Chris Shelton: Leaving Scientology

Intentionally Blank

Scientology Widow
Tony features an excellent video with Chris Shelton on his blog today. In it he talks about steps to recovering and healing from Scientology or any other abusive cult. All the points are very good and can each be taken as jumping off points for deeper exploration of healing and recovery strategies.

http://tonyortega.org/2015/05/01/le...-ill-be-doing-the-rest-of-my-life/#more-22222

Chris makes a really superb point about reading the accounts of ex members that I think bears emphasis. I'll quote it here. You can find it at about 5:40

The analogy that the church is making right now is that you shouldn't go to the Nazis to learn about the Jews. Fair enough. But that's not an accurate comparison when you read the accounts of ex-scientologists.

It's more like this: If you were a Jew and you had a problem with the Nazis, perhaps an ex-Nazi might shed some light on what they're up to ans what they're really all about. That is what you get when you read books from ex-members, the inside data of what really goes on behind the curtain of scientology's inner circle.

Also on Chris' blog - http://mncriticalthinking.com/author/skepticalseeker/

Blanky
 

bromo

Patron with Honors
Just patiently waiting for the day that you post that Mr/Mrs Blanky has watched Chris' videos and for the many celebrations that will ensue.
 

Intentionally Blank

Scientology Widow
Just patiently waiting for the day that you post that Mr/Mrs Blanky has watched Chris' videos and for the many celebrations that will ensue.

I'm waiting for the day we can invite Chris for dinner and an evening of wine and talk :) (You're all invited when that happens, btw.)
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
LoL. Just have to laugh at the scientology 'cherch' statements. They are so hubris (hubbardian). If you listened to enough of his/Tubs taped lectures (now on CDs) you will hear him be critical of just about all walks of life. Therefore it is essential for OSA to also try to 'dead agent' (be strongly critical of anyone so that hubris himself or his OSA minions can pretend they are so far above their counterparts. So OSA is comparing critics to Nazis, and now with those misassociated Nazis out of the way, OSA can reprogram their audience with their propaganda(front groups created to appear good , but are actually created to rope peoples interest and trust). Think Venus Flytrap. So pretty aren't they. Who wouldn't want one in their garden of life? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_flytrap
 

Sindy

Crusader
LoL. Just have to laugh at the scientology 'cherch' statements. They are so hubris (hubbardian). If you listened to enough of his/Tubs taped lectures (now on CDs) you will hear him be critical of just about all walks of life. Therefore it is essential for OSA to also try to 'dead agent' (be strongly critical of anyone so that hubris himself or his OSA minions can pretend they are so far above their counterparts. So OSA is comparing critics to Nazis, and now with those misassociated Nazis out of the way, OSA can reprogram their audience with their propaganda(front groups created to appear good , but are actually created to rope peoples interest and trust). Think Venus Flytrap. So pretty aren't they. Who wouldn't want one in their garden of life? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_flytrap

I find it fascinating that I never noticed the emotional immaturity in a way that made me think it was odd enough to get the hell out. It's weird. I knew it was odd from another non-Scientologist's perspective and so I would cover it up or downplay it when presenting Scientology to someone else. At the same time, strangely, I thought Ron must be justified in his Captain Bligh anger and other reactions. That's some real cognitive dissonance there.
 

Rmack

Van Allen Belt Sunbather
It was very good. Excellent for helping newly escaped to decompress, I would bet.

I like his suggestion to study other cults. The similarities ran into are some of the most powerful info you can get for helping one recognize what our cult really is.
 
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Sindy

Crusader
It was very good. Excellent for helping newly escaped to decompress, I would bet.

I like his suggestion to study other cults. The similarities ran into is some of the most powerful info you can get for helping one recognize what our cult really is.

The suggestion about jettisoning the language/nomenclature ASAP was very helpful for me when I got out. I forced myself to get rid of it on Jesse Prince's recommendation and it made a huge difference. I think that's bigger than people may realize. There are language centers in the brain, etc......yada, yada.....it's a binding point that's a hardwired thing.

I know, not very technical but you know what I mean, right? :)
 

Rmack

Van Allen Belt Sunbather
The suggestion about jettisoning the language/nomenclature ASAP was very helpful for me when I got out. I forced myself to get rid of it on Jesse Prince's recommendation and it made a huge difference. I think that's bigger than people may realize. There are language centers in the brain, etc......yada, yada.....it's a binding point that's a hardwired thing.

I know, not very technical but you know what I mean, right? :)


Oh, I do. I think it's all about creating an 'egregore'. This is an esoteric term taught in the Mystery schools for sort of a 'group mind'. Specialized words and phrases employed by those in an exclusive group is a very effective way to create one of these.

As even a beginning member of AMORC would know, group minds have a much bigger influence on individuals that are attached to them than is generally known.

Ancient Mystical Order Rosae Crucis Is the name of an organization based in San Jose that was founded by Spencer Lewis, who was a member of the Alpha Et Omega, which was an American Lodge of The Golden Dawn before it splintered off. They have a very slow moving correspondence course that can go over 30 years, I've been told. However, they get into the egregore doctrines fairly soon.
 
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Intentionally Blank

Scientology Widow
The suggestion about jettisoning the language/nomenclature ASAP was very helpful for me when I got out. I forced myself to get rid of it on Jesse Prince's recommendation and it made a huge difference. I think that's bigger than people may realize. There are language centers in the brain, etc......yada, yada.....it's a binding point that's a hardwired thing.

I know, not very technical but you know what I mean, right? :)

Oh, I do. I think it's all about creating an 'egregore'. This is an esoteric term taught in the Mystery schools for sort of a 'group mind'. Specialized words and phrases employed by those in an exclusive group is a very effective way to create one of these.

As even a beginning member of AMORC would know, group minds have a much bigger influence on individuals that are attached to them than is generally known.

Ancient Mystical Order Rosae Crucis Is the name of an organization based in San Jose that was founded by Spencer Lewis, who was a member of the Alpha Et Omega, which was an American Lodge of The Golden Dawn before it splintered off. They have a very slow moving correspondence course that can go over 30 years, I've been told. However, they get into the egregore doctrines fairly soon.

I find the conversation about specialized language fascinating. As you probably know I rant about scientologese and the words I refuse to use, regularly. At the same time - all communities, specialties, and organizations have their own language shortcuts and jargon. So what makes one type of group mind/language part of an abusive and controlling relationship and while another is not? What makes one thought stopping and another not? Or is it impossible to avoid the thought stopping altogether?

One difference I see between, say, jargon in a medical application and jargon in scientology is the universal use of scientology for all life applications and experiences. Whereas medical jargon would be confined to a specific profession. I'm trying, for comparison, to think of other places in my life where I've learned and used a language subset.
 

Rmack

Van Allen Belt Sunbather
I find the conversation about specialized language fascinating. As you probably know I rant about scientologese and the words I refuse to use, regularly. At the same time - all communities, specialties, and organizations have their own language shortcuts and jargon. So what makes one type of group mind/language part of an abusive and controlling relationship and while another is not? What makes one thought stopping and another not? Or is it impossible to avoid the thought stopping altogether?

One difference I see between, say, jargon in a medical application and jargon in scientology is the universal use of scientology for all life applications and experiences. Whereas medical jargon would be confined to a specific profession.


I don't think using jargon to reinforce a specific group is necessarily bad. Your example of the medical profession is a good example.

Like most technology, what you do with it makes it good or bad.

I'm trying, for comparison, to think of other places in my life where I've learned and used a language subset.

I can think of a few. Sports and their following fans (from the word 'fanatic'!) Not really evil per se, but can be overwhelming to some people. You could wind up dancing like a maniac half naked in the cold painted in your teams colors! Heaven forbid!

Other games, like video/computer games. They easily build up a jargon that only other players would understand when they talk about it. Again, not really that bad, but it can become an obsession.

This stuff can be powerful, which makes it dangerous. Especially to certain types of vulnerable people. In the hands of an unscrupulous person who understands these principles, it can be mortally treacherous. Cult leaders understand these things, instinctually or otherwise.
 

JustSheila

Crusader
I find the conversation about specialized language fascinating. As you probably know I rant about scientologese and the words I refuse to use, regularly. At the same time - all communities, specialties, and organizations have their own language shortcuts and jargon. So what makes one type of group mind/language part of an abusive and controlling relationship and while another is not? What makes one thought stopping and another not? Or is it impossible to avoid the thought stopping altogether?

Good question. Thanks for making me put my cap on.

thinking-cap-2-259x300.gif


Although every specialty profession has its own language, there is a point where one isolates himself so much from those outside his profession or area that he can no longer explain his ideas or concepts in basic English. It's not necessary. Not everyone loses the ability to talk to others about what they do, but some do.

I think when a person's thoughts and actions are that segregated or isolated from the rest of society that he/she can't speak in English about it, he's definitely got a problem.
 

SPsince83

Gold Meritorious Patron
Good question. Thanks for making me put my cap on.

thinking-cap-2-259x300.gif


Although every specialty profession has its own