Can Mosey Get an Order to Depose David Miscavige?

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
It is a fact that the FBI was one of the organizations infiltrated during Operation Snow White. The FBI files have been released under FOIA and it is now a part of the public record along with the trials of the 11 Scientologists involved in Operation Snow White.

As to the claim that Scientology gave technical training to the FBI, there is no evidence to support this. When Scientology made similar claims regarding NASA, NASA denied their claims. I doubt Scientology would have any 'tech' that the FBI would want. The FBI has pioneered many techniques and trained law enforcement agencies around the world. Scientology has not.

I understand your view. I know what I typed was not something I read. It was in a discussion I had with someone in OSA or CCHR. Could well have been bullshit, or hyperbole, or outright lying and exaggeration given to me. And yes, I have seen NO evidence anywhere of such action.

Maybe someday someone from OSA or CCHR will add some data. The era was circa 1994. What programs was CCHR working on around that time? Dennis Clark was somehow connected from what I remember.
 

Karen#1

Gold Meritorious Patron
It doesn't make sense. If someone, not the police with a warrant, comes and takes personal property, then that's theft.
Why did he not call the police?
And how can he be kicked out of his own house unless he agrees to leave on his own?

A lot of things happen within the Church of Scientology that make no sense. They still happen again.
His co-operation is in the hopes that he can maintain a relationship with one of his sons who is reachable.
He did not fight back. He is a gentle soul.

I reported the same action done on Wolfgang Keller a year or so ago.
Same Modus Operandi.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...f-Scientology!&p=729512&viewfull=1#post729512

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...f-Scientology!&p=729556&viewfull=1#post729556
 

AnonKat

Crusader
[video=youtube;VK9qfVQ4Z04]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK9qfVQ4Z04[/video]

A lot of things happen within the Church of Scientology that make no sense. They still happen again.
His co-operation is in the hopes that he can maintain a relationship with one of his sons who is reachable.
He did not fight back. He is a gentle soul.

I reported the same action done on Wolfgang Keller a year or so ago.
Same Modus Operandi.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...f-Scientology!&p=729512&viewfull=1#post729512

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...f-Scientology!&p=729556&viewfull=1#post729556
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
I've only just now read Brousseau's declaration and WOW!! Talk about devastating to Slappy! And that is only one declaration!

I could be wrong, but I think the door has been opened for Ray Jeffrey to possibly depose the couch jumper, Tommy the Cruiser. Paragraphs 13 and 14 relate to SO labor being performed to upgrade and renovate his homes, as well as the construction of the custom trailer and limousine.

I hope that happens!! TG1 I'm borrowing your praying avatar.....:biggrin:

There's another way to look at this, Lone Star.
As it stands now, Mr. Brousseau's declaration contains certain assertions about Tom Cruise.
These assertions remain unrebutted unless/until Mr. Cruise chooses to deny/explain his 'side' of the story.

With that in mind then, if TeamCSI/RTC/Miscavige doesn't offer evidence to rebut/refute, then Mr. Brousseau's assertions are accepted as true.

Given his recent experience with the media storm over his last deposition in the Bauer Publishing case, it's reasonable to think Tom Cruise would be reticent to have another go, so to speak. But, reticent or not, I think David Miscavige will exert enough influence to obtain TC's cooperation.

A prudent, short-n-sweet declaration that says "I, Tom Cruise, have no idea about the work done on my motor home, limo, etc.", would be smart, but given what's been well-documented about David Miscavige's penchant for overkill-in-all-things, he'll probably demand something more.

Hope you read all of the declarations, btw - they're extraordinary.

JB
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
A lot of things happen within the Church of Scientology that make no sense. They still happen again.
His co-operation is in the hopes that he can maintain a relationship with one of his sons who is reachable.
He did not fight back. He is a gentle soul.

I reported the same action done on Wolfgang Keller a year or so ago.
Same Modus Operandi.


http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...f-Scientology!&p=729512&viewfull=1#post729512

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...f-Scientology!&p=729556&viewfull=1#post729556

Isn't this the same thing that happened in 2000 with Tory Magoo?
After a brief stay in Florida, she returned to her California home to find OSA and/or Co$-member(s) had confiscated her computer and other belongings with the full cooperation of her at-the-time husband?
If so, 13 years have passed and Co$ STILL uses the same disgusting page from the same disgusting play book.
(Of course, it happened much earlier than 13 years ago, too.)

