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CAN WE TALK ABOUT PTS TECH?

AnonKat

Crusader
The "S & D" process is an important scientological procedure which
addresses an individual's particular vulnerability to another's
malicious or supposedly malicious intentions. It is indicated when a
participant repeatedly loses the acknowledged gains they have already
had from processing, or behaves in a highly unreliable manner. ("S &
D," stands for "search and discovery")

This is the story of the development of that procedure, with some
profound insights, by John McMaster, and is reprinted from The Heretic,
Issue X. (See "Bon Voyage to John McMaster" in the Free Spirit 90.) -
Hank Levin:

***

I would like to discuss the development of S & D for the
implications it had in the subsequent development of scientology
technology. Had it not been designed the way it was, things might have
gone a little differently.

Late summer, 1965. The mesage read: "Ron wants you to bring six of
your best review auditors to his office at quarter past five today, and
would you get it all organized?" When we were all there, he said that
he'd gotten us there for a specific reason, and the reason was to evolve
a particular process which he wanted to call "Search and Discovery."

Now, in the processing that we were doing then, which was mainly
the power processes and power plus, we were getting some cases moving
magnificently fast, others sort of medium, and some cases moving very
slowly.

He said that there must be some factor that was sort of impinging
on these cases that were moving slowly, and this process was to be
called Search and Discovery simply because it was to search for that
which was impinging on the slow gain case and the no case gain, to
search for that and then discover it.

And he wanted us to evolve a technology whereby this could be done
effectively.

We got together and decided that it would be a good idea to have a
listing process to start off with on the search side of it, and then we
would discover an item.

We decided the listing question would be sonething along the lines
of "Who or what is causing difficulty?"

We made a list and then we'd get whatever the item was, and then
put the item into a Represent ("Who or what would item represent?"), and
then list away. If the item on the first list had been a person, one
blew the charge off that person by getting the Represent out of it.

And on this "Who or what would item represent?" the PC invariably
found a "What" in relation to his own behaviour or his own conditions of
existence that got restimulated by the actions of the other person and
caused what appeared to be the symptoms of a "Potential Trouble Source,"
as it was later called.

It was something that the person had in his own makeup, his own
behaviour pattern, his own mental mass, that had a sort of magnetism for
the behaviour of a certain person.

The other person did something, and this particular thing, in the
whole pattern of the PC, would cause an upset and prevent the PC from
looking as clearly as he or she might look, from wanting to win, from
doing whatever one was expecting the person to do.

So we ran this listing process and the represent process, and we
got what we got, and took the results to Hubbard. And as I said,
invariably it was a "What". And you can't declare a "What" that exists
in the magnetic field of the PC to be a suppressive person.

There was a tremendous improvement in the PCs because they found
out that in actual fact, when they were so-called "being the effect" or
"being suppressed" by someone else, it was because of themselves and
something that they had that had compelled them to become the effect of
the other person's behaviour.

But there was another thing some of them found out. Some people
found out that in their behaviour patterns they did things and behaved
in such a way that they compelled the other person to commit suppressive
acts towards them.

For instance, here's me. And, not during the auditing session but
in my everyday life, I am doing something with a regularity that compels
another, who also has something in his magnetic field that my behaviour
restimulates, to be suppressive towards me, and I am in actual fact
causing it.

So there were two aspects that people began to find in this
auditing:

1) they had something in their own space that got restimulated by
another person's behaviour, and when they found that and blew it, they
no longer were the effect of that person's behaviour; and

2) they were unknowingly doing something that was compelling the
other person to act suppressively towards them.

And everyone run on this process, with the listing and the
represent, had far more case gain than is gotten from running up to the
ethics officer and disconnecting from a so called suppressive person.

We were really thrilled, because these people, immediately after
having had this kind of S & D process run on them, moved magnificently
on the power processes.

We took the results to Hubbard, and he kind of hemmed and hawed and
told us it was a little bit long-winded and we could do it faster
another way. Eventually he changed the thing down to: "Who is
suppressing you?", and it had to be a person. And when that person was
spotted, the PC had to go to the ethics officer with the folder.

The ethics officer then had to find out whether the person would
"handle or disconnect", and in most cases the ethics officer decided of
his or her volition that the person was incapable of handling and
compelled the person to disconnect.

Now if you look at the history of scientology from that point
onward, late summer-autumn of 1965, what was happening?

Suppressive people were becoming a reality and the ethics officer
was becoming an absolute necessity in any organization in order to
safeguard your technololgy.

Well, nothing can safeguard technology better than perfect
auditing. If you take the process and audit it perfectly, your
technology is established.

