Can someone help with my relationship issues please? Sci/Non Sci breakup

[SoConfused]

First post, but by no means a troll...just a super sad ex boyfriend wondering if anyone could help shed some light on the demise of my realtionship with my Scientologist girlfriend.

I have never been involved in Scientology nor would I ever. I have been witness to so much of the mainstream media coverage on thew ill's and destruction the church can cause. I met a girl and we had an amazing magnetic chemistry from the start. I might add she is the most beautiful girl in the world in my opinion. This only makes it all harder.

She's from scientology family and was put through all the schooling and was on course until about few years ago. Her parents were big donors with deep ties and I have know idea how that affected her upbringing or development. I believe both are up very high.

Early in the realtionship, she slipped during a night of drinking and said " Well you'll think were all crazy cause we're Scientologist's" ... being very intersested and falling for her I figured we could make it work anyway.

Now while she has a huge network of mostly Scientologist friends, many have gone clear, some have recently reached OT3...She has expressed no desire for the bridge or to commit big money to following the path. Her last work was years ago. She has no problem with my non interest and even says she prefers to get out of the incestuous dating circle in LA of young Scientologists hence choosing me.

I had expressed my questions, asked her questions, asked about OT3 which she doesnt know about despite her family and friends but shes never been ok with talking much about it.

In any case, communivation has never been easy. Normal talks are often treated like attacks or arguments. Shes very defensive and somewhat unstable at times and I'm wondering what correlation to the up bringing there may be. If I'm honest, her 20+ years in the church havent helped her deal with any of the intense and difficult events shes encountered in her life and she is easily overwhelmed. Again no course work in the last few years and still low level.

I loved her imensely and the attraction is phenomenal. We have fun and enjoy the same things. However, she has called it quits saying I've been too critcal...essentially trying to figure out why she acts the way she does sometimes and self medicates so heavily with alcohol. Despite the isssues I just love her.

I'm trying to figure out if it was always doomed and on a ticking clock based on her ties, family and the way she was raised. Often emotionaly unavailbe and semi unstable at times. Very hot and cold. All while we were discussing moving in togther and she often makes jokes about marriage.

Her mother even loved me and didnt care that I was not a scientologist or cared to be one.

I guess I'm just wondering if it's possible to last in the long run being raised so differently with differnent ways to look at life. We do know a couple who are married with kids (One OT / one non SCN).

Looking for answers to help me through the pain cause I do love her so much. Happy to share more. Any thoughts are welcome.

Btw, she states that she'll never disconnect from me because she loves me and I've been a great person in her life. All very confusing.

DID I DODGE A BULLET AND SHOULD I LET THIS GO? I have heard yes from many friends and family.

Thank you

Confused

 

[SoConfused]

xx

 

[lotus]

Hello,

Warm welcome to you!
Your post speaks of the genuine caring person you are - lucky she is.

It's obvious you love her

But what you describes of her is typical of the $cientology dammages , especially this: '' Often emotionaly unavailbe, non apologetic and semi unstable at times. Very hot and cold''

(true dedicated) Scientologists usually spend a liftetime in being made wrong, interrogated with a lie detector on a permanent basis to tell all about their intimate life, their thinking and their doing, including all sexual thoughts and doings. depending on the findings, they are then submitted to a regimen of harsh discipline to correct their thoughts and behavior to suit the cult expectations. A personnal intimate life is impossible. Al this to reach pseudo status and spiritual levels that don't exist - thus they are constantly handled for they didn't reach those pseudo-levels and are to paid all the handlings. They must be totally dedicated to the cult (saving the planet) and all their life aspects are ruled by Ron Hubbard policies which are called ''source'' and must be followed to the letter . She can't talk about OT3, since it is confidential and nobody can discuss those cult secrets in the cult. However, you can make a search on you tube and what you will find is accurate.
That will make you aware of what you are dealing with if she remains a $cientologists.

the cult inlfuence can be of a greater or lesser degree depending of her (and family) involvement.

Since she expressed she doesn't want to go up the bridge and is not deeply involved neither dedicated, she might be already engaged in a process of giving up. Till she feels confident with you she might, soon or later, make it a clear stance to you.

I don't know if it's better to discuss it now or not...
I'll let other folks to provide their viewpoint on it though.

My best wishes that it can be worked out, for you both!
:wink2:

 

[Moderator 3375]

Welcome SoConfused.
As you started two threads with the same post and one was edited, I have merged them into one thread here and moved it to New Members.
This way we can keep all the replies together.
Moderator 3375

 

[SoConfused]

Thank you^^^

But can it remain in General? Looking for as many responses as possible.

