Cannot reach escape velocity

[Cherished]

This thread makes me feel so much love for you guys. This is ESMB at its best.

Thanks for the wonderful, warm advice especially from John and Sue. And Crashed, I think what you're hearing in the advice is people's unselfish care for you - because as much as we like to hear people's stories, we never want you or anyone to feel pressured to tell.

The advice to take care of yourself and to be kind to yourself is very wise. It may go against what you've been told or trained to do. But it's not selfish to take good care of yourself or to be gentle with yourself. It's wisdom. We all have seasons in our lives when we need to rest, to not produce as much fruit, to restore our nutrients, to lie fallow. Without winter, there would be no spring.

<3

 

[solo]

John

I just IM'd you.. Thank you for your advice, it is really good, really excellent.

You are right... I am stirring a lot of shit up and it needs to be stirred, painful or not... Catharsis is not a bad thing - It is good to discharge, even if painful.

So I tentatively take my first step.

Small steps you say, hey? Not sure if this will be small, or if I will just fall on my face! This journey is one that I thought I'd never take; it looks pretty daunting to me right now...

Well I have been having a lot of things happen over many years so I have been looking back at recent events to try and see what was different, why had I made the decision to look around properly (although I thought I had been!)

Basically, what happened to get me to start up the engines and attempt to reach escape velocity, which I am inching nearer and nearer to achieving...

It came to a head quite recently. I had reconnected with some old friends who had "made themselves scarce" to protect me from getting in trouble!

I still cringe when I recall the moment that I realised this... I had been unable to find them! I had looked but they had vanished.

I finally managed through friends reunited of all places!

They were as warm and friendly as they had ever been. It was natural and as it should be when friends reunite after not seeing each other for a day, or a decade (or three!).

They were a little surprised that I had approached them and that I wanted to re-establish a comm line and be friendly... They were actually very suspicious and I suppose I fully understand that. I would have been too had the situation been reversed!

They tried to tell me about their position in relation to the church, I listened and let them tell me as I was, and am actually very interested in everything they had to say... Really interested.

But I made it clear that I was not there for that. I just wanted to knw that they were OK really...

They seemed almost shocked when I wanted to know how they were, what their family was dong and how it had changed and grown. And we spent time catching up on a 30 year gap.

God I have missed them, and I lament the separation...

Then I decided to call another old friend who I had not seen for a very long time.

We got chatting and finally, after dancing around handbags for a while, met up.

It was as if we had seen each other only yesterday, except that it had been a very long time.

We spoke for hours and hours and caught up a little - There is still a long way to go and I am savouring every second of it. Every single second!

He tried hard not to let it out, but there were tell-tale signs that things that could not have happen "in my world" had been happening in the "real world". But he was not bitter, in fact, he was so positive it was exhilarating... and I found myself suddenly awake, I was no longer asleep!

We must not take such love for granted! It is why we are here... I say that from the depth of my soul and not as a hippy cliché...

Again, it was natural. He was warm, welcoming and just himself and I was the same and it needed no effort or pretence! He offered me help and gave me help without reservation.

We laughed, I laughed genuinely and wholeheartedly for the first time in many, many years... It was so good...

We spoke without reservation, we had opposing views as well aligned views, just as friends do! and yet we managed to enjoy each other in a deep and what I can only describe as loving way - Not loving as in lovers, but loving as in soul-mates, loving as in true friends who do not have to be with each other, but enjoy it and want to be together when it is possible.

And I realised that I had not seen this for over 30 years! I had forgotten that it could exist... Had believed that I was incapable of such emotion. It was me, I had stopped allowing it!

That took the brakes off and take-off speed was reached instantly! No question... Engines were now well alight and I was heading skyward!

So that was recent...

That was the break-point.

I am exhausted now. I see what you mean...

Thank you... Thank you so much...

Crash.

Dear Crash,

I have been thinking about you all morning, especially about what you said here. I was heartbroken to think that you had been unable to experience such genuine and wholehearted emotions for so long. It must have been such an earth-shattering revelation for you to find your true friends were still there for you, outside the group which had assumed such importance in your life. I was so moved by your obvious love for these people from your past and your ability to express that love so eloquently.

Friendship is the most vital element in our lives, and yet so many of us have allowed the CoS to dictate who we could call our friends. Leaving the group is so painful, above all, because we are leaving behind friendships which have been forged during such an intense life experience, and it's impossible to replace them. Some people who I still count as true friends are still in the Sea Org, and I too haven't seen them for 30 years. I hope I can be there for them, when their moment of truth arrives.

Well, now you have found your real friends outside and you will be able to discuss many things you couldn't talk about before. I can see you are already enjoying that freedom!