Having this via of darting around the corner to the ethics officer
just gives the auditor an out. If he can't quite manage the PC or he
can't quite manage the process, or he can!t quite manage putting the two
together, he always knows he can say "Well it's OK; if I can't quite
manage this then it'll become an ethics matter."

When a person was not moving as quickly as the person ought to be
moving, they then had to have this S & D process, and then automatically
it went onto ethics lines.

So then standard technology was very much involved with ethics; you
couldn't have standard technology without an ethics officer to handle
these particular situations. So the suppressive person became a reality
and the ethics officer became an absolute necessity in order to have the
tech working and standard.

So now the PC disconnects from this "Who" the ethics offlcer
regards as a suppressive person, and yet still intact is the "What" that
predisposed the suppression in the first place. So the PC is still
vulnerable to suppression.

He disconnects, has a bit of relief, and maybe until the end of
that auditing intensive the PC is free from the impact of the other.
But within the makeup of the person, that which predisposes the PC to
being suppressed is untouched.

And the overt act of disconnecting from another, blaming another
for one's own inadequacy, and the fact that one has this predisposition
towards suppression, compounds the felony.

The felony of whatever one has done that makes one vulnerable or
predisposed is still there, and that is compounded by the disconnection,
which creates a heavy ARC break perhaps not only with the person being
disconnected from, but with all the people to whom that person is
connected.

So now you have the compounded felony. That thing which had come
into restimulation in the auditing that should have been run out right
there and then, is now being covered over aby another overt act, the act
of disvconnection. And what does that do? It causes the prolongation
of that condition which predisposed the PC to suppression in the first
place.

S & Ds, such as they are run now, do not give permanent relief or
release from anything. What they do is prolong the agony of potential
suppression. So far from setting a person freer, they are in actual
fact burying,and therefore prolonging the condition that predisposes and
precipitates the suppression.

This "standard technology" is in actual fact ruining the whole
potential of our aims and goals and purposes, because it is pressing out
of sight that which we were fortunate enough to have surface, that thing
that is predisposing the PC to feeling suppressed.

It is a very healthy sign when someone you are auditing suddenly
has problems. So they say they're not making gains. So what? This
indicates to you that something is in restimulation that prevents them
from making gains and achieving their goals. This means you've got
something right there and then, right at the surface, ready to be
handled.

So you can do an S & D, but I suggest that you do it the way we did
it originally, before it was changed to a "Who?" You might get this
thing which has come into restimuation on the first listing, in which
case it's gone. If you have to put it into a Represent list, well,
you'll get a whole lot there.

Now, I didn't do this at the time, but it seems to me that you
could then put in a third question if you do a represent out to another
item and you still haven't blown everything.

You could say, "Now, how do you use so-and-so to make yourself
vulnerable to suppression?", or a question of that nature. Then you
have removed the predisposition to the suppression because that which
was in the magnetic field of the PC that enabled the suppression to
happen will never be there again, unless the PC puts it back. But it
won't be the same one; it'll be another one.

So I hope this sheds a little light on the way and S & D could be
run that could give gain for all time, rather than this temporary relief
by committing an overt act on a fellow being on this planet at the same
time as one is. It's not always such; sometimes one disconnects from
people out of another time.

However, this is just a vast Q & A with reality. The reality is
that somewhere in one's makeup is this predisposition to be suppressed,
and when it is precipitatedd one behaves like a potential trouble
source. So, get out what's in restimulation and remove completely and
forever the chances of being suppressed in that particular way.

That is how we started out on Search and Discovery, and how I feel
it could be done even now. It's not too late, for Heaven's sake! And
we could get in, and do the job properly.

***

This is a whole lot of text to describe that one should dump those who are cramping your style.
 

thetanic

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thank you VERY MUCH for those Mayo links. That was very helpful and thought provoking. :)

I was up late watching them myself, felt a lot of stuff kind of rolling gently out of my space. :)

He has a really nice presence in that video. I'd never seen a close-up of him speaking before, I don't think.
 

olska

Silver Meritorious Patron
What if they just have to find the "right" kind of people who are going to take the bait, hook, line, sinker and fishing pole. :omg:

You are right on with that insight. If you look carefully at scientology politices and even the "tech" on who is qualified and who is NOT to receive scientology services, you will find that a rather long list of "types" are disqualified right off the bat -- the PTS A-J, the PTS types I, II, and III until "handled," the "illegal PCs" who've been touched by the psyches or done certain drugs, etc. etc.

