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BURNING DOWN HELL

Discussion in 'Scientology Technology' started by mockingbird, Feb 13, 2015.

  1. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    In Mexico they make tacos with dog meat.


     
  2. sallydannce

    sallydannce Gold Meritorious Patron

    Oh it does! It totally sounds like a chicken, chooking.

    I have some experience in these matters - looking after chooks- and the sound they make is "chook, chook, chook". :)
     
  3. Free Being Me

    Free Being Me Crusader

    [​IMG]
    See what happens when you drink too much coffee?
     
  4. sallydannce

    sallydannce Gold Meritorious Patron

    It sort of feels like a "Tom Cruise" moment - have sofa will leap up and down on it. :biggrin:
     
  5. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    It was a defining moment in his life and career.

    Did he ever get kha Khan status for bringing Anonymous down on the cult? :omg:


     
  6. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    First of all, Blanky, I don't mind at all. And I appreciate you commenting on this.

    I was that someone who raised the issue of MB providing some evidence of his statement but not:
    But I never stated mockingbird or anyone else should publicly post their questions publicly if they were by private message. I only asked where he was receiving these questions etc. I was wondering if he was referring to them being made on Facebook or some other social platform. Certainly private is private and you don't need to explain why you PM'd instead of posted. It's just good to know that there was someone actually doing what mockingbird claimed.

    The fact is that I rarely saw any of the 'many' questions, requests for more or posts encouraging mockingbird, and because MB stated numerous times that he was posting because of these 'many' that which I had rarely seen, I felt it appropriate to ask to ask. It matters when someone makes a general claim without evidence. It's easy to sway people with generalized statements but to convince it's good to see some evidence to back it up. I appreciate knowing you have been asking questions, albeit privately. It adds credence to what mockingbird has stated. It makes it more real. Thanks.

    I also think it's unfair to assume we know what another is thinking. But I think it's unfair to post things on a regular basis as if the readers are students in a classroom who need to be instructed. We agree that mockingbird can be pedantic in his posting style but that's really not the right word to describe the whole of it. IMHO, mockingbird's post are, in the main, impersonal and presumptive. Being pedantic presumes the audience of readers are ignorant and need to learn. And that is why there have been comments stating that mockingbird is telling us what to think. Marty Rathbun did a similar thing when he first started his blog. Kept it up for some time, actually. It was only later, when he realized that there were other things to consider, and that he did not know best as he had believed, did he begin a humble journey of reconsidering his thoughts and beliefs in relation to Scientology. But it was the communication from a high horse stool that rubbed people the wrong way. His 'my way or the highway' mentality was more obvious but mockingbird, like Marty once was, is not here to discuss and debate his findings but to inform and instruct. There is a difference in conversing with others and being talked at to to as an audience of some sort. In many of mockingbird's threads, it comes across as if I am being talked at. I don't think I am alone in this.

    And this brings me to the other concern you mentioned about why some people have written in this thread about mockingbird rather than to him. I have observed an avoidance on his part of comments that do not agree with his ideas, or comments that invite debate on his posts. His being told ( even by the moderator) to summarize and edit his posts because they are (traditionally) too long to read and often in need of editing for readability purposes is almost legendary. It seemed like mockingbird was ignoring these, and those comments on advice to him. Like they did not fit into the teacher/student mold of his presentation. I can only go by what I know and have observed, having also posted here about him in 3rd person in some posts here, besides those I addressed to him. It seemed that mockingbird was not in conversation with commenters who did not agree with what he posted. I can't speak for others but as for me, but I think it went to 3rd person because responses from MB had not been occurring, there was little to no conversation between he and others for the most part. That was how it has been since he began posting. The impersonal nature of the posts then went to the few responses he gave where in he quoted some comments made without identifying who made the comments.

    Keep in mind that his posts are not about his experiences in unpeeling of the onion of his experiences. They are more about his desire to provide an explanation of what he feels is the core of what Hubbard was doing to members, and why he is so evil because of that. The comments on there being lots murders, I would take with a grain of salt until evidence is produced. Yes, some people have died but I have yet to see anything proving Hubbard or DM murdered them or anyone else.