I think the advice you have had about writing your story down but not posting it until you are ready is good. If you have family still in, you will know that there will be some unpleasantness to come if you show your identity here. Take your time to work out the best thing for you. It's always possible to talk about your life and your feelings without giving any specific names or places.

In the meantime, I hope you are having a lovely day, it's cold and sunny here!

love and best wishes for your journey,

Solo

 

[SweetnessandLight]

HI Crash! Thank you for sharing a bit more of your journey with us. Everyone has given you all good advice so far, from my perspective! There really is a lot of collective wisdom and caring here that's available to you as you are transitioning forward. I'm very grateful that ESMB exists to be helpful in this fashion. Thank you Emma!

Just a quick reminder that it is normal for you to be feeling up and down and all over the place as you are sorting things out for yourself...just give yourself time and be patient with yourself and your moods. You are in a transition, and no matter how uncomfortable things may feel in any given moment, they will shift and change, things will level out more in the future as you continue to process your feelings, so it is worthwhile to stay optimistic, as you said!

It's funny that we use the word Lurker here to describe someone who is reading more than they are writing, (or not posting at all yet, I lurked for a year! ) makes it sound as if lurking is something bad, like skulking in the bushes or something, huh? But nothing bad is implied. Keep reading, I think it will help you to hear other people's stories and learn about other viewpoints. It sure helped me!

I'm glad to hear you were able to reconnect with some good old friends...hopefully that will continue. One of the weirdest and most dysfunctional things about COS is the way that a person can be a hero one day, and in good standing, and in trouble the next and whisked off post or to the RPF or offloaded, etc. When people leave, they get no good-bye party and there is no closure on friendships, etc., they usually just disappear, and folks are reluctant to talk about them. No other group that I know does this with it's members! We have had a couple heart warming reunions here on the board, even! Maybe you will meet someone here that you used to know or work with, study with, etc.

A lot of people who leave COS still have good feelings about practicing parts of Scientology, as you do. I'm sure new social networks and new friendships along these lines will be available to you in the future, should you wish to pursue them! Peace be unto you!

About writing, don't force yourself to do it. Let it flow. Do it if it helps you to sort things out, get some clarity or to get some emotion out that you want or need to express. Start out easily by writing just as if you were telling stories to a friend over lunch, just do it episode by episode, stream of consciousness style (as it comes up for you to review). You don't have to post any of it here, ever, or you can wait a while until your real life circumstances are more clear, and the way you want them to be. If it's easier to talk out your stories, get a tape recorder and make tapes.

There are a lot of benefits to remaining anonymous on a big public board like this one. For the time being and the near future, it's probably in your best interest not to reveal too many details about your identity, until the family situation (or any others) are all sorted out. Most posters here remain anonymous and we don't think any less of them for that.

So, keep up the good work! It sounds like you are doing fine so far, even with the ups and downs.
Remember that you are doing this (posting here, and writing out your story, talking about COS, etc,) primarily to please yourself first. It's not like you have to report to anyone about this. That may be a bit of an alien concept for someone raised in COS. Just try and relax with it and take it easy. It will all come right in due time.

 

[Crashed Alien]

Way back, when I was taking my first steps out, a very wise Native American medicine woman said to me (we were net friends on a different board) that I was full of grief and distress and bad energy, and that would need to be drained out in order to be refilled with the good energy of love. (I thought I was so stoic and 'cause'!!) She described it to me in detail and said I would reach a place "where the wind blew through me". It was one of the most profound changes of view for me - to express emotion - and the start of my recovery.

I admit I didn't actually know how to... she said something like "just let it out as it comes". And so the tears began. Tears held in for decades, I cried on and off for 3 weeks. I even walked around with a towel over my shoulder, and as each crying jag ended I would sit in my garden and breathe in the beauty. I cried for the loss of innocence, the betrayals, the dramas I had endured, for my gullibility and Pollyanna views. And when it was done, the wind indeed 'blew through me' and I have great gratitude for such a beautiful soul across the planet caring enough to start me on the journey.

It is different now, there are many people to give support. No matter what you have endured, what challenges scientology threw at you, there is sure to be someone who has walked a similar path. Just knowing that is a comfort because the one thing scientology does to us all is make you think you are the only one who feels that way.

ps You don't have to answer everyone's post, especially if it stirs something up....you can click the Like or Thanks button instead and come back later if you want....it's really ok.

I really understand you... I am sort of there at the moment, only I did not have the foresight to carry a towel.

I understand your advice about responding to everyone, and I know I shouldn't have to. But at the moment, I will try to answer all posts, within reason just for the simple reason that they took the time to help me and I am so honoured and so humbled by their kindness at the moment that I want them to feel as special as I do...