By process of elimination, you then come down to the "right" kind of people who are likely to take the bait and to not cause trouble once hooked.

It's a little like choosing a bride in some other cults or cultures -- she must be a virgin, come from a certain kind of family, be appropriately submissive, etc. Gets the divorcees, whores and feminist fanatics out of the way immediately.

A confidence game designed with "rules" to protect itself. Clever.

I was ALMOST the cult's dream candidate: not a druggie, no psyche history, had a little money, able bodied and healthy. Just a little bit too old, with a little too much common sense and life experience to be blind to all the "outpoints."
 

Kookaburra

Gold Meritorious Patron
The Story of S&D John Mc Master

I would like to discuss the development of S&D for the implications it had in the subsequent development of scientogy technology. Had it not been designed the way it was, things might have gone a little differently.

Late summer 1965. The message read: Ron wants you to bring six of your best review auditors to his office at 5.15 pm today and would you get it all organised? When we were all there, he said that he had gotten us there for a specific reason, and the reason was to evolve a particular process which he wanted to call "Search and Discovery."

Now, in the processing that we were doing then, which was mainly the power processes and power plus, we were getting some cases moving magnificently fast, others sort of medium, and some cases moving very slowly.

He said there be some factor that was sort of impinging on these cases that were moving slowly, and this process was to be called Search and Discovery simply because it was to search for that which was impinging on the slow gain case and the no case gain, to search for this and then discover it.

And he wanted us to evolve a technology whereby this could be done
effectively.

Our Job

We got together and decided that it would be a good idea to have a listing
process to start off with on the search side of it, and then we would
discover an item.

We decided the listing question would be something along the lines of :"
Who or what is causing difficulty?":

We made a list and then we'd get whatever the item was, and then put the
item into a Represent (Who or what would the item represent), and then list away. If the item on the first list had been a person, one blew the charge off that person by getting the Represent our of it.

And on this "Who or what would item represent?" The PC invariably found a "What" in relation to his own behaviour or his own conditions of existence that got restimulated by the actions of the other person and caused what appeared to be the symptons of a "Potential Trouble Scource" as it was later called.

It was something the person had in his own makeup, his own behaviour
pattern, his own mental mass, that had a sort of magnetism for the behaviour of a certain person.

The other person did something, and this particular thing, in the whole
pattern of the PC, would cause an upset and prevent the PC from looking as clearly as he or she might look, from wanting to win, from doing whatever one was expecting the person to do.



Our Results

So we ran this listing process and the represent process, and we got what
we got , and took the results to Hubbard. And as I said, invariably it was a "What". And you cant declare a "What" that exists in the magnetic field of the PC to be a supressive person. There was a tremendous improvment in the PCs because they found out that in actual fact when they were so-called "being the effect" or "being supressed" by some one else it was because of themselves and something that they had that had compelled them to become the effect of the other persons behaviour.

But there there was another thing some of them found out. Some people found out that in their behaviour patterns they did things and behaved in such a way that they compelled the other person to commit suppressive acts towards them.

For instance , here's me. And, not during the auditing session but in my
every day life, I am doing something with a regularity that compelles another, who also has something in his magnetic field that my behaviour restimulates, to be suppressive towards me, and I am in actual fact causing it.

So there were two aspects that people began to find in this auditing:

1) they had something in their own space that got restimulated by another persons behaviour, and when they found that and blew it , they were no longer the effect of that persons behaviour, and

2) they were unknowingly doing something that was compelling the other
person to act suppressively toward them.

And everyone run on this process, with the listing and the represent, had
far more gain than is gotten from running up to the ethics officer and
disconnecting from a so called suppressive person.

We were really thrilled, because these people immediately after having had this kind of S&D process run on them , moved magnificently on the power processes.

Ron’s Response

We took the results to Hubbard, and he kind of hemmed and hawed and told us it was a little bit long winded and we could do it faster another
way. Eventually he changed the thing down to:"Who is suppressing you?", and it had to be a person. And when that person was spotted the PC had to go to the ethics officer with the folder.

The ethics officer then had to find out wether the person would "handle or disconnect" and in most cases the ethics officer decided of his or her own volition that the person was incapable of handling and compelled the person to disconnect.

Now if you look at the history of scientology from that point onward, late
summer-autumn of 1965, what was happening?

Suppressive people were becoming a reality and the ethics officer was
becoming an absolute necessity in any organization in order to safeguard
your technology.

Well nothing can safeguard technology better than perfect auditing. If you take the process and audit it perfectly, your technology is established. Having this via of darting around the corner to the ethics officer just gives the auditor an out. If he can't quite manage the PC or he can't quite manage the process, or he can't quite manage putting the two together, he always knows he can say"Well its OK; if I cant quite manage this then it becomes an ethics matter."

