Can someone help with my relationship issues please? Sci/Non Sci breakup

I guess I wonder what my girlfriend expects from dating someone on the outside? Obviously we all have questions and struggle to undertand the attraction to SCI. She was of the mindset we could get married at one point knowing I'd never join. She even told me she never wanted me to join.
Something I thought of - a possible reason she dates "wogs" is because, if she hooks up with a scio, and he gets a session and it comes up - it will get spread around. The auditors her age read folders, gossip about the withholds that came up in session. They are not supposed to, but they do. And one wagging tongue is all it takes for her hookup to be common knowledge in her scio world. So, dating wogs circumvents that whole scene.

Mimsey
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Thanks for the input. I just posted here last night for the first time and haven't spoken to her in days so I doubt someone was over her shoulder. It is quite scary how it's being described that people would intervene.

The realtionship is done and there was never a threat to SCN at all in any way. Nothing to worry about on their end. May not be for me but I think people can believe what they want. Just moving on.

That's the thing, the real truth about scientology sounds unbelievable to anyone who hasn't encountered it. It is a whole way of life that is very destructive on a personal basis, especially for families.

I really feel for you, breaking up with anyone is hard enough without scientology in the mix. I think it is sensible of you to post here and find out more, which you have. Don't freak about the dire warnings about OSA, they really have enough to get on with elsewhere in their collapsing world.
 

oneonewasaracecar

Gold Meritorious Patron
That's the thing, the real truth about scientology sounds unbelievable to anyone who hasn't encountered it. It is a whole way of life that is very destructive on a personal basis, especially for families.

I really feel for you, breaking up with anyone is hard enough without scientology in the mix. I think it is sensible of you to post here and find out more, which you have. Don't freak about the dire warnings about OSA, they really have enough to get on with elsewhere in their collapsing world.

I agree. Unless you are causing trouble for them or are a revenue stream, they ignore you.
 

Gib

Crusader
I appreciate that all but by no means my first. Ive had long relationships. This was a different kind of crazy love though.

I know of a OT8 that divorced a OT7 and married a wog, several years ago. They are still married and going strong. It's not all doom and gloom.

It all depends, you are educating yourself, it's all good. Decide for yourself what to do, only you know.
 

freethinker

Sponsor
The highlighted text is very important. i haven't read this thread so I don't know what you have been told by others but the fact that she has no desire for the bridge is a BIG plus point. Usually the Scientologist in a Scientologist Non-Scientologist relationship wants to go up the Bridge and bring the other along.

In this case it is an advantage that she doesn't desire the Bridge.

The mother doesn't care that you don't want the Bridge so you have a huge plus there.

The biggest problem is your communication.

If it were me, when I was with her I wouldn't talk about Scientology. If she brings it up, don't have any opinion on it and just work to get off the subject without insulting her or Scientology.

If she says you think she is screwed up then just say she isn't if you care that much. Just say you aren't interested in Scientology but only her and you want her. Then you are taking her for what she is, not that she has been in Scientology.

I would work along those lines. I don't have answers for your particular circumstances that I don't know about but if you both really care about each other then make that the priority rather than Scientology or that she was one and you weren't.

She is having a quandary called doubt in Scientology. They use a formula to work themselves out of Doubt. It's one of the better formulas of the group but still flawed. She may need to do that formula. Not with the church or its members but for herself. If she does it with the church, their end goal is that you always decide in favor of Scientology. So don't do it with them.

The basic of the formula is deciding what group you really want to be a part of. It seems she is half decided and needs to decide all the way.

It's a shot that may end with her leaving you for Scientology but at least she will decide one way or another, and hopefully she decides for you and not them.

My 2 cents.

First post, but by no means a troll...just a super sad ex boyfriend wondering if anyone could help shed some light on the demise of my realtionship with my Scientologist girlfriend.

I have never been involved in Scientology nor would I ever. I have been witness to so much of the mainstream media coverage on thew ill's and destruction the church can cause. I met a girl and we had an amazing magnetic chemistry from the start. I might add she is the most beautiful girl in the world in my opinion. This only makes it all harder.