I know there are a lot of people, but they have ALL been really kind.

I love the advice from the Native American Indian woman. I look forward to that day when I too might stand at the place "where the wind blows through me".

I can at least hope that it exists...

Crash

 

[Crashed Alien]

This thread makes me feel so much love for you guys. This is ESMB at its best.

Thanks for the wonderful, warm advice especially from John and Sue. And Crashed, I think what you're hearing in the advice is people's unselfish care for you - because as much as we like to hear people's stories, we never want you or anyone to feel pressured to tell.

The advice to take care of yourself and to be kind to yourself is very wise. It may go against what you've been told or trained to do. But it's not selfish to take good care of yourself or to be gentle with yourself. It's wisdom. We all have seasons in our lives when we need to rest, to not produce as much fruit, to restore our nutrients, to lie fallow. Without winter, there would be no spring.

<3

Cherished, I must admit that this is a really warm and caring community - It is not really what I had expected at all...

It is hard to take care of myself, I really can relate to this. All my life I have been "trained" not to"...

I actually feel bad doing things for me unless someone else benefits.

I will be resting myself, both physically and mentally...

Thank you for your advice, I am taking it...

Crash

 

[Crashed Alien]

Hallo Crash.

I realize Anonymous may not be your cup of tea, but this advice is given in the best intent:

If you have no specific and urgent reason to tell the CoS who you are, don't.

You are now (as you are no doubt aware of) in a vulnerable situation. I do not want to scare you, but the fears you cite are valid and real.

Your anonymity may possibly be your best friend right now. Protect it.

You don't have to tell anyone anything. You are under no obligation to reveal who you are here or on any other website. We have no use for your name, your location or your phone number. From your descriptions, you old friends seem not to mind whether you are in or out, so there's really no reason to tell them for the time being. Make sure you have the space you need to come to terms with what you need coming to terms with first, you can always "come out" later.

____________
An Anon

Thank you... That is really good advice to hear and I assure you that it is taken in good faith; I have dropped having preconceived ideas based on names, rumours or whatever - If you are part of Anonymous (and I assume you are by your avatar) then I feel quite honoured that you would take time to give me advice.

All of this is stripping of layers of false data and dehumanising people by pigeon-holing them, or categorising them in order to make them less... Another thing I no longer do.

Not sure whether I do or do not agree with Anonymous or its approach... That is quite a deep question and a subject that I would love to discuss, but it might be better when I am a little more stable...

However, I agree with you that my identity should remain anonymous, for a while at least... It seems as if I can be a lot more open knowing that no one knows who I am yet.

It also protects my family and friends from any repercussions, which is more important to me right now.

I think that your advice to "not tell the CofS" is sound... And I shall also take that advice to heart.

You are observant and perceptive: My old friends do not to mind whether I am in or out. I also see no reason to tell them at the moment.

I also appreciate and agree with your advice to make sure that I have the space that I need to come to terms this change of viewpoint, this awakening.

I also love your term to when you said that I can always "come out" later. Made me chortle a bit...

Thank you, you gave me a lot of advice and showed quite a deep understanding of my current situation in a concise way... I really appreciate your care and your kindness...

Crash

 

[Crashed Alien]

Dear Crash,

I have been thinking about you all morning, especially about what you said here. I was heartbroken to think that you had been unable to experience such genuine and wholehearted emotions for so long. It must have been such an earth-shattering revelation for you to find your true friends were still there for you, outside the group which had assumed such importance in your life. I was so moved by your obvious love for these people from your past and your ability to express that love so eloquently.

Friendship is the most vital element in our lives, and yet so many of us have allowed the CoS to dictate who we could call our friends. Leaving the group is so painful, above all, because we are leaving behind friendships which have been forged during such an intense life experience, and it's impossible to replace them. Some people who I still count as true friends are still in the Sea Org, and I too haven't seen them for 30 years. I hope I can be there for them, when their moment of truth arrives.

Well, now you have found your real friends outside and you will be able to discuss many things you couldn't talk about before. I can see you are already enjoying that freedom!

I think the advice you have had about writing your story down but not posting it until you are ready is good. If you have family still in, you will know that there will be some unpleasantness to come if you show your identity here. Take your time to work out the best thing for you. It's always possible to talk about your life and your feelings without giving any specific names or places.

In the meantime, I hope you are having a lovely day, it's cold and sunny here!

love and best wishes for your journey,

Solo

Solo,

Thank you for having felt for me... It is interesting, the awakening that I am having... It really was quite sobering to realise that I was still as loved and still as welcomed as I always had been...

I really do feel quite ashamed for not having woken up earlier, even though I never disconnected... I really cannot describe my feelings when it dawned on me that they had made themselves scarce to save me from that.

I hope you still hear from, or hear about your friends still in the Sea Org, it would be awful if you couldn't.

It is hard enough finding out where people are and what happened to them when you are in good standing, so I imagine it might be harder once one has been ex-communicated...

Let me know if you need any help with this, I might be able to find out where people are, or how they are doing... I do not have a lot of influence or contacts, but there is no harm in asking.. I am happy for you to IM me if you are comfortable with that.

It is good to be able to walk my own path and fully make my own decisions... I am still having difficulty breaking the bods, but I think that these are now minor compares to me waking up...

I still have to try and unravel my past which is knotted up like a ball of wool... That is hard as lots of things are out of sequence and blank...

Perhaps time will help, I do not know.

I may write my story in private and then publish it in some way... Not sure if anyone would be that interested, but I might try that avenue... Not sure right now.

Thank you for your help, for holding out a hand to me.

It is also sunny and cold here, there was a good frost this morning!

Crash

 

[Crashed Alien]

HI Crash! Thank you for sharing a bit more of your journey with us. Everyone as given you all good advice so far, from my perspective! There really is a lot of collective wisdom and caring here that's available to you as you are transitioning forward. I'm very grateful that ESMB exists to be helpful in this fashion. Thank you Emma!

Just a quick reminder that it is normal for you to be feeling up and down and all over the place as you are sorting things out for yourself...just give yourself time and be patient with yourself and your moods. You are in a transition, and no matter how uncomfortable things may feel in any given moment, they will shift and change, things will level out more in the future as you continue to process your feelings, so it is worthwhile to stay optimistic, as you said!

It's funny that we use the word Lurker here to describe someone who is reading more than they are writing, (or not posting at all yet, I lurked for a year! ) makes it sound as if lurking is something bad, like skulking in the bushes or something, huh? But nothing bad is implied. Keep reading, I think it will help you to hear other people's stories and learn about other viewpoints. It sure helped me!

I'm glad to hear you were able to reconnect with some good old friends...hopefully that will continue. One of the weirdest and most dysfunctional things about COS is the way that a person can be a hero one day, and in good standing, and in trouble the next and whisked off post or to the RPF or offloaded, etc. When people leave, they get no good-bye party and there is no closure on friendships, etc., they usually just disappear, and folks are reluctant to talk about them. No other group that I know does this with it's members! We have had a couple heart warming reunions here on the board, even! Maybe you will meet someone here that you used to know or work with, study with, etc.

A lot of people who leave COS still have good feelings about practicing parts of Scientology, as you do. I'm sure new social networks and new friendships along these lines will be available to you in the future, should you wish to pursue them! Peace be unto you!

About writing, don't force yourself to do it. Let it flow. Do it if it helps you to sort things out, get some clarity or to get some emotion out that you want or need to express. Start out easily by writing just as if you were telling stories to a friend over lunch, just do it episode by episode, stream of consciousness style (as it comes up for you to review). You don't have to post any of it here, ever, or you can wait a while until your real life circumstances are more clear, and the way you want them to be. If it's easier to talk out your stories, get a tape recorder and make tapes.

There are a lot of benefits to remaining anonymous on a big public board like this one. For the time being and the near future, it's probably in your best interest not to reveal too many details about your identity, until the family situation (or any others) are all sorted out. Most posters here remain anonymous and we don't think any less of them for that.

So, keep up the good work! It sounds like you are doing fine so far, even with the ups and downs.
Remember that you are doing this (posting here, and writing out your story, talking about COS, etc,) primarily to please yourself first. It's not like you have to report to anyone about this. That may be a bit of an alien concept for someone raised in COS. Just try and relax with it and take it easy. I will all come right in due time.

I also lurked for a year or so... But that was also difficult as it just felt like a huge withhold. I certainly did not tell anyone, let alone my family and friends in the organisation... God! Can you imagine! I felt bad reading and looking, as if I was betraying someone, or something. It was as if I was tainting myself just by being here.

You are so nice to me, everyone here has been. I find it hard to believe, as if the bubble will burst and I will look up to find everyone is just messing with me...

No offence, that is not what I believe, just that I have this nagging feeling from somewhere... It is as if I am not allowed to have anyone be nice to me any more unless they want something.

Sad really... I hope that goes as I have no reason to have this feeling from anyone here at all... It is irrational, yet in my mind it is completely rational...

I just read what I wrote - I do feel like a fruit cake at times... However, I will leave that line above alone, even if you think me quite mad.

I really find it hard to believe how many people here have taken the time and effort to help me get back on my feet. They have not been judgemental or horrid at all...

There are loads of people who did not make an actual reply, but thanked me and said they liked what I was saying, that was amazing...

It also amazes me that there are so many people, really good people! who are willing to help me even though they do not know who I am!

I hope that I can help others as much as you have al helped me already.

Thank you for your advice and reassurance on remaining anonymous. I will take that advice to heart and will not reveal my identity at the moment.

It was really good of you to let me know that most people remain anonymous and that they are not thought less of. That made me feel a lot better - I sort of felt like I should say, like it was my duty to do so... Another madness!

I am truly grateful to you and to the friends I have found here. I feel that this has helped me a lot and I am feeling a lot better that I had been, for today at least!

Onwards and upwards... One step at a time, but I am taking the steps now.

Crash

 

[Ogsonofgroo]

Belated Crash & Stratopheric

Nope, you won't find many people out trolling newbies around here, its pretty rare unless said newbie is an obvious plant/troll, otherwise folks tend to be quite civil and very caring, many of them having gone through the same sorts of emotions, doubts, insecurities, dimensions, and everything the cult has dealt to them.
Then there are folks like me, a never in (who has known one hard-core scientologist and several escapees over the years), done my research (and am admittedly an ardent critic and Hubbard disliker), who is a curious and empathical kind and generally cares about people, no matter who.
Enjoy your visits and get to know some peeps, unwind in your own time and iffin you feel like telling us a story or three, please do! ~ We loves stories!

and happy healings!

Ogs

 

[Axiom142]

Hi Crash,

A (very) belated welcome to ESMB.

I particularly like the way you changed your name after the first post, just to keep us on our toes.

I like your new name very much actually – when I finally left the cult behind me, I felt like I had been transported to a completely different world. Very much like a crashed alien in fact. I came from a (supposedly) more technologically advanced civilisation and was dumped into a strange new world, with no way of going back.

Of course, I didn’t want to go back, but that’s another matter…

It’s always great to see new ‘faces’ here – especially fellow Brits. I mean, I like the Aussies, Kiwis, Yanks and, well all the others – but they aren’t really civilised like us are they?

I can understand some of what you have gone through over the past few months. When I really started waking up at the end of 2007 / start of 2008, it was as though my whole world had been pulled from under me and it felt like I had to re-evaluate everything I had learned in my whole life. Obviously not really everything – just the Scieno stuff and when I did, I found that most of it was either complete BS or without any kind of supporting evidence. Don’t get me wrong, there is a load of stuff I do like - basic ethics theory, Admin scales and other similar stuff, Objectives processing and Grades processes – it’s just the implementation in the CoS that I find offensive. Funny, but sometimes I think that I am a Scientologist who doesn’t call himself a Scientologist. Weird.

Anyway, when I finally summoned the courage to finally quit the cult for good early in 2008 (and burned my bridges / Bridge just to make sure) it was a very confusing time for me. Having ESMB as a place to communicate with others who had gone through the same stuff was such a relief. I don’t know how I would have coped if it hadn’t been for all the support that I got here.

Actually, that doesn’t really explain what I went through. Rage, joy, grief, anger (lots of that, some at myself, some at those blindly following orders, but not so much now), complete disorientation, pant-wetting laughter – you name it, I experienced it. And came out the other side.

I first arrived at St Hill in June ’86 and was around for most of the next 22 years, so it is possible that we bumped into each other, and it appears that we are very close in age as well – I was born in the latter part of 1963.

I appreciate what you said about wanting to be friends with those still ‘in’. I had the same thoughts. Unfortunately, in light of subsequent experiences, I’m not sure that is possible. The cultic mentality extant in the er, cult, poisons people’s minds against those that is considers ‘enemies’ (and if you understand how a cult operates, you will realise why they need enemies). From my experience, you cannot trust a CoS Scientologist once you leave the CoS. That might sound like an awful thing to say about people who are uniformly good and well-meaning, but you have to realise where their loyalties lie. They think they are rushing headlong to put out a fire – if you get in the way, they will run you down without any remorse. Doesn’t mean that we should be nice to or understanding of them though.

I look forward to hearing more from you soon.

Axiom142

 

[Crashed Alien]

Belated Crash & Stratopheric

Nope, you won't find many people out trolling newbies around here, its pretty rare unless said newbie is an obvious plant/troll, otherwise folks tend to be quite civil and very caring, many of them having gone through the same sorts of emotions, doubts, insecurities, dimensions, and everything the cult has dealt to them.
Then there are folks like me, a never in (who has known one hard-core scientologist and several escapees over the years), done my research (and am admittedly an ardent critic and Hubbard disliker), who is a curious and empathical kind and generally cares about people, no matter who.
Enjoy your visits and get to know some peeps, unwind in your own time and iffin you feel like telling us a story or three, please do! ~ We loves stories!

and happy healings!

Ogs

Thank you... Please to hear from you.

Yes, my name is Crash... Sorry about the confusion

I don't think that I would class myself as a Hubbard Disliker - But I respect your view and, may share it some day - I suppose that might also be reversed?

I am no longer set in my ways. I am open to pretty much any view and will take it at face value... If I don't like it, then I would need a reason not to!

I am happy to say that we do share one much more important thing though, I also care about people, no matter who they are!

The experiences that I am having here are mind-bogglingly good and I really am looking forward to the next...

I wish you well to.

Crash

 

[Ogsonofgroo]

Oh, so you were Statospheric to begin with? My bad for not reading the whole thread

 

[Crashed Alien]

Axiom142

Thank you so much - That is really kind of you! To answer...

I particularly like the way you changed your name after the first post, just to keep us on our toes.

I know, it was amazingly weird - I suppose a true indicator of my mindset at the time - Pretty messed up. I am using the name Crashed Alien now, or "Crash" for short... Sorry about the confusion!

It’s always great to see new ‘faces’ here – especially fellow Brits. I mean, I like the Aussies, Kiwis, Yanks and, well all the others – but they aren’t really civilised like us are they?

LOL, Excellent! We are, of course far above them! Truth is I love the Criminals, the Kiwis and the Septics... I really do...

Anyway, when I finally summoned the courage to finally quit the cult for good early in 2008 (and burned my bridges / Bridge just to make sure) it was a very confusing time for me. Having ESMB as a place to communicate with others who had gone through the same stuff was such a relief. I don’t know how I would have coped if it hadn’t been for all the support that I got here.

I am really surprised at how nice, warm and helpful these people are. I am also slightly embarrassed that I am surprised. After all, when I start looking at truth, it is me who has been blinkered and cold... I wonder if I deserve such help even though I have never personally disconnected from anyone ever, despite the trouble that caused!

I can understand some of what you have gone through over the past few months. When I really started waking up at the end of 2007 / start of 2008, it was as though my whole world had been pulled from under me and it felt like I had to re-evaluate everything I had learned in my whole life. Obviously not really everything – just the Scieno stuff and when I did, I found that most of it was either complete BS or without any kind of supporting evidence. Don’t get me wrong, there is a load of stuff I do like - basic ethics theory, Admin scales and other similar stuff, Objectives processing and Grades processes – it’s just the implementation in the CoS that I find offensive. Funny, but sometimes I think that I am a Scientologist who doesn’t call himself a Scientologist. Weird.

Yes... that is really interesting to me. I am in a similar boat... I also cannot reconcile what I am seeing with policy but really love the tech... I have, up to now been calling myself a Scientologist, but what you said is almost exactly how I feel, word for word... "I am a Scientologist who doesn’t call himself a Scientologist" - It is not weird to me, not at all... In fact it is so much the opposite of weird.

[Actually, that doesn’t really explain what I went through. Rage, joy, grief, anger (lots of that, some at myself, some at those blindly following orders, but not so much now), complete disorientation, pant-wetting laughter – you name it, I experienced it. And came out the other side.

I am not out the other side yet, but am happy that it is allegedly there... More on this another time as am pretty angry about certain things today... .

I first arrived at St Hill in June ’86 and was around for most of the next 22 years, so it is possible that we bumped into each other, and it appears that we are very close in age as well – I was born in the latter part of 1963.

I hope we did, and I hope we will again... In time... Even if we didn't, it is a great thought anyway...

I appreciate what you said about wanting to be friends with those still ‘in’. I had the same thoughts. Unfortunately, in light of subsequent experiences, I’m not sure that is possible. The cultic mentality extant in the er, cult, poisons people’s minds against those that is considers ‘enemies’ (and if you understand how a cult operates, you will realise why they need enemies). From my experience, you cannot trust a CoS Scientologist once you leave the CoS. That might sound like an awful thing to say about people who are uniformly good and well-meaning, but you have to realise where their loyalties lie. They think they are rushing headlong to put out a fire – if you get in the way, they will run you down without any remorse. Doesn’t mean that we should be nice to or understanding of them though.

I think I understand exactly what you are saying here, believe me... Yet this is hard, possibly the hardest part of all and I cannot tell you how much I appreciate you putting it into words. I know what you have said is true, but I have friends and family still in.

Reluctantly, I have to admit that I do not know what to do about this.

I am glad that you are healing and are here...

Crash

 

[Crashed Alien]

Oh, so you were Statospheric to begin with? My bad for not reading the whole thread

Yes, Sorry about that - Started as Stratospheric, then decided on Crashed Alien... Apologies for the confusion - It was not deliberate, just a moment of madness...