    I am glad that mockingbird's threads and posts are of help to you in better understanding your situation with Mr/Mrs Blanky. But as Free Being Me stated, hypnosis is one of many things to know in order to understand and help the spouse. Whether hypnosis, indoctrination, persuasion or agreement cause the cognitive dissonance that scientologists suffer from is not so important as the fact is that it is the cognitive dissonance that one deals with when trying to reach the person to effect a change. There is no one cookie cutter way of fixing the problem because we are dealing with individuals who are in agreement that Hubbard is all knowing and cannot be questioned because he told us this is so ( ref: HCO PL Keeping Scientology Working, and study tech reference ). You might well get better results with the spouse just by asking if he/she believes whether only Hubbard knew the truth about life, or could there be other ideas worth inspecting.

    I hope this answers some of your concerns, from my end. I appreciate your input on all this. I am glad you are being helped by mockingbird's writings and private communications.
     
  7. eldritch cuckoo

    eldritch cuckoo brainslugged reptilian

    What have I missed? :confused2:
    I thought much or all of your impression of a "honey trap" being set up a while ago was a misunderstanding about how and that spammers and cheaters, "marriage impostors" (in lack of a better term), try to hook up people on facebook?
    Not? :unsure:
    I have to admit, my irony detectors are not very sensitive...

    Others have already commented on this better than I could. I'm just saying, a long time before finding ESMB, watching a movie on Scientology, unplanned, on the very wrong day (with other shit happening), has thrown me into a full-blown nervous breakdown...
    Although I was afraid of the mere picture of Scientology ruling the world and not of OSA bothering with me, I can understand the feelings involved... and it is called anxiety disorder for a reason...
    Perhaps a short break from researching Scientology? :unsure:
     
  8. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    How do you wake someone up from Scientology? Here is an excellent tool, now updated with narration by one of the best video critics we have. This is especially for those trying to understand and better help a scientologist in their life.

    This updated audio presentation of Heidi Macavoy's Prezi presentations on Walking Up From Scientology are narrated by Chris Shelton, who also writes about the subject and includes the video presentation of Part 1 at the below link on his site. Because the video can only be embedded and we can't embed them here, you can see it at Chris's blog link or at Heidi's Prezi Link. I suggest you check it out on Chris' blog, read what he has to say on the subject and then watch the terrific presentation at the end of it. You can follow by transcript if you like, and visit Heidi's Prezi for parts 2 & 3. See links below

    Waking Up from Scientology
    by Chris Shelton
    http://mncriticalthinking.com/2014/12/01/waking-up-from-scientology/#more-515

    You can listen to all 3 parts at this link : Waking Up From Scientology Parts 1-3

    You can read the transcript of the presentation here as well.
    Transcript of Waking Up From Scientology (Part 1)
     
  9. mockingbird

    mockingbird Silver Meritorious Patron

    Oh I almost forgot :
    me from earlier and Anonmary's response

    You are trying to position me as arrogant and repeatedly attacking my credibility as you earlier said something on credence . You have a lot of opinions on how I should think , what I write , that I need to see how unimportant I really am , how to get enlightened . Hmm. How about you stick with talking to the important people - I never was comfortable looking down on people anyway . You have been out right judgmental and condescending to me for long enough with veiled insults - always because you are "so concerned " Do me a favor save your concern for someone else : I cannot take anymore .



    BTW Blanky was the only person that got that was a joke - unless you are OSA in which case it is deadly serious .:coolwink:
     
  10. mockingbird

    mockingbird Silver Meritorious Patron

    Justsheila

    :run:

    I want to burn it down asap , so hurry back !:coolwink:
     
  11. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    I was not attacking you or your credibility. You have posted several alarming and generalized comments that require clarification if you want people to appreciate what you are saying and not worry about where you are headed. You have been outright judgmental in your assumptions about me but I know where that's coming from and waste no time explaining myself to a brick wall. My comments stand on their own merits.

    Adios
     
  12. FlunkYou

    FlunkYou Patron with Honors

    111.jpg
     
  13. Claire Swazey

    Claire Swazey Spokeshole, fence sitter

    Well MB, you're not always fair to others.
     
  14. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Mockingbird, you are an intelligent, decent, caring person. You are certainly important in the fight against the cult.

    Sometimes just about all of us are misunderstood, or unintentionally offend others. Sometimes we just have a bad day or get snippy. Sometimes we just care too much, too,.

    Writing doesn't always give a complete picture of a person's personality. Sometimes we come across differently than we intend.

    I've been on both ends of this countless times - the one offending others and the one offended.

    It happens. We are human.

