Cant leave...

[Lorna]

A couple of weeks ago I found out about some very odd Scientology things and I decided I didn't want to be with them anymore. You gave me tips and info. Thank you.
I still have a problem though... I can't leave. I keep going to course and etc and have even planned new dates because I was too shy to tell anyone that I wanted to quit. I actually ended up doing even more with the church these days...
Also, I like my org and the people. They're my friends and even thinking about leaving them in this way upsets me. Every day when I say goodbye I promise myself it will be the last time but I'm too weak to just "not go". This isn't good because I really don't feel comfortable with the church anymore.
Can anyone help me with this?

 

[lotus]

Congratulation for having said so and ask for help!

I can tell that most of us did experienced the same than you presently are.

But decades ago, there was no place like here to help and tell what's going on.

The reason for you feel unable to leave and cut your ties to the group are because the processing and the indoctrinment. It has been made a way for people to be entrapped.
Also, when one does almost only $cientology, the group becomes like a family for we neglect any other part of our life like family, friends and our social network is becoming only $cientology.

But when things are brought under light of truth, the power of such indoctrinment vanishes and your self-determinism may come back and arise.

I let people give you advice on what to do but I only may tell you do not give away to your decision to leave. Even though it may appear as a very much difficult choice to make, when you will overcome the losses , you will experience a great relief and freedom. Never give up and come back when you need for help even though you did not succed to leave yet or change your mind.

Good luck!

 

[oneonewasaracecar]

My advice is to do what makes you feel comfortable. It may be a long journey out of Scientology for you.

Lurk and post here, but don't give out too much personal info. OSA reads these boards and if you give too much, they can figure out who you are.

With any luck, it will have collapsed in a few years, and you won't have to worry about losing your friends.

 

[Reasonable]

Don’t make a big deal about leaving, just don’t go back. Tell them you have a job or you have to deal with your family. I know it is hard because depending on how they see you they may end up on your doorstep.

If they see you as an easy sale either for courses or promotion they will keep showing up or keep calling. Especially if you live close to the org.

I understand the idea that they are your friends. And they are but they are also brainwashed and in that way they will disconnect from you if they find out that you are even considering leaving or have been on a site such as this.

Many people will say that they are not really your friends because they are friends only conditional to your being a Scientologist. But they are your friends but they are brainwashed.

I would suggest getting involved in another activity where you can make friends such as a sports group, a book club, a political group, the PTA, chamber of commerce, rotary club, learn to dance. Get involved with other people.

One of the of the most powerful things about Scientology is the idea that you have instant friends with whom you agree on a common goal.

Are your close friends or family in? Does your job depend on any of these people?

Keep reading anti Scientology blogs to keep your resolve.

Or you could just e-mail them that you are OUT and list all the websites you are visiting and send it to the org and all your “friends” at once, then you know you could never go back. That would take real guts, I don’t think that I could do it.

If you want to wean yourself off Scientology go to an indi Scientology group, then decide if you out all together later. At least this way you will have new instant friends and IMO you will out of the greater dangers of Scientology

 

[I told you I was trouble]

A couple of weeks ago I found out about some very odd Scientology things and I decided I didn't want to be with them anymore. You gave me tips and info. Thank you.
I still have a problem though... I can't leave. I keep going to course and etc and have even planned new dates because I was too shy to tell anyone that I wanted to quit. I actually ended up doing even more with the church these days...
Also, I like my org and the people. They're my friends and even thinking about leaving them in this way upsets me. Every day when I say goodbye I promise myself it will be the last time but I'm too weak to just "not go". This isn't good because I really don't feel comfortable with the church anymore.
Can anyone help me with this?

If you can, get yourself involved in something (anything) where you will meet people to replace those you are going to lose (because you will lose them if you leave, they will dump you in a heartbeat after trying everything to manipulate you into staying).

If there is an interest that you have always wanted to pursue .... please do it now, that way you will already have people you can spend time with when you finally decide enough is enough.