Crash

 

[Axiom142]

…

I think I understand exactly what you are saying here, believe me... Yet this is hard, possibly the hardest part of all and I cannot tell you how much I appreciate you putting it into words. I know what you have said is true, but I have friends and family still in.

Reluctantly, I have to admit that I do not know what to do about this.

I am glad that you are healing and are here...

Crash

Crash,

If you have family ‘in’, then this complicates things. Fortunately I don’t and this made things a lot easier. Of course, I had – or rather chose - to explain to them what had happened to me and why I left the cult, but that’s another story…

Don’t be afraid of admitting that you are not sure what to do. That’s life in the real world. Sometimes I think that this is one of the attractions of life in a cult – you don’t have to think or make decisions, just do what you are told. This can be very comforting but will also wreck your life.

Just take each day as it comes. Recognise that you have a lot of learning to do, you will undoubtedly change your viewpoint on many important things, perhaps several times! It doesn’t have to happen all at once. This will probably be a confusing process for you but once you start on that road – as you have done – then there is no going back. You are one of the fortunate ones – you escaped.

Whatever you do, stay in communication with your family and friends. The way that I look at things, we have to view those still ‘in’ as having a sort of mental illness. They are not able to think properly when it comes to Scientology. So, you have to be very gentle.

Remember that you are not alone, others have trod the same path and survived. Good luck.

Axiom142

 

[solo]

Solo,

Thank you for having felt for me... It is interesting, the awakening that I am having... It really was quite sobering to realise that I was still as loved and still as welcomed as I always had been...

I really do feel quite ashamed for not having woken up earlier, even though I never disconnected... I really cannot describe my feelings when it dawned on me that they had made themselves scarce to save me from that.

I hope you still hear from, or hear about your friends still in the Sea Org, it would be awful if you couldn't.

It is hard enough finding out where people are and what happened to them when you are in good standing, so I imagine it might be harder once one has been ex-communicated...

Let me know if you need any help with this, I might be able to find out where people are, or how they are doing... I do not have a lot of influence or contacts, but there is no harm in asking.. I am happy for you to IM me if you are comfortable with that.

It is good to be able to walk my own path and fully make my own decisions... I am still having difficulty breaking the bods, but I think that these are now minor compares to me waking up...

I still have to try and unravel my past which is knotted up like a ball of wool... That is hard as lots of things are out of sequence and blank...

Perhaps time will help, I do not know.

I may write my story in private and then publish it in some way... Not sure if anyone would be that interested, but I might try that avenue... Not sure right now.

Thank you for your help, for holding out a hand to me.

It is also sunny and cold here, there was a good frost this morning!

Crash

Hi again,

you should never feel shame for not having realised sooner what was going on. Each of us awakens in our own time, there is no blame in that and no-one can walk your path for you.

Thank you so much for thinking to care about my loss of my friends. I have to say I only hear of them by chance from time to time. Several of them are still at Saint Hill, even after 30 years. I wonder if they ever think of me, as I think of them, still trudging round on the same treadmill, thinking they are saving mankind. I am sorry to say that I feel their lives have been wasted, but who am I to make that judgment?.

My moment of truth came when I read "Bare Faced Messiah" and found I had been robbed of ten years of my life. I'm sorry to say, Crash, that my realisation means that these friends may never want to know me. I know that, but still I value them and our time together.

Perhaps if you have any news of them, you could post it here, as others would be glad to hear anything of interest;

Hazel Grafton, Peter Morgan, Liz Cotton, Pauline Chatterton, Angela Berthoud.

Also, gone from St Hill but still perhaps in the SO:

Monica Quirino, Margaret Ainsworth and her daughers, Sarah and Emma, and Raef Warren (last heard of on the RPF on the Freewinds).

Thank you so much, and good luck with your quest.

Keep working on unravelling your past. One day it may all make sense to you. Of course people will be interested to hear about it when the time is right.

Solo

ps still freezing here!

 

[Crashed Alien]

Hi again,

you should never feel shame for not having realised sooner what was going on. Each of us awakens in our own time, there is no blame in that and no-one can walk your path for you.

Thank you so much for thinking to care about my loss of my friends. I have to say I only hear of them by chance from time to time. Several of them are still at Saint Hill, even after 30 years. I wonder if they ever think of me, as I think of them, still trudging round on the same treadmill, thinking they are saving mankind. I am sorry to say that I feel their lives have been wasted, but who am I to make that judgment?.

My moment of truth came when I read "Bare Faced Messiah" and found I had been robbed of ten years of my life. I'm sorry to say, Crash, that my realisation means that these friends may never want to know me. I know that, but still I value them and our time together.

Perhaps if you have any news of them, you could post it here, as others would be glad to hear anything of interest;

Hazel Grafton, Peter Morgan, Liz Cotton, Pauline Chatterton, Angela Berthoud.

