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Child of Scientologists: hi

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by learningconcern, Jun 20, 2019.

  1. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    During the time I've been on this message board I've noticed that the general consensus is that the benefits of scientology auditing on the lower levels seem to be similar to the effect that might be obtained through talk-therapy of some description, and that these 'gains' seem, in the main, to be only temporary.

    What upsets me more than anything else is that after inner turmoil, and in spite of the dire warnings from the 'church' about 'losing one's eternity' by straying outside the fold, disaffected scientologists somehow find their way to this message board only to find certain posters writing about how wonderful L Ron Hubbard is and telling us all about the marvellous gains they've got from the spiritual and mental healing processes developed by a man who claims to have been almost run over by a freight train on the planet Venus; just the sort of serious scholar one would entrust one's mental health and well-being to.

    Whether these people's 'gains' are due to the love-bombing, the peer pressure and the circle-jerking they experienced in the cult or is simply self-delusion I do not know, but in my opinion they should take their proselytising somewhere else. So ban me if you want to, I'm not changing my mind.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
  2. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    We were all asked (around 11 years ago) if we wanted to completely ban indies from the board and we voted to let them stay. Banning has the ring of disconnection to it and not many here voted yes (myself included) ... most indies have left now anyway but any that still dare to try and drum up business here (ambulance chasers) usually get hammered and they absolutely deserve to be, they sicken me.

    I don't believe someone newly out of the cult needs an ex/critic hard in their face telling them how wrong they are just for being honest about any positive feelings they still have regarding scientology though, they mostly need a place to relax and work things out in their own time.

    Birdie is in a special category all of his own really, he still likes parts of the tek and wants everyone and his dog to know it but he isn't trying to recruit anyone ... he can be seriously annoying when he goes off on one and most of us have lost it with him at least once over the years, which seems to me to be precisely the reaction he wants ... because he clearly enjoys the resultant tension and arguments. Maybe he uses ESMB to let off steam, his real life doesn't sound like a bed of roses even though he never complains about it.
     
  3. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    It really seems like everything is OK for now. Your parents are happy doing Scientology and are not aggressively pushing it on you. I'd recommend letting things be.

    Many Scientologists are very easy to get along with and it sounds like your parents are like that. If they gently push you to do more Scientology it sounds like they accept "No thanks" without argument. I don't see a problem.

    For your own well-being, DO continue to say "No thanks". I suggest you don't try to deprogram your parents, it's their choice and their money.
     
  4. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    I respectfully disagree with you on this, Strat. If this message board's sole purpose is to steer potential recruits away from Scientology, then its name and/or stated purpose should reflect that, and membership of the board should have that aim as a (loose) condition. It's not the responsibility of someone who wants to come here for a different reason (such as discuss their experiences with Scientology, think out loud about whether Scientology tech is workable) to worry about what a potential new recruit will think about their post.

    If anything, I think a plurality of opinions about Scn on the board helps would-be recruits browsing the board to know that this place is not merely a hate website targeted at the CoS by some disgruntled ex-members. If it WERE the latter, it would be easy for the church to innoculate would-be members from what is said here. The plurality of opinions makes it a more authentic expression of what people's experiences of Scientology have actually been.
     
  5. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    You are definitely among the respectful and respectable posters ITYIWT

    But if you take a look you will see the post you use for RWQ is in response to clarify the statement that I am pro-scientology. It does come in conflict with my Christian faith, my absolute commitment to The Bill of Rights and my affection for fine botanicals

    And it is the Sea Org where the vast bulk of abuses occur; CSI. CoS, the outer orgs aren't too bad though they seem to be worse now than then
     
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  6. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    I'm not exactly sure what it is you're disagreeing with me on Wilbur, so if you've got time perhaps you could be a bit more specific. I'm not the sharpest tool in the box you know, and sometimes I need to have things spelled out for me. In the meantime, although it irritates me when I hear someone saying that such and such a 'process' blew their mind when I know that it came from a man who would have done and said anything to enrich himself to the detriment of the mental well-being of others and that said 'process' was probably something he dreamed up while under the influence of pinks and greys, I reserve my most bitter enmity for those who come here cheerleading for Hubbard and scientology in general, not unlike mr clay pigeon, among others.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
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  7. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Puh-leeeeze Stratsie...

    I have always expressed a high and deep affection for HH

    What are doing?

    Invoking the HCOPL "Joking and Degrading" on me?

    "...The product of an unfortunate mating between a syphylitic Patagonian dwarf and a cross-eyed hyena." is an ROTFL line. Anyone above 3.0 on the tone scale immediately recognizes the warm affection implicit in it and as well a cogent characterization by caricature of the man's polemic oeuvre.

    Disraeli and Gladstone as I'm sure you know were fierce opponents. One day one said to the other "Sir, I'm not sure whether you will die of a social disease or be hanged" To which the other replied "Sir, I* suppose that would depend on whether I embraced your mistress or your politics."

    HH is a fine humorist. I 'm hoping he'll pick up the gantlet I tossed and respond in kind...
     
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  8. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Ahem...

    I am NOT one of Hubbard's cheerleaders. When huge black lies are told about him I will point out the huge black lies. When, for instance, someone says he was heavily motivated by greed and pride I do not post objection for that surely appears to be true. I don't believe that was the entirety of his motivation however.
     
