Bribery to get onto the OT levels.

cantsay

Patron Meritorious
I remember when I was in, hearing about the elegibility criteria for the OT levels. I thought it wasnt too hard to get, you just had to prove you were a good person or something....Since nosing about on thisw board, Ive seen a few emails and so on written by officials in the Church bribing people into doing call-in or donating to Ideal Orgs, so they can get commendations for their OT level elegibility.

When did it start changing from "get yourself up the Bridge and to OT", to "we only allow people who directly work at expanding the Church to be OT"?

What exactly do you have to do these days to get onto the OT levels? It defininitely seems that since the start of the "Ideal Orgs" scam that the level of bribery towards OTs has increased. Now you have to be a certain IAS level to get onto certain OT levels or something????

As a auditor (previously), one big glaring outpoint seems to be that if youve made it as far as the OT levels, you obviously GET CASE GAIN, therefore you arent an SP. An SP, by definition, doesnt get any case gain. So to me, it doenst make a whole lot of sense now.
 

Iknowtoomuch

Gold Meritorious Patron
They don't have much choice. People don't like not eating when on staff.
Several Scientologists in my area donate their time to the church. Golly, why don't they just join staff!? :whistling:

It's the only way to get more work done around the orgs since people (even public Scientologists) are smart enough to not join staff.
 

Human Again

Silver Meritorious Patron
I remember when I was in, hearing about the elegibility criteria for the OT levels. I thought it wasnt too hard to get, you just had to prove you were a good person or something....Since nosing about on thisw board, Ive seen a few emails and so on written by officials in the Church bribing people into doing call-in or donating to Ideal Orgs, so they can get commendations for their OT level elegibility.

When did it start changing from "get yourself up the Bridge and to OT", to "we only allow people who directly work at expanding the Church to be OT"?

What exactly do you have to do these days to get onto the OT levels? It defininitely seems that since the start of the "Ideal Orgs" scam that the level of bribery towards OTs has increased. Now you have to be a certain IAS level to get onto certain OT levels or something????

As a auditor (previously), one big glaring outpoint seems to be that if youve made it as far as the OT levels, you obviously GET CASE GAIN, therefore you arent an SP. An SP, by definition, doesnt get any case gain. So to me, it doenst make a whole lot of sense now.


I have no idea can'tsay,

The orgs really are completely confused on their purposes and really it is no wonder when they can't produce what they promise to begin with.

The big glaring outpoint to me is the paradox of thinking they have something everyone needs and then withholding it from all their own crew and making it harder andharder for the public to access it too. I mean, even though I don't think it works at all, if it did, it's what, a CS checking each session and a supervisor making sure you study right at the beginning? So two wages and some infrastructure. I mean what the hell are they charging for????

The whole internal illogic "does me 'ead in" as an old friend was wont to say.

They have the technology for success yet they are failing. They know PTS /SP tech yet they are afraid of "SPs" , They have the technology to free individuals and are, person by person the most suppressed group of individuals you have in our culture, not even being able to think critically.

They have "admin tech" and all those non-producers, they have ethics tech and so few "upstat, appreciated staff". It's laughable, sad and so freaking ridiculous.
 
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You're asking about a shift in the way that "pre-OT's"
and "OT's" are seen by the cult dictators.

I noticed something recently very closely related. It's about the way "OT's" are seen not in relation to eligibility but in relation to what is expected after they complete "OT levels" so I am wondering:

Is the cult now far more dictatorial in the demands on "OT's". A strongly enforced, demanding attitude about "get the fuck out there and DO something" "you are an OT, YOU have to be out busting your gut saving the planet on the third dynamic"

Does anyone know if there is now a more dictatorial tone there?
It is related to the OP - which suggests a stronger controlling type of behaviour to people wanting to prove eligibility.
 

Good twin

Floater
You're asking about a shift in the way that "pre-OT's"
and "OT's" are seen by the cult dictators.