 

[Jump]

In a cult, the only valid relationship is between the leader and each follower. Any relationship between followers is a threat to the groupthink of the cult. To make this work, each member takes on a cult-personality that matches the leader's. In effect, you are having a relationship with L. Ron Hubbard or by default David Miscavige.

Among the most valued whales this is taken to literal excess. You might recall that David Miscavige went away on Tom Cruise' and Katy Holmes honeymoon. This is because their relationship was a risky threat to the cult.

Just so you know, Hubbard liked rum and Miscavige is a big scotch drinker. Single malt.

 

[Moderator 3375]

Thank you^^^

But can it remain in General? Looking for as many responses as possible.

OK, I moved it back.

 

[SoConfused]

In a cult, the only valid relationship is between the leader and each follower. Any relationship between followers is a threat to the groupthink of the cult. To make this work, each member takes on a cult-personality that matches the leader's. In effect, you are having a relationship with L. Ron Hubbard or by default David Miscavige.

Among the most valued whales this is taken to literal excess. You might recall that David Miscavige went away on Tom Cruise' and Katy Holmes honeymoon. This is because their relationship was a risky threat to the cult.

Just so you know, Hubbard liked rum and Miscavige is a big scotch drinker. Single malt.

Well what are your thoughts on the relationship aspect and if these problems arise from abuses and exposure to things growing up that just cant be fixed? Like I said, she prefers to date outside the SCI circle. Now this may because it's small and everyone knows each others business? She has had 2 long term realtionships with Scientologist's go bad in the past...They should have been able to work out issues better with shared tech communication. I'm guessing anyway.

But most her friends date other sceintologists. Many really like me, but I have been looked at like an outsider at some events.

A definite drinking problem though that is a coping mechanism to numb current stress and past painful memeories...And why didnt SCI handle that?

It's possible that though I love her, she has some actual psychological issues that obviously have never been properly assessed. Some very traumatic past experiences.

All jokes aside do you just cut your loses in this situation? It's tragic that it's happening.

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Well what are your thoughts on the relationship aspect and if these problems arise from abuses and exposure to things growing up that just cant be fixed? Like I said, she prefers to date outside the SCI circle. Now this may because it's small and everyone knows each others business? She has had 2 long term realtionships with Scientologist's go bad in the past...They should have been able to work out issues better with shared tech communication. I'm guessing anyway.

But most her friends date other sceintologists. Many really like me, but I have been looked at like an outsider at some events. I'm tall though so stand out haha.

A definite drinking problem though that is a coping mechanism to numb current stress and past painful memeories...And why didnt SCI handle that?

It's possible that though I love her, she has some actual psychological issues that obviously have never been properly assessed. Some very traumatic past experiences.

All jokes aside do you just cut your loses in this situation? It's tragic that it's happening.

I dunno. The drinking may be a phase and it likely will pass. While she may not be reaching for Scientology services, she may have a network of friends that she has no desire to lose, and so she could be "under the radar" and do the odd mini course if she's pressured to do some bridge actions. So she and you are both fish out of water in your respective worlds in relation to each other. I would try to interest her in your life outside of Scientology and see if she can make friends with your friends. If she can't and can only relate to Scientologists... you may want to look else where.

Mimsey

 

[TheOriginalBigBlue]

I 'll just make a point that devout Scientology women generally want a guy who can help pay for their Bridge. That's about 400-500k. This is a complicated subject as it is but anybody who intends to get into a relationship with a Scientologists needs to have that conversation. And that's just the money. This stuff consumes a lot of time.

You mention that she isn't very active in it but if she ever intends to go Clear and OT then these finances can eventually be a simmering issue. Also, by the time a Scientologist gets into the OT levels it should be expected that they may become increasingly disappointed if their mate isn't keeping up.

 

[Free to shine]

G'day and welcome.

I can't emphasis enough how much unseen damage can be done to those raised in scientology. Looking sweet on the outside and confused and distressed on the inside and not knowing how to deal with it (as that very situation is against scientology's tenets) is really, really hard.

Yes it can be helped and if your love does truly and totally leave scientology, there is hope of getting that. With a high profile scientology family, unfortunately that is probably not on the cards. Disconnection is real and one of the worst things that can happen within a family, many suffer for years rather than risk it.

There's a good article linked in another thread that may help understand it all a bit more:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?42849-Second-third-plus-gen-Scientologists

Wishing you the very best!

 

[oneonewasaracecar]

This is a really tough situation. You are going to have issues in any relationship, but add Scientology to the mix and you can have real problems, as you've already seen.

