Cannot reach escape velocity

[Crashed Alien]

I hope you are all well and that you are making good progress in your journey of life.

Thought I'd drop you a note to let anyone interested know how things are going with my journey.

Well...

I am a bit on edge, a bit strung out and feeling very.. sort of alone, as if I am outside life, looking in like a spectator a lot of the time (most of the time).

Not sure that gives my true feelings justice, it is difficult to explain.

I am not alone physically - I have my lovely family and they are a great consolation to me.

But the past now feels like a false memory, as if it is were someone else's life that I read about, or saw on TV or something.

Interesting times indeed! Scary too...

Seems like my dilemma regarding friends and family in the S.O. may be diminishing...

It may even resolve itself!

My awakening and coming to terms with what has been going on, and what is going on, has not been easy.

Apart from the fact that I feel as if I am in a film (movie) most of the time... Well... that aside!

Seems as if the allegiances I had in the past may have been based on false premise and on flawed foundations...

That realisation is a double edged sword.

On one edge, I am very unhappy about the false premise and flawed foundations... But on the other, well... I feel freed from the bonds that I had as they were not real.

I think?

Bitter sweet.

Bitter sweet indeed...

Hard lessons to learn at this point in my life.

I am seriously questioning everything I knew... Everything I know.

And that is very unsettling! I am way outside my comfort zone in a world that I did not think really existed.

Not so sure I can keep it up, not sure if I can cope with it.

And, to compound it, some more memories are returning!... and even those are not as I would have expected.... Not at all what I can even believe right now...

Perhaps I have left the realm of the sane, I certainly feel like it.

Crash...

 

[Ogsonofgroo]

Heya Crash, I, and am sure many, others wish you well matey!

Me am okay, even iffin I don't know if I was included in your question

Hope you are well too, I have a bunch of comments to make about yer post, will wait until sobereer

& &

 

[Crashed Alien]

Heya Crash, I, and am sure many, others wish you well matey!

Me am okay, even iffin I don't know if I was included in your question

Hope you are well too, I have a bunch of comments to make about yer post, will wait until sobereer

& &

Hi Ogsonofgroo

Thank you for the kind thought.

Yes, all here are welcome and are included (including you )- My posts are for all to share - I hope it might help, somehow - Even if its only a little.

I look forward to hearing your comments.

Crash

 

[TrevAnon]

Hi Crash,

Long and moving thread is long and moving.

Apart from a short welcome post at the beginning of 2012 I never really looked into this thread. As I was never in, I thought it would be better that some who were in helped you on your way out. And hey, I can't read all threads, can I?

Today at last I took some time to glance through the thread. I hope you don't mind me not reading all of it.

I think this thread is ESMB at its best. I also think those are words that Cherished used, and I'm happy I can steal them. Having never been in, for me this thread gives me more understanding of the road someone who leaves has to go. I've been around fighting COS since May 2008 and I still learn.

For that I thank you and all the people who have previously posted on this thread.

Trev

 

[Idle Morgue]

Crash - you are not alone, my friend. What you are describing, I believe, is what we all have to go through with coming to terms of what happened to us. Scientology uses mind control methods to control - these are the side effects.

I have experienced exactly what you describe. What helped me the most is to read everything I can about mind control.

Arnie has some great information on the "confusion technique" and that was powerful for me to understand what Scientology does to get such control over people's lives.

These are side effects of Scientology. Once you are out - you won't get any worse!! Keep reading, keep posting, keep going...you will feel better over time. We all understand what you are going through but it will get better!!

 

[In present time]

Re: Anonymous busted?

I heard that a couple of guys from Anonymous got jailed today for hacking...

Another to be sentenced. Another with a suspended sentence.

I gather that they might actually be the first convictions for this kind of criminal computer assault in the UK...

They appear to have caused significant damage - £3.5m to PayPal according to the BBC!

Interesting case... Interesting precedent... Very interesting indeed... Very interesting ramifications...

Seems like some bullying tactics are simply not tolerated... No matter what colour they are painted.