  9. learningconcern

    learningconcern New Member

    i really respect everything you've had to say so far as well, and everything i've seen of you, ITYIWT. clearly, this sort of space is complicated, and i'm lurking and trying to keep up and understanding more than ever how nuanced things can be. scn is belief. whenever we deal with any sort of belief we get all these complicated, tiny branches of disagreement. with scn i am feeling as though the structure of it mimicking all the flaws and abuses of other more traditional religions is inherently harmful in regards to the church and orgs ARE small churches following the doctrines heavy handedly enforced by DM.
    this plurality is something that encouraged me to choose to post here and not elsewhere. i did not want to be told that my parents were horrible people or stupid for still being involved. i didnt want to be told to run for the hills. i want to continue to talk with ex-scns and hear in their experienced opinions how i can safely move forward w/ scn family members or to learn what my options are if things were to ever somehow go badly or forcibly involve me. i am slightly calmer about continuing my research now this general idea has been confirmed that i am ok to be critical and ok to be private and that this doesnt have to and in fact should not come up w/ my parents. i feel i have entered a safe place which has a lot of tension if anything because there is such opportunity for difference between you all. but it is good, that you are not all on the same page on everything all of the time. as much as id like things to be simple, scientology and talking about scientology is far from simple, and again id rather see some of that versus have my world rocked and be told that im a potential victim. i think i could be, but we're trying to avoid that...

    this i understand. ITYIWT seemed to be getting at this, too. that, if this forum is to continue to be a space where people like myself or those more involved seek help (which ITYIWT definitely said) then praise and "soft exits" if you will do not really help people who have experienced abuse. its hard to navigate the idea that processes can work for people, as was said whether their success was dependent on psychosomatic effects or not...
     
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  10. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Your capacity for prevarication knows no bounds does it? Only the other day you were telling us that 'Science of Survival' (by L Ron Hubbard) was the single, greatest work on the subject of the human mind in the history of the universe (or some similar sycophantic codswallop) and if that's not cheerleading I don't know what is. Give it a rest mate. Yes, I was born during the day, but it wasn't yesterday.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
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  11. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Gee, ya know I'd like to add further comment but let's all get back to the poster of the OP who is actively involved in a dynamic situation that involves a threat to a precious and cherished family relationship.

    Which certainly should receive a variety of input. The emotional arsonists among us are quite likely to immolate that happy state.

    Imtelligent posters should recognize that someone who well grasps the appeal and substance of the subject tempers the harshr criticism
     
  12. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    Yes, I see what you mean. What you said was:

    When I said I disagree with you, perhaps it would have been more accurate to say I don't share your sentiments about the above-mentioned posters. I know that your post was aimed mainly at Clay Pigeon and his over-the-top eulogies of Hubbard and Scientology. But my point was just that I don't think that everyone posting on this board has a responsibility to care about what a potential Scientology recruit might make of their posts. Not everybody is here specifically to try to deter others from getting into Scientology.

    Whilst I think that downright promotion of Scientology (or at least, of the CoS) would be totally inappropriate on this board, I don't think that it's inappropriate to come here and honestly discuss gains that one might have had in Scientology, and put those gains in context. Personally, I don't want to hear some party line about Scientology, pitched by someone with an objective. What I want to know is whether people actually got nothing out of their auditing, or got something but it was swamped by the craziness of the organisation or, for that matter, are stably exterior from the body with full perception, after having completed their Ls. There seems to be a lack of that latter category on this board, for some reason. Perhaps it's because they have all floated off to Target 2. Nevertheless, I don't want people's censored thoughts on Scn: I want their actual thoughts. Whilst others will want different things from this board, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask to hear people's true opinions, which you don't really get if spouting vitriol at Hubbard and Miscavige is de rigeur on the board.
     
  13. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    I agree. I don't mind people discussing what they believe they "got" from Scientology. There was something there or we wouldn't have stayed.

    I don't mind someone saying "I got result X from process Y". I very much do object when someone claims "Scientology process Y produces result X".
     
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  14. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Thanks for your reply Wilbur. My reason for posting on esmb is, was and always will be to do my best to deter anyone who comes here from getting caught in the spider's web that is scientology.

    Spouting vitriol isn't my strong point, I prefer sarcasm when it comes to dealing with scientology and scientologists, and I honestly couldn't give a flying fuck whether people got anything out of their auditing or not. If they did it is more likely that they had a good listener for an auditor and got a few things off of their chest which had been bothering them than because scientology processing is so 'workable' and wonderful.

    And if you really want to see me have a good laugh, just tell me that you are 'stably exterior from the body with full perception'. Horseshit!
     
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  15. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    Actually, I've gone a step further than that in my OT abilities. I have acquired, as a result of my OT auditing, the ability to take over the body of any animal that I choose. Recently, I have found that there is a lot of fun to be had from flying around as a crow.

    I'm watching you very closely, Strat.

    :p
     
  16. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

     
  17. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Also...

    My statement concerning Science of Survival is that it is the single finest basic handbook of human psychology ever published.

    A statement by which I stand.

    "Arbeit und lieber" was one of Freud's best teachings. Sigmund said "how do you know if someone is psycholgically healthy? If a person can work and love; arbeit und lieber, then they are basically healthy.

    The first great virtue of SOS and the COHE is that expands on arbeit und lieber in excellent detail. From the mild and tenuous sanity of boredom at 2.5 up to the robust sanity of 4.0 the COHE gives vivid analysis of sanity in such a way that an honest student can gain immeasurable case gain from self-disciplining their conduct according to it's magnificent insights.

    Can you name any other source of such a concise yet far ranging description of sanity?
     
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  18. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    Hubbard's "Science of Survival" is based on his Emotional Tone Scale which is the biggest load of horsecrap ever excreted by the guy. Nope, not based on science, not useful.
     
  19. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    To be brutally frank CP, when it comes to matters of of sanity I wouldn't say you're the most highly qualified person to talk about the subject.
     
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  20. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Yes, and I've taken over the body of a cat across the road, so you'd better watch your step! :)