Unfortunately, with the amount of information you have already given, there's a chance OSA already knows who you are so the decision may already have been made for you. I hope that's not the case.

The reactions you are seeing are part of the indoctrination. If you read up on the TRs, and PTS SP training they are deeply programmed to react in the way they do. If you've been following all the criticism you'll notice patterns of behavior that are consistently observed, strange and unique to Scientology.

The reality is that her love of you and her indoctrination are probably causing her enormous cognitive dissonance. She is told to think of wogs as unable to communicate, stuck in incidents in past lives and other such things. She can see that you aren't and that is going to be difficult for her to process.

When you criticize Scientology, she is programmed to think that you are a criminal, and at the same time she loves you and knows your not. She is supposed to disconnect from you, but she doesn't want to.

My advice that I am 80% certain of is close the door on the romantic side of the relationship but remain friends and cease criticizing Scientology. The reality is you are probably the best friend she has in the world and she may need you to rescue her one day. It would be difficult for her to leave and she is going to need to have a good friend who she really can trust.

That being said, she doesn't date Scientologists and she isn't that interested in the bridge, so it is hard to tell. My gut tells me that the only way the relationship is going to work easily is if she is if she ditches Scientology and is under the radar with her friends and family.

She won't leave Scientology until she is ready. If you try to push, you may lose her as a friend.

 

[Knows]

Welcome to EXSMB

I am sorry you fell in love with a Scientologist

You need to disconnect from her and never look back

You would be better off with a heroin addict - truly!

You would suffer less. Scientology is multi faceted mind fucking

Scientology fucks with people's beliefs and their ability to make good, sound decisions.

She will be a huge liability and it won't work ever

Walk away - cut your losses and grieve the pain of the loss and be gentle with yourself while healing from the loss

Scientology KILLS and it is dangerous and unhealthy

What happens is people who don't go all the way down the rabbit hole and confront the truth about Scientology - that it is a cruel and inhumane con job of EPIC proportions....they will be like a fly in a poisonous spider web just waiting for the day they get vulnerable with loss and pain....then $ciendollatry will $ell them the $olution and bankrupt them, mind fuck their stable beliefs etc...and shatter their lives. THAT IS A PROMISE.

Sooner or later - everyone gets hurt in Scientology!! EVERYONE!!

RUN AWAY...and never look back.

 

[Enthetan]

Well what are your thoughts on the relationship aspect and if these problems arise from abuses and exposure to things growing up that just cant be fixed? Like I said, she prefers to date outside the SCI circle. Now this may because it's small and everyone knows each others business? She has had 2 long term realtionships with Scientologist's go bad in the past...They should have been able to work out issues better with shared tech communication. I'm guessing anyway.

It's interesting that she prefers to date non-Scientologists. It may be that she's losing attachment with Scientology, but that would make the relationship even more strange, at least over the short term.

Dating relationships inside Scientology can be stranger than you can believe. Keep in mind that every Scientologist keeps every other Scientologist under surveillance. It's like living under Communism in Stalin's time (this analogy is actually a good way to look at your situation). Scientologists, even spouses, are REQUIRED to make reports to the local Scientology "Ethics Officer" (internal security) about any other Scientologist who makes any sort of disloyal statements. If you are a Scientologist and you knew something about somebody, and did NOT report it, and that comes out later, then you are in trouble. It's therefore refreshing to be able to talk freely with somebody, and not be afraid that he will report on you to "ethics".

Now, look at the situation from the girl's perspective. If you get seen as somebody hostile to Scientology, then she MUST disconnect from you. This is why you need to not talk disparagingly about Scientology around her -- it puts her in a VERY awkward situation. If she is told to disconnect from you (because you are seen as a bad influence) then she must comply or risk punishment.

She is currently at risk of herself being labeled a bad influence (a PTS, "potential trouble source") on her family if she hangs out with people hostile to Scientology. In that case, she will be told to cease all contact with all people hostile to Scientology (or even all non-Scientologists) or herself risk expulsion ("suppressive person declare"). In that case, her family and friends will be required to have no further contact with her, nor help her in any way. If she is financially dependent upon her parents, this would be very bad for her.

In summary, if she likes hanging out with you, then you MUST stop negatively mentioning Scientology. You don't need to mention Scientology -- if she's dating non-Scientologists, that means that psychologically, she's 80% out. Don't push it.

 

[The_Fixer]

I guess one thing is for sure.

The church and it's followers will be directing how she conducts herself around you and what expectations there will be upon you.

If the family are big and wealthy followers with high ranking, the pressure will be on them to ensure that she keeps you on a leash of sorts - because they also have to be controlling her leash as well. If you will be with her, the she will be the one directing the show or she risks losing her family and their support.

