But will it be enough to bring down DM and The Church of Scientology?

[5th Invader Force]

Will it be enough?
​

The common denominator that I've seen over the years taken to end David Miscavige's abuse of his power, his squirreling, his reign of terror and the church of scientology's "off trackness" is a PR one.

( Public Relations )

Don't get me wrong, I truly feel the PR approach has had a big impact on the church's standing in the world.

The question is, will it be enough? Or is it going to take something more, is it going to take legal action on top of that?

I think it is.

For all that Mike and Marty, ESMB, OCMB, WWP have done over the years, their approach has basically been a PR approach.

Now, I give credit to Marc Headly for having the balls to take a legal approach against the church but unfortunately, he lost.

The thing about suing the church of Scientology is that you have to make sure to win.

I thought that Debbie Cooke was going to use the legal route successfully but she bailed out before the fight even begun.

No folks, I'm afraid that its going to take more than bad PR from Marty, Mike, ESMB, WWP, OCMB and the Village Voice etc. to bring down the church of Scientology and to bring down the dictator that is running it.

I know that there's alot of you that believe that if we just keep up the bad PR to the "wog" world it will implode some day, I'm sorry, I don't think it will.

I think that we still should still keep telling the world about the abuses at Gold Base but I don't think it's going to unseat DM.

I just don't see bad PR for David Miscavige and the church doing the job.

It's going to take more than just bad public opinion and bad press to bag this tiger.

 

[Dulloldfart]

My personal preference is to read posts in the default font, as it is easier on the eyes. Otherwise, to me, it is like reading a post in ALL CAPS.

Paul

 

[Demented LRH]

The lawsuits won't bring the cult down, but the dwindling membership will.
The membership is in a fast decline due to the factors mentioned in the OP's article.

How do we know that the cult membership is in decline? The FreeZone, whose members are former CoS members, is growing.

I am an anti-Scientologist, not a FreeZoner, so my assessment of the FreeZone growth is not biased.

 

[Smilla]

Uncovering and exposing the truth about the Cult has brought it to it's currently weakened condition. Recruitment all but non-existent, income way down, etc. This has nothing to do with PR - it is simply the propagation of information, and has been very effective.

 

[5th Invader Force]

My personal preference is to read posts in the default font, as it is easier on the eyes. Otherwise, to me, it is like reading a post in ALL CAPS.

Paul

I'm sorry you feel that way Paul. I agree that when someone writes in all CAPS it can be real annoying. My text is clearly not in all caps so I don't see the problem. I was just following Karen's lead, but I feel red is a bit too much for my taste.

 

[5th Invader Force]

The lawsuits won't bring the cult down, but the dwindling membership will.
The membership is in a fast decline due to the factors mentioned in the OP's article.

How do we know that the cult membership is in decline? The FreeZone, whose members are former CoS members, is growing.

I am an anti-Scientologist, not a FreeZoner, so my assessment of the FreeZone growth is not biased.

So you disagree and do feel that PR is going to do the job because of a fatal drop in membership caused by the bad PR?

I don't feel that this is going to be the case.

I do feel that their membership has declined as a result of bad PR but I don't think it's going to be fatal.

The COS will always be getting new members because of the truth contained in LRH's writings, not because of anything the church itself is doing, and by taping into new markets like Asia.

No, I feel it's going to take PR and lawsuits to do the job.

I read on the Internet that the church now has 6 billion in assets which makes me sick.

I don't see how an increase in the FreeZone membership is proof of a decline in church membership. They may not be connected.

The FreeZone may just be getting people from other zones not just from those that have left the church.

 

[Idle Morgue]

I ask the questions: What does Scientology value you the most?

The answer: Their SECRETS! The secrets are the pop and sizzle of "selling" you more and more and more. It creates a mystery and an illusion that there is something to have.

PR is KILLING THEM because no one new will come in and stay.

The SECRETS:

Scientology does not work.

People go broke financially.

People DIE - suicide and cancer probably higher in this group than any other group.

David Miscavige beats the dedicated, hard working staff.

David Miscavige lives a very lavish lifestyle, makes lots of money, has several luxury vehicles and gets to spend member's hard earned money on harrassing lawsuits, private investigators ($10-$12 Million with 2 that followed Pat Broeker for 25 years), entertaining Tom Cruise et al.

The Clear confidential cognition is public. OATEE LEVELS are all public. They are crazy and kooky cognitions that no one will pay $500,000 to "have". So no one will come in.

Now, the Co$ is very weak - it is time to sue the shit out of them and ask for money back.

The media is not afraid of them, attorney's are not afraid of them, there is no one afraid of them! Thank you annoymous!

It all adds to the demise of Scientology!

 

[Smilla]

So you disagree and do feel that PR is going to do the job because of a fatal drop in membership caused by the bad PR?

