CAN WE TALK ABOUT PTS TECH?

[paul.spiritualquest]

Some info on Metapsychology can be found here:

http://www.tir.org/about-amp.html

Hi,

the link you posted is not the Metapyschology developed by Mayo, and his school. Is a completely different thing what you posted.

I wanted to know about the Metapsychology as developed by David Mayo, maybe some practitioner around here? Any ideas, a simple synthesis what is about? Is it practiced somewhere, by whom?

best,

P.

 

[IMMORTAL]

From the git go you are trained on "don't create antagonism" as regards scn. If you are exceedingly well trained on this, as is the point, you will know it and apply it so well that you will never even encounter any counter scn. positions from your close friends and family because your PR will be so perfectly in that you will never give anyone cause for concern, alarm or inquiry.
It's an implant and it's a trap. It sets you up and thus it can go on for years on end. Perfect!

Realistically, yes, you don't want to give someone unnecessary misunderstoods or act better or different than them bec. you are a scn. which is also the point of the ref. but it becomes such a mind-set that it freezes you up and you just cannot be your regular old self anymore because there are just so many things now that you simply cannot talk about! You do tend to withhold your whole new life in scn. to the point where you are, perhaps, leading two lives. If they will even let you lead the other one. I imagine a bigamist may feel that way!!

Unfortunately, I, therefore, never gave anyone cause for alarm when I should have. It is a way to isolate you.

If you are OTVIII, you or others you know have likely done the PTS/SP course two or three times. Ever wonder why?

I am finding so many of pieces of tech that are a no-way-out street! Perfect traps! The egg shell is cracking.....

Hello! Well, I was told we needed to be really proofed up on the PTS/SP tech because as an OTVIII, we would be a target. Well, it was real at the time. Now it even MORE real why that would be true. Because I wouldn't be under the church's thumb every minute of every day and I would be out in the world and more than likely encounter something I'd not been allowed to encounter before. And, that's what happened.

However, their plan didn't work for me. It was just the opposite. Finally, I was able to start looking. And when I found something quite by accident, I didn't shut it out. I was prepared to deal with what was out there.

I completely understand what you mean by the egg shell is cracking. Mine, too. We'll emerge as different people now.

Welcome!!

 

[skollie]

Hi,

the link you posted is not the Metapyschology developed by Mayo, and his school. Is a completely different thing what you posted.

I wanted to know about the Metapsychology as developed by David Mayo, maybe some practitioner around here? Any ideas, a simple synthesis what is about? Is it practiced somewhere, by whom?

best,

P.

That is the correct link. Metapsychology was created by Sarge Gerbode and David Mayo.

 

[Hatshepsut]

Hi,

the link you posted is not the Metapyschology developed by Mayo, and his school. Is a completely different thing what you posted.

I wanted to know about the Metapsychology as developed by David Mayo, maybe some practitioner around here? Any ideas, a simple synthesis what is about? Is it practiced somewhere, by whom?

best,

P.

http://www.healing-arts.org/tir/frank.htm
I cannot remember the name of David's magazine after he left the AAC in Santa Barbara. It had a three word title. I have some somewhere. He posted in both. His came before Dr. Gerbode's. I think it was only out about a year. It was after the Magazine of the Advanced Ability Center. 'Institute for Research in....?'

 

[ExKane]

The PTS/SP tech is indeed my opinion a well crafted, insidious control mechanism.

I find it highly likely that Hubbard wrote it in an effort to keep Scientologists insulated from any forms of criticism. Before the internet, this proved quite effective. Now, not so much - thankfully.

In my opinion the PTS/SP tech accomplishes two main things: 1. convincing Scientologists to run in fear of anyone critical of Scientology, thereby keeping them in the "game"; and 2. it is yet ANOTHER case of the "monoideism" replete within the Scientology philosophy. What I mean by this is, it makes your problems seem like they have a very simple, single source (in this case, an SP). People LIKE to think their problems are solved easily, and that their problems have very simple sources. Problem is, this is basically never the case.

The entire OT tech is another case of this monoideistic tendency. I think Hubbard realized that people will gravitate towards seeing their problems as having simple, singular causes. (Look for the "why.") In the case of the OT tech, this is of course body thetans. "Just audit those away (credit card accepted) and your problems will be gone!"

...
Except not.

 

[lkwdblds]

Acknowledgements for Arthur Dent and Immortal

Hello! Well, I was told we needed to be really proofed up on the PTS/SP tech because as an OTVIII, we would be a target. Well, it was real at the time. Now it even MORE real why that would be true. Because I wouldn't be under the church's thumb every minute of every day and I would be out in the world and more than likely encounter something I'd not been allowed to encounter before. And, that's what happened.

However, their plan didn't work for me. It was just the opposite. Finally, I was able to start looking. And when I found something quite by accident, I didn't shut it out. I was prepared to deal with what was out there.

I completely understand what you mean by the egg shell is cracking. Mine, too. We'll emerge as different people now.

Welcome!!

Arthur Dent - Welcome to ESMB, your outlook on the post you wrote is both refreshing and honest. I am anxious to here more about your story because you appear to have made it out of the C of S still retaining your sanity, critical thinking skills and objectivity.

IMMORTAL - You reveal a lot about yourself by the way you conduct your postings. Your practice of aknowledging all who post on your thread speaks volumes about you, the kind of person you are and what your motives are. It shows that you grant beingness to people who enter into your Orb or your Universe, so to speak. It shows you value people and both want to learn from them but also you want to use your own experiences and beingness to forward their goals and purposes as well.

It is not lost on me, and apparently many others as well, that you made it to the top of the Bridge as far as what is being offered in the C of S today. Not very many have made it to the level you have. Even though I have some bones to pick with LRH and the tech, I am in the class of exes who believe that I got a lot out of the tech as well and the fact that you made it to the top is something to be acknowledged and is not something to take lightly. I want to acknowledge you for this achievement! Undoubtedly you worked your butt off to accomplish what you did.

The beauty of your achievement, is that you made it to the top and still retained your personal objectivity and integrity and did not just become robotic to DM and meld in to some sort of PR type OT Ambassador who PR's the Church robotically while in the process, losing their independence as a being and becoming instead just a mouth piece for the C of S.

Similar to my experience learning Hubbard's Ethics tech and then applying the stability it gave me to critique objectively PTS and SP tech, so too have you completed the auditing side of your bridge and taken what gains and stability that has given you and instead of becoming a PRO puppet for C of S, you are using your gains and stability to actually better existing conditions both inside and outside the C of S. You are living testimony that there are gains to be had from Hubbard's tech and living proof that one can make those gains one's own and use them to better conditions on this planet. You are being very pan determined and I wish to acknowledge you for that!
Lakey

 

[Kookaburra]

I found this to be a very comprehensive post and really helped me understand it so much better. The history of it, the progression of it and oh, the alteration of it to what it is today.....a control mechanism just as I was beginning to suspect when this started to crack in my universe.

So much of what you say is what was hard for me to reconcile especially in regards to ethics removing the counter intention from the environment. The greatest good for the greatest number ALWAYS seemed to end up in favor of the 3rd and 4th Dynamics. I had a hard time trying to convince any EO or MAA that they were my dynamics. Mine, not Scientology's.

I really appreciate your post. Oh and you won't have to worry about me ever reading on that staff qual question ever again.

Thanks, Immortal.

I realized after I wrote that post that I missed something completely. And that is SP declares. When I first learned about SP's and declares, it didn't seem so bad. After all, SP's were super bad, bad, baaadd people. I had even spotted that I had known one in the past. Totally evil and destructive person. So labeling one if found wasn't such a bad idea, I thought. You would certainly be better off without someone like that around.

Anyway, next thing that happened was the policy on declaring blown staff came out. Well, that was a bit closer to home. My boyfriend was a blown staff member. But he had blown before the policy came out, so he was spared the ax. Later on I joined staff. The policy on Leaving and Leaves came out. So now you could get declared for just saying you wanted to leave, or even go on a holiday! So what is that? It's a cut comm line. Someone who is having a rough time dare not let anyone know. So the people being targeted here are people who have inside knowledge of the workings of an org, and particularly the not so savoury bits of the inner workings of an org. They are NOT suppressive people. They are people who know too much and must be silenced! That is half of it.

The other half is the control it puts in on people still in. You cannot talk to people who have walked your path before you. You cannot find out what happened to them. You cannot find out what they discovered, or conclusions they came to. (You're probably discovering this in a big way, right now) You also know that it is not that hard to get declared, and if you do you will lose all your friends and acquaintances in one fell swoop. You will likely have to move house (if you live with other Scios). You will lose your job if you work for or with other Scios. And worst of all, you will likely lose your spouse, boyfriend, possible your children or parents if any of them are Scientologists. And you may, at the time, agree to this if you have bought into the idea that their bridge is their salvation and pulling them out with you would be a ginormous overt. Now this all adds up to one very big stick! It does give HCO far more clout than any human being should ever have over another.

Gone is any concept of granting beingness, of finding one's spiritual path, of confiding in friends, of working out the problems within the group, or any of the normal interactions that occur in normal groups.

Immortal, I must say you have a very understanding and patient family, to keep their mouths shut while you went all the way to OT VIII!

Next thing that happened was the 1982 fiasco, when some of my friends left and went to Mayo's group. As friends they simply vanished from my world. I never had a chance to sit and talk and find out what went down. The rollback tech came out. Any criticism of Scientology was considered an enemy line. So a person voicing it would be given a metered interview and who said this criticism to them would be tracked down, that person brought in and interviewed and so on till the source was found. Now that sure got people not talking! Any outpoint duly noted became and enemy line and an ethics offence to speak about. This time period, btw, was a major turning point in Scn, where it began to get more and more oppressive and controlling. Little wonder...any acknowledgement of anything wrong, much less and attempt to handle it, was severely dealt with!

But even worse than that, the comm line between friends, between spouses, and between family members became very superficial. You never knew when someone would be getting an ethics interview or sec check and your private conversation would be dragged out of them and you would be punished for it. So you just tended not to voice what was really going on with you, or your innermost thoughts. Neither could you say them to your auditor. Auditing had been largely replaced with HCO sec checks, especially for staff. Alltogether, a VERY unhealthy situation. And diametrically opposed to what is supposed to happen in Scientology, theoretically, that is.

This all doesn't sound very ethical, does it?

Sounds more like the third reich, or the KGB getting schoolkids to report on their parents.

I honestly thing that Scn ethics is it's downfall, mostly based on the above points. It is ultimately what will bring Scientology crashing down in a storm of lawsuits, criminal charges and government anti-cult legislation.

Oh, and did I mention Jokers and Degraders policy? That was another one that landed like a small bomb in the org. Humour is defined as ability to spot an outpoint (paraphrased). But spotting an outpoint in the org was suppressive? I guess so. :confused2:

Someone with withholds wrote that PL. (sacrilege)

Gee, if they were still giving out goldenrod, HH would be able to wallpaper his entire house!

Now quite a number of people on this board are declared SPs. And per ethics policy, the rest of us should be. Not to mention that other crowd of 10,000 Anonymous. They are all SPs too! So what does that mean? It very simply means that those inside are not allowed to hear or read what we say. And the only point to that is that they would learn the truth, and they would start questioning and under the current regime, they would leave Scientology.

See, simply a control mechanism.

 

[Kookaburra]

Oh, I also forgot to mention, my exit cog when I left the Sea Org was that I was PTS to the sea org. I was extremely ill at the time, and knew I wasn't going to live much longer if I kept up the SO lifestyle. It is the only time I ever used disconnection to handle a PTS sit! It was a great relief! And yes, I still think that the SO is a suppressive group.

 

[AnonKat]

That is so sad. Again, here it is about 25 years later and I'm just finding out about this.

FREEZONE site with intresting stuff BY Mayo

http://www.freezone.org/reports/e_mayo01.htm (Debrief of Mayo 83)

http://www.freezone.org/reports/e_jmayo.htm (Mayo on LRH)

http://www.freezone.org/reports/e_mayo02.htm (Mayo, unfair Game 1996 !!!)

 

[Terril park]

Hi,

the link you posted is not the Metapyschology developed by Mayo, and his school. Is a completely different thing what you posted.

I wanted to know about the Metapsychology as developed by David Mayo, maybe some practitioner around here? Any ideas, a simple synthesis what is about? Is it practiced somewhere, by whom?

best,

P.

Its the same thing. TIR is dianetics re written, Metapsychology is
pretty much scientology re written. Both authored by Sarge Gerbode
with assistence from Mayo.

Sarge and family being very wealthy funded Mayo's 10 year legal battle with COS. Sarge worked with Mayo in Mayo's AAC.

 

[lkwdblds]

Nice post - I concur

Oh, I also forgot to mention, my exit cog when I left the Sea Org was that I was PTS to the sea org. I was extremely ill at the time, and knew I wasn't going to live much longer if I kept up the SO lifestyle. It is the only time I ever used disconnection to handle a PTS sit! It was a great relief! And yes, I still think that the SO is a suppressive group.

Kookaburra, nice win above and also your previous post had a lot of good material. I particularly felt the same as you when the Joker - Degrader policy came out, it just did not fully indicate. When I first got in, there was a saying going around, "If it isn't fun, it isn't Scientology" and another one of that time period was, "Scientology, the only game in the Universe where everyone wins." Well, if it becomes suppressive to make a little fun of something with outpoints, what is that all about? I can just see a Nazi SS Officer looking at a caricature someone drew of Hitler and telling the artist, "Zat is not so funny. You haf disecrated zie Fuhrer's image. Guard, take zis man outside and shoot him, Heil Hitler!"

The tactic of your not being able to discuss any negative observations with you friends, families and peers is perhaps the most suppressive element in the Sea Org bag of tricks. By invoking this rule, all other suppressive acts receive immediate cloaking and are thereafter hidden from view. This really stunts the mind of the hapless staff member who spots out ethics behavior and can not discuss it with management or among his or her peers.

USING PANEL DISCUSSION AS FORM OF EDUCATION AND YES, EVEN CASE GAIN! I have discovered in the last 6 or 8 months that panel discussions such as we hold here are one of the best means available for one to become educated in a topic. Through the education received, case gain often takes place.

If you look at an individual in session trying to run out incidents committed while on staff or in a group, sort of flow three, others to others, you are unlikely to get full resolution on your own. "It takes the 3rd dynamic to run out the 3rd dynamic engram" and this is where panel discussion can be so valuable. The quoted item is not my thought, I read it on ESMB and it was written by Purple Haze.
Lakey

 

[Kookaburra]

Yes, I remember we actually had a third dynamic engram running on something in the '70s. In the org, with everybody there. Couldn't imagine that happening in the current climate.

 

[IMMORTAL]

Arthur Dent - Welcome to ESMB, your outlook on the post you wrote is both refreshing and honest. I am anxious to here more about your story because you appear to have made it out of the C of S still retaining your sanity, critical thinking skills and objectivity.

IMMORTAL - You reveal a lot about yourself by the way you conduct your postings. Your practice of aknowledging all who post on your thread speaks volumes about you, the kind of person you are and what your motives are. It shows that you grant beingness to people who enter into your Orb or your Universe, so to speak. It shows you value people and both want to learn from them but also you want to use your own experiences and beingness to forward their goals and purposes as well.

It is not lost on me, and apparently many others as well, that you made it to the top of the Bridge as far as what is being offered in the C of S today. Not very many have made it to the level you have. Even though I have some bones to pick with LRH and the tech, I am in the class of exes who believe that I got a lot out of the tech as well and the fact that you made it to the top is something to be acknowledged and is not something to take lightly. I want to acknowledge you for this achievement! Undoubtedly you worked your butt off to accomplish what you did.

The beauty of your achievement, is that you made it to the top and still retained your personal objectivity and integrity and did not just become robotic to DM and meld in to some sort of PR type OT Ambassador who PR's the Church robotically while in the process, losing their independence as a being and becoming instead just a mouth piece for the C of S.

Similar to my experience learning Hubbard's Ethics tech and then applying the stability it gave me to critique objectively PTS and SP tech, so too have you completed the auditing side of your bridge and taken what gains and stability that has given you and instead of becoming a PRO puppet for C of S, you are using your gains and stability to actually better existing conditions both inside and outside the C of S. You are living testimony that there are gains to be had from Hubbard's tech and living proof that one can make those gains one's own and use them to better conditions on this planet. You are being very pan determined and I wish to acknowledge you for that!
Lakey

Wow! Lakey! I am very impressed with your observations of me. Stepping back and looking at patterns of action to perceive who I am and my motives. I have to tell you, I really feel duplicated by what you have said about me and to me. Your acknowledgment of my beingness, intentions, actions and accomplishments mean soooooo much to me. I experienced incredible relief as a result of your words to me and each time I read your words, I experience it all over again. I wish to thank you so much for that. It makes me feel so wonderful, serene, at peace. Thank you.

Yes, I feel there are gains to be had from LRH’s tech and stability. You are right. It was always my belief that LRH intended to help people become more able to better their own existing conditions and help ones fellows live better lives. Somewhere that went awry. Part of my quest is to identify where and why. This thread was the first identifiable glimpse of a crack in the tech I thought I knew.

And, right again. I am not dancing to the CofS tune expected of OTVIIIs. I just got to the point where I couldn’t ignore the violations of my own personal observations and integrity anymore. I couldn’t stand to see how other OTVIIs and OTVIIIs were trying to tow the line and going under for the last time as a result of time, money and spiritual bankruptcy. I couldn’t stand to listen to one more loud, pounding beat of one more event spewing CofS expansion on straight up and vertical graphs no one cared about, especially when I couldn’t observe it myself anywhere. The thought of helping another person get involved in what I felt was at one time a pro-survival activity, but now having morphed into a grotesque monster of immense proportions, made me gag. What I started with in Scn is no longer recognizable.

I pulled away…..I needed time to rest, recover and then look and evaluate. I did experience gains in Scn and those gains are allowing me to finally look without bias. I can confront the truths I will find now that I am free to look. I know the current church wants me to stand up in front of all and tout the benefits of Scientology to the world to cause more people to stampede in. It takes many, many people to help get a person to OTVIII. There is a lot of energy and work involved in it. But, I have tripped on all the dirt I found under the carpet and now must deal with that.

I don’t feel a need one way or the other to make wrong or right or to justify any actions I have or have not taken. I am on a quest for the truth as it applies to my dynamics and those around me, close to me or connected to me in any way, and ultimately the truth for us all.

I appreciate everyone’s viewpoint and help. It is so valuable. It makes catching up for my lost time and information as a result of my enforced blindness so much faster and more thorough.

Lakey, yours is possibly the most validating acknowledgment I have ever received in my entire life. I can’t tell you all it means to me. But, I can say this. As a direct result of your validating words, my space, my universe, is now so much more calm, free flowing and expanded that I feel wonderful. Thank you again.

 

[IMMORTAL]

The PTS/SP tech is indeed my opinion a well crafted, insidious control mechanism.

I find it highly likely that Hubbard wrote it in an effort to keep Scientologists insulated from any forms of criticism. Before the internet, this proved quite effective. Now, not so much - thankfully.

In my opinion the PTS/SP tech accomplishes two main things: 1. convincing Scientologists to run in fear of anyone critical of Scientology, thereby keeping them in the "game"; and 2. it is yet ANOTHER case of the "monoideism" replete within the Scientology philosophy. What I mean by this is, it makes your problems seem like they have a very simple, single source (in this case, an SP). People LIKE to think their problems are solved easily, and that their problems have very simple sources. Problem is, this is basically never the case.

The entire OT tech is another case of this monoideistic tendency. I think Hubbard realized that people will gravitate towards seeing their problems as having simple, singular causes. (Look for the "why.") In the case of the OT tech, this is of course body thetans. "Just audit those away (credit card accepted) and your problems will be gone!"

...
Except not.

Interesting post. I've never heard of monoideism but I certainly understand the single source concept you present. Very interesting. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I'll look at that more closely.

 

[Blue Spirit]

Some Thoughts

Wow! Lakey! I am very impressed with your observations of me. Stepping back and looking at patterns of action to perceive who I am and my motives. I have to tell you, I really feel duplicated by what you have said about me and to me. Your acknowledgment of my beingness, intentions, actions and accomplishments mean soooooo much to me. I experienced incredible relief as a result of your words to me and each time I read your words, I experience it all over again. I wish to thank you so much for that. It makes me feel so wonderful, serene, at peace. Thank you.

Yes, I feel there are gains to be had from LRH’s tech and stability. You are right. It was always my belief that LRH intended to help people become more able to better their own existing conditions and help ones fellows live better lives. Somewhere that went awry. Part of my quest is to identify where and why. This thread was the first identifiable glimpse of a crack in the tech I thought I knew.

And, right again. I am not dancing to the CofS tune expected of OTVIIIs. I just got to the point where I couldn’t ignore the violations of my own personal observations and integrity anymore. I couldn’t stand to see how other OTVIIs and OTVIIIs were trying to tow the line and going under for the last time as a result of time, money and spiritual bankruptcy. I couldn’t stand to listen to one more loud, pounding beat of one more event spewing CofS expansion on straight up and vertical graphs no one cared about, especially when I couldn’t observe it myself anywhere. The thought of helping another person get involved in what I felt was at one time a pro-survival activity, but now having morphed into a grotesque monster of immense proportions, made me gag. What I started with in Scn is no longer recognizable.

I pulled away…..I needed time to rest, recover and then look and evaluate. I did experience gains in Scn and those gains are allowing me to finally look without bias. I can confront the truths I will find now that I am free to look. I know the current church wants me to stand up in front of all and tout the benefits of Scientology to the world to cause more people to stampede in. It takes many, many people to help get a person to OTVIII. There is a lot of energy and work involved in it. But, I have tripped on all the dirt I found under the carpet and now must deal with that.

I don’t feel a need one way or the other to make wrong or right or to justify any actions I have or have not taken. I am on a quest for the truth as it applies to my dynamics and those around me, close to me or connected to me in any way, and ultimately the truth for us all.

I appreciate everyone’s viewpoint and help. It is so valuable. It makes catching up for my lost time and information as a result of my enforced blindness so much faster and more thorough.

Lakey, yours is possibly the most validating acknowledgment I have ever received in my entire life. I can’t tell you all it means to me. But, I can say this. As a direct result of your validating words, my space, my universe, is now so much more calm, free flowing and expanded that I feel wonderful. Thank you again.

Please contact Lakey and give him your address so he can send a bill
for the auditing you benefited from.
If not done,Lakey is a friend and you'll have to see me as Ethics Officer !

"PART OF MY QUEST IS TO IDENTIFY WHERE AND WHY."
Mentioned before, but you need to read "ALAN" 's "Opening Pandora's Box Thread" and tied in with that "DART SMOHEN" 's very well edited threads
(by "DullOldFart") at his web site called "Dart Smohen: The Real Story"
(scroll down a bit):
http://www.paulsrabbit.com/

These are long but very very worth it, and fun reading. The date of LRH's case turning to the south is demarked as April, 1963. Find out why & where.

Note: I'm quite well read for three years on the net, so if something specific is needed, just ask.

(Wait to you find out who really owns all of the copyrights !
Please be seated when looking, so that you won't pass out ! )

Have you used the P.M. function yet ?

 

[IMMORTAL]

Please contact Lakey and give him your address so he can send a bill
for the auditing you benefited from.
If not done,Lakey is a friend and you'll have to see me as Ethics Officer !

"PART OF MY QUEST IS TO IDENTIFY WHERE AND WHY."
Mentioned before, but you need to read "ALAN" 's "Opening Pandora's Box Thread" and tied in with that "DART SMOHEN" 's very well edited threads
(by "DullOldFart") at his web site called "Dart Smohen: The Real Story"
(scroll down a bit):
http://www.paulsrabbit.com/

These are long but very very worth it, and fun reading. The date of LRH's case turning to the south is demarked as April, 1963. Find out why & where.

Note: I'm quite well read for three years on the net, so if something specific is needed, just ask.

(Wait to you find out who really owns all of the copyrights !
Please be seated when looking, so that you won't pass out ! )

Have you used the P.M. function yet ?

Oh, Blue Spirit. You are soooo right! Lakey. Please send my bill for your awesome auditing to Immortal OT, 123 Milky Way Dr., This Galaxy. 88008.

Thank you so much!! I've already written my success story.

Blue Spirit, thanks for the references. I'll add those to my to do list!

IM

 

[ExKane]

Interesting post. I've never heard of monoideism but I certainly understand the single source concept you present. Very interesting. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I'll look at that more closely.

Thank you . I'm not sure the term monoideism is really meant to be used that way - I believe it technically means attentional focus on a single thing, as during meditation or hypnosis. In any case I blatantly stole this use of monoideism from The Anabaptist Jacques. Sorry TAJ . I'm sure he won't mind.

He has a nice quote that sums it up quite well (stolen from Cherished's signature):

"Scientology indoctrinates the individual to the belief that there is one cause for a situation, one thing they don't understand, one thought or consideration that limits them, one "who" behind a problem, one "why", one basic incident to each problem, one big conspiracy against Scientology and mankind, one solution, and one source for knowledge and truth. The entire discourse in Scientology doesn't allow or permit or enable a Scientologists to see it any other way."

 

[IMMORTAL]

Thanks, Immortal.

I realized after I wrote that post that I missed something completely. And that is SP declares. When I first learned about SP's and declares, it didn't seem so bad. After all, SP's were super bad, bad, baaadd people. I had even spotted that I had known one in the past. Totally evil and destructive person. So labeling one if found wasn't such a bad idea, I thought. You would certainly be better off without someone like that around.

Anyway, next thing that happened was the policy on declaring blown staff came out. Well, that was a bit closer to home. My boyfriend was a blown staff member. But he had blown before the policy came out, so he was spared the ax. Later on I joined staff. The policy on Leaving and Leaves came out. So now you could get declared for just saying you wanted to leave, or even go on a holiday! So what is that? It's a cut comm line. Someone who is having a rough time dare not let anyone know. So the people being targeted here are people who have inside knowledge of the workings of an org, and particularly the not so savoury bits of the inner workings of an org. They are NOT suppressive people. They are people who know too much and must be silenced! That is half of it.

The other half is the control it puts in on people still in. You cannot talk to people who have walked your path before you. You cannot find out what happened to them. You cannot find out what they discovered, or conclusions they came to. (You're probably discovering this in a big way, right now) You also know that it is not that hard to get declared, and if you do you will lose all your friends and acquaintances in one fell swoop. You will likely have to move house (if you live with other Scios). You will lose your job if you work for or with other Scios. And worst of all, you will likely lose your spouse, boyfriend, possible your children or parents if any of them are Scientologists. And you may, at the time, agree to this if you have bought into the idea that their bridge is their salvation and pulling them out with you would be a ginormous overt. Now this all adds up to one very big stick! It does give HCO far more clout than any human being should ever have over another.

Gone is any concept of granting beingness, of finding one's spiritual path, of confiding in friends, of working out the problems within the group, or any of the normal interactions that occur in normal groups.

Immortal, I must say you have a very understanding and patient family, to keep their mouths shut while you went all the way to OT VIII!

Next thing that happened was the 1982 fiasco, when some of my friends left and went to Mayo's group. As friends they simply vanished from my world. I never had a chance to sit and talk and find out what went down. The rollback tech came out. Any criticism of Scientology was considered an enemy line. So a person voicing it would be given a metered interview and who said this criticism to them would be tracked down, that person brought in and interviewed and so on till the source was found. Now that sure got people not talking! Any outpoint duly noted became and enemy line and an ethics offence to speak about. This time period, btw, was a major turning point in Scn, where it began to get more and more oppressive and controlling. Little wonder...any acknowledgement of anything wrong, much less and attempt to handle it, was severely dealt with!

But even worse than that, the comm line between friends, between spouses, and between family members became very superficial. You never knew when someone would be getting an ethics interview or sec check and your private conversation would be dragged out of them and you would be punished for it. So you just tended not to voice what was really going on with you, or your innermost thoughts. Neither could you say them to your auditor. Auditing had been largely replaced with HCO sec checks, especially for staff. Alltogether, a VERY unhealthy situation. And diametrically opposed to what is supposed to happen in Scientology, theoretically, that is.

This all doesn't sound very ethical, does it?

Sounds more like the third reich, or the KGB getting schoolkids to report on their parents.

I honestly thing that Scn ethics is it's downfall, mostly based on the above points. It is ultimately what will bring Scientology crashing down in a storm of lawsuits, criminal charges and government anti-cult legislation.

Oh, and did I mention Jokers and Degraders policy? That was another one that landed like a small bomb in the org. Humour is defined as ability to spot an outpoint (paraphrased). But spotting an outpoint in the org was suppressive? I guess so. :confused2:

Someone with withholds wrote that PL. (sacrilege)

Gee, if they were still giving out goldenrod, HH would be able to wallpaper his entire house!

Now quite a number of people on this board are declared SPs. And per ethics policy, the rest of us should be. Not to mention that other crowd of 10,000 Anonymous. They are all SPs too! So what does that mean? It very simply means that those inside are not allowed to hear or read what we say. And the only point to that is that they would learn the truth, and they would start questioning and under the current regime, they would leave Scientology.

See, simply a control mechanism.

Oh, I know exactly what you mean! SP declares.... of course those are baaaad people. And they deserved everything they got, too! That is what we are taught. I always found it interesting how most people were so interested in reading goldenrod, who got declared what. PTS, SP, what. It must be that thirst for drama or something.

Yeah, and got it on the staff. Per Leaving and Leaves, if a person doesn't want to be there, they can go. But to declare them if they blow? I never understood that! Is that in the ethics codes? I don't remember.

Ah. The comm line between friends, family, coworkers....the metered interviews. That is just so Gestapo. Makes me fightin' mad. It happened to me, I saw it happen to others. The way Scn ethics is used in orgs is no better than described by LRH as the reason ethics tech was formulated. People don't know how to handle it and resort to punishment and all sort of horrible and hideous things instead.

It's true what you say about my family and friends. I have recently thanked them for that. They told me that because they knew me, it was only a matter of time and that they could wait.

It a lot to take in here Kookuburra. Thank you for being here.

 

[lkwdblds]

Wow! Lakey! I am very impressed with your observations of me. Stepping back and looking at patterns of action to perceive who I am and my motives. I have to tell you, I really feel duplicated by what you have said about me and to me. Your acknowledgment of my beingness, intentions, actions and accomplishments mean soooooo much to me. I experienced incredible relief as a result of your words to me and each time I read your words, I experience it all over again. I wish to thank you so much for that. It makes me feel so wonderful, serene, at peace. Thank you.

What was it they used to say on the old Hertz commercials, "We try harder!" I sit here and read this courageous OT VIII being herself and being so straight up with everyone on this board of ex Scientologists which is sort of a big unkown to her. Your experience here could have been a catastrophic for you; as far as you knew, you might be rejected and criticized for staying in Scn too long or not acting sooner, you had no way of knowing. Still, you followed what has always been one of your core precepts, you "bit the bullet" and stuck your neck out and confronted the ESMB forum head on. Fortunately for you, this was a safe haven and you are appreciated here but at the outset, you had no way of knowing this or knowing what you would find. When I see someone exhibit great courage and stick their neck out on the line, I figure that the least I can do is give them a hearfelt acknowledgment.

Yes, I feel there are gains to be had from LRH’s tech and stability. You are right. It was always my belief that LRH intended to help people become more able to better their own existing conditions and help ones fellows live better lives. Somewhere that went awry. Part of my quest is to identify where and why. This thread was the first identifiable glimpse of a crack in the tech I thought I knew.

And, right again. I am not dancing to the CofS tune expected of OTVIIIs. I just got to the point where I couldn’t ignore the violations of my own personal observations and integrity anymore. I couldn’t stand to see how other OTVIIs and OTVIIIs were trying to tow the line and going under for the last time as a result of time, money and spiritual bankruptcy. I couldn’t stand to listen to one more loud, pounding beat of one more event spewing CofS expansion on straight up and vertical graphs no one cared about, especially when I couldn’t observe it myself anywhere. The thought of helping another person get involved in what I felt was at one time a pro-survival activity, but now having morphed into a grotesque monster of immense proportions, made me gag. What I started with in Scn is no longer recognizable.

I pulled away…..I needed time to rest, recover and then look and evaluate. I did experience gains in Scn and those gains are allowing me to finally look without bias. I can confront the truths I will find now that I am free to look. I know the current church wants me to stand up in front of all and tout the benefits of Scientology to the world to cause more people to stampede in. It takes many, many people to help get a person to OTVIII. There is a lot of energy and work involved in it. But, I have tripped on all the dirt I found under the carpet and now must deal with that.

I don’t feel a need one way or the other to make wrong or right or to justify any actions I have or have not taken. I am on a quest for the truth as it applies to my dynamics and those around me, close to me or connected to me in any way, and ultimately the truth for us all.

I appreciate everyone’s viewpoint and help. It is so valuable. It makes catching up for my lost time and information as a result of my enforced blindness so much faster and more thorough.

Lakey, yours is possibly the most validating acknowledgment I have ever received in my entire life. I can’t tell you all it means to me. But, I can say this. As a direct result of your validating words, my space, my universe, is now so much more calm, free flowing and expanded that I feel wonderful. Thank you again.

Your closing paragraph and ack to me is one of the biggest wins I have ever had too. For you who achieved OT VIII to receive such a great lift from my acknowledgement just blows me out as well. It just sends me a signal that the large amount of time I am spending on ESMB is time well spent. Just in case you are wondering, I got as far as finishing the "old OT Levels, pre NOTs" and also completed audited NOTs and in training I am Interned on NED and did my Academy levels but never interned on them.

How am I able to read you so well? You are an open book, you are not in someone else's valence but you go through life being yourself. I have been that way myself but too much so to a degree where my openness and forthrightness was hurting my dynamics and impacting on my loved ones. I just got this area sorted out here on ESMB over perhaps the last two or three weeks.