Thank you, Karen#1, for letting us all know about this sad (and infuriating) situation.

JB
 

freethinker

Sponsor
Re: Monique Rathbun vs. Scientology: Affidavits Declarations

Just to add more perpective on this, there are some other things that were done as far as leaving staff sec checks were concerned.

There is a Leaving Staff Routing Form. The routing form is based mostly on Leaving and Leaves.

There are a number of steps on the R/F and one is to get a Leaving Staff Sec check. (mine was never completed nor the R/F).

There was a staff member who came back from OEC/FEBC who came up with a policy that applied to executives only and it applied to auditing only (which sec checking is not) but it was squirelled around that after you received two intensives you had to pay for the rest to complete the sec check. I called bullshit and mine was never completed but this squirreling of policy began to catch on and many orgs were using it to get staff to pay for their sec check.

What Lone Star said is true, stretch to fit policy and tech was applied to where longstanding and trusted public were allowed to do sec checks on staff and if it was a staff that they didn't care if they kept or not then student auditors on Level II could audit them for their requirements to complete their course. They just had to finish it on the staff even though they comp'd.

It's true that clas V are not put on the RPF but they are given "Mest Work" to do while they are in lowers. This could be fixing up CF to fixing something in the org to doing everyone else' handout requirement for the week or month or whatever.

It's all punishment driven introvert-the-person tech so they won't be a problem so whatever was deemed needed to be done was done regardless of tech and policy because HCOPL "Service" was applied liberaly. That's the policy that says "I don't care how many rules you break as long as it is done in the name of service."



Any staff member at a Class V leaving whose contract is about up does undergo a sec check if all points are in. They are done by a staff auditor. It would piss off the Qual Sec, because he wanted the auditors auditing paying public, as that was his important statistic. There are supposed to be staff-staff auditors who conduct auditing actions on staff, who would handle this and other actions on staff. Haven't seen a lot of orgs that really had that and so the 'regular' auditors would have to be used, which meant staff waited. I've seen staff who had a way to get money (their spouse or whatever) actually pay for their routing-off sec check so they could get out of there sooner.

I did a few of these, and it SUCKED. There was vicious pressure on the auditor to pull the right withholds so the staff member would stay. I got threatened quite a few times with an SP declare. I'd be shown the references where the only reason a person wants to leave is because of a missed withhold. Missing a withhold was a High Crime, i.e. Suppressive Act; therefore if the staff member still wanted to leave, then the auditor had really messed up:eyeroll:. My worksheets and tapes were reviewed constantly, with input from the ED. The C/S would try to keep adding more and more questions to get the person to cog and stay. Freaking nightmare.

The other sec checks given while I was there was for people in HCO being posted. Someone who goes into HCO is supposed to receive a sec check. I haven't always seen this done, but there was policy, and it came from uplines that this needed to start happening.

Contrary to what you hear, what I saw, it was rarely that staff members went through sec checks. They had to be valuable--up in the org board or making money (such as a reg) or on some other post really important for the more important stats; and then fuck it up, and the sec checks went crazy to handle the scene. More often, the person would be stuck in the ethics area continually writing up the O/Ws and doing lower conditions and very often MEST work, until they 'popped out of it'. They were also pretty shunned by the rest of the staff.

As far as who does the sec checks, there aren't really many SO members hanging out at Class V orgs. Those that are are on the admin side, and so wouldn't be auditing anyone, let alone staff. There are 2 real exceptions. When an org reaches "St. Hill size", they get a team from the "Universe Corp" (composed of SO members), whose job it is to audit the staff up through the OT levels.

The second is when an org really fucks up and a mission comes in to sort stuff out. These come in with the intent to handle ethics, and boy did that suck. Mostly, ethics interviews and rollback and conditions, with some folks getting sec checked... very nasty business. You'd walk into the org, and see all these staff members scrubbing the walls with toothbrushes. Seriously.