I don't feel that this is going to be the case.

I do feel that their membership has declined as a result of bad PR but I don't think it's going to be fatal.

The COS will always be getting new members because of the truth contained in LRH's writings, not because of anything the church itself is doing, and by taping into new markets like Asia.

No, I feel it's going to take PR and lawsuits to do the job.

I read on the Internet that the church now has 6 billion in assets which makes me sick.

I don't see how an increase in the FreeZone membership is proof of a decline in church membership. They may not be connected.

The FreeZone may just be getting people from other zones not just from those that have left the church.

You need to read more.

 

[5th Invader Force]

You need to read more.

Read more of what?

I recommend that you read a book called: "The Art of War".

 

[5th Invader Force]

What does Scientology value you the most?

Since Scientology is a body of data, how can it value anything?

Did you mean, "What does the Church of Scientology value the most"?

Now, that's a good question.

I would say:

1. It's legal hold on L. Ron Hubbard's copyrights.

2. It's tax exempt status.

3. It's assets ( Money & Real Estate etc. )

4. Freedom from being investigated or prosecuted in a criminal manner by local or federal authorities.

5. It's celebrity members, like Tom Cruise and John Travolta.

6. Competent members of the Office of Special Affairs which protects the church from outside threats.

7. Keeping hidden from Scientologists and the public the abuses that go on inside the church.

 

[Dave B.]

Get busy.

If you have ever seen anything abusive or illegal in your time in the CoS and you're American (sorry wonderful people in the rest of the world), you MUST do this. Don't forget to tell everyone you know to do it too!

If you have been fair gamed, harassed, stalked, received a C&D letter, been a member of Scientology, lost someone to Scientology, or can spout of links and facts, please halp. I don't see this pimped as strongly as it can and from someone who lives in the land of bureaucracy, this is fantastic. If you have experienced or have researched any illegal activities in the cult, this is an effective way to shut them down.

Scientology has violated many regulations in place for a non-profit organization. Complain enough about that, the IRS will launch an investigation. Include links, personal accounts, and as many clear and true facts as possible. Best parts? It's easy and if you prefer, YOU CAN REMAIN ANONYMOUS.

Here's how:

1. Fill this out. Attach additional documents if you have to. http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf

2. email it to [email protected]

3. ? ? ? ?

4. IRS rapes CoS

The breakdown of how to do things is copied from Anon stuff onto WBM's blog for easy access.
http://xenutv.wordpress.com/2008/12/13/how-to-file-an-irs-501c3-complaint/

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?9182-How-to-bring-down-Scientology-with-an-email

 

[Dulloldfart]

I'm sorry you feel that way Paul. I agree that when someone writes in all CAPS it can be real annoying. My text is clearly not in all caps so I don't see the problem. I was just following Karen's lead, but I feel red is a bit too much for my taste.

Yeah, but you are not Karen. However, it's fine. Bye.

Paul

 

[Mick Wenlock]

The common denominator that I've seen over the years taken to end David Miscavige's abuse of his power, his squirreling, his reign of terror and the church of scientology's "off trackness" is a PR one.

( Public Relations )

Don't get me wrong, I truly feel the PR approach has had a big impact on the church's standing in the world.

The question is, will it be enough? Or is it going to take something more, is it going to take legal action on top of that?

I think it is.

For all that Mike and Marty, ESMB, OCMB, WWP have done over the years, their approach has basically been a PR approach.

Now, I give credit to Marc Headly for having the balls to take a legal approach against the church but unfortunately, he lost.

The thing about suing the church of Scientology is that you have to make sure to win.

I thought that Debbie Cooke was going to use the legal route successfully but she bailed out before the fight even begun.

No folks, I'm afraid that its going to take more than bad PR from Marty, Mike, ESMB, WWP, OCMB and the Village Voice etc. to bring down the church of Scientology and to bring down the dictator that is running it.

I know that there's alot of you that believe that if we just keep up the bad PR to the "wog" world it will implode some day, I'm sorry, I don't think it will.

I think that we still should still keep telling the world about the abuses at Gold Base but I don't think it's going to unseat DM.

I just don't see bad PR for David Miscavige and the church doing the job.

It's going to take more than just bad public opinion and bad press to bag this tiger.

There is no ONE thing that is going to "bring it down". I doubt that Miscavige will ever be convicted of anything thuogh maybe a near brush might persuade him to take some of the money and flee.

The Christian Science cult is still around. Cults have enormous staying power - seriously - wiht all the data that is out there, with the almost certain chance that everyone currently in is connected to someone who is out - how are they still in? When we confront that simple fact we will maybe get an idea of how long this is going to take.