Anonymous should take note, it looks like the police and the authorities do not forgive and do not forget either... This should not be ignored!

There is a difference between making a point by protesting and then causing real and malicious damage to others... Quite a big difference.

I am going through the mill in regard to my beliefs and the foundations of my life are very wobbly at the moment.

But, even with what I know and have experienced, I do not believe that hatred and destruction is a good approach - It can get to the point where it is virtually impossible to tell the "good" guys from the "bad" - At which point one should seriously question what one is doing...

Is there really any difference, any real justification between Anonymous carrying out criminal activities or the CofS carrying out criminal activities? If so, please explain.

Has one become the enemy? Has one been a rebel or a terrorist? Hard to tell on this case. Simply a point of view!

Perhaps it is better to try diplomacy, communication and established democratic methods of negotiation rather than bullying, intimidation and thuggery... Maybe even try an approach where both parties could come out better off, or even enlightened - And yes, that can happen.

Taking down PayPal or Mastercard, or any site really (Including the CofS), seems like a pretty cowardly and nasty thing to do, especially if it is on a whim, especially if it is out of hatred...

I would hope that we are all a little wiser than that, would behave a little better toward each other...

I wonder how the group "Anonymous" will treat these people... I am interested to see what they do, how they deal with the various risks and issues of either disowning these criminals or, on the other hand, keep their association with convicted criminals...

Just my view, perhaps still twisted and skewed from my current position. Perhaps not.

But I felt I had to say something and am happy to be slammed, or happy to discuss... My position is not cast in stone and I will not pretend to know everything about this case...

I think I would prefer to discuss, I do not really like fighting...

Crash

let the whole damn thing fall. paypal and master card(they are the master and you are the slave) are not your friends.
anonymous is difficult to describe. anonymous is not even a tactic really and it certainly isnt an organization of any kind. anonymous if anything is a state of mind...
we will never know who is doing the hacking really. could just as easily be counter intel pro, we know the governments and the banks want control of the internet, and they have a big fat bag of dirty tricks to forward that agenda. they don't care who they harm.

good luck to you crash, i am trying to work my way through your thread, but you got some MU's on anonymous

 

[Ogsonofgroo]

I hope you are all well and that you are making good progress in your journey of life.

Thought I'd drop you a note to let anyone interested know how things are going with my journey.

Well...

I am a bit on edge, a bit strung out and feeling very.. sort of alone, as if I am outside life, looking in like a spectator a lot of the time (most of the time).

Not sure that gives my true feelings justice, it is difficult to explain.

I am not alone physically - I have my lovely family and they are a great consolation to me.

But the past now feels like a false memory, as if it is were someone else's life that I read about, or saw on TV or something.

Interesting times indeed! Scary too...

Seems like my dilemma regarding friends and family in the S.O. may be diminishing...

It may even resolve itself!

My awakening and coming to terms with what has been going on, and what is going on, has not been easy.

Apart from the fact that I feel as if I am in a film (movie) most of the time... Well... that aside!

Seems as if the allegiances I had in the past may have been based on false premise and on flawed foundations...

That realisation is a double edged sword.

On one edge, I am very unhappy about the false premise and flawed foundations... But on the other, well... I feel freed from the bonds that I had as they were not real.

I think?

Bitter sweet.

Bitter sweet indeed...

Hard lessons to learn at this point in my life.

I am seriously questioning everything I knew... Everything I know.

And that is very unsettling! I am way outside my comfort zone in a world that I did not think really existed.

Not so sure I can keep it up, not sure if I can cope with it.

And, to compound it, some more memories are returning!... and even those are not as I would have expected.... Not at all what I can even believe right now...

Perhaps I have left the realm of the sane, I certainly feel like it.

Crash...