Anyway, what I am saying is that I share some of the traits which you have and after reading just a few paragraphs in your very finely written first post on this thread, I pretty much knew who you are and what you were all about. It boils down pretty much to you being an open book type of being, "what you see is what you get" and I am the same way. For an honest person who is going through life being themselves, it is easy for me to read you without any effort and I figure you have that same ability vis a vis reading me. I believe in keeping a childlike happy, spirit of play type of approach to life and this enables me to pick up rather effortlessly on other open beings who share some of these traits with me.

Please read my personal story thread, "The Old Days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973" The first 11 pages cover my personal stories onboard the Apollo and my prequel having to do with my initial days at CCLA. That took up only 11 pages and we are not up to Page 167 on the thread. The story of why and how that happened is told on the thread. We, two other people are working with me on this, are trying to create a high level internet type of newspaper or magazine site here on ESMB. I love writing and this is the first time I have ever really tried to use and develop my writing skills and my Apollo thread has succeeded beyond my wildest dreams. Please check it out. It is very informative and we have some of the best minds on ESMB posting there on a regular basis on many different topics. For example, Blue Spirit is one of my regular posters. I am recruiting you to come over and read up a little of my thread and then start posting there.

NEWLY ADDED PARAGRAPH ON TR2 - ADDED ABOUT 2 HOURS AFTER WRITING THIS POST
Way back in 1970 when I took my first comm course, TR 2, was perhaps the most important tool WHICH I learned. I have used it more than any other piece of Scio tech over the decades. It is amazing what proper usage of TR 2 can do for one's life. A lot of the detractors of Hubbard and the tech bemoan the lack of OT abilities such as remote viewing because they want to spy on beautiful women bathing and dressing or some such activity. They also want to read minds and move matter by will alone. They claim that no one can do any of these things so that the tech is all a con game. To me, knowledge of TR 2 and learning how to use and apply it is vastly more important in improving conditions in real life than all those parlor trick type OT abilities combined. Good TR 2 alone can open an unbelievable number of doors in life. I urge anyone to just go out into your normal daily routine but emphasize excellent acknowledgements to all people whom you encounter and see what happens. For young people trying to get a 2D going, it is a very powerful tool you can use to win somebody over. You can use TR 2 and get a spiritual being to give you affinity and also partake of pleasures of the flesh rather than just using remote viewing to spy on just the flesh part of a being. Think about it, which is the morre "OT" ability?

Thank you IMMORTSL so much for your kind words to me - Lakey

 

[IMMORTAL]

Your closing paragraph and ack to me is one of the biggest wins I have ever had too. For you who achieved OT VIII to receive such a great lift from my acknowledgement just blows me out as well. It just sends me a signal that the large amount of time I am spending on ESMB is time well spent. Just in case you are wondering, I got as far as finishing the "old OT Levels, pre NOTs" and also completed audited NOTs and in training I am Interned on NED and did my Academy levels but never interned on them.

How am I able to read you so well? You are an open book, you are not in someone else's valence but you go through life being yourself. I have been that way myself but too much so to a degree where my openness and forthrightness was hurting my dynamics and impacting on my loved ones. I just got this area sorted out here on ESMB over perhaps the last two or three weeks.

Anyway, what I am saying is that I share some of the traits which you have and after reading just a few paragraphs in your very finely written first post on this thread, I pretty much knew who you are and what you were all about. It boils down pretty much to you being an open book type of being, "what you see is what you get" and I am the same way. For an honest person who is going through life being themselves, it is easy for me to read you without any effort and I figure you have that same ability vis a vis reading me. I believe in keeping a childlike happy, spirit of games type of approach to life and this enables me to pick up on other open beings who share some of these traits with me rather effortlessly.

Please read my personal story thread, "The Old Days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973" The first 11 pages cover my personal stories onboard the Apollo and my prequel having to do with my initial days at CCLA. That took up only 11 pages and we are not up to Page 167 on the thread. The story of why and how that happened is told on the thread. We, two other people are working with me on this, are trying to create a high level internet type of newspaper or magazine site here on ESMB. I love writing and this is the first time I have ever really tried to use and develop my writing skills and my Apollo thread has succeeded beyond my wildest dreams. Please check it out. It is very informative and we have some of the best minds on ESMB posting there on a regular basis on many different topics. I am recruiting you to come over and read up a little of my thread and then start posting there.
Thank you so much for your kind words to me - Lakey

You are right about the open book thing. That's me. Well, you've done quite a bit of the bridge and have quite a bit of training. IMO, you would be/are a great auditor. You grant tons of beingness and flow lots of ARC and theta. The keys along with a good comm cycle. Wonderful. Thank you.

I have to tell you that the Apollo thread has been a great attraction for me, but I just haven't gotten over there yet. It looks very active. Then, when you told me you have your personal stories there and are writing it as a newspaper or magazine site.....well, let me just say I was highly motivated to go there right away. Then, on top of all that.... you recruited me!

Lakey, I'm there, count me in! Maybe not this minute, but in the next 24 hours, I'm there.

Love
Immortal