I noticed something recently very closely related. It's about the way "OT's" are seen not in relation to eligibility but in relation to what is expected after they complete "OT levels" so I am wondering:

Is the cult now far more dictatorial in the demands on "OT's". A strongly enforced, demanding attitude about "get the fuck out there and DO something" "you are an OT, YOU have to be out busting your gut saving the planet on the third dynamic"

Does anyone know if there is now a more dictatorial tone there?
It is related to the OP - which suggests a stronger controlling type of behaviour to people wanting to prove eligibility.

Yes. Definitely. Mandatory OT committee membership. Mandatory meetings. Mandatory participation. Mandatory donations.

I wish I saved the message on my answering machine when an OT 8 called to invite me to an OT committee meeting. She sounded just desperate and said "This is a mandatory meeting. You really have to come. You don't have a choice." My husband said "Oh, I have a choice" and deleted the message.

Too bad she doesn't see that she has a choice. The OTs I have some limited contact with are most definitely controlled by management beyond belief. :yes:
 

ULRC/S

Patron with Honors
>>The OTs I have some limited contact with are most definitely controlled by management beyond belief<<

Some OTs they are...

Regards, Allen
 
When I was in, (early 80s) I sometimes heard a bit of"responsibility button pushing".

As a non-Ot I used to always think "well, they will do if if they want to and if they don't they won't because they'll have an extremely high level of self-determinism"

Remember "self determinism"? Don't hear that being talked about muchthese days. It was something that appealed to me in the "bait'

Poor little )OT 7's and 8's :bigcry: not only no OT power but not even self determinism.:bigcry: :bigcry: :bigcry:
 

scooter

Gold Meritorious Patron
The big change in viewpoint on this came in the late 90s.

It was then that the dilletantes in the field were actively targetted by DM as not doing enough to help and staff and crew were urged to get them more active.

After all, the staff and the SO were keeping the Bridge open and suffering poor living conditions while these rich public were just loafing up the Bridge.

That's why couch-jumper was promoted so heavily - he was "out there" in everybody's face about the evils of psychs and the power of Source.

If you were attending events around that time, you'll notice the change in Lil Nap's "fireside chat" at the end - he began to urge every public to sacrifice just like the SO and staff were.

OT elig.s at the time began to include "contribution level" as a pre-requisite.
 

EP - Ethics Particle

Gold Meritorious Patron
Personal knowledge...

You're asking about a shift in the way that "pre-OT's"
and "OT's" are seen by the cult dictators.

I noticed something recently very closely related. It's about the way "OT's" are seen not in relation to eligibility but in relation to what is expected after they complete "OT levels" so I am wondering:

Is the cult now far more dictatorial in the demands on "OT's". A strongly enforced, demanding attitude about "get the fuck out there and DO something" "you are an OT, YOU have to be out busting your gut saving the planet on the third dynamic"

Does anyone know if there is now a more dictatorial tone there?
It is related to the OP - which suggests a stronger controlling type of behaviour to people wanting to prove eligibility.

I personally know a married couple, both professionals, who got "into" scio as affluent adults and had the resources to both go virtually full-time, "up the bridge" - almost all of it done at Flag. Nice folks too, btw.

I was personally told by an OT8 friend that the "OT Committee" contacted these two, who were working and enjoying life, that, as OT8s, they were expected and required to do far, far more to advance "command attention"; and that after this was thoroughly explained to them that they said "OK, fine" and started to do stress table shit, try to sell books and hand out promo on the weekends.

Obviouslly, not bein' "OT", I was hardly qualified for such high-level activity. :whistling: (plus I just HATED that kind of shit!):grouch:

This was around '03 or '04.

And this is TRUE! :duh:
 

Wisened One

Crusader
I personally know a married couple, both professionals, who got "into" scio as affluent adults and had the resources to both go virtually full-time, "up the bridge" - almost all of it done at Flag. Nice folks too, btw.