Funny you mentioned you feel like sometimes you are in a movie, I too get that once in a while, just the bizarreness of some of the things that have gone on in my own life I think. The detachment you feel about some of the past isn't unusual either, I would consider that that may be a defense mechanism of sorts, not so much burying it as it is more like simply filing it away so that it isn't in the forefront of your thoughts all the time, giving your self some breathing room to carry on; you can go back and meditate through it within a context of your own making, in your own time and comfort zone.
Having doubts and questioning things seems to me pretty normal, though I would imagine that on the far end of the scale would be neurotic, and at the other end, blind acceptance?
It occurred to me that something like Tai Chi might be of great benefit, to help re-center yourself, become grounded, to help give your mind some space to move forward from and continue to grow and learn. That you have family with love is wonderful, you are very lucky there. Whether issues with friends and family 'still in' will resolved themselves, hm, depends on the people I guess, but I think about all you can do until then is simply keep loving and caring irregardless, and if you can, be there with open arms for those who get away.
Loneliness can be a bitch, especially in a room full of people, years ago a buddy of mine pointed out an obvious thing to me, that one must become at peace within themselves, comfortable in your own skin so ta speak, become your own best friend and treat yourself accordingly. The old Franklin song RESPECT come to mind
Not sure how much sense I am making here, hopefully a bit.

Take good care of yourself Crash, live, laugh, and love

Ogs

 

[pj666]

Aye, Strat! I hear you, I feel you, I understand. Goin' in with guns blazin', goin' out with 'WTF happened' ??? AND: what do I do NOW??? Keep typing, it's therapeutic!

 

[Crashed Alien]

Re: Anonymous busted?

Hi In Present Time

Thanks for your comment - Much appreciated.

let the whole damn thing fall. paypal and master card(they are the master and you are the slave) are not your friends.
anonymous is difficult to describe. anonymous is not even a tactic really and it certainly isnt an organization of any kind. anonymous if anything is a state of mind...
we will never know who is doing the hacking really. could just as easily be counter intel pro, we know the governments and the banks want control of the internet, and they have a big fat bag of dirty tricks to forward that agenda. they don't care who they harm.

I still think that certain tactics are wrong - I think that is my current view. I know a lot about intel.

paypal, mastercard, etc may very well be huge and controlling - But realise that there are opportunities everywhere, especially if on understands the game... Sometimes the slave master can unwittingly become the slave.

good luck to you crash, i am trying to work my way through your thread, but you got some MU's on anonymous

This may be true, but I have learned a lot since that part of the thread.

If you feel that I am mistaken of have MUs, please point them out - That is really helpful and will not be taken the wrong way...

All the best to you...

Crash

 

[Crashed Alien]

Hi TrevAnon,

Thank you for your reply.

Long and moving thread is long and moving.

I am glad that you "feel" the thread - It is an extremely emotional ride! Not one that I ever expected to take!

Apart from a short welcome post at the beginning of 2012 I never really looked into this thread. As I was never in, I thought it would be better that some who were in helped you on your way out. And hey, I can't read all threads, can I?

Today at last I took some time to glance through the thread. I hope you don't mind me not reading all of it.

I am happy that you are interested - There is no obligation to write - or to read - so I have no say really - I do not mind if you read it all or none... Just happy that it might help.

I think that a lot of it is my own coming to terms - It is from me, my soul, my heart and is along my path, but it may not fit other people's worlds... or it may? Hard to tell.

I think this thread is ESMB at its best. I also think those are words that Cherished used, and I'm happy I can steal them. Having never been in, for me this thread gives me more understanding of the road someone who leaves has to go. I've been around fighting COS since May 2008 and I still learn.

For that I thank you and all the people who have previously posted on this thread.

If you have never been in, makes me curious as to why you have been fighting the CofS for 5 years... I hope you have not suffered through others too much...

I feel stronger, more like I used to when I was younger - Self determined and motivated... I think I am feeling a bit better as my life grows and expands outwards...

Not sure if the pains and the grief and the internal struggles ever get less... But hopefully, my world, my life will expand so that it at least appears less by being proportionally less in relation to life...

All the best to you...

Crash

 

[Crashed Alien]

Hi IdleMorgue,

WOW!, Thank you!

