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Can we really help them?

Mockingbird6

Patron with Honors
I just read Margery Wakefield’s story. It was very depressing. Her case did not get resolved, either in Scientology or in the mental health services. But the story made me realize something I really didn’t like looking at: Scientology says it can handle anything, but it has no handling for those who get into truly unhappy states like this woman, or the people getting kicked out of Flag when they go Type III. Dumping an OT out of Flag is deserting a comrade in need. If there were any handling available that worked, it would surely be done for OT’s, who have already proved they are comrades. This is a direct contradiction to the “We can handle anything” promise. And of course, once the promise is uttered, there start to be these mutterings that sound like, “except…except…except…” And all the “except’s” are chalked up to the faults of the persons being excluded.

I am still of the belief that none of us will make it unless we all do. So we are going to have to be able to help everyone, the mentally ill too, not just the able. Some will say, “They deserve it, they have self-destruct postulates, they’ve done bad things in past lives.” Well, WHO hasn’t?

It was a revelation to me when Margery Wakefield described the terrible pain she was in during her breakdowns. I did not know this was the case. It is almost as though she was being punished for something. I myself have gotten well past the idea that people should be punished for their prior misdeeds, and I sure don’t need to punish the mentally ill.

Is the Freezone capable of handling this woman’s problems? Has anyone else found a way to help the mentally ill? I know that the worse off a person is, the more gently you have to handle them. Would it be too hard on a fragile personality to just get her to name persons that other people "think should be punished" the way she’s being punished, let her do this until she got to the point where she saw that no one needs to be punished like that? Or would this process be too tough at her stage? What other solutions have been found?

Thanks, M6
 

Feral

Rogue male
Good points. The thing that I've discovered through personal experience is that Scientology just doesn't handle the ills it claims to.

Even though it abhors psychiatry and claims to be the 'be all' for mental health Scientologists tend to go more spectacularly insane than the general public when they do spin. I've done baby watch for several as a public and they were pursued by aliens or, in one case about to be assassinated by Prince Charles.

I also suspect that Scientologist have their dormant psychoses triggered through various iffy rundowns, EXDN was one that came to mind that I know caused a lot of spins.

There is nothing very fun about seeing OTVII and VIII completions feeling they are at the edge of their sanity. I've spoken to more than one now we are all out and they feel free to discuss their mental state without the need for hyperbole.
 

GreyWolf

Gold Meritorious Patron
I gotta tell ya, if I had spent all that money and time on the levels and then went to flag for 0t3 and started reading that xenu crap, I woulda gone type 3 all over the place. They woulda had to tie me down with steel ropes.

Respect

Bob
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
I am still of the belief that none of us will make it unless we all do.
Thanks, M6

This may be your major malfunction.

Naturally, you can try to save others as you go along, but, until you save yourself, you're just another drowner standing on somebody's shoulders.

Zinj
 

Mockingbird6

Patron with Honors
The Link

Thanks for posting the link, Zinj. I was unable to find it again right then and I had been kinda stewing about this overnight.

I also understand the feeling that it's an impossible task to help everyone, and the other feeling of "why should we, life is good?" But then I look at what goes on in some places in the world and I know I am just plain lucky to be in as good a situation as I am. The bad things that happened to me as a kid were only "near misses" compared to a lot of people.

When I read Nancy Many's book I was completely perplexed on this subject of freewheeling or type 3 or whatever it is. I would be grateful for any more info about it.
M6
 

NeXTep

Patron with Honors
This may be your major malfunction.

Naturally, you can try to save others as you go along, but, until you save yourself, you're just another drowner standing on somebody's shoulders.

Zinj

Couldn't have said it better Zinj. :thumbsup:
 

HappyGirl

Gold Meritorious Patron
This may be your major malfunction.

Naturally, you can try to save others as you go along, but, until you save yourself, you're just another drowner standing on somebody's shoulders.

Zinj
I am so grateful you posted this, Zinj. You saved me from going down a very dark road. :melodramatic: You made is safe for me to scream out NO!!! First, what does "make it" even mean, exactly, and by whose standards? Society's? Our preachers? Our government? Our opinion leaders? Our friends? Our parents? Our doctors? Anyone and everyone else gets to define what "making it" means? NO!!! Never again!! And we won't "make it" unless everyone else does too? But we all are on our own journeys. No one can walk our path and we can't walk anyone else's. If we all just follow our own bliss we would all be so blissed out it would be heaven on earth. I suppose there are those that get blissed out "saving others," and to them I leave that task. :D
 

He-man

Hero extraordinary
I just read Margery Wakefield’s story. It was very depressing. Her case did not get resolved, either in Scientology or in the mental health services. But the story made me realize something I really didn’t like looking at: Scientology says it can handle anything, but it has no handling for those who get into truly unhappy states like this woman, or the people getting kicked out of Flag when they go Type III. Dumping an OT out of Flag is deserting a comrade in need. If there were any handling available that worked, it would surely be done for OT’s, who have already proved they are comrades. This is a direct contradiction to the “We can handle anything” promise. And of course, once the promise is uttered, there start to be these mutterings that sound like, “except…except…except…” And all the “except’s” are chalked up to the faults of the persons being excluded.