She's from scientology family and was put through all the schooling and was on course until about few years ago. Her parents were big donors with deep ties and I have know idea how that affected her upbringing or development. I believe both are up very high.

Early in the realtionship, she slipped during a night of drinking and said " Well you'll think were all crazy cause we're Scientologist's" ... being very intersested and falling for her I figured we could make it work anyway.

Now while she has a huge network of mostly Scientologist friends, many have gone clear, some have recently reached OT3...She has expressed no desire for the bridge or to commit big money to following the path. Her last work was years ago. She has no problem with my non interest and even says she prefers to get out of the incestuous dating circle in LA of young Scientologists hence choosing me.

I had expressed my questions, asked her questions, asked about OT3 which she doesnt know about despite her family and friends but shes never been ok with talking much about it.

In any case, communivation has never been easy. Normal talks are often treated like attacks or arguments. Shes very defensive and somewhat unstable at times and I'm wondering what correlation to the up bringing there may be. If I'm honest, her 20+ years in the church havent helped her deal with any of the intense and difficult events shes encountered in her life and she is easily overwhelmed. Again no course work in the last few years and still low level.

I loved her imensely and the attraction is phenomenal. We have fun and enjoy the same things. However, she has called it quits saying I've been too critcal...essentially trying to figure out why she acts the way she does sometimes and self medicates so heavily with alcohol. Despite the isssues I just love her.

I'm trying to figure out if it was always doomed and on a ticking clock based on her ties, family and the way she was raised. Often emotionaly unavailbe and semi unstable at times. Very hot and cold. All while we were discussing moving in togther and she often makes jokes about marriage.

Her mother even loved me and didnt care that I was not a scientologist or cared to be one.

I guess I'm just wondering if it's possible to last in the long run being raised so differently with differnent ways to look at life. We do know a couple who are married with kids (One OT / one non SCN).

Looking for answers to help me through the pain cause I do love her so much. Happy to share more. Any thoughts are welcome.

Btw, she states that she'll never disconnect from me because she loves me and I've been a great person in her life. All very confusing.

DID I DODGE A BULLET AND SHOULD I LET THIS GO? I have heard yes from many friends and family.

Thank you

Confused
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Perhaps I've gotten too cynical as I've gotten older, but the part in red above is a serious concern for me.

It's not that Scientologists can "really manipulate and drop so called love so easily?", but rather that some beautiful girls find out early that they can manipulate some guys easily to get what they want, and that feeling of power is more addictive than cocaine.

Carefully re-read what you posted. You are describing a girl who is pretty, but doesn't have much beyond that. She needs somebody to "take care of her" because she's in her late 20's and still can't hold onto a decent job. You describe her as "fickle, robotic and heartless". She disappears when it looks like she has a job that will pay the bills without you. Then what happened? Did she come back because she missed you, or was it because the job didn't last, and she again needed you to help pay the bills?

It doesn't matter how gorgeous she is, or how good she is in bed. This woman looks like trouble. Run, and don't look back.

OMG, I thought I told you to shut that window tight. But you left it open and all kinds of reality blew in. LOL
 

freethinker

Sponsor
I hate to say this but after reading this post, it just may be that she is psychologically screwed up anyway even without Scientology.

These madly in love episodes in life are the most difficult to get through and over. IMO even more so than Scientology.

If I were you I would get busy doing other things in your life to get your mind off of her. If she really cares about you she will find you, but make sure it is because she wants you and not what you can do for her or help her out of.

It's gonna hurt for a while but it will hurt a lot more if you keep hoping for something that will never be.

It sucks, but it will suck less time if you cut it off than to keep trying to make something out of what really may be nothing.

I'm going to assume you live near Hollywood and that environment alone will mess anyone's head up. You don't have to say you live near there but I'm just saying that Hollywood is a mind bender because it's culture is seduction.