I was personally told by an OT8 friend that the "OT Committee" contacted these two, who were working and enjoying life, that, as OT8s, they were expected and required to do far, far more to advance "command attention"; and that after this was thoroughly explained to them that they said "OK, fine" and started to do stress table shit, try to sell books and hand out promo on the weekends.

Obviouslly, not bein' "OT", I was hardly qualified for such high-level activity. :whistling: (plus I just HATED that kind of shit!):grouch:


This was around '03 or '04.

And this is TRUE! :duh:

Yep, if you weren't active as a successful FSM then you weren't *really* a proud scn, no matter how high up the bridge you were! :eyeroll:
 

cantsay

Patron Meritorious
So if it is only a recent thing to have your "contribution level" as part of getting onto the next OT level, what was it before that? What hoops did you need to jump through before?
 

HappyGirl

Gold Meritorious Patron
So if it is only a recent thing to have your "contribution level" as part of getting onto the next OT level, what was it before that? What hoops did you need to jump through before?
When I was on OT7 in late 90s they started a heavy push to get me to contribute more time. It startled me, as they had never done that before. I always said, no, I don't want to volunteer more of my time than what I'm already doing. Actually, I didn't always say no. Sometimes I just shined them on with, "sure, ok, I'll do more." I was never stopped from continuing on OT7.

You're asking about a shift in the way that "pre-OT's" and "OT's" are seen by the cult dictators.

I noticed something recently very closely related. It's about the way "OT's" are seen not in relation to eligibility but in relation to what is expected after they complete "OT levels" so I am wondering:

Is the cult now far more dictatorial in the demands on "OT's". A strongly enforced, demanding attitude about "get the fuck out there and DO something" "you are an OT, YOU have to be out busting your gut saving the planet on the third dynamic"

Does anyone know if there is now a more dictatorial tone there?
It is related to the OP - which suggests a stronger controlling type of behaviour to people wanting to prove eligibility.
My husband's friends disconnected from him after a 30+ year friendship when they heard I asked for my money back, but the last I saw them, the guy (on OT7) had a huge pile of boxes behind their couch. Turns out that while he was at Flag on his refresher they conned him into buying 3 sets of basics (apparently, including the lectures) to sell by himself. Jeez, I felt sorry for him!! His wife (finished OT8 not long ago) started volunteering at the local mission a few years ago. They hadn't done any of that before a few years ago. I'm sure the pressure is tremendous on OTs now. I have other friends that are not that high on the bridge yet that are still really enjoying life. I hope they never do the OT levels, or any joy in life will be over.
 

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
lies

I'm still continually amazed when I hear the 'other side' of what was going on, vs. the bs lines they fed us. We were told that the new reqs to have all the OTs contribute was to protect the OTs themselves. You see, the higher you go up the Bridge, the higher the awareness, and the smaller the overt that could cave one in. At these amazing states, something as simple as not handling someone when they make a nasty crack about the cult would really cause problems for the being, because they knew better. Receiving the ultimate gift of OT and all that power without contributing back would just be soooo much of an ethical burden. Any OTs we might have heard of falling off the Bridge, leaving, getting sick, etc. was all due to this factor. NOW, by beefing up the eligibility, the OTs would be in exchange for this priceless gift and be the stable powerhouses that Ron intended them to be. :duh:
 

Ralph Hilton

Patron Meritorious
So if it is only a recent thing to have your "contribution level" as part of getting onto the next OT level, what was it before that? What hoops did you need to jump through before?
I started the OT levels in 1974. There were no eligibility checks etc. As soon as you completed one level then you got an invitation to the next one.
 

Hoodwinked

Patron with Honors
So if it is only a recent thing to have your "contribution level" as part of getting onto the next OT level, what was it before that? What hoops did you need to jump through before?