Whatever you do, please do not get involved with anyone (romantically) in scientology ... just walk away even if you don't want to because that is the start of the serious control (due to the emotional tie) and you won't realise it's happening due to the initial euphoria (and the other person will probably not even realise he/she is part of the manipulation).

Get out while you can or ... make sure you have other people to run to and feel supported by for when you do run.

Good luck.

 

[jenni with an eye]

A couple of weeks ago I found out about some very odd Scientology things and I decided I didn't want to be with them anymore. You gave me tips and info. Thank you.I still have a problem though... I can't leave. I keep going to course and etc and have even planned new dates because I was too shy to tell anyone that I wanted to quit. I actually ended up doing even more with the church these days...Also, I like my org and the people. They're my friends and even thinking about leaving them in this way upsets me. Every day when I say goodbye I promise myself it will be the last time but I'm too weak to just "not go". This isn't good because I really don't feel comfortable with the church anymore.Can anyone help me with this?

I know it is really hard.

But honestly, if you don't "feel comfortable with the church anymore" just walk away.

If your "friends" within the church are truely your friends and really care about you then they will try to still be your friends.

But if your "friends" are only your friends because you have the cofs in common then they will disconnect from you when you leave.

The good news is you will make better friends in the real world, one's that will stick by you and be happy that you are happy.

The even better news is you will be truely free.

 

[Free Being Me]

A couple of weeks ago I found out about some very odd Scientology things and I decided I didn't want to be with them anymore. You gave me tips and info. Thank you.
I still have a problem though... I can't leave. I keep going to course and etc and have even planned new dates because I was too shy to tell anyone that I wanted to quit. I actually ended up doing even more with the church these days...
Also, I like my org and the people. They're my friends and even thinking about leaving them in this way upsets me. Every day when I say goodbye I promise myself it will be the last time but I'm too weak to just "not go". This isn't good because I really don't feel comfortable with the church anymore.
Can anyone help me with this?

Hi Lorna. I think you're doing great being open minded coming here and asking people for input. One of the hooks $cientology uses is that $cientology and $cientologists become your social/personal life. $cientology was set up that way so people would be afraid to leave, fear is the prime choice tool of a cult to keep it's membership when questions start coming. After awhile the cult becomes a safety blanket so familiar letting go of it can be quite distressing however I believe you are self honest and strong enough to walk away.

To be blunt doing what's right for yourself is not a selfish indulgence, you would be doing yourself one hell of a favor and for those still in by being on the outside ready to help them when they leave.

 

[Ho Tai]

If you just leave without making noise about it, your church friends won't have to disconnect from you. But my experience was that your church friends are so caught up in the church that they just won't have time for you. Once their efforts to woo you back fail, they will just write you off. Their world is the church and if you aren't part of it then you just aren't part of their lives. So follow ITYIWT's advice and make some new friends, and consider your time in scientology an interesting phase of your life, now over. And consider yourself lucky that you saw the wrongness in it before you got swallowed up in it, as happened to so many of us on this board.

 

[Miss Ellie]

Finding new interests will help... A LOT!

Just like any change from A to B you have to take the first step.... even if a small one.

Go to a movie instead of class, meet a friend for dinner, go for a walk in the park, volunteer at an animal shelter, Habitat for Humanity or other organization that helps real people in the real world.

Just do this one day a week instead of class or other sciobot activity... then step it up for two days a week, etc.

As you take those first steps you will find it gets easier... soon you will be running free!

If they call to lure you back just tell them you have a bad stomach cramp and have to go potty, or go ring your own door bell & say you have company, turn the water on & say the washer just backed up & you have to hang up THEN hang up. If every time they call you have something happen that has to be handled RIGHT THEN they will get the point.

Don't feel guilty.... you deserve a real life.... go live it!

 

[NoName]

If your friendships are contingent on your belonging to the Co$, are they really your friends?