Thank you all for the helpful insight...As you can imagine it's been a hell of a time and I'm in a lot of pain...I had an uncle die a week ago and she has timed this right along with it. Even suggesting she used my time away to think about ending us. Very cold and calculated

A couple things to add...


1. We were having issues for the last couple months yet I've tried to always fix things and work for her. Maybe too hard. It's the irratic behavior, mood swings, seemingly multiple personalities, hot/cold feelings and inability to appologize or admit fault (even when starting a fight while intoxicated that was all her doing).

Despite how bad this sounds we have had wonderful times and amazing chemistry. It does make me question her honesty and commitment though.

2. As of now we are over. She wanted to end it. I don't know if she actually realizes there is something wrong on her end that wont be workable and she's protecting me, or not but it is being framed as she would simply be happier without me. She maintains that she loves me and is incredibly attracted but feels this is the right decision. She doesnt want to disconnect for whatever that's worth.

She just happened to make this decsion final in the last 10 days while I was away with a terminally ill relative and for the most part conducted it over text. That last two months have been strained with my family situation but she has also had a brother come to stay with her. They have enabled each other over the past weeks with a mutual drinking problem and she's changed.

I'm wondering about the possible sociopathic actions and tendencies that are being shown. The lack of heart and empathy for my recent loss, her cold separation, lack of remorse for her actions. Is it from the abuse of growing up in such a nightmare of a family? (She's witnessed and been subjected to horrible abuses I'm not sure I can mention here). Cleary real help is needed beyond whatever ill's the church claims it can heal.

3. THE FAMILY: Her mother as well as extended family and most of her friends seemed to love me. Her mom raved glowingly about me, even knowing I wasn't going to be a Scientologist.

---------

I guess I wonder what my girlfriend expects from dating someone on the outside? Obviously we all have questions and struggle to undertand the attraction to SCI. She was of the mindset we could get married at one point knowing I'd never join. She even told me she never wanted me to join.

I have been there for the last year with helping with rent, trips, vet bills, the most romantic dates, gifts, car repairs etc... I was helping her through hard times cause we were so into each other. I even rewrote her resumes and cover letters / follow up letters. She landed a temp job and has disapeared while I was away with the family illness. It all seems so fickle, robotic and heartless.

Its all confusing but was I just getting played by the Hubbard tek? Can Scientologists really manipulate and drop so called love so easily? She has ties to some prominent celebs in the cult and has reconnected with former best friends who are moving up the bridge. Can't be a good thing for me.

I'm left here with the want for that connection and love and she seems gone. My reason for coming here was to ask if I should pursue it and work for what we had, but it seems like you all say CUT THE CORD...On the phone two days ago she did actually sound tearful and hurt while saying "I'm sorry for any hurt I caused". It seemed very hard for her to get those word out.

Amazed she has the coldness to do it at such a time in such a way. I would work for it if there was a point. When we are good we are amazing togther.

She will always want to be somewhat involved and has friends since birth that have been there with her. She won't be leaving them. I have always worried about what could happen down the line with family and kids. She tells me not to tell her what I know about OT3 etc and that can't be good either. She wont read whats on the internet as far as I know.

Wondering if I should agree to meet in person to talk. She says she will if I want it. Not sure there is a point or if it's just a formality.

Shitty part is her beauty and the chemistry will haunt me forever. She claims she wants to be married someday soon but I can't imagine anyone doing better than I did. Especially if they are a non sci like me.

Sorry for the rambling...Not easy to find ex scientologists to get insight from.

Btw, am I at risk voicing all this here? In all seriousness...

Thanks
Confused

Excuse the typos
 

Knows

Gold Meritorious Patron
Perhaps I've gotten too cynical as I've gotten older, but the part in red above is a serious concern for me.

It's not that Scientologists can "really manipulate and drop so called love so easily?", but rather that some beautiful girls find out early that they can manipulate some guys easily to get what they want, and that feeling of power is more addictive than cocaine.