Crash - you are not alone, my friend. What you are describing, I believe, is what we all have to go through with coming to terms of what happened to us. Scientology uses mind control methods to control - these are the side effects.

It is good to read this - I have felt quite alone at times - Really alone... Glad to hear I might not be.

These side-effects are pretty tough! Much more than I had expected - In fact, scarily so.

I have experienced exactly what you describe. What helped me the most is to read everything I can about mind control.

I am sorry that you had to go through this too - It is not something I would wish on anyone really... I have read a lot but know that I still have a great deal to learn after "waking up"...

Arnie has some great information on the "confusion technique" and that was powerful for me to understand what Scientology does to get such control over people's lives.

Not sure who Arnie is... I would like to know about the "confusion technique" if it was powerful enough to help... That sounds truly interesting.

These are side effects of Scientology. Once you are out - you won't get any worse!! Keep reading, keep posting, keep going...you will feel better over time. We all understand what you are going through but it will get better!!

Thanks for that - Good to know that this pain is a healing pain and wont get worse... Hard for me to believe right now (no offence) but I hope you are right.

And I intend to keep reading and posting - It is pretty therapeutic - Also pretty upsetting - Depends where I find myself...

I wish you all the best and hope that you are also healing...

Or healed?

Crash

 

[Crashed Alien]

Hi Ogsonofgroo

Funny you mentioned you feel like sometimes you are in a movie, I too get that once in a while, just the bizarreness of some of the things that have gone on in my own life I think. The detachment you feel about some of the past isn't unusual either, I would consider that that may be a defense mechanism of sorts, not so much burying it as it is more like simply filing it away so that it isn't in the forefront of your thoughts all the time, giving your self some breathing room to carry on; you can go back and meditate through it within a context of your own making, in your own time and comfort zone.

Interesting that you have been through this... Thank you for the suggestion. I think it is sound - It is also a very compassionate thin for you to say...

I am also lucky in that I have some really good friends who seem to be able to tolerate my current state... More than tolerate - They are showing real love... a true friendship

Having doubts and questioning things seems to me pretty normal, though I would imagine that on the far end of the scale would be neurotic, and at the other end, blind acceptance?

I agree - I think I have been at both ends of the scale - At least I hope I have as they are extreme and I wouldn't want them to go further!

It occurred to me that something like Tai Chi might be of great benefit, to help re-center yourself, become grounded, to help give your mind some space to move forward from and continue to grow and learn.

Funnily enough, I have been looking into Yoga and martial arts... I think I might keep doing that. Re-centring myself is what I am trying to do - But everything wobbles at the moment - I mean up is down, left is right! If you understand me...

That you have family with love is wonderful, you are very lucky there. Whether issues with friends and family 'still in' will resolved themselves, hm, depends on the people I guess, but I think about all you can do until then is simply keep loving and caring irregardless, and if you can, be there with open arms for those who get away.

I am very lucky with my family and the love that they give. I can only agree an hope that the issues with friends and family do resolve... But I will be here - my arms are open, ready to catch and hold and help anyon who does "get away". It is awful that the very thing that was, to me, total freedom, appears to have been a cage... I spin when I think about it.

Loneliness can be a bitch, especially in a room full of people, years ago a buddy of mine pointed out an obvious thing to me, that one must become at peace within themselves, comfortable in your own skin so ta speak, become your own best friend and treat yourself accordingly. The old Franklin song RESPECT come to mind

That is great advice - I am happy that I am me - And getting happier by the day! I feel, for the first time really, that I can be nice to me! That is a freedom.

Not sure how much sense I am making here, hopefully a bit.

I think you are making a lot of sense - Had you asked me a year ago, well that would have been a different story! But not today.

I relate to you completely and thank you VERY much for your care, your genuine compassion and care...

Take good care of yourself Crash, live, laugh, and love

And to you - I hope that you are living and laughing and loving - You deserve to be.

All the best to you.