Spend your money on something like a community art class or Spanish class or a bookclub. Check out meetup.com if you need ideas, or call your local school district and ask for a community education catalog. I did a guitar class for adults in the local high school and joined a classic literature book club for a while. I don't do either anymore, but I still have many good friends out of it.

Do you want to try anything like that?

 

[FoTi]

Can't leave....can't stay....

Or...want to leave, but can't leave.....

Or....want to stay, but don't want to stay....



Definitely a problem.

Games condition?

Per LRH:

GAMES CONDITION, 1. when you say games condition you mean that somebody’s power of choice has been subjugated against his will into a fixated activity from which he must not take his attention. (SH Spec 32, 6107C20) 2. the word games condition is a derogatory actually. There is a technical thing goes along. When you say games condition you mean a package, and the package has to do with this: It means a fixated attention, an inability to escape coupled with an inability to attack, to the exclusion of other games. There is nothing wrong with having games. There is a lot wrong with being in a games condition because it is unknown, it is an aberrated activity, it is reactive, and one is performing it way outside of his power of choice and without his consent or will. (SH Spec 32, 6107C20) 3. have for self and can’t have for others; now that is a true games condition. (SH Spec 32, 6107C20) Abbr. G.C.

Since you're continuing to go into the Org, you can look this up and read about it or listen to the LRH tape on this from the BC.

You could also put the whole situation in clay including emotions, intentions, counter intentions, desires......etc. with labels and all.....when you are alone at home....so that you can look at all the parts of this situation........and see if that helps you at all. If you don't have any clay.....get a big piece of paper and draw pictures of it to put it all out in front of you instead of it just being all in your head/mind.

I'm just curious....do you have a personal goal for getting training or auditing in Scientology?

 

[TheSpectator]

Everyone so far has posted great advice to you. It is tough to leave because most people in Scientology are good, nice people. But your friends have all been indoctrinated by Scientology and are unable to easily leave too.

My suggestion: Just leave quietly. When it comes time to resign for your next service just delay it and don't pay. Limit your communication with the registrars. Only talk to them over the phone or via email. Don't go in and see them, but if you feel you must make sure you have a deadline when you need to leave (some appointment or something). After awhile they'll give up on you. Later, don't answer their phone calls. Don't respond to their emails or texts.

We all stayed in because our Scientology friends were nice people and the promise of a better life when you're at the top of The Bridge. Your friends will still be nice people but there is no Bridge. I made it to OT VII and did a fair amount of training too. You know what? It was a waste of time and money. It doesn't work! Spare yourself!

You'll have to toughen up a little! They can push you around and they know it. You have to learn to say No! There are many ways to say it.

In Tory Christman's recent video she mentions how nice Scientologists are and how it kept her in Scientology for 30 years! "Often people are attracted to Scientologists as they are 'so nice'. I stayed 'In' C of $ for 30 years for this same reason."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaGaDvB1wFc&list=UU__gcXYVQlmVocNLZykibUw

 

[Reasonable]

Think about this.

You stay.
You marry someone in Scientology. You have kids, your husband wants to go into debt to go up the bridge. You want to leave. You leave , you lose your kids.

Or this:
You stay; you are now in an auditing session. They try to pull an overt, you think about the times you posted to this board. It is on your mind in session. What do you do? Do you lie in session? Waste all your money? OR do you start to make up overts just to satisfy the meter?

Or do you fess up? they send you to ethics, you have to spend hours of time in ethics, you have to go all around the org asking people to sign your “liability formula”. It is humiliating but now your ENTIRE social structure is about Scientology.

Also know this:
You can never go to the OT levels anyway since you have posted to this board. You will have to lie on your OT eligibility and every 6 month check. When you don’t get the promised results you will think it is because you have been lying all the time.

The longer you stay the more involved you get the more leverage they have. And they will use it, that is why it is a cult. It may also be a religion but is is definitely a cult and it is dangerous.