When a person was not moving as quickly as the person ought to be moving, they then had to have this S&D process, and then automatically it went onto ethics lines.

So then standard technology was very much involved with ethics; you
couldn't have standard technology without an ethics officer to handle these particular situations. So the supressive person became a reality and the ethics officer became an absolute necessity in order to have the tech working and standard.

The Result

So now the PC disconnects from this "Who"the ethics officer regards as a
suppressive person and yet still intact is the "What" that predisposed the
suppression in the first place. So the PC is still vunlerable to supression.

He disconnects, has a bit of relief, and mabye until the end of that
auditing intensive the PC is free from the impact of that other.But within
the makeup of that person, that which predisposes the PC to being supressed is untouched.

And the overt act of disconnecting from another, blaming another for ones own inadequacy, and the fact that one has this predisposition towards supression, compounds the felony.

The felony of whatever one has done that makes one vulnerable or
predisposed is still there, and that is compounded by the disconnection, which creates a heavy ARC break perhaps not only with the person being disconnected from, but with all the people to whom that person is connected.

So now you have the compounded felony. That auditing that should have been run out right there and then, is now being covered over by another overt act, the act of disconnection. And what does that do? It causes the
prolongation of that condition which predisposed the PC to supression in the first place.

S&Ds, such as they are run now, do not give the permenant relief or release from anything. What they do is prolong the agony of potential supression. So far from setting a person freer, they are in actual fact burying, and therefore prolonging the condition that predisposes and precipitates the supression.

This "standard technology" is in actual fact ruining the whole potential of
our aims and goals and purposes, because it is pressing out of sight that
which we were fortunate enough to have surface, that thing that is
predisposing the PC to feeling suppressed.


Suggested Procedure

It is a very healthy sign when some one you are auditing suddenly has
problems. So they say they're not making gains. So what? This indicates to you that something is in restimulation that prevents them from making gains and achieving their goals. This means you've got something right there and then, right at the surface, ready to be handled.

So you can do an S&D, but I suggest that you do it the way we did it
originally, before it was changed to a "Who" You might get this thing which has come into restimulation on the first listing, in which case it's gone.If you have to put it into a Represent list, well you'll get a whole lot there.

Now I didn't do this at the time, but it seems to me that you could then
put in a third question if you do a represent out to another item and you still haven't blown everything.

You could say "Now how do you use so and so to make yourself vulnerable to supression?" or a question of that nature. Then you have removed the predisposition to the suppression because that which was in the magnetic field of the PC that enabled the suppression to happen will never be there again, unless thePC puts it back. But it won't be the same one; it'll be another one.

So I hope this sheds a little light on the way an S&D could be run that
could give gain for all time, rather than this temporary relief by
committing an overt act on a fellow being on this planet at the same time
one is. It's not always such; sometimes one disconnects people out of
another time.

The Reality

However, this is just a vast Q&A with reality. The reality is that
somewhere in one's makeup is this predisposition to be suppressed, and when it is precipitated one behaves like a potential trouble scource. So, get out what's in restimulation and remove completly and forever the chances of being suppressed in that particular way.

That is how we started out on Search and Discovery, and how I feel it could be done even now. It's not too late, for Heavens sake! and we could get in and do the job properly.



Reprinted from The Free Spirit Dec 1990 Vol vii issue 4.

Absolutely brilliant article. Some genuine PTS/SP tech. Thank-you Carmello.

Immortal, this thread is expanding faster than I am reading, so I will just answer your original post and hope I'm not repeating what anyone else has said.

I trained on the PTS/SP course at Flag in the 70's. Tech was standard back then. Disconnection was cancelled since the late 60's. Every PTS sit had to be handled. So the tools were good roads, good weather if the person was being horrifically antagonistic, otherwise just Scn basics like ARC, granting of beingness, 2WC to find out what the person's concerns were, then addressing them with good communication rather than flying off the handle and getting into a fight, and so on. Keeping in mind always that the other person also had their fundamental rights to their own beliefs and opinions and the Scientologist would of course support that. After all, that is part of the Creed of the Church which we all subscibed to, right? I did all of the PTS handlings in my org, for staff, public and GO, for years. Never had one go wrong. Every situation resolved.

Then along came DM. He ordered the disconnection policy to be re-instated, on the excuse that some situations could not be handled with standard PTS/SP tech. Furthermore, the EO could decide to force someone to disconnect. Pretty scary stuff.