Carefully re-read what you posted. You are describing a girl who is pretty, but doesn't have much beyond that. She needs somebody to "take care of her" because she's in her late 20's and still can't hold onto a decent job. You describe her as "fickle, robotic and heartless". She disappears when it looks like she has a job that will pay the bills without you. Then what happened? Did she come back because she missed you, or was it because the job didn't last, and she again needed you to help pay the bills?

It doesn't matter that she's a Scientologist. It matters that she appears to be using you. She doesn't want you in Scientology. Is it out of concern for you, or because she recognizes that Scientologists get the money sucked out of them, leaving them poor and less able to spend money on HER?

It doesn't matter how gorgeous she is, or how good she is in bed. This woman looks like trouble. Run, and don't look back.

Most Scientologists are disabled due to their involvement with Scientology. Scientology disables the able and destroys the unable! Quickly or slowly - it is a totally suppressive and evil group and L Ron Hubbard's tech has too much poison in it to try to separate the wheat from the chaff.

GET RID OF Scientology - all books, lectures, tapes and pamphlets and disconnect from Scientologist's!

Scientology KILLS!!
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
The highlighted text is very important. i haven't read this thread so I don't know what you have been told by others but the fact that she has no desire for the bridge is a BIG plus point. Usually the Scientologist in a Scientologist Non-Scientologist relationship wants to go up the Bridge and bring the other along.

In this case it is an advantage that she doesn't desire the Bridge.

The mother doesn't care that you don't want the Bridge so you have a huge plus there.

The biggest problem is your communication.

If it were me, when I was with her I wouldn't talk about Scientology. If she brings it up, don't have any opinion on it and just work to get off the subject without insulting her or Scientology.

If she says you think she is screwed up then just say she isn't if you care that much. Just say you aren't interested in Scientology but only her and you want her. Then you are taking her for what she is, not that she has been in Scientology.

I would work along those lines. I don't have answers for your particular circumstances that I don't know about but if you both really care about each other then make that the priority rather than Scientology or that she was one and you weren't.

She is having a quandary called doubt in Scientology. They use a formula to work themselves out of Doubt. It's one of the better formulas of the group but still flawed. She may need to do that formula. Not with the church or its members but for herself. If she does it with the church, their end goal is that you always decide in favor of Scientology. So don't do it with them.

The basic of the formula is deciding what group you really want to be a part of. It seems she is half decided and needs to decide all the way.

It's a shot that may end with her leaving you for Scientology but at least she will decide one way or another, and hopefully she decides for you and not them.

My 2 cents.

I like this as a possible approach up to the point where getting married or having children are involved. If things go sideways you don't want to be dealing with custody, child support, religion, education and potential employment of the children with the Church meddling in the background and Scientology influence on financial and other priorities in a marriage should not be left for discovery after the fact.

With most established religions the other partner can have a pretty good idea of what is involved just with common knowledge but Scientology is much more intrusive and the only real predictability is that it will seek to exert undue influence over the family's priorities.

I'd also add that resolving an indecision or "doubt" about Scientology as an organization or philosophy is more likely to take years as opposed to some kind of instant epiphany. The subtle influences that Scientology can have on a person can be very deeply seated and take a lot of time and work to unravel. I'd even suggest that the moment one decides against Scientology is where the real work actually begins.
 
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freethinker

Sponsor
What you say is true, however, the business of marriage goes awry often even in the most favorable conditions.

So he should do a pre-nup to cover all those possibilities.If she balks at that then that's a good indication that it isn't really love, but infatuation disguised as love that has a permeable membrane.

Really, if there is this much consternation in the relationship now then it is likely to re-occur and intensify in the future so it's probably better to find a more stable partner.

I like this as a possible approach up to the point where getting married or having children are involved. If things go sideways you don't want to be dealing with custody, child support, religion, education and potential employment of the children with the Church meddling in the background and Scientology influence on financial and other priorities in a marriage should not be left for discovery after the fact.

With most established religions the other partner can have a pretty good idea of what is involved just with common knowledge but Scientology is much more intrusive and the only real predictability is that it will seek to exert undue influence over the family's priorities.