It may have some things that are good, it may have some well intentioned people. People with a purpose can be very charming. But it is still a cult, it is dangerous and you can get very hurt.

The money you give them gives them more power to ruin other people’s lives, to spy, to break up families, to sue, to trick, to justify, to beat people, to send people to the hole and you are contributing to that with every dollar you give them.

You have all ready left the question is now. How much more money and time do you want to waste?

 

[MrNobody]

A couple of weeks ago I found out about some very odd Scientology things and I decided I didn't want to be with them anymore. You gave me tips and info. Thank you.
I still have a problem though... I can't leave. I keep going to course and etc and have even planned new dates because I was too shy to tell anyone that I wanted to quit. I actually ended up doing even more with the church these days...
Also, I like my org and the people. They're my friends and even thinking about leaving them in this way upsets me. Every day when I say goodbye I promise myself it will be the last time but I'm too weak to just "not go". This isn't good because I really don't feel comfortable with the church anymore.
Can anyone help me with this?

Can you please define friends for me? Friends, IMO, are the people who I would call for help if e.g my car broke down somewhere on the other end of my continent.

I could make at least 50 fake friends by just visiting a pub and yelling "One free round for everyone!" Bang, a huge group of friends gained within a few seconds. But how many of them are real friends? How many of 'em could I call if I needed help? Probably not even one.

If you need to buy expensive courses to keep your friends how much different is that from my "pub friend" analogy?

Basically, you can find friends wherever people meet and communicate and you'll find out who your real friends are, when you need them.

I've changed the path of my life several times and with every change, I had to leave some friends behind. That's kinda sad, but it's OK - their path was no longer my path.

What still surprises and amazes me: The high number of friendships that got re-activated later in life, when our paths crossed again.

I guess that's just how life works, eh?

Long story short: I think real friendship grows naturally. It can not be bought by attending courses or showing up at some Org activities.

Jus' my €0.02

ps:
I've even made a few new friends here on ESMB, just by making a few posts and exchanging a few PMs. I don't see why that shouldn't work for you, therefore: Just go out and communicate about topics that interest you, and sooner or later you'll have a nice collection of new friends and you may even be able to re-activate some of the old ones.

 

[TrevAnon]

Hey Lorna!

I don't think I have anything useful to add to the advice you have been given above.

Just want to say it's good to see you posting again.

 

[Sindy]

Hey, good for you taking the first step of seeing that there is something very wrong inside this organization.

You say you're "too weak" to leave, that you can't speak your mind, that you're getting even more involved because you can't muster the courage to say what you really think. In your own description you mention these traits in a derogatory sense, like when you know you have to lose weight and simply can't stop eating no matter how many times you've resolved to cut your calories.

If you find this behavior less than sterling (I am speaking of your own perception, not mine or anyone else's) this will not get better. Your integrity will continue to erode away until you are no longer yourself at all. Right now, whether the gravity of it is apparent or not, you are at the fork in the road where you decide to love yourself or not, period. Should you choose to stay and keep your mouth shut, the road ahead -- no matter how soothing it may seem now -- is bleak.

Advice? Examine what it is that you need that is being offered by these brainwashed (but kind) people and figure out how to recreate that somewhere else with people not beholden to a cult and who are free to like you for you, just you.

Second suggestion would be to get brave and to use the circumstance you are in now as a catalyst for change within yourself. Confront what you're not confronting. Voice to these people what you observe. Get courageous. It might get rough. It might be uncomfortable but you will have yourself and integrity intact to move on to your next venue (which you know deep down is inevitable anyway).

You will follow you wherever you go. Be genuine. Be authentic. The people you attract will be the same. The sheer fact that you can't be genuine now shows you are attracting people who are also disingenuous. Take note and use this circumstance to catapult yourself into a better state.