I am still of the belief that none of us will make it unless we all do. So we are going to have to be able to help everyone, the mentally ill too, not just the able. Some will say, “They deserve it, they have self-destruct postulates, they’ve done bad things in past lives.” Well, WHO hasn’t?

It was a revelation to me when Margery Wakefield described the terrible pain she was in during her breakdowns. I did not know this was the case. It is almost as though she was being punished for something. I myself have gotten well past the idea that people should be punished for their prior misdeeds, and I sure don’t need to punish the mentally ill.

Is the Freezone capable of handling this woman’s problems? Has anyone else found a way to help the mentally ill? I know that the worse off a person is, the more gently you have to handle them. Would it be too hard on a fragile personality to just get her to name persons that other people "think should be punished" the way she’s being punished, let her do this until she got to the point where she saw that no one needs to be punished like that? Or would this process be too tough at her stage? What other solutions have been found?

Thanks, M6

Scientology sells itself as a universal solvent. The ultimate cure all.

Newsflash: It isn´t.

Even is some people has gotten help from scientology in varying degrees it just isn´t a universal solvent. Doing the bridge won´t help EVERYONE.

My personal belief is that the people who has gotten long term help from it either suffers from placebo or had a real good auditor who helped by simple listening.

Either that or I missed something I will never get.

The fact that it didn´t work for me(and alot of others) when it should have is proof enough for me.

Can "we" help them? Yes of course! But not with scientology. I know alot of people won´t like me for saying this but mentally ill need PROFESSIONAL help, not scientology! Be a good friend and get them real help.
 

Telepathetic

Gold Meritorious Patron
I am so grateful you posted this, Zinj. You saved me from going down a very dark road. :melodramatic: You made is safe for me to scream out NO!!! First, what does "make it" even mean, exactly, and by whose standards? Society's? Our preachers? Our government? Our opinion leaders? Our friends? Our parents? Our doctors? Anyone and everyone else gets to define what "making it" means? NO!!! Never again!! And we won't "make it" unless everyone else does too? But we all are on our own journeys. No one can walk our path and we can't walk anyone else's. If we all just follow our own bliss we would all be so blissed out it would be heaven on earth. I suppose there are those that get blissed out "saving others," and to them I leave that task. :D

I was just about to make a comment on this same point but your comments here are sufficent enough. I could not agree with you more.

TP
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
I am so grateful you posted this, Zinj. You saved me from going down a very dark road. :melodramatic: You made is safe for me to scream out NO!!! First, what does "make it" even mean, exactly, and by whose standards? Society's? Our preachers? Our government? Our opinion leaders? Our friends? Our parents? Our doctors? Anyone and everyone else gets to define what "making it" means? NO!!! Never again!! And we won't "make it" unless everyone else does too? But we all are on our own journeys. No one can walk our path and we can't walk anyone else's. If we all just follow our own bliss we would all be so blissed out it would be heaven on earth. I suppose there are those that get blissed out "saving others," and to them I leave that task. :D

I'm saving this post to my favourites. So true. :)
 

Mockingbird6

Patron with Honors
I'm not that altruistic, actually

I am so grateful you posted this, Zinj. You saved me from going down a very dark road. :melodramatic: You made is safe for me to scream out NO!!! First, what does "make it" even mean, exactly, and by whose standards? Society's? Our preachers? Our government? Our opinion leaders? Our friends? Our parents? Our doctors? Anyone and everyone else gets to define what "making it" means? NO!!! Never again!! And we won't "make it" unless everyone else does too? But we all are on our own journeys. No one can walk our path and we can't walk anyone else's. If we all just follow our own bliss we would all be so blissed out it would be heaven on earth. I suppose there are those that get blissed out "saving others," and to them I leave that task. :D

Hi Happy Girl,
Actually, the way I see it, if I have a beautiful house and car and I am surrounded by those who have tarpaper shacks and donkeys, I either have to hire a guard or I'll lose my stuff. For example, I saw a photo where the employees of Microsoft who live in luxury in India are surrounded by a high wall and guards, and just beyond the wall is the most abject misery. You can bet those guards have weapons!

Second, if I go my happy way and leave guys around with the power and the willingness to blow up everything with an atom bomb, I may not have an easy time maintaining my home, family, country.

I am not altogether heartless, though, and I do feel empathy toward those who are not having an easy time on this planet. But I understand the upset of those who were told they had to save others first and themselves last, no matter what religion it was.

But the second reason above is the most telling for me. I personally believe that we have repeatedly been sitting there playing with our marbles when someone comes along and smashes or steals the marbles and kicks us in the teeth. So we go somewhere else to live happily again. And then the same guy, who just can't seem to get along without us, shows up and starts ruining the game again.

As far as working on myself is concerned, I am all for it. I believe a group is only as strong as the sum of its individuals and I have never understood the orgs failing to get all their staff up the bridge.

Bliss to all, M6
 
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