 

[Man de la Mancha]

This idea of something suddenly "bringing down Scientology" is absurd. Even criminal convictions would likely only affect the perpetrators and leave the church intact. Scn Inc has the money to handle current legal battles but need to stop creating them. If nothing else, the Sea Org will be around for a while. Even if there is no new public it can survive on real estate income and reserves. A possible doomsday scenario might involve fatally inept asset management.

 

[Free to shine]

Yeah, but you are not Karen. However, it's fine. Bye.

Paul

Honestly Paul, you should change your name to Grumpy Old Fart.
That was really rude.

 

[Demented LRH]

The COS will always be getting new members because of the truth contained in LRH's writings, not because of anything the church itself is doing, and by taping into new markets like Asia.

This is where we disagree -- to me ALL Hubbard's writings are a hogwash.

The question is -- what the potential CoS recruits think about Hubbard's works? Some may think that there is plenty of value value in them, but the majority would agree with me because of the abundance of anti-Scientology data on the Internet, icluding the research done by real scientists who proved once and for all that the engrams do not exist.

Those who think that Hubbard was a genius will join CoS. But let's not forget that there are disapponted members who leave CoS every day.

Mathematically speaking, the CoS attrition rate exceeds the CoS retention rate, which means that the cult is doomed.

 

[Boson Wog Stark]

I ask the questions: What does Scientology value you the most?

The answer: Their SECRETS! The secrets are the pop and sizzle of "selling" you more and more and more. It creates a mystery and an illusion that there is something to have.

No one new will come in and stay.

One stat I would like to see is the average length of stay in the last 15 years. I believe Arnie or one of the old guard compiled a stat through surveys and the like that said 80% leave after 2 years of starting courses.

Virtually all ex-members who make it all the way out talk about inklings they had throughout their experience. Certainly, the public members, anyway, should be following those feelings up more on the Web.

Scientology still presents a strong paradox of wanting to "know" in contrast to wanting to not know, or ignore. It appeals now more to people who want control and structure, and want to leap into something magickal, dangerous and exciting.

I know many people who were strongly resistant and dismissive of the Internet, before they actually explored it themselves. Now, this sounds like something Louanne or other shill would say about Scientology. However, the difference in the Internet is that it is less expensive. You can leave it when you like and the few people who leave it after years of using it aren't usually bitter. It's a source of information, not a control cult.

The Internet is an open source of information where you can see what answers are out there and what is unknown, whereas Scientology is the one Source for all the answers, supposedly. The first major drain the Internet has caused is on the attraction of Scientology for the curious and web literate. A friend of mine took a Scientology course, because at the time, ('80s) he felt it was the only way he could find out what it was about.

How long can the cult perpetuate the illusion that the only way to find out about Scientology, is to sign up at an Org, or believe the BS in Hubbard's books, which are becoming increasingly silly with each passing decade?

Aside from the curious themselves, there's the whole network of the friends and family of a person who may be getting involved in Scientology. The days of a parents like Dr. Lottick mistaking Scientology for a benign self-help group are over. The days of a concerned friend just saying, "Well, if it's what you want -- I don't know much about it," are over.

I still have hope that The Master alone is going to cause a rapid collapse in Scientology, because it has created the dialog. The world is watching. The world knows where to go for information -- the Web. Scientology's only recourse will be to hide, and withdraw their freak shows like The Squirrel Busters. Things like that will draw too much attention. They've even withdrawn their spokescreature. How much more can Scientology withdraw? Will they withdraw their PR? Withdraw sales of their books? Withdraw their leader? Try to recapture the mystery? How long can it be before speaking of someone in Scientology becomes like speaking of a family member who is in prison or a mental institution?

 

[AnonyMary]

It's going to take a lot more effort and work from exes and all those they have enjoined into helping expose the cult.

Scientology has been infiltrating and safe pointing different sectors of society with it's front groups and PR tactics ( including TR-L ) for years.

Only a fraction of the exes are actually regularly helping by doing what they can from where they are. Their help has been invaluable. However much more is needed.
There are government agencied and politicians to schmooze with and then inform; there are national organizations, like the Boy Scout, Toastmasters, Boys and Girls Club, woman's clubs and orgs. They have infiltrated many. Then you have the CCRHs and Narconons and their connections and games. It's endless the amount of help needed to counter what they have been doing over the last 20 years.

 

[5th Invader Force]

There is no ONE thing that is going to "bring it down". I doubt that Miscavige will ever be convicted of anything thuogh maybe a near brush might persuade him to take some of the money and flee.

I agree.

To be honest, I was hoping that we could be rid of Miscavige some time before he dies of old age.

 

[Gadfly]

I agree.

To be honest, I was hoping that we could be rid of Miscavige some time before he dies of old age.

Dying would work too - before old age . . . . . :confused2: