get refunds like Brian ..be nice if they would start a fund for the kids like you . It could help out with places to stay , community college courses , job training. That $350k could actually do some good. But one thing ..never forget ..scientologists , indies and freezoners ...are still perpetuating the con . They have been conned , they are conning themselves , and are doing their best to con others. Brian will pull out the " i'm the victim card" and will con others with his own little brand of "knowingness " and "author of his true self through yoga" bullshit . And make a few more videos i'm sure . At times like these..i rely on irony , humor , alcohol , and sex.

I think the whole thing stinks but frankly, I am much more annoyed by Debbie and Wayne. Brian had a lot of financial skin in the game but not much loyalty one way or the other. He was involved for a very short time and never actually became a big part of the community of either Scientologists or ex-Scientologists. I don't give the guy a pass but I do know that the C of S is quite adept at turning even the most benign communication into something very seedy looking.

To me, the most damning is the fact that Brian (like Debbie and Wayne) will now not speak. That SUCKS. There are always two sides to a story. When one is no longer capable of telling one's side, the other side trumps. That's just the way it goes. Even simply putting one's little toe in the devil's swimming pool, one loses. It's best to stay far, far away. To me, no amount of money is worth being forever connected to the C of S even if only in one's mind.

 

[Dilettante]

Re: $50,000 Extorted from Brian Culkin?

Brian squealed the legal strategy that Garcias attys were using and he got a check? And the motion is to toss the case based on Bob Johnson's involvement? Am I getting this? Can all the plaintiff's then go after Brian for negotiating outside of their legal case?

This just got really interesting. Can someone advise me on how to access the comments section of the underground bunker? Thanks so much.
Dil

 

[This is NOT OK !!!!]

Re: $50,000 Extorted from Brian Culkin?

Brian squealed the legal strategy that Garcias attys were using and he got a check? And the motion is to toss the case based on Bob Johnson's involvement? Am I getting this? Can all the plaintiff's then go after Brian for negotiating outside of their legal case?

This just got really interesting. Can someone advise me on how to access the comments section of the underground bunker? Thanks so much.
Dil

None of these things happened.

It becomes more clear if you read Tony's article and all the attachments.

There are some murky areas that Tony hopefully will clear up soon and the plaintiffs will respond in court to CofS and that will add to our understanding.

 

[Purple Rain]

Re: $50,000 Extorted from Brian Culkin?

Why so bitter at Brian?

I believe the Garcia case will move forward on its own merits, regardless of anything Brian told OSA.

What could he have told OSA that would make any difference to Garcia?

Some shared e-mails from Rinder acting as a client relations officer For the lawyers? There's not going to be much in those.

Tony's story was unclear whether Brian had actually signed up with Babbitt or not or what that even means anyway.

If Babbitt is mad that something important was revealed in these e-mails, then he isn't the Ted, "I've sued the biggest corporations in the world and I'm not scared of Scientology" Babbitt that I think he is!

OSA are using Brian's declaration to try and get rid of the Garcias' legal counsel. I don't know what you don't understand about that.

 

[TG1]

Re: $50,000 Extorted from Brian Culkin?

Does anyone here know (for sure) whether Brian had access to his own legal counsel during his recent discussions and deliberations with the Church of Scientology, to advise him of his rights and represent his interests?

Or did he walk into those negotiations with no lawyer?

TG1

 

[Gib]

Re: $50,000 Extorted from Brian Culkin?

Does anyone here know (for sure) whether Brian had access to his own legal counsel during his recent discussions and deliberations with the Church of Scientology, to advise him of his rights and represent his interests?

Or did he walk into those negotiations with no lawyer?

TG1

looks he didn't

and he was "hard sold"

buy it now

 

[Panda Termint]

Re: $50,000 Extorted from Brian Culkin?

Does anyone here know (for sure) whether Brian had access to his own legal counsel during his recent discussions and deliberations with the Church of Scientology, to advise him of his rights and represent his interests?

Or did he walk into those negotiations with no lawyer?

TG1

I'm betting he went into "Arbitration" empty-handed.

The stuff in his Declaration is obviously information the CofS already knew (apart from the private correspondence).

It wouldn't be too hard to sit a guy like Brian down and ask pointed questions until they got him to say exactly what they wanted him to say. Then those statements are cobbled together into a Declaration and Brian is asked to sign off on it. Everything in the Dec is something he said in answer to direct questioning so he signs, he just didn't spot the strategy behind the questioning.

I'm also betting he's signed a gagging NDA about what took place during the "Arbitration".