I'd also add that resolving an indecision or "doubt" about Scientology as an organization or philosophy is more likely to take years as opposed to some kind of instant epiphany. The subtle influences that Scientology can have on a person can be very deeply seated and take a lot of time and work to unravel. I'd even suggest that the moment one decides against Scientology is where the real work actually begins.
 

Gizmo

Rabble Rouser
One last thing, regarding picking people for long-term relationships:

Beauty fades. Then what you are left with, is who they are on the inside.

Ignore her looks, mentally visualize her ten years older and 40 pounds heavier, and ask yourself "Will I still enjoy her company? Is this the person I want to grow old with? Is this the person I want helping to raise my children?"

If the self-honest answer to any of the above is "no", then walk away.

Dear God, anyone who judges a person almost SOLELY on their physical appearance ? Fucking doomed from the gitgo, bud.

The physical package is only about 2 % of the total person. The other 98 % ( the non physical part of the person ) has a lot to do with who is home.

Hollywood continues to prove tits & ass do tend to age in spite of the best plastic surgery money can buy - well, some people, apparently, are into that one-too-many face re-works that leaves the once beautiful lady looking like a lioness.

But, some people whose choice of a partner is based on physical appearance while at the same time have NO consideration what they themselves will " look like " in 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, 40 years but GLEEFULLY imagine what their " perhaps " partner will look like in X number of years.

Is that just funny . . . . or so sad ?

Me ? 40 years down the road ? Still feel I married a wonderful person that is still just as wonderful. The best parent I could ever imagine for out children. And still a person others seek out for advice & adore.

Ain't beauty in the eye of the beholder ?

So to think ones partner isn't going to end up " pretty" ?

Is that where that " Life is a bitch " comes from ?

or why we now have a lifetime of "starter" marriages?

Yeah, marry based on physical appearance . . . . . . doesn't that sound so like a die hard scientologist ?
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Yeah, marry based on physical appearance . . . . . . doesn't that sound so like a die hard scientologist ?

Very nice post apart from the above. It sounds like the average
guy on the street and not at all like a scientologist.

They want to check there admin scales first:coolwink:
 

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
TL:DR Yes, you dodged a huge bullet.

You are letting your physical attraction cloud your judgement. Saying she was hot/cold and communication was difficult doesn't point towards some profound connection or intimate relationship that can never be repeated. There are many pretty ladies in this world, and esp in LA, that can handle life's challenges without melting down and that don't have the crazy pants scientology baggage, go find one.
 
I think you need to break it down like a math problem, You have the Scn element, that is a percentage of the relationship, although it doesn't sound like a big percentage. You have the psychological issues that are not being addressed by anything right now, religion, meditation etc. Those will probably increase if this person doesn't find something she can use to help herself. There are the moral issues ( drinking, not working) and that is a percentage of the relationship, a negative part. There is the fact that she broke up with you while you were handling a serious family problem, this would be a negative. There are the positive parts of the relationship, chemistry, physical attraction, mutual interests.

If you break all that down quantitatively, you should be able to get a number that leans toward keeping or not keeping the relationship.

There might be other pluses or minuses in there too that you forgot to mention.

Just my opinion of course but it doesn't seem that Scientology is influencing your relationship now. It seems that life is influencing it and this is where you need to decide whether these life issues are deal breakers of if they can be fixed.
 
I think you need to break it down like a math problem, You have the Scn element, that is a percentage of the relationship, although it doesn't sound like a big percentage. You have the psychological issues that are not being addressed by anything right now, religion, meditation etc. Those will probably increase if this person doesn't find something she can use to help herself. There are the moral issues ( drinking, not working) and that is a percentage of the relationship, a negative part. There is the fact that she broke up with you while you were handling a serious family problem, this would be a negative. There are the positive parts of the relationship, chemistry, physical attraction, mutual interests.

If you break all that down quantitatively, you should be able to get a number that leans toward keeping or not keeping the relationship.

There might be other pluses or minuses in there too that you forgot to mention.