Also, gone from St Hill but still perhaps in the SO:

Monica Quirino, Margaret Ainsworth and her daughers, Sarah and Emma, and Raef Warren (last heard of on the RPF on the Freewinds).

Thank you so much, and good luck with your quest.

Keep working on unravelling your past. One day it may all make sense to you. Of course people will be interested to hear about it when the time is right.

Solo

ps still freezing here!

Solo,

I am a bit late tonight - so apologies if this is a bit short...

BTW, I have not seen or hear from Monica Quirino - I was friends with he brother Marcus (if it is the same Monica)... Not sure what happened to him though.

Peter Morgan was fine last time I saw him, although that was a while ago - Over a year - I have known him forever and really like him, ... Liz Cotton is in the NOTs area and seems well... She has always been quite scary to me, ever since EEA days! If you recall those...

I either do not know the others, or their names are buried in my mind. I am better with faces than names... Not sure why.

I hope that makes you feel a little better anyway, sorry I could not tell you more.

Crash

 

[solo]

Solo,



BTW, I have not seen or hear from Monica Quirino - I was friends with he brother Marcus (if it is the same Monica)... Not sure what happened to him though.

Peter Morgan was fine last time I saw him, although that was a while ago - Over a year - I have known him forever and really like him, ... Liz Cotton is in the NOTs area and seems well... She has always been quite scary to me, ever since EEA days! If you recall those...


Crash

Hi Crash,

Monica Quirino is Marcus's Mum. I have heard that Marcus is either at Flag or Int, he was in a photo I saw somewhere. He did have a sister, but I'm struggling to think of her name. His father, Philip, was reported to be in a nursing home in the US.

Glad to hear Peter Morgan was fine when you saw him. He's not still in the Reg Office is he?! He is a lovely man, I do hope he is still in touch with all his four boys. I heard that the two eldest were in Australia. Do you know Oliver Morgan? He's the youngest, so he'd be quite a bit younger than you. I always wondered what happened to him as he had a bad start in life.

I'm trying to think why you'd find Liz Cotton scary, but I guess she always could put on a fierce face when she was supervising! Glad to hear she's well, anyway. Do you know her daughter, Ruth? I think she's still in the SO and married. I can't think what the "EEA days" were (Maybe after my time? Or else my memory is having one of its little lapses!)

I would particularly like news of Pauline Chatterton, as a mutual friend has been asking me about her. She used to be the Cashier at Saint Hill, but I believe she is something "high up" on finance lines now, so might not be very visible to the public.

Anyway, thanks again for your help, it's much appreciated.

Solo

 

[Crashed Alien]

Hi Crash,

Monica Quirino is Marcus's Mum. I have heard that Marcus is either at Flag or Int, he was in a photo I saw somewhere. He did have a sister, but I'm struggling to think of her name. His father, Philip, was reported to be in a nursing home in the US.

Glad to hear Peter Morgan was fine when you saw him. He's not still in the Reg Office is he?! He is a lovely man, I do hope he is still in touch with all his four boys. I heard that the two eldest were in Australia. Do you know Oliver Morgan? He's the youngest, so he'd be quite a bit younger than you. I always wondered what happened to him as he had a bad start in life.

I'm trying to think why you'd find Liz Cotton scary, but I guess she always could put on a fierce face when she was supervising! Glad to hear she's well, anyway. Do you know her daughter, Ruth? I think she's still in the SO and married. I can't think what the "EEA days" were (Maybe after my time? Or else my memory is having one of its little lapses!)

I would particularly like news of Pauline Chatterton, as a mutual friend has been asking me about her. She used to be the Cashier at Saint Hill, but I believe she is something "high up" on finance lines now, so might not be very visible to the public.

Anyway, thanks again for your help, it's much appreciated.

Solo

Solo,

It just came to me, Marcus had a sister - She was Tanya!...

Liz was scary in a nice way really - I am very fond of her so son't take it the wrong way... Just memories of when she used to give us hell at EEA (Effective Learning Association).

I do not really have any more news...

Crash

 

[Crashed Alien]

I have to admit that I am feeling a little ropey again today - Not sure why... Possibly things being stirred up... I am in a bit of a state really...

Not sure if I can leave, not sure if I have it in me... Stratosphere is looking a long way off again.

I did not know it would be like this...

Do I have to choose?

Am I just sinking back into a comfort zone?

Everything has changed, I have had a shift of viewpoint, I know that... I also know that I can't go back; that world I knew no longer exists (Not sure if it ever did now).

So I don't feel I can leave, but what was there is gone so I can't really go back either...

Bloody Hell!

Sorry...

Crash