Crash

 

[Crashed Alien]

Aye, Strat! I hear you, I feel you, I understand. Goin' in with guns blazin', goin' out with 'WTF happened' ??? AND: what do I do NOW??? Keep typing, it's therapeutic!

Hey pj666,

Thanks - Guns still blazin', but may be pointed the other way! The WTF happened is hard to come to terms with... I am trying.

The What do I do now is easier as I have a lovely supportive and loving family... And we are doing very well!

I am keeping forward on the path (I think)... But the questioning is therapeutic.

All the best to you...

Crash

 

[TrevAnon]

If you have never been in, makes me curious as to why you have been fighting the CofS for 5 years... I hope you have not suffered through others too much...

I was never in, I never lost anyone near to the cult, the Amsterdam org is 200 km away. So I have asked myself that question lots of times.

When I was about 16 (I am 45 now) I heard about COS for the first time. I was told it was bad news, and I didn't go find out for myself. I once (must have been 20 or so) tried to read DMSMH (Book One) but I never finished it; too much crap, I couldn't stand it. In 1997 or 1998 I started lurking on OCMB every now and then, starting 2002 I did that every few months. Later I also started reading ESMB.

In April 2008 I once again read the news about COS, and found out about the TC video and Anonymous. Only a month later I registered at WWP (then Enturb) and ever since I have translated (German to English, Dutch - my native language - to English), and done lots of work for the big list and other research projects. You can check that out in my sig.

The "anti-COS-community" is an interesting bunch; lots of nice people doing a good thing: fighting a cult, helping exes go through the long and difficult process to start again think and decide for themselves, and start to live again. (I hope I am saying those last things right.)

To this day I cannot really explain why I am here. The best thing I can say about it is, that lots of people volunteer for a good cause. My collegae at work does it for the local soccer club, another one gives poor kids an opportunity to have a nice vacation. And I am fighting the cult. Also to this day I am not really satisfied with this explanation myself, but I don't have (and I don't think will ever have) a better one.

 

[MrNobody]

<snip>
Not sure who Arnie is...
<snip>

Hi CA,
Arnie is Arnie Lerma. ESMB user name: lermanet_com
http://www.forum.exscn.net/search.php?searchid=3058938
You can find lots of interesting information on his webpage lermanet.com

 

[Crashed Alien]

I was never in, I never lost anyone near to the cult, the Amsterdam org is 200 km away. So I have asked myself that question lots of times.

When I was about 16 (I am 45 now) I heard about COS for the first time. I was told it was bad news, and I didn't go find out for myself. I once (must have been 20 or so) tried to read DMSMH (Book One) but I never finished it; too much crap, I couldn't stand it. In 1997 or 1998 I started lurking on OCMB every now and then, starting 2002 I did that every few months. Later I also started reading ESMB.

In April 2008 I once again read the news about COS, and found out about the TC video and Anonymous. Only a month later I registered at WWP (then Enturb) and ever since I have translated (German to English, Dutch - my native language - to English), and done lots of work for the big list and other research projects. You can check that out in my sig.

The "anti-COS-community" is an interesting bunch; lots of nice people doing a good thing: fighting a cult, helping exes go through the long and difficult process to start again think and decide for themselves, and start to live again. (I hope I am saying those last things right.)

To this day I cannot really explain why I am here. The best thing I can say about it is, that lots of people volunteer for a good cause. My collegae at work does it for the local soccer club, another one gives poor kids an opportunity to have a nice vacation. And I am fighting the cult. Also to this day I am not really satisfied with this explanation myself, but I don't have (and I don't think will ever have) a better one.

TrevAnon,

Sorry for delay in reply... Life, you know...

Interesting... Thank you for the explanation; I did not mean to put you on the spot, I was just curious.

I wish you well...

Crash

 

[Crashed Alien]

Hi CA,
Arnie is Arnie Lerma. ESMB user name: lermanet_com
http://www.forum.exscn.net/search.php?searchid=3058938
You can find lots of interesting information on his webpage lermanet.com

MrNobody,

Thanks fr the link and the website.

The link is broken but the web site was fascinating...

I will go through it in detail...

Cheers for that...

Crash

 

[beekay]

This is incredible. The OP posted only once about 1-1/2 yr ago, yet the thread is 64 pages long.
I have been giving things a lot of thought since my first post here.
I was 'out' since '80 and even then I was 'in' for only around a year. But recently I nearly became convinced to re-join!
A disgruntled former friend gave my contact info to the CoS as a way of getting over on me, and I actually purchaced some material from them! If it weren't for some of the stuff I've been reading online, I probably would have followed through and began taking extension courses.

Reading what I have here has really got me thinking.
This may sound odd, but one of the main reasons for my leaving back in '80 was because I just had a hard time accepting the most very basic stuff of LRHs beliefs/teachings.
The purpose of life = To Survive
Life is basically a static? ... That sort of stuff.
And then I'd ask someone to explain and I'd end up being told that VD is verboten, and I'd have to buy a certain book or take a course for an explanation.
And the CofS intends to clear the PLANET? Gimme a break!
I bought some of the less expensive courses and moved in with some other members for a while.

So there were a lot of beliefs and policies that I found unacceptable for any religion that I were to be committed to.
But while I was there I met a good many individuals who were truly impressive to me, the majority of them were a great deal further up the bridge than I was. And aside from being very rational and capable from my viewpoint, they were actually willing to sit there and engage in conversation and allow a person to complete an explanation or a thought without interruption or talking over someone. And for some reason I found these people trustworthy and I believed that if they told me something's true, it probably would be, at least to a certain extent.

I don't have time to elaborate on this as much as I'd like to, but I'll do my best, considering.

What causes me confusion and some disappointment even at this point is having to adjust to the idea that I was surrounded, for a brief period of time (when I was in) by a bunch of people who were brainwashed into behaving more compently than any bunch of people I'd ever been around prior to that.
I mean these Scientology friends of mine were some truly impressive human beings, and now I'm finding out they were brainwashed. And I nearly was. Outside of having other ideas on how I'd like to spend my money, I may have been won over, just on the personal integrity of the group of friends I met briefly back in '80.

So I'm saying that I'm having a difficult time wrapping my mind about this at times. And I'm seeing that for those who'd been involved for a long time period, some even for life, it must be traumatic to be discovering that the study that you've dedicated so much of your time to, essentially made into your life's work, is a sham... A castle built on a foundation of sand.
It couldn't be anything other than devastating, infuriating, catastrophic, terrifying.

But in addition to that, there was a certain sense of mine that has been telling me all this time that if Ken and Randy and Linda and Paul and Kathy and George and Gerry and so many others, can believe in this, there has to be some truth to it, and some day I'd get back to it and find out more... (Even though I know that isn't how you're supposed to do it)
So I've always considered Sci to be my religion but I put it on the back burner for 3.3 decades. Now I gotta figure what I'm supposed to do.
I'm a total washout as far as Scientologists are concerned
I'm like a deserter, a dilatante. A rat who deserted a sinking ship before it left port because I saw some leaks that other less fortunate rats didn't see.
Or maybe I'd be in an entirely different place right now if I'd found a 2-D who was 'in' back then ... Who knows?

For some reason I'm finding myself adjusting to this at this time. But I'm spending a lot of time chewing on the 'Baby/Bathwater' analogy. I just realize that there has to be something to the training that is available there because I personally witnessed some awfully great people there.
Sure, they could have gotten the same training elsewhere. And they didn't end up being immortal the way LRH said it would be.
Baby...
Bathwater
Baby...
Bathwater
Baby...
Bathwater

Religion... Superstition Lies... Truth?

 

[TrevAnon]

This is incredible. The OP posted only once about 1-1/2 yr ago, yet the thread is 64 pages long.

Stratospheric = Crashed Alien

 

[Crashed Alien]

Stratospheric = Crashed Alien

TrevAnon,

Yes, that is true - I suppose I was having a bit of an identity crisis at the beginning...

Thanks for clarifying... and for caring.

Crash.