This change can be found in a PL 1983. It was written by Robert Vaughn Young (LRH's ghost writer) on the orders of David Miscavige. Basicly it invalidates all previous tech and gives the EO a HUMONGOUS BIG STICK to bash people into submission by ordering their families to be split up. There is absolutely no other purpose to it. I never saw it used once during the '80s, except where there was an official SP declare. Even that didn't sit right with me. People who get declared are often not SPs. That also is just a big stick. We still used standard tech in the 80s. I believe disconnection started to be used in the '90s. (I was gone by that time)

In B4 Veda: The original disconnection was a product of LRH in the '60s. So it did originate there. LRH was not perfect, and did institute many of the control mechanisms in Scientology as a dramatisation of his own paranoia which he never did get handled.

While we are sort of close to the topic, the ethics codes are another control mechanism. It is stated (paraphrased, my books went into the fire), the purpose of ethics is to remove counter intention, and once that is done, to remove other intention. CI to what? To Scientology, of course. Scientology Ethics has not one thing to do with right and wrong, or with morality. It is 100% designed to get everyone backing Scientology and pushing in the same direction. There is nothing in the ethics codes to decide whether the same direction is a correct direction. Only a different direction. So a person is considered out ethics and can be punished severely if he does not agree with the current group think. Talk about enforced bank agreement! And that is exactly what we have in Scientology today.

Try pointing that out to management and see what happens. :D

I've even heard that there is a current sec check question "Do you have disagreement with DM?" or some such. Says it all, doesn't it?

Hope this sheds some light on Scientology "control" for you. Gee, if we keep this up, you'll start reading on that staff qual question, "Do you have a button on control?" :coolwink:
 

IMMORTAL

Patron Meritorious
I was up late watching them myself, felt a lot of stuff kind of rolling gently out of my space. :)

He has a really nice presence in that video. I'd never seen a close-up of him speaking before, I don't think.

I've never seen him speaking before. I was impressed with what he was saying. :)
 

IMMORTAL

Patron Meritorious
Absolutely brilliant article. Some genuine PTS/SP tech. Thank-you Carmello.

Immortal, this thread is expanding faster than I am reading, so I will just answer your original post and hope I'm not repeating what anyone else has said.

I trained on the PTS/SP course at Flag in the 70's. Tech was standard back then. Disconnection was cancelled since the late 60's. Every PTS sit had to be handled. So the tools were good roads, good weather if the person was being horrifically antagonistic, otherwise just Scn basics like ARC, granting of beingness, 2WC to find out what the person's concerns were, then addressing them with good communication rather than flying off the handle and getting into a fight, and so on. Keeping in mind always that the other person also had their fundamental rights to their own beliefs and opinions and the Scientologist would of course support that. After all, that is part of the Creed of the Church which we all subscibed to, right? I did all of the PTS handlings in my org, for staff, public and GO, for years. Never had one go wrong. Every situation resolved.

Then along came DM. He ordered the disconnection policy to be re-instated, on the excuse that some situations could not be handled with standard PTS/SP tech. Furthermore, the EO could decide to force someone to disconnect. Pretty scary stuff.

This change can be found in a PL 1983. It was written by Robert Vaughn Young (LRH's ghost writer) on the orders of David Miscavige. Basicly it invalidates all previous tech and gives the EO a HUMONGOUS BIG STICK to bash people into submission by ordering their families to be split up. There is absolutely no other purpose to it. I never saw it used once during the '80s, except where there was an official SP declare. Even that didn't sit right with me. People who get declared are often not SPs. That also is just a big stick. We still used standard tech in the 80s. I believe disconnection started to be used in the '90s. (I was gone by that time)

In B4 Veda: The original disconnection was a product of LRH in the '60s. So it did originate there. LRH was not perfect, and did institute many of the control mechanisms in Scientology as a dramatisation of his own paranoia which he never did get handled.

While we are sort of close to the topic, the ethics codes are another control mechanism. It is stated (paraphrased, my books went into the fire), the purpose of ethics is to remove counter intention, and once that is done, to remove other intention. CI to what? To Scientology, of course. Scientology Ethics has not one thing to do with right and wrong, or with morality. It is 100% designed to get everyone backing Scientology and pushing in the same direction. There is nothing in the ethics codes to decide whether the same direction is a correct direction. Only a different direction. So a person is considered out ethics and can be punished severely if he does not agree with the current group think. Talk about enforced bank agreement! And that is exactly what we have in Scientology today.

Try pointing that out to management and see what happens. :D

I've even heard that there is a current sec check question "Do you have disagreement with DM?" or some such. Says it all, doesn't it?