Isn't it a pity. The ones we are most attracted to tend to be the ones we shouldn't have or can't have.

I understand how you feel, been there done that. Best of luck to you

 

[Enthetan]

and we had an amazing magnetic chemistry from the start. I might add she is the most beautiful girl in the world in my opinion. Super model looks. This only makes it all harder.

In general, beware of girls on the top-right corner of the hot/crazy chart. A girl who is both a Scientologist AND a heavy drinker is likely to be trouble.

[video=youtube;XuI6GTY9eVc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuI6GTY9eVc[/video]

(I'm fortunate that I married a girl in the "unicorn" zone)

 

[Helena Handbasket]

I think you would have had the same problems with her even if she WAS NEVER involved in Scientology. Scientology doesn't cure everything; far from it. I am speaking from experience here -- I did YEARS of official Scientology, the Freezone, and other therapies including psychologists and I'm still messed up (although less than I was). I lost a fabulous BF because I was just incapable then of making any relationship work (and I still miss him after 30 years). In short: Scientology (as well as other things) helped, but cannot fix it all.

Now, look at the situation from the girl's perspective. If you get seen as somebody hostile to Scientology, then she MUST disconnect from you. This is why you need to not talk disparagingly about Scientology around her -- it puts her in a VERY awkward situation. If she is told to disconnect from you (because you are seen as a bad influence) then she must comply or risk punishment.

I doubt that will happen. It sounds like she's disenchanted with Scientology and is already in the process of disconnecting from THEM. Perhaps she would be amenable to some sort of couples therapy.

In any case, good luck to you.

Helena

 

[Enthetan]

I doubt that will happen. It sounds like she's disenchanted with Scientology and is already in the process of disconnecting from THEM.

In which case, he should shut up until SHE starts talking negatively about Scientology. And then just be somebody safe who she can talk to about her doubts and upsets.

 

[WildKat]

I 'll just make a point that devout Scientology women generally want a guy who can help pay for their Bridge. That's about 400-500k. This is a complicated subject as it is but anybody who intends to get into a relationship with a Scientologists needs to have that conversation. And that's just the money. This stuff consumes a lot of time.

You mention that she isn't very active in it but if she ever intends to go Clear and OT then these finances can eventually be a simmering issue. Also, by the time a Scientologist gets into the OT levels it should be expected that they may become increasingly disappointed if their mate isn't keeping up.

My thoughts too. The money is a BIG issue and would only become more so in the future. Also pressure on her to "handle you" the further she goes up the bridge.

For that reason, I would say cut your losses, move on. The heartache you feel now would be nothing compared to if you get married, have kids, and then the cult destroys your family. And they have a way of doing just that.

 

[George Layton]

It's interesting that she prefers to date non-Scientologists. It may be that she's losing attachment with Scientology, but that would make the relationship even more strange, at least over the short term.

Dating relationships inside Scientology can be stranger than you can believe. Keep in mind that every Scientologist keeps every other Scientologist under surveillance. It's like living under Communism in Stalin's time (this analogy is actually a good way to look at your situation). Scientologists, even spouses, are REQUIRED to make reports to the local Scientology "Ethics Officer" (internal security) about any other Scientologist who makes any sort of disloyal statements. If you are a Scientologist and you knew something about somebody, and did NOT report it, and that comes out later, then you are in trouble. It's therefore refreshing to be able to talk freely with somebody, and not be afraid that he will report on you to "ethics".

Now, look at the situation from the girl's perspective. If you get seen as somebody hostile to Scientology, then she MUST disconnect from you. This is why you need to not talk disparagingly about Scientology around her -- it puts her in a VERY awkward situation. If she is told to disconnect from you (because you are seen as a bad influence) then she must comply or risk punishment.

She is currently at risk of herself being labeled a bad influence (a PTS, "potential trouble source") on her family if she hangs out with people hostile to Scientology. In that case, she will be told to cease all contact with all people hostile to Scientology (or even all non-Scientologists) or herself risk expulsion ("suppressive person declare"). In that case, her family and friends will be required to have no further contact with her, nor help her in any way. If she is financially dependent upon her parents, this would be very bad for her.

In summary, if she likes hanging out with you, then you MUST stop negatively mentioning Scientology. You don't need to mention Scientology -- if she's dating non-Scientologists, that means that psychologically, she's 80% out. Don't push it.

Just the fact that you are not interested in scientology may cause red flags with some of her scientology friends or relation. She may have already been going through some feedback from within the group that has led up to her decision.