When I got onto the OT levels in the 1980's I was required to do a write-up of all my contributions since I had been a member of the CO$. I had done some volunteer work for CCHR and donated a few hundred dollars to some CO$ causes. I submitted my write-up and received my invite to OT I. No biggie. The last time I went to Flag in the late 1990's I was informed that I was expected to audit 4-6 sessions a day, join my local OT Committee AND either join staff or become a volunteer at one of the church-related fronts (CCHR, ABLE, etc.). This was in addition to somehow financially supporting myself. I nodded my head. I went home. I never audited again. I never joined the OT Committee and I never went on staff. My attitude was that if I wanted to live the life of a Sea Org member, I would join the Sea Org. Pass.
 

FoTi

Crusader
I'm still continually amazed when I hear the 'other side' of what was going on, vs. the bs lines they fed us. We were told that the new reqs to have all the OTs contribute was to protect the OTs themselves. You see, the higher you go up the Bridge, the higher the awareness, and the smaller the overt that could cave one in. At these amazing states, something as simple as not handling someone when they make a nasty crack about the cult would really cause problems for the being, because they knew better. Receiving the ultimate gift of OT and all that power without contributing back would just be soooo much of an ethical burden. Any OTs we might have heard of falling off the Bridge, leaving, getting sick, etc. was all due to this factor. NOW, by beefing up the eligibility, the OTs would be in exchange for this priceless gift and be the stable powerhouses that Ron intended them to be. :duh:

Just more lies used to control people. :grouch: :angry:
 

sandygirl

Silver Meritorious Patron
Quote from Hoodwinked:
The last time I went to Flag in the late 1990's I was informed that I was expected to audit 4-6 sessions a day, join my local OT Committee AND either join staff or become a volunteer at one of the church-related fronts (CCHR, ABLE, etc.). This was in addition to somehow financially supporting myself. I nodded my head. I went home. I never audited again. I never joined the OT Committee and I never went on staff. My attitude was that if I wanted to live the life of a Sea Org member, I would join the Sea Org. Pass.

Believe me, it only got worse from there!! First there was the "ideal org" nightmare. Students and public were regged for staff and $$$$$ like there was no tommorrow. Also, the demands for free construction work and all of the hooha for the "grand opening".

Some tricks the "handpicked" SO missionaires used were:
*waiting in your driveway until you returned home and refusing to leave without a substansal "contribution".

* events with the doors blocked and guarded until some ridiculous amount of $$$$ was raised

*relentless phone calling and demands for "standard" schedules no matter that you had a family, job, etc

and you PAID through the ass for those courses and "events" just to be treated like crap!!!!
 

Hoodwinked

Patron with Honors
OMG Sandygirl, I'm so thankful I got out when I did. I thought what was being asked of us 10 years ago was bad. I can't believe how much worse it got. It gives me the feeling that because DM got away with starving SO members and working them half to death, he then decided that he could get away with demanding the same crap from the public Scilons. It just makes me cringe. I would have lasted about 2 days (if even that).

Quote from Hoodwinked:


Believe me, it only got worse from there!! First there was the "ideal org" nightmare. Students and public were regged for staff and $$$$$ like there was no tommorrow. Also, the demands for free construction work and all of the hooha for the "grand opening".

Some tricks the "handpicked" SO missionaires used were:
*waiting in your driveway until you returned home and refusing to leave without a substansal "contribution".

* events with the doors blocked and guarded until some ridiculous amount of $$$$ was raised

*relentless phone calling and demands for "standard" schedules no matter that you had a family, job, etc

and you PAID through the ass for those courses and "events" just to be treated like crap!!!!
 

uncle sam

Silver Meritorious Patron
give me more...

I love what all the posters are saying about the joys of OTness!
If you could hear me -the only sound would be of great mirth and bemusement---I am OT7 [which that and a buck ain't worth much] and the idea that OTs can do more because they have something extra in their tank is so fucking funny -I can barely type-and then to actually realize that there are a fair number of folks who believe "this"-has made by body fall to the floor in hysterics [finally got up and back into the chair]. And to top it off- these devotees actually paid gobs of money to do this is absolutely ridiculous. I live in America so I know about =let people believe what they want=religious freedom. But-ya gotta admit-this Otness is one funny fucking_{fill in the blank}__________________!
 
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