ETA (just because I continue to see the misconception): Staff members are not put on the RPF. That is strictly for SO, but they do have ways of abusing the lowly folks, too.
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
Isn't this the same thing that happened in 2000 with Tory Magoo?
After a brief stay in Florida, she returned to her California home to find OSA and/or Co$-member(s) had confiscated her computer and other belongings with the full cooperation of her at-the-time husband?
If so, 13 years have passed and Co$ STILL uses the same disgusting page from the same disgusting play book.
(Of course, it happened much earlier than 13 years ago, too.)

Thank you, Karen#1, for letting us all know about this sad (and infuriating) situation.

JB

Earlier today, after reading Mike Rinder's affidavit. I posted in the comments of his blog, "Who's the Ser-fac'y motherfucker now, Dave you little bitch!" Exactly for this reason.

Over 20 years of DM's minions dishing out the same conta-survival nastiness against the cult detractors. We know it, but we've adapted to expose and destroy it.

Tic-toc, Dave. Tic. Toc.
 

freethinker

Sponsor
I'd be willing to bet there is a high percentage of those who regret taking a check not too long after doing so in the corporate world as well as Scientology.


And as smug as Wayne looks sitting out on the veranda, I have a strong feeling the Debbie and Wayne saga has some ugly chapters left to be written. It just went too easy.


I don't either.

Someone pulls out a checkbook. Someone decides to take a check. Not unheard of. Precedent has been set already. Stranger things have happened.

Scientology is a world of the incredible, the strange swerves in the plot, the unexpected, and on and on.

There's not many times in life when someone has a chance to get a multimillion dollar payday by signing a document. Sometimes people have a change of heart as the check is slide across the negotiation table . . . in spite of their noble ideals and goals. For the right price.

As Marty said in a recent interview, he didn't know what he might be doing six months from now . . . maybe even selling real estate. All I see is that things are shifting very rapidly within his head as evidence by his recent writings.

For a $15 million dollar check, I'd be willing to turn off my "Internet laptop" and never turn it back on again, never visit heretical blogs again for the rest of my life. I'd find other things to do.

Any offers? :biggrin:
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
That's exactly what I've been thinking. I believe part of the problem is that people don't stand up to these OSA motherfuckers. He's the man of that house and he should've acted like it.

Here's what I would've done....

I left around GAT I and since then I've been a bit of a black sheep in the Scn community. Never went into an org again, never took phone calls, etc.

Two twenty-year-long friends ratted me out a few years ago when they were called in and put on the hot seat in OSA's LA office (rollback, gang bang ethics, threat of severe punishment). Neither could take the heat very well and both folded up like rusty old lawn chairs. They both turned in their personal laptops so they could be scoured for . . . whatever it is OSA looks for. Perhaps email contact lists, disaffected emails, un-erased browsing histories, heretical bookmarks, forbidden ebooks, etc.

A laptop interrogation (scouring your hard drive) is SOP and to be expected nowadays. More common than you'd think.

One ex-friend actually lied to my face about what had happened, denying that I was even mentioned during a week-long interrogation. Later, I find out different. :omg:

C’est la vie.

I have new friends now. :yes:
 

Gib

Crusader
I don't either.

Someone pulls out a checkbook. Someone decides to take a check. Not unheard of. Precedent has been set already. Stranger things have happened.

Scientology is a world of the incredible, the strange swerves in the plot, the unexpected, and on and on.

There's not many times in life when someone has a chance to get a multimillion dollar payday by signing a document. Sometimes people have a change of heart as the check is slide across the negotiation table . . . in spite of their noble ideals and goals. For the right price.

As Marty said in a recent interview, he didn't know what he might be doing six months from now . . . maybe even selling real estate. All I see is that things are shifting very rapidly within his head as evidence by his recent writings.
For a $15 million dollar check, I'd be willing to turn off my "Internet laptop" and never turn it back on again, never visit heretical blogs again for the rest of my life. I'd find other things to do
.

Any offers? :biggrin:

that's why hubbard said the 9th dynamic was money.