    Sure, you should try to take an objective look at your writing style and tweak whatever you feel needs tweaking. Beyond that, don't take any of this too personally. Find your own way.

    Most of all, be happy. Scientology took away so much from us already, don't let it, or the fight against it, steal your happiness for even one more day now that you are free.

    Love to ya. You're doing just FINE. :bighug:
     
  15. prosecco

    prosecco Patron Meritorious

    Was really really surprised to read that you've only been out a year or so.

    While I know it's difficult to compare, when I left, I didn't want to look at anything remotely related to scientology for ages, so the fact that you've done so much research is incredible in such a relatively short span of time.

    Obviously people are different, and suppose it depends on your personality. I'm really shy, so often my way of coping is reading loads and thinking about it all. Am fairly quiet and one of my mantras of the Desiderata is, 'avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are a vexation to the spirit...'

    You seem to want to digest lots of information which is amazing.

    But I agree with some of the other posters. What about YOU? It would be brilliant to find out more about your story.
     
  16. Intentionally Blank

    Intentionally Blank Scientology Widow

    What she said :)
     
  17. Free Being Me

    Free Being Me Crusader

    I agree. Well said. :)
     
  18. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    That's what the conflict boils down to IMO.
     
  19. mockingbird

    mockingbird Silver Meritorious Patron

    Hmm , lots to chew on...

    I will do something that is becoming easier for me now( even if communicating clearly on it is not): analyzing a piece of tech - in theory .

    From Intentionally Blank :
    I remembered answering this in another thread somewhere in these 600 posts I threw up .The conflicting commands idea . I forgot that the answer to this is important for several reasons and so found a very simple article online with the theory on this very concisely explained . I have many more ideas on this theory as it applies to Scientology but I will not get into all of that right now . Now ideally the commands are of equal strength and from equally trusted and loved sources or those factors may act as tiebreakers and not have a process of cognitive dissonance kick in .In other words if a stranger says your spouse is cheating and you completely trust your spouse who convincingly denies it so without other evidence you may just trust your spouse , as an example .

    Here are a couple quotes from the article and I will give the link as well :
    Here is the link for the very brief and clear article this came from Cognitive Dissonance and the Human Mind by Dan Eden :http://www.viewzone.com/cognitivedissonance.html

    Now the Ego is a part of psychoanalysis and that is a whole other mess to sort out but here are the simplest definitions I could find
    Source British Dictionary online

    Look in some simple terms the idea-in some theories on the mind - is that when there are strongly conflicting commands or concepts from equally valid sources and only one can be believed or followed a person will go with the one that preserves the ego or the self identity ( I am over simplifying these terms somewhat from the strictest definitions for brevity ) .

    I actually wrote a post on my blog going into this in greater detail - but please keep in mind all the terms for the mind and its functions that I use are metaphors and not actual physical structures . All these terms are approximations and guesses that have been worked on and really are meant to describe impressions and patterns in human thought .
    From
    The secret of Scientology part 3 : why are Scientologists so stubbornly obstinate ? from Mockingbird's Nest :http://mbnest.blogspot.com/2015/01/the-secret-of-scientology-part-3-why.html
    I include that link for Blanky in particular as it may be applicable to your situation - even though it mixes concepts from many theories to a staggering degree and that is really mixing metaphors when you get down to it . Plainly it is a kind of shortcut to analyzing thought and behavior ;so , take it with a grain of salt and not as solid science that is validated . I can use words from scientific fields but that does mean every concept is sound or truly compatible - do not let the words convince you , look for yourself at the concepts and hypothesis they provide as claims to be proven , partly accepted or outright rejected .

    I hope this adequately answers your question . The post at my blog goes into greater depth on this .
     
  20. mockingbird

    mockingbird Silver Meritorious Patron

    Prosecco
    Hmm , what's to say boy joins a group , boy spends 25 years in that group then discovers it is a total fraud and terrorist mind control cult and leaves and decides to figure out what happened to him and tell the world . You know the classic story live , think you are helping the good guys and then find out you are in fact the villain of the story . Horror ensues . Same old same old . I have an interesting thing that happened but I had no context for for decades until leaving the cult . I would think different stories and situations for fiction and they became progressively more like elements of Hubbard's doctrine but had a resistance to it and I did not see that there was a conflict in my mind between submission to Hubbard and my pre cult identity . It was not something I could face consciously .

