Cant leave...

Knows

Gold Meritorious Patron
I'm curious - for what reason?

I've heard that Lisa McPherson had chloral hydrate squirted down her throat with a turkey baster, and that the food on the Freewinds was laced. For all the antipsychiatry rhetoric, I think that the unlicensed practice of psychiatry by Scientologists secretly dosing up other Scientologists scares me a lot more than the psychs.

My question is this - how common is this practice, and do Publics get dosed up on the Failwinds? I just have seen people coming back from that boat so seriously fucked up. Much more fucked up than they come back from AOLA, which can also be counted on to fuck them up good.

I don't mean to derail - I'm just trying to make sense of what I personally experienced.

EVERYTHING Scientology accuses others of doing - they are doing themselves. If you want to stay and play Russian Roulette with your mind - you are free to do that. But just know you don't know who or what in Scientology is going to push you over the edge. The longer you stay in doubt - the more cognitive dissonance you will experience when you finally get out. And everyone gets out one way or another....dead or alive. The question is how much pain do you wish to inflict on yourself?
 

TheSpectator

Patron with Honors
When I left, after 33 years in good standing, I had no thought of losing friends to disconnection. My best friend was my daughter. It never occurred to me that she would disconnect from me.
The MAA AOLA, Gary Jacobs, asked me to take one of AO's Pre-OTs home with me and secretly dose him with Thorazine. I blew instantly. When I got home and told Spouse and Daughter what had happened, Daughter called me a liar. She then went to the City where we had lived and checked me out with Ex-Husband's wife and his friends. She also tried her newly learned FPRD withhold pulling crap with me. I was soloing on NOTs then, and she was Quicky Grades and Past Life Clear. Great. That wasn't happening. Anyways, since that time, there have been 4 people who corroborated the incident prompting me to leave. Just Google David Voorhies.
The babywatch of david Voorhies was the first time that I knew that the Isolation step of the Introspection R/D was being used. Since that time, 1983, we have had several reports of Isolation, and I have helped on 4 occasions to get ppl out of the clutches of COS who were being held. I've told y'all about Roxann Richards. Google is your friend. COS is not. Your good friends would be the ones who would babywatch you because they would think they were helping to "get your mind right".
You have asked for advice. My advice to you is to reverse the flow. Disconnect from COS.
They can lock you up. Kidnap you. Hide you. Sec Check you until you lose your sanity. Assign you an Auditor to run "black processes" on you. Get out while you can while you are whole. While you still have some integrity.
"To Thine own self, be true".

I Googled both David Voorhies & Roxann Richards but don't come up with anything about their treatment by Scientology. If you have a couple links that would be helpful.

Like you, I lost my kids through disconnection too. They were told lies about me by Scientology. The amazing thing was, I was NEVER told what I was accused of. It was only said that I'd done horrible things, that I'd committed crimes and I should know what they are! Of course I've no police record nor have I been arrested or gone to trial, but they believed I'd committed crimes. So I never had a chance to respond to Scientology's false accusations. Like the days of the Soviet Union, I was guilty and had to prove my innocence. Unbelievable!

Your disconnection was in 1983 and mine was around 2011. Things never change with Scientology, do they?
 

TheSpectator

Patron with Honors
I'm curious - for what reason?

I've heard that Lisa McPherson had chloral hydrate squirted down her throat with a turkey baster, and that the food on the Freewinds was laced. For all the antipsychiatry rhetoric, I think that the unlicensed practice of psychiatry by Scientologists secretly dosing up other Scientologists scares me a lot more than the psychs.

My question is this - how common is this practice, and do Publics get dosed up on the Failwinds? I just have seen people coming back from that boat so seriously fucked up. Much more fucked up than they come back from AOLA, which can also be counted on to fuck them up good.

I don't mean to derail - I'm just trying to make sense of what I personally experienced.

My experience from being a public at AOLA, Flag, and the Freewinds is that the drugging of public Scientologists by Scientology is rare, but it can happen. It's not standard treatment for most people who leave Scientology or breakdown.

I know one public person who had a small breakdown (sudden depression but not chronically so) while at Flag. There was no extreme treatment of the her; no suicide watch, seclusion or force feedings. Flag made her sign a document saying that she wouldn't hold Scientology responsible if she became suicidal. She got some light auditing and eventually snapped out of it. Funny enough, she told me later that the reason for the depression was that Scientology WASN'T working and she was blaming herself for its failure! As you can imagine, she's left Scientology too! :)
 

phenomanon

Canyon
I'm curious - for what reason?