:roflmao:

with enough money one can buy himself out of anything, is

what hisself said
 

Gib

Crusader
Re: Monique Rathbun vs. Scientology: Affidavits Declarations

Any staff member at a Class V leaving whose contract is about up does undergo a sec check if all points are in. They are done by a staff auditor. It would piss off the Qual Sec, because he wanted the auditors auditing paying public, as that was his important statistic. There are supposed to be staff-staff auditors who conduct auditing actions on staff, who would handle this and other actions on staff. Haven't seen a lot of orgs that really had that and so the 'regular' auditors would have to be used, which meant staff waited. I've seen staff who had a way to get money (their spouse or whatever) actually pay for their routing-off sec check so they could get out of there sooner.

I did a few of these, and it SUCKED. There was vicious pressure on the auditor to pull the right withholds so the staff member would stay. I got threatened quite a few times with an SP declare. I'd be shown the references where the only reason a person wants to leave is because of a missed withhold. Missing a withhold was a High Crime, i.e. Suppressive Act; therefore if the staff member still wanted to leave, then the auditor had really messed up:eyeroll:. My worksheets and tapes were reviewed constantly, with input from the ED. The C/S would try to keep adding more and more questions to get the person to cog and stay. Freaking nightmare.

The other sec checks given while I was there was for people in HCO being posted. Someone who goes into HCO is supposed to receive a sec check. I haven't always seen this done, but there was policy, and it came from uplines that this needed to start happening.

Contrary to what you hear, what I saw, it was rarely that staff members went through sec checks. They had to be valuable--up in the org board or making money (such as a reg) or on some other post really important for the more important stats; and then fuck it up, and the sec checks went crazy to handle the scene. More often, the person would be stuck in the ethics area continually writing up the O/Ws and doing lower conditions and very often MEST work, until they 'popped out of it'. They were also pretty shunned by the rest of the staff.

As far as who does the sec checks, there aren't really many SO members hanging out at Class V orgs. Those that are are on the admin side, and so wouldn't be auditing anyone, let alone staff. There are 2 real exceptions. When an org reaches "St. Hill size", they get a team from the "Universe Corp" (composed of SO members), whose job it is to audit the staff up through the OT levels.

The second is when an org really fucks up and a mission comes in to sort stuff out. These come in with the intent to handle ethics, and boy did that suck. Mostly, ethics interviews and rollback and conditions, with some folks getting sec checked... very nasty business. You'd walk into the org, and see all these staff members scrubbing the walls with toothbrushes. Seriously.

ETA (just because I continue to see the misconception): Staff members are not put on the RPF. That is strictly for SO, but they do have ways of abusing the lowly folks, too.

One Doug Long did my leaving staff sec checks. He tried to crack me, first time I went "whole track", but it was just because of his pressure, and it was BS

the pressure was "yah that, that, that"

I never came up with anything in present life (nor did I go whole track, it was bullshit, no clear pictures or anything, just stupid thoughts)

as there was nothing there. LOL

Years later I find out he committed suicide:

http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=21640

Can you fuk'in believe it. OMG.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
I used to regularly audit (and Sec Check) SO Members as a non-SO Auditor with RTC "OK to Sec Check and do OT Review" right up until '96. I audited Crew and Staff from CLOs, AOs, Flag etc for hundreds, if not thousands, of hours. Around that time (1996) something changed, I think it was the External Influence deal, and suddenly I was pulled off from auditing SO Crew - auditing Staff was still OK. I moved over to FES'ing backlogged folders of SO Crew, just to keep the help flow going. Those poor bassids needed all the help they could get!
 
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Karen#1

Gold Meritorious Patron
Amy Scobee Declaration
23 September 2013



++++++ #4 David Miscavige operated as an "only one" #4
+++++++ #5 Miscavige possessed the power to *banish* anyone from Spiritual enlightenment and could order a sentence to hard labor for extensive periods of time.
+++++He had a large entourage of "enforcers" to see anything he uttered was complied with
+++++++#6 Penalties for non compliance to Miscavige were gruesome
#8 Miscavige ordered Marc Yager (CSI's highest ranking member) to the "swamp" .
#8He was required to build a bamboo cage for him self and then he lived in isolation for 2 years under security watch.