 

[Nicole]

A couple of weeks ago I found out about some very odd Scientology things and I decided I didn't want to be with them anymore. You gave me tips and info. Thank you.
I still have a problem though... I can't leave. I keep going to course and etc and have even planned new dates because I was too shy to tell anyone that I wanted to quit. I actually ended up doing even more with the church these days...
Also, I like my org and the people. They're my friends and even thinking about leaving them in this way upsets me. Every day when I say goodbye I promise myself it will be the last time but I'm too weak to just "not go". This isn't good because I really don't feel comfortable with the church anymore.
Can anyone help me with this?

Hey Lorna,

great you have come back.

Leaving your friends it's always difficult. But imo you have to look which price your are paying for this friendships. If this people are really your friends, they will be connected after you have said, "hey I don't want to practice Scientology here at this place anymore". If they aren't friended with you anymore, than this people have never been your real friends.

I don't have lots of good friends, but I know I can call them whenever I need them, btw Mr Nobody is one of them, I met him here the first time. I am also sure, if I would tell them, that I would go a way in my life they wouldn't like, they would say what they think about this, but they would be still my friends.

Right now the Disconnection Policy is putting you under pressure to stay in this evil and dangerous Cult. You know something is wrong and you are right it is wrong. The Disconnection Policy is one of the evilst thing a Cult can do with people.

Making new friends and finding a way to live your life isn't as difficult as you believe right now. It is also easy to find other hobbies, than spending your time in the Org. :wink2:

But it is your life and your way to live it. If you need more time lost in this evil Cult, than it is like it is.

You have to decide what to do. Nobody here can answer you the question what to do?




Nicole

 

[The_Fixer]

It's a hard choice to leave any group you have gotten comfortable with, whether it's the workplace you were at, the Mafia clan, a bikie gang, footy club or even aunt Mavis's crochet circle.

There's the uniform to lose, the old jargon to drop, and the folks who will probably drift away just because you're not in their scene anymore.

If you make a scene as you depart, there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth. It probably won't be too pretty.

Do so quietly and some will remain friendly, but most will fade away.

No matter what way you do it, most of your old clan will fade away in time. It's just one of those things that tends to happen in life anyway.

Do it in a way you feel most comfortable with and just move on. Most folks usually don't bother the quietly stoic too much in the end.

Repeat after me...."I will find new friends, I will find new friends...."

You will. How many friends did you have when you entered scientology? Have most of them gone? I bet you replaced them with a whole heap of them in the church.

If you've done it before, you sure as hell can do it again. Go for it!

 

[Enthetan]

Lots of good advice on this thread.

I agree with the idea of just leaving quietly if you can. It may or may not be possible. You can say "I need some time off to catch up on paying debts"(which is most likely true).

You can see your Scn friends outside of the org. Find places to hang out with them outside the org.

Ultimately, push may come to shove with the org. They may call you in for sec-checking or crush regging. At that point, you may need to give your courage and self determination some exercise. Under no circumstances should you physically enter the org once things get to that stage.

One thing about your courage and self-determinism: as with a lot of things, the more you exercise them, the stronger they get. Start exercising them. Start saying "no". If they ask why, respond with "because I don't want to". Their game generally is to keep you talking and having to justify your reasoning. "Because I don't want to" short-circuits that.

Other useful lines:
"There may be a few people in this world who I may feel the need to explain or justify my decisions to. You are not one of them. Bye"

"Why did I hang up? Because I didn't want to continue the conversation. I choose when to end conversations. I'm choosing to do so now. Bye."

And let your machine start answering calls from people you do not choose to talk to.

Don't be afraid to drop the nuke: "I'm finding your calls to be harassment. Do I need to get the police involved? Or does it stop NOW?"

 

[Enthetan]

i would add: your phone company has procedures for reporting harassing phone calls. For example, Verizon lets you dial "*57" after the unwanted call to log it, and then you call their "Unlawful Call Center" to complain.

You must have first notified the caller that you consider the calls harassing and demanded that they stop calling. After the second to fifth call (depending on jurisdiction), then you can get the authorities involved.