I've heard that Lisa McPherson had chloral hydrate squirted down her throat with a turkey baster, and that the food on the Freewinds was laced. For all the antipsychiatry rhetoric, I think that the unlicensed practice of psychiatry by Scientologists secretly dosing up other Scientologists scares me a lot more than the psychs.

My question is this - how common is this practice, and do Publics get dosed up on the Failwinds? I just have seen people coming back from that boat so seriously fucked up. Much more fucked up than they come back from AOLA, which can also be counted on to fuck them up good.

I don't mean to derail - I'm just trying to make sense of what I personally experienced.

What Gary told me was that they (AOLA) has this PC( David Voorhies), the son of a Seattle Judge, who has "flipped out" on OT111 and is too enturbulative to have around the Org. Can you take him home with you and babysit him?" I asked gary how enturbulative is he? Is he screaming out of the incident"? Gary said "you don't have to worry about that. We have him on a Program. We are giving him Thorazine and we tell him that it is Vitamins."
I said" You are saying that you want me to take the son of a Portland Judge home with me and, unknown to him, give him Thorazine?!" I pass!
With that I went directly to the auditing room I shared with Manu Tupou ( I was a Cl 8 auditor in the HGC), gathered my meter and shield and materials, and left the Org. I haven't been back.
It's not the Group I joined.

I have no personal data on the frequency of the practice these days. I do know that it would be easy to fook anyone up who's on the Purif, or anyone who is ingesting "vitamins" dispensed by Scn'ists.
 

phenomanon

Canyon
I Googled both David Voorhies & Roxann Richards but don't come up with anything about their treatment by Scientology. If you have a couple links that would be helpful.

Like you, I lost my kids through disconnection too. They were told lies about me by Scientology. The amazing thing was, I was NEVER told what I was accused of. It was only said that I'd done horrible things, that I'd committed crimes and I should know what they are! Of course I've no police record nor have I been arrested or gone to trial, but they believed I'd committed crimes. So I never had a chance to respond to Scientology's false accusations. Like the days of the Soviet Union, I was guilty and had to prove my innocence. Unbelievable!

Your disconnection was in 1983 and mine was around 2011. Things never change with Scientology, do they?

No Google ?
Some tech savvy person here please give a link to posts by Challenge on ESMB referencing David Voorhies, and other posts re Roxann Richards. The stories were also on ARS . Some replies to Ladayla (me) from Warrior and from Gracie AAron and some others.
Those were once on Google ?!!#**%!
 

phenomanon

Canyon
I Googled both David Voorhies & Roxann Richards but don't come up with anything about their treatment by Scientology. If you have a couple links that would be helpful.

Like you, I lost my kids through disconnection too. They were told lies about me by Scientology. The amazing thing was, I was NEVER told what I was accused of. It was only said that I'd done horrible things, that I'd committed crimes and I should know what they are! Of course I've no police record nor have I been arrested or gone to trial, but they believed I'd committed crimes. So I never had a chance to respond to Scientology's false accusations. Like the days of the Soviet Union, I was guilty and had to prove my innocence. Unbelievable!

Your disconnection was in 1983 and mine was around 2011. Things never change with Scientology, do they?

No. It never changes.
I'm so sorry about your kids disconnection. Obviously, I have no advice on extricating them.
But here's a huge hug.
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
What Gary told me was that they (AOLA) has this PC( David Voorhies), the son of a Seattle Judge, who has "flipped out" on OT111 and is too enturbulative to have around the Org. Can you take him home with you and babysit him?" I asked gary how enturbulative is he? Is he screaming out of the incident"? Gary said "you don't have to worry about that. We have him on a Program. We are giving him Thorazine and we tell him that it is Vitamins."
I said" You are saying that you want me to take the son of a Portland Judge home with me and, unknown to him, give him Thorazine?!" I pass!
With that I went directly to the auditing room I shared with Manu Tupou ( I was a Cl 8 auditor in the HGC), gathered my meter and shield and materials, and left the Org. I haven't been back.
It's not the Group I joined.

I have no personal data on the frequency of the practice these days. I do know that it would be easy to fook anyone up who's on the Purif, or anyone who is ingesting "vitamins" dispensed by Scn'ists.

Good golly, Miss Molly!

Thanks for that story, Phenomenon.

TG1
 

Lorna

Patron
Hey guys, quick update! :biggrin:


I haven't been back to the org and I don't miss it. Every day I do still get the urge to go and finish my course anyway but it feels so good and liberating when I don't give in to that.
I've only been called once and I did answer but I said I hadn't been feeling well. Which is true by the way, ever since I started doubting the church and wanted to leave I've felt a little sick. I know they'll call again to check when I'm better and can come again but I'm postponing the trouble for now haha. I'm a little scared about ignoring them. I heard it's probably the best way to get them to stop trying to get in contact with me but I just haven't figured out how I'm going to handle this...
These past days I have done a lot of fun things. All of which on my own. I haven't told any of my Church friends that I'm leaving yet.
I still can't fully get my mind off all these mixed feelings (why I want to leave, why I want to stay, why I do like Scientology + Dianetics and why I don't, etc, etc) but this surely is more fun than what I used to do pretty much every day. I found this musical theatre group I wanted to join but unfortunately can't until September. So for now I spend my free time doing a whole bunch of different things. Today I suddenly got the great idea to go to the zoo and draw animals.
I like it this way. I'm doing alright :)
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Hey guys, quick update! :biggrin:


I haven't been back to the org and I don't miss it. Every day I do still get the urge to go and finish my course anyway but it feels so good and liberating when I don't give in to that.
I've only been called once and I did answer but I said I hadn't been feeling well. Which is true by the way, ever since I started doubting the church and wanted to leave I've felt a little sick. I know they'll call again to check when I'm better and can come again but I'm postponing the trouble for now haha. I'm a little scared about ignoring them. I heard it's probably the best way to get them to stop trying to get in contact with me but I just haven't figured out how I'm going to handle this...
These past days I have done a lot of fun things. All of which on my own. I haven't told any of my Church friends that I'm leaving yet.
I still can't fully get my mind off all these mixed feelings (why I want to leave, why I want to stay, why I do like Scientology + Dianetics and why I don't, etc, etc) but this surely is more fun than what I used to do pretty much every day. I found this musical theatre group I wanted to join but unfortunately can't until September. So for now I spend my free time doing a whole bunch of different things. Today I suddenly got the great idea to go to the zoo and draw animals.
I like it this way. I'm doing alright :)

This is great. I think it's also a good idea to not get into a bunch of explanations with them. Good job!!!!!
 

Knows

Gold Meritorious Patron
I Googled both David Voorhies & Roxann Richards but don't come up with anything about their treatment by Scientology. If you have a couple links that would be helpful.

Like you, I lost my kids through disconnection too. They were told lies about me by Scientology. The amazing thing was, I was NEVER told what I was accused of. It was only said that I'd done horrible things, that I'd committed crimes and I should know what they are! Of course I've no police record nor have I been arrested or gone to trial, but they believed I'd committed crimes. So I never had a chance to respond to Scientology's false accusations. Like the days of the Soviet Union, I was guilty and had to prove my innocence. Unbelievable!

Your disconnection was in 1983 and mine was around 2011. Things never change with Scientology, do they?

"The amazing thing was, I was NEVER told what I was accused of. It was only said that I'd done horrible things, that I'd committed crimes and I should know what they are!"

The reason you don't know what they are is because they are not crimes from a normal human beings viewpoint. The crimes Scientology is talking about is members were trying to get the Organization's ethics in....exposing the "outpoints" and not stopping. LRH says - the tech can't get in because ethics are out...and Scientology's ethics have been out for 64 years...hence, the tech doesn't work so Slappy keeps changing it. It is as simple as that.

Anyone doing that should continue. It is the right thing to do.
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
What Gary told me was that they (AOLA) has this PC( David Voorhies), the son of a Seattle Judge, who has "flipped out" on OT111 and is too enturbulative to have around the Org. Can you take him home with you and babysit him?" I asked gary how enturbulative is he? Is he screaming out of the incident"? Gary said "you don't have to worry about that. We have him on a Program. We are giving him Thorazine and we tell him that it is Vitamins."
I said" You are saying that you want me to take the son of a Portland Judge home with me and, unknown to him, give him Thorazine?!" I pass!
With that I went directly to the auditing room I shared with Manu Tupou ( I was a Cl 8 auditor in the HGC), gathered my meter and shield and materials, and left the Org. I haven't been back.
It's not the Group I joined.

I have no personal data on the frequency of the practice these days. I do know that it would be easy to fook anyone up who's on the Purif, or anyone who is ingesting "vitamins" dispensed by Scn'ists.

Did anyone ever tell the judge what had happened? Just curious as that could have been a real shitstorm for the cult.
 

Nicole

Silver Meritorious Patron
Hey guys, quick update! :biggrin:


I haven't been back to the org and I don't miss it. Every day I do still get the urge to go and finish my course anyway but it feels so good and liberating when I don't give in to that.
I've only been called once and I did answer but I said I hadn't been feeling well. Which is true by the way, ever since I started doubting the church and wanted to leave I've felt a little sick. I know they'll call again to check when I'm better and can come again but I'm postponing the trouble for now haha. I'm a little scared about ignoring them. I heard it's probably the best way to get them to stop trying to get in contact with me but I just haven't figured out how I'm going to handle this...

A littel story... Some days ago, I have heard a story from an Ex Jehovah's Witness: If a "Jehova's Witness" wants to leave the Cult, they have to go to a "commitee" and they have to explain, why they want to leave and often the people that formaly wanted to leave don't do it after they have visted this commitee. This Ex wanted to leave the Cult in a young age, he was so much scared about this "commitee" and that they will put him back into the Cult, that he has chosen the second way to leave this Cult. The second way to leave is to provoke a "booting out". It exists different ways to provoke this. To provoke this, he has chosen the way of doing unmarried sex. So he has found a "funny" and a very good way to leave this Cult, without any discussion. :coolwink:

Now back to Scientology, you might say "ah, Scientology is different", but every Cult does similar things. The callings (etc.) are Scientologys Commitee to bring you back on "course" and you also have some ways to react on them. Ignoring is one way... I would find a way, where you feel comfortable. If you are thinking, "oh, I can't discuss with them", "I have problems to say no", than you might find a way where you don't need to discuss or talk with them. :wink2:


These past days I have done a lot of fun things. All of which on my own. I haven't told any of my Church friends that I'm leaving yet.
I still can't fully get my mind off all these mixed feelings (why I want to leave, why I want to stay, why I do like Scientology + Dianetics and why I don't, etc, etc)

You have so much time to find the answers.... :yes:



but this surely is more fun than what I used to do pretty much every day. I found this musical theatre group I wanted to join but unfortunately can't until September. So for now I spend my free time doing a whole bunch of different things. Today I suddenly got the great idea to go to the zoo and draw animals.
I like it this way. I'm doing alright :)

I am so glad to hear this. :bighug:
 
I still have a problem though... I can't leave. I keep going to course and etc and have even planned new dates because I was too shy to tell anyone that I wanted to quit. I actually ended up doing even more with the church these days...
Also, I like my org and the people.

Hi,

I was once in your shoes as the Church had laid such a huge guilt on me. I felt so bad about leaving them in the lurch as they had so few staff to cover the main posts. I felt like such a deserter ... and yes they were surely my closest friends. But then were they really my friends? Or only being my friends while I agreed with them and went along with all. I eventually learnt it really was the latter as true. Friends stick by you and accept you for who you are.

Scientologists were only my friends if I did what I was approved of. You try and tell them you want to quit and they will come back hard with the doubt condition and many expensive handlings. Well expensive to you.

I remember after my last lot of auditing and finally leaving the Regs office just in one piece, after an ear bashing. For the next few days my phone rang incessantly probably 30= + times per day. I even thought twice about being as inconscpicuous as possible around my home although fortunately it was a long drive to the Org. I remember the times I was instructed to drive to peoples houses who started working at the Org, for a few weeks then blew. I was instructed to pick them up no matter what they wanted. The place is just way too crazy.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Hey guys, quick update! :biggrin:


I haven't been back to the org and I don't miss it. Every day I do still get the urge to go and finish my course anyway but it feels so good and liberating when I don't give in to that.
I've only been called once and I did answer but I said I hadn't been feeling well. Which is true by the way, ever since I started doubting the church and wanted to leave I've felt a little sick. I know they'll call again to check when I'm better and can come again but I'm postponing the trouble for now haha. I'm a little scared about ignoring them. I heard it's probably the best way to get them to stop trying to get in contact with me but I just haven't figured out how I'm going to handle this...
These past days I have done a lot of fun things. All of which on my own. I haven't told any of my Church friends that I'm leaving yet.
I still can't fully get my mind off all these mixed feelings (why I want to leave, why I want to stay, why I do like Scientology + Dianetics and why I don't, etc, etc) but this surely is more fun than what I used to do pretty much every day. I found this musical theatre group I wanted to join but unfortunately can't until September. So for now I spend my free time doing a whole bunch of different things. Today I suddenly got the great idea to go to the zoo and draw animals.
I like it this way. I'm doing alright :)

You may find the initial period "out" to be a little disorienting. It will pass over time. This is why orgs want you to be in the org on a frequent basis: the euphoric effect of Scientology wears off over time, and if you're gone too long, you start thinking "WTF was I thinking?"