 
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Since Miscavage has gone on record in this trial with his declaration of being nominally in charge ( I paraphrase) and here we have 15 contrary declarations including Cook transcript - hasn't he perjured himself? What are the penalties for perjury in this case? Mimsey
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Brian's response was OK, but I would have been more direct.

If you can read those 2 books, documenting the Moonchild, the lies about education, the thefts, the chain locker, Operation Snow White, Operation Freak Out, and all the rest, and come away with the idea that all that was wrong was Hubbard's temper?

You're a fucking idiot who needs to re-do grammar school reading comprehension.

It's that simple.

Yes, one would think so. But after leaving the SO in 1996 (after 23 years in) I read those books and far more online and a year later I still thought Hubbard was wonderful. Maybe a few little warts but nothing to worry about compared to all his marvellous contributions to mankind.

"The farce is strong with this one" applies to many long-term Scios. It is VERY hard to crack through.

Paul
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Re: Monique Rathbun vs. Scientology: Affidavits Declarations

How did they audit you with the extra commands that are used on OT's if they are not trained on those? Did they not do the ownership steps?

Some time between 1987 and 1994 I remember throwing together a RIDIDI (read it — drill it — do it) checklist for flying ruds (etc) on OT3's and above for an OSA INT auditor who was OT3 but wasn't Class VIII- or AO-Review-Auditor-Course-trained (she was Grad V, possibly NOTs-trained too). I checked her out on it and drilled her on the procedure, and then she went off and audited it. I don't know what the rest of them did, but few if any of them were VIIIs.

Paul
 
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Gib

Crusader
In reading Mark Pesch declaration today, he was Treas Sec FSO.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/189390237/Monique-Rathbun-v-Scientology-Affidavits-Declarations-Part-2

In 2002 there was a meeting with the FSO Div Heads, for "Flaps & Handling". I never heard of that before.

But DM gets to Mark's division, treasury, and says Flag is owed millions of dollars from past training of outer org staff. So Mark's flap & handling was to collect $500,000 per week from the 150 orgs.

So Mark contacts all the orgs and soon finds out the orgs have other past due bills like rent, utilities, phone, etc. And per dateline paying of bills per policy it's impossible to collect money from the orgs owed money to Flag.

Of course this "owed money to Flag" is all nonsense if one is embarked on "clearing the planet". LOL

But, when I first read Mark's declaration, I thought DM was after the money. Just like LRH was with the Mission Holder conference in 1982. And maybe DM was?

But, on second thought, since that target for Mark to get $500,000 per week is impossible,

I then thought maybe DM's plan was to get as much money as possible, but also to get rid of the old timer Mark Pesch since he knows things.

And sure enough, because Mark didn't make the target of $500,000 per week, he was offered go to the RPF or be demoted to the Mill Factory.
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
Re: Can Mosey Rathbun Get an Order to Depose David Miscavige? - December 11, 2013

RadarOnline has reviewed the declarations filed by Monique Rathbun's attorney and, as a result, written an "exclusive" article that's getting alot of attention. Here's the link to the article: http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2...inside-scientologys-forced-labor-camp-prison/


"Do Tom & John Know? Ex-Scientologists Allege 'Physical & Psychological Abuse' Inside Scientology's 'Forced Labor Camp' & 'Prison'"

Excerpts:

The former Scientologists made the new allegations in declarations filed as part of Monique Rathbun‘s lawsuit against the Church of Scientology and its leader, David Miscavige, both of which she alleges executed a campaign of harassment against her. The declarations are meant to be evidence to support her claims that Miscavige oversees all church operations but what they allege is far more shocking.

One former Scientologist, John Brousseau, says he was sent to “forced labor camp” twice because of his perceived disobedience of Miscavige, and was also involved with the “incarceration” of other Scientologists in the notorious complex, “The Hole.”

“As part of the incarceration process of the various executives, managers, and other Sea Org personnel to ‘the hole’ …” he says, “Miscavige ordered me … to install steel bars across all possible exit doors of the office trailer complex where the personnel were confined.” In addition, he says, the complex was guarded by a 24-hour security guard.