Hope this sheds some light on Scientology "control" for you. Gee, if we keep this up, you'll start reading on that staff qual question, "Do you have a button on control?" :coolwink:


I found this to be a very comprehensive post and really helped me understand it so much better. The history of it, the progression of it and oh, the alteration of it to what it is today.....a control mechanism just as I was beginning to suspect when this started to crack in my universe.

So much of what you say is what was hard for me to reconcile especially in regards to ethics removing the counter intention from the environment. The greatest good for the greatest number ALWAYS seemed to end up in favor of the 3rd and 4th Dynamics. I had a hard time trying to convince any EO or MAA that they were my dynamics. Mine, not Scientology's.

I really appreciate your post. Oh and you won't have to worry about me ever reading on that staff qual question ever again. :)
 

IMMORTAL

Patron Meritorious
You are right on with that insight. If you look carefully at scientology politices and even the "tech" on who is qualified and who is NOT to receive scientology services, you will find that a rather long list of "types" are disqualified right off the bat -- the PTS A-J, the PTS types I, II, and III until "handled," the "illegal PCs" who've been touched by the psyches or done certain drugs, etc. etc.

By process of elimination, you then come down to the "right" kind of people who are likely to take the bait and to not cause trouble once hooked.

It's a little like choosing a bride in some other cults or cultures -- she must be a virgin, come from a certain kind of family, be appropriately submissive, etc. Gets the divorcees, whores and feminist fanatics out of the way immediately.

A confidence game designed with "rules" to protect itself. Clever.

I was ALMOST the cult's dream candidate: not a druggie, no psyche history, had a little money, able bodied and healthy. Just a little bit too old, with a little too much common sense and life experience to be blind to all the "outpoints."

Well, for me it was a hard way to learn a lesson. I hope I learnt it well!!!:blush:
 

paul.spiritualquest

Patron with Honors
PENDULUM when leaving

Well, I'm very happy you have found a way to deal with this. I watched the Mayo videos. I have not seen the later Mayo story. I've been sheltered and all that you know. :duh:

Apply the principle of the pendulum. Basically a pendulum needs to go to the extreme opposite, then back but less than to original position, then to the extreme but less as the fist extreme, a few times, till it finds it´s gravity balance.

It´s completely OK, to rant and NATTER and be CRITICAL in your mind, and with other people.

In the end, that way you will walk faster through the process and find your OWN balance. :eyeroll:

What helped me most is:

1. Watching or reading stories of close people to LRH, ex-staffers, even his son´s story. Mayo´s is a good one, cause he is HONEST, he gave his life to the tech, and LRH and got payed back the way it did, cause he was a serious competition to a monopoly. On another link he explains his participation on the creation of NOTs, also an interesting view for you.

2. Watching Scientology from an external paradigm: Covey, Dr. Newton, Tolle.

3. Posting and reading a lot on the subject, but from people involved, and having diverse experiences, good, bad ones. Post as much as you can, also with any of your ideas on the tech, and let people controvert you, even attack you, is a good process to go through.

This three things will help you a lot to relativize the "truths" of Scientology, and handpick what you like or not.

It is a natural process to ask oneself, as the paradigm gets cracked, what was true, what not?
 

paul.spiritualquest

Patron with Honors
Unlearning

There is something which is deeply implanted in the Scientology paradigm:

LEARNING.

In the Scientology paradigm-mindset, you have to LEARN, LEARN, LEARN, there is a vast amount of unsurmountable data to be learned, which on the other hand, have a lot of chaff.

There is never the talk of UNLEARNING. Unlearning, is never used in Scientology, not even mentioned, as it is something to ve avoided.

What I had to learn being OUT, was to LEARN to UNLEARN, if you get what I mean?
 

paul.spiritualquest

Patron with Honors
On Mayo

Mayo is, was a great guy.

A GREAT spirit.

He did a lot for the tech, like McMasters, and others around this board. You will see that many of the developments were not LRH, such as study tech, which was completely kidnapped by LRH from a couple who developed it, listing which was developed by Alan Walters, who posted here, and is the developer of Knowledgism, BPC which was original Mystic´s idea, another poster on this board. Read all the Apollo thread, and you will get a lot of insight.

Mayo was a real threat to LRH´s power back then. Imagine LRH had chosen Mayo over DM (he didn´t choose DM, but just to speculate), what would have happened? On the other hand, why would LRH rather keep guys like DM on board, and let guys like Brent Corydon, Galusha, or Mayo leave... that tells also a lot.