Give it a couple of months of "no contact" with Scn.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Hey guys, quick update! :biggrin:


I haven't been back to the org and I don't miss it. Every day I do still get the urge to go and finish my course anyway but it feels so good and liberating when I don't give in to that.
I've only been called once and I did answer but I said I hadn't been feeling well. Which is true by the way, ever since I started doubting the church and wanted to leave I've felt a little sick. I know they'll call again to check when I'm better and can come again but I'm postponing the trouble for now haha. I'm a little scared about ignoring them. I heard it's probably the best way to get them to stop trying to get in contact with me but I just haven't figured out how I'm going to handle this...
These past days I have done a lot of fun things. All of which on my own. I haven't told any of my Church friends that I'm leaving yet.
I still can't fully get my mind off all these mixed feelings (why I want to leave, why I want to stay, why I do like Scientology + Dianetics and why I don't, etc, etc) but this surely is more fun than what I used to do pretty much every day. I found this musical theatre group I wanted to join but unfortunately can't until September. So for now I spend my free time doing a whole bunch of different things. Today I suddenly got the great idea to go to the zoo and draw animals.
I like it this way. I'm doing alright :)

Good for you :)

Its almost certain they will eventually call on you.

Remember you are the master and commander of your own life.

You do not have to speak or listen to anyone you don't wish to.

Perhaps a simple statement that you are no longer interested
in Scn and then closing your door.

If they persist in ringing your bell or whatever ignore them.

If they keep persisting threaten to call the police.

Anymore problems call the police and let them know you have.
 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hi,

I was once in your shoes as the Church had laid such a huge guilt on me. I felt so bad about leaving them in the lurch as they had so few staff to cover the main posts. I felt like such a deserter ... and yes they were surely my closest friends. But then were they really my friends? Or only being my friends while I agreed with them and went along with all. I eventually learnt it really was the latter as true. Friends stick by you and accept you for who you are.

Scientologists were only my friends if I did what I was approved of. You try and tell them you want to quit and they will come back hard with the doubt condition and many expensive handlings. Well expensive to you.

I remember after my last lot of auditing and finally leaving the Regs office just in one piece, after an ear bashing. For the next few days my phone rang incessantly probably 30= + times per day. I even thought twice about being as inconscpicuous as possible around my home although fortunately it was a long drive to the Org. I remember the times I was instructed to drive to peoples houses who started working at the Org, for a few weeks then blew. I was instructed to pick them up no matter what they wanted. The place is just way too crazy.

Hello Scotty :wave: and :welcome2: :biggrin:
 

phenomanon

Canyon
"The amazing thing was, I was NEVER told what I was accused of. It was only said that I'd done horrible things, that I'd committed crimes and I should know what they are!"

The reason you don't know what they are is because they are not crimes from a normal human beings viewpoint. The crimes Scientology is talking about is members were trying to get the Organization's ethics in....exposing the "outpoints" and not stopping. LRH says - the tech can't get in because ethics are out...and Scientology's ethics have been out for 64 years...hence, the tech doesn't work so Slappy keeps changing it. It is as simple as that.

Anyone doing that should continue. It is the right thing to do.

When Hildie disconnected, she disconnected. I do not know what her reasons are. Of course, I have listed every fooking overt and withhold that I have ever had on her, and there are any number of mistakes I made.

LRH says that a person is PTS to the person who has evaluated for him the most. That will always be the parent. A Scn'ist cannot name LRH as that one who evaluated the most because declare is the result of that one.

Personally, after lo these 30 years of not seeing my child, I think that she was very very wise to disconnect from me. She said her life is happier without me in it. That possibly works both ways.
She would've been automatically declared had she stayed with me, because immediately upon my departure, I went to the Police, I talked to the Press, I talked to the FBI, I talked to ARS as soon as it was available,and I joined the Class Action crowd, and picketed every chance I got.

Fook COS and their fooking policies.

It's all too clear that fair Game and Disconnection have ruined the Public opinion and good will of their "raw meat".
Couple those 2 things with high prices and tech failure, and you have the recipe for disaster. Tick tock.

end of rant
 

phenomanon

Canyon
Did anyone ever tell the judge what had happened? Just curious as that could have been a real shitstorm for the cult.

I don't know.
I never saw David's folder. I had never audited him.
The AOLA D of P who tried to "salvage" me said that Dr Denk had prescribed the Thorazine.
I met David in the Independent field @1990 or so. He had hardly any recall of what had happened.
 
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