The “bizarre prison” was established in the California desert in 2005 by Miscavige, Claire Headley claims in her own declaration. “The compound was guarded with elaborate security mechanisms,” she claims, “specifically: high barbed-wire-topped fences, night vision high powered cameras, motion detecters, fence rattlers, high powered lights, a 24/7 manned security force with rovers” and more.

“The prison, which was termed ‘The Hole’ by Miscavige, consisted of two-double-wide trailers,” Headley claims. “Dozens of top Sea Org members were incarcerated in The Hole. … Only Miscavige could originate an order to put someone in the hole. [And] only Miscavige could originate an order to release someone from The Hole.”

So what happened inside? Headley, who claims to have been incarcerated in The Hole for 3 weeks, claims, “I experienced terrible conditions … where I was subjected to physical and psychological abuse. If I was allowed to sleep, I was required to do so under my desk on an office floor with a sleeping bag. I was not allowed to go home to my room where my clothing and belongings were kept. I had to ask someone to get clean underwear and bring that to me. I was required to shower in cold water with 25 other women at a time in a facility meant to provide shower capabilities for 3 people at a time. I was not allowed to attend meals, as a result of which I suffered extreme weight loss and extreme adrenal gland exhaustion.”

In one particularly brutal incident of punishment, she alleges, “The Hole inmates were assigned to clean out two aeration ponds that had been built on the compound grounds. These aeration ponds contained human feces which had been dehydrated after months in the hot desert sun. The staff were required to empty these ponds by hand, using buckets to empty the dried feces powder that now filled them … day and night … for 3 days. At least two staff (Kristina Jensen and Abigail Miller) ended up in the Hemet hospital with extreme respiration problems due to breathing human feces with absolutely no protection of any kind.”

The reason Headley was allegedly subjected to such punishment, she claims, is because she refused to divorce her husband of twelve years, Marc Headley, when Miscavige ordered her to do so.

Another Scientologist who claims to have spent time in the hole, Mark Rinder, said in his declaration that it was “literally a prison.”
But these court documents allege that physical and mental abuse occurred outside of The Hole as well.

For example, ex-Scientologist Chris Guider claims that in 2003 Miscavige “had … over 100 people brought from their sleeping beds to jump into a cold pool in the middle of the night as punishment for what he perceived to be poor performance. In late 2004, he had again the entire CMOI (CSI’s top management division) made to walk 1/4 of a mile to the International Base’s sewage treatment plan and had them clean it without protection of any kind. Another time in 2003 … 20 staff were sent away, never to return, each one split from their marriage for good. Or, in the case of one couple who refused to be split, excommunicated and sent to Alaska.”

Ex-Scientologist Stephen Hall alleges that he was denied food, thrown into a scum-covered pond, and publicly humiliated by Miscavige. As a result, he says, “My hair turned gray and I was barely able to function.”

And in his declaration, Marc Headley recalls being “made to run in the dark with motorcycles following close behind … made to sleep in tents in the dirt without mattresses or proper bedding, eat leftover food and perform menial labor tasks for months on end,” all because his video production team had “not completed some shots that Captain Miscavige had ordered done in an exact way.”

Yet another former Scientologist, Amy Scobee, alleges that she witnessed her direct supervisor, Mark Yager, be assigned by Miscavige to live in “an area known as the swamp because it was a swampy waste water catchment area.”

“Mr. Yager was required to build a bamboo cage to live in initially,” she claims, “and then lived in isolation in a trailer for nearly two years under 24-hour security watch.”

A rep for the Church of Scientology tells Radar, “These discredited allegations are nothing more than the same tired propaganda spread for nearly five years by the same tiny clique of anti-Scientologists. These people remain obsessively bitter at having been expelled from their positions in the Church nearly a decade ago for malfeasance and incompetence. Shopped to virtually every media outlet since 2009, these ever-morphing myths—including one lifted from a best-selling autobiography entirely unrelated to the Church—are being spread yet again by the clique’s propagandists who have shown they will lie to whatever extent it takes to get media attention for this frivolous, get-rich scheme now being hatched in a Texas courtroom. Orchestrated by a handful of bitter ex-Scientologists and unemployed bloggers with axes to grind, these made-up tales have been discredited by countless Church officials in sworn statements made under penalty of perjury.”

JB
 
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