Just my opinion of course but it doesn't seem that Scientology is influencing your relationship now. It seems that life is influencing it and this is where you need to decide whether these life issues are deal breakers of if they can be fixed.


I guess I woner how much of her baggage/issues/problems that have surfaced realte to the grwoing up in scientology and its effects. If these things are insurmountable and if I should in fact break way becasue those deep seeded views and ways of handling life/conflict/tragedy or normal couple issues wont change.

It's really like i ahve dated and fallen in love with two different people...a true multiple personality situation. Of course I love the good side but sometimes it's just so hard to understand and deal with the other.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
I guess I woner how much of her baggage/issues/problems that have surfaced realte to the grwoing up in scientology and its effects. If these things are insurmountable and if I should in fact break way becasue those deep seeded views and ways of handling life/conflict/tragedy or normal couple issues wont change.

It's really like i ahve dated and fallen in love with two different people...a true multiple personality situation. Of course I love the good side but sometimes it's just so hard to understand and deal with the other.

The underlying person is the underlying person. Scientology doesn't change that.

If the underlying person is an unstable alcoholic who can't hold a job, then that's who she is, with or without Scientology.

Keep in mind that, however much you love her good side, that in a long term relationship you will have to cope with ALL sides. Also keep in mind that her personality will persist long after her beauty has faded.

Perhaps, if you are really determined to make a go of it, you can see how she is while away from her Scientology environment. Just get away with her for a while, and go far from LA. Maybe get a job in a location that is far from the nearest Scientology organization, have her move in with you for a while, and see how it goes.

I think you can do better than her, though.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
I guess I woner how much of her baggage/issues/problems that have surfaced realte to the grwoing up in scientology and its effects. If these things are insurmountable and if I should in fact break way becasue those deep seeded views and ways of handling life/conflict/tragedy or normal couple issues wont change.

It's really like i ahve dated and fallen in love with two different people...a true multiple personality situation. Of course I love the good side but sometimes it's just so hard to understand and deal with the other.

Scientology has a way of co-opting existing personality traits and disproportionately increasing some traits over others. At least a first generation has a chance to develop a basic personality that can be used as reference but with a 2nd generation it must be especially difficult to understand where an existing trait begins and Scientology ends.

Scientology is not a natural state for any person. It is a highly artificial construct and my own theory is that a small percentage of people have a personality trait that syncs. Even these may only sync for a few years. I think LRH understood that he only wanted the small percentage that had personality traits that would sync forever. So according to this theory most 2nd generation would naturally gravitate away from it because they were not "pre-qualified" in any way to be attracted to it.

On one extreme a person could be primed to just bust loose and let their own nature take over and on the other extreme they may take a lifetime to unravel.
 

oneonewasaracecar

Gold Meritorious Patron
I guess I woner how much of her baggage/issues/problems that have surfaced realte to the grwoing up in scientology and its effects. If these things are insurmountable and if I should in fact break way becasue those deep seeded views and ways of handling life/conflict/tragedy or normal couple issues wont change.

It's really like i ahve dated and fallen in love with two different people...a true multiple personality situation. Of course I love the good side but sometimes it's just so hard to understand and deal with the other.

I know exactly how you feel. I had a huge crush on a guy once and I had two twin children to him, a boy and a girl. I had to leave him eventually because he was incredibly violent. He had this weird idea that he had magical powers to influence people's minds at a distance. It didn't really work on me of course, but he had an excuse for that as cultists always do.

The cult ended up being involved in some political coup a long time ago somewhere far away. During the coup he personally killed a lot of people including children mostly during this coup and some afterwards so I am glad I got out when I did. He was once a really nice guy but he was influenced profoundly by a really evil cult leader.

He eventually died after having a number of duels with friends and family where they kept cutting off each others hands with laser swords. You know, he'd cut our son's hand off, our son would cut off his hand, it was ridiculous. One time his good friend even pushed him into a volcano.

I steer clear of anyone involved in a space cult now. More trouble than it's worth.
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
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