Mayo speaks from the HEART on that video, that is why it is so impinging. :yes:
 

JBTrendy

Patron with Honors
Unlearn

There is something which is deeply implanted in the Scientology paradigm:

LEARNING.

In the Scientology paradigm-mindset, you have to LEARN, LEARN, LEARN, there is a vast amount of unsurmountable data to be learned, which on the other hand, have a lot of chaff.

There is never the talk of UNLEARNING. Unlearning, is never used in Scientology, not even mentioned, as it is something to ve avoided.

What I had to learn being OUT, was to LEARN to UNLEARN, if you get what I mean?

Thanks for what you posted here on this thread that was very enlightfull to me. Still the unlearned process concept was well covered in the student hat if I remember it well. At least I got that out of it.

All2U
 

paul.spiritualquest

Patron with Honors
Thanks for what you posted here on this thread that was very enlightfull to me. Still the unlearned process concept was well covered in the student hat if I remember it well. At least I got that out of it.

All2U

Great you did. I never got that out of it. :no: On which part? If you remember more or less where, or on which reference. Sometimes it is also hard for me, to remember where, or what. I´m curious.
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Nice post.

Mayo is, was a great guy.

A GREAT spirit.

He did a lot for the tech, like McMasters, and others around this board. You will see that many of the developments were not LRH, such as study tech, which was completely kidnapped by LRH from a couple who developed it, listing which was developed by Alan Walters, who posted here, and is the developer of Knowledgism, BPC which was original Mystic´s idea, another poster on this board. Read all the Apollo thread, and you will get a lot of insight.

Mayo was a real threat to LRH´s power back then. Imagine LRH had chosen Mayo over DM (he didn´t choose DM, but just to speculate), what would have happened? On the other hand, why would LRH rather keep guys like DM on board, and let guys like Brent Corydon, Galusha, or Mayo leave... that tells also a lot.

Mayo speaks from the HEART on that video, that is why it is so impinging. :yes:

I agree fully on Mayo. I saw him speak once or twice in the 1970's, I believe there was an event at the Hollywood Paladium in 1971 where he spoke. He was not the most dynamic speaker in the world but his ability to speak from the heart was always there, just a super sincere being and with an excellent grasp of Hubbard's technology. On those tapes on the internet, he was a better speaker than he was at the Palladium. His timing was better and he had that little impish smile from time to time which I don't believe he had in the early 70's. His speaking ability must have improved during the years he was runing the AAC. Yes, the Corydons, the Ken Urquharts, the Alan Walters, the Galusha's, the Mayo's, etc. Despite decades of extremely high stats, they were tossed aside like a pair of worn out socks. Lesser rank and file guys such as myself were dismissed as insane, incompetent and DB's. These exact words were literally read to me by Mike Mauer, a 19 year old Sea Org officer who read me these evaluations of who and what I was directly from Sea Org policy, just before I was ready to leave the Apollo for the airport to go home.

While on the Apollo, I encountered one of the most insane policies that exists on this planet and it is official Sea Org Policy. I saw the total and complete insanity of their policy back in 1973 and I knew then that LRH had written it. When they would not repost me on the Apollo, I offered to return to my old job at CCLA in Treasury Division. What could be a more optimum resolltion or handling for me? I was fully hatted in Treasury and knew CCLA treasury completely and had a two year record there as the best Treasury person that they ever had. My request was denied by Maria Starkey, the Apollo personnel officer. She said it was against LRH policy for someone to fail at a higher Org and then return to a lower Org. As was my right, I demanded to see the policy and Starkey kicked me out of her office. At that point I insisted a routing form be started to route me out of the Sea Org. On this cycle, I was 100% correct and LRH's policy was totally wrong and 100% insane and I was not even allowed to read it. Demanding to be routed out with no comm lag right after that incident was one of the greatest moments in my life as far as me standing up to evil and insanity. Had I just put my tail between my legs and gone back on the deck force, the way Starkey wanted, my whole life would have been a failure. By doing what I did at that instant in time, when I had to make a choice, I was able to salvage a large part of my life; though scarred and damaged I was able to live some semblance of a meaningful life.

I went to work for my Dad and returned to CCLA about a month later, to make arrangements on handling my debt. Everybody wanted me back on staff in Treasury including Yvonne. She said, she could write a requiest up lines to have me reinstated which she guaranteed 100% could be done. I told her that I had already committed to working with my Dad and I could not let him down now and she understood and accepted that with no argument. That follow up scene back at CC showed Ron had written an insane policy!
Lakey
 
Last edited:

FoTi

Crusader
I agree fully on Mayo. I saw him speak once or twice in the 1970's, I believe there was an event at the Hollywood Paladium in 1971 where he spoke. He was not the most dynamic speaker in the world but his ability to speak from the heart was always there, just a super sincere being and with an excellent grasp of Hubbard's technology. On those tapes on the internet, he was a better speaker than he was at the Palladium. His timing was better and he had that little impish smile from time to time which I don't believe he had in the early 70's. His speaking ability must have improved during the years he was runing the AAC. Yes, the Corydons, the Ken Urquharts, the Alan Walters, the Galusha's, the Mayo's, etc. Despite decades of extremely high stats, they were tossed aside like a pair of worn out socks. Lesser rank and file guys such as myself were dismissed as insane, incompetent and DB's. These exact words were literally read to me by Mike Mauer, a 19 year old Sea Org officer who read me these evaluations of who and what I was directly from Sea Org policy, just before I was ready to leave the Apollo for the airport to go home.

While on the Apollo, I encountered one of the most insane policies that exists on this planet and it is official Sea Org Policy. I saw the total and complete insanity of their policy back in 1973 and I knew then that LRH had written it. When they would not repost me on the Apollo, I offered to return to my old job at CCLA in Treasury Division. What could be a more optimum resolltion or handling for me? I was fully hatted in Treasury and knew CCLA treasury completely and had a two year record there as the best Treasury person that had ever had. My request was denied by Maria Starkey, the Apollo personnel officer. She said it was against LRH policy for someone to fail at a higher Org and then return to a lower Org. As was my right, I demanded to see the policy and Starkey kicked me out of her office. At that point I insisted a routing form be started to route me out of the Sea Org. On this cycle, I was 100% correct and LRH's policy was totally wrong and 100% insane and I was not even allowed to read it. Demanding to be routed out with no comm lag right after that incident was one of the greatest moments in my life as far as me standing up to evil and insanity. Had I just put my tail between my legs and gone back on the deck force, the way Starkey wanted, my whole life would have been a failure. By doing what I did at that instant in time, when I had to make a choice, I was able to salvage a large part of my life; though scarred and damaged I was able to live some semblance of a meaningful life.

I went to work for my Dad and returned to CCLA about a month later, to make arrangements on handling my debt. Everybody wanted me back on staff in Treasury including Yvonne. She said, she could write a requiest up lines to have me reinstated which she guaranteed 100% could be done. I told her that I had already committed to working with my Dad and I could not let him down now and she understood and accepted that with no argument. That follow up scene back at CC showed Ron had written an insane policy!
Lakey

Did you ever actually see the policy?
 
the Corydons, the Ken Urquharts, the Alan Walters, the Galusha's, the Mayo's, etc. Despite decades of extremely high stats, they were tossed aside like a pair of worn out socks. Lesser rank and file guys such as myself were dismissed as insane, incompetent and DB's.

I guess I know where to find good people, just look for Sea Org cast offs.
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
No.

Did you ever actually see the policy?

No, I never actually saw it. I believe it is not in the Green on White Management Volumes but is in Sea Org issues which LRH wrote up specifically for the Sea Org. When I mentioned it to Yvonne and other S.O. people, they all seemed to know about it and nodded that it existed. This is not surprising. S.O. Policy think is that the Sea Org can never do any wrong so that anyone who wants to leave has overts and withholds against the Sea Org. The concept is that since the Sea Org member is withholding overts, withholds and missed withholds while working at Flag or some higher Org, it is dangerous to post him or her back at a lower Org and allow them to resume their career there.

The concept that the person has a legitimate gripe and the Sea Org went off policy and was unethical to him or her simply does not exist within the Sea Org. It is not now and never has been tolerated as an option or a valid opinion. If the Sea Org did do something wrong to a staff member, then they justify that the person "pulled it in" due to MU's, Overts and Withholds. Even if you are cleaned up and handlled at the highest Org, you are not allowed to be reposted at a lower Org because then you would be reducing in size as a being. Once you had done well at the high Org, then in management's eyes there would be no valid reson to return to a lower org, i.e. a "smaller game." Remember their mantra in the catchy song, "Think BIG and your deeds will grow, think small and you'll fall behind." It all makes sense and is consistent but in cases like mine the erroneous assumptions behind the policy are exposed as complete insanity.
Lakey
 

AnonKat

Crusader
Barbara De Angelis:

We need to find the courage to say NO to the things and people that are not serving us if we want to rediscover ourselves and live our lives with authenticity.


do_not_want_cat.jpg
 
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