    I was a fan of sci fi and comic books and novels for a long time and could think of fictional situations and characters for as long as I can remember to amuse and entertain myself and did for many years before Scientology . This actually is a kind of self generated trance and not really harmful as many do it with no ill effects . It is just imagining and feeling happy about doing it . And knowing it is all fiction .This seemed normal and harmless . I could read about something and make very vivid images and imagine stories with great detail . No problem so far , nothing odd .

    After being indoctrinated in Hubbard's doctrine and twisted ideology for many years an unusual phenomena occurred : I became preoccupied with certain concepts that married elements of Hubbard's ideas and what had appealed to me from my youth . Plainly the old trances became influenced in content and direction by Hubbard's ideas -subconciously as that is where most of Hubbard's ideas go during indoctrination .

    So , I kept making up stories of "superior" races or literal super-humans having the classic conflict they would inevitably arrive at : mankind is flawed and at times violent cruel and even abusive and genocidal and self destructive . Do they deserve eradication to make way for something "better" or loss of freedom for "their own good" or to be stopped as they can be harshly judged "inherently evil " or unworthy of life . I always had the same concepts - parts of Hubbard's pseudo science and descriptions of sci fi type beings with telekinesis , immortality, healing factors , super-intelligence , super-technology , spaceships etc.- standard sci fi stuff in line with Hubbard's promises for the new man( Homo Novis and OT ) . Some details vary - from other worlds or augmented humans or built in labs ( bodies in pawn style) to mystic legends and absurdly powerful godlike beings who alter or rewrite reality and the rules of universes at will . You know like Hubbard's idea of a thetan having their "home universe" they are a literal God in .


    Lots of versions and variations influenced by thousands of works of fiction , ultimately hundreds of different settings and casts of characters . but the story always went the same way : start to make the scene and imagine the characters- a pleasant trance with some slight unease over how to have fine details and what would be consistent and pleasant to think of . Okay , not too bad some anxiety if I felt it was too derivative or unrealistic for this( even though it is just fiction for one ). Then the protagonist is created or empowered and often is part of a far superior race or group that stands as a small minority but powerful enough to equal or far outclass humanity in force .the protagonist side gets in conflict with someone or a group and eventually one way or another observes man's cruelty . In some versions the protagonist is actually an immortal reincarnated being that has forgotten it's true nature and been conquering and killing humans for millennia , possibly even enslaving and raping along the way . Feeling justified by His" superiority ".

    Often the protagonist has the obligation and even duty of destroying humanity in a predestined moment and has either love , compassion or memories of how it feels to have been human - even if it was a pretense or temporary setback - cause doubt , then hesitation, then a lessening of blind hatred and consideration of others having equal validity to live despite any supposed "inferiority" or duty to fulfill . This part of the story always brought on great dissonance - I knew it felt right to have the villain realize he was wrong ( incidentally these stories often have no hero ) . And to then recognize the right to live free and decide their own destiny of others , but it did not fit something imperceptible and so the story never seemed to be able to be right . Often the villain loses all his support and status by sparing humanity and becomes an outcast , shunned completely( via disconnection !) but does it any way - even with no redemption or acceptance by either side possible . I tried changing characters , origins , races abilities , low sci fi , hard sci fi , immense super powers , slight ones , no powers , ultra tech , modern tech . Magic and impossible abilities like time travel , combinations of all of the above .It always went the same way . I became confused and depressed .

    Just imagining a story for yourself should not be so hard - especially when you have been making movies with special effects and huge casts in extremely vivid and lifelike detail successfully for decades. And writing in your mind enough stories to fill thousands of comic books .
    I did not realize the values of my cult and pre-cult identities where in conflict in my subconscious as it is hidden from the conscious mind and so persists and grows . The story serves as a kind of conflict between the ideas of equal rights even when abilities or resources are not equal and the stronger or more aggressive side seeing might or ability making it right to do anything as long as it wins . I did never see it as showing the conflict between Hubbard's demand for ruthlessness(KSW) and the nonrecognition of rights ( his definition of responsibility ) and on the other side tolerance and acceptance , with humility and compassion guiding man ( pre-cult vales) .

    Only through hundreds of hours of exit counseling did it come fully into my conscious mind as the trance was broken then eradicated then dissected bit by bit, thought by thought and reframing the experience with education and learning the concepts and terms in Scientology are all false and their true purpose and effects .

    Now , can we get back to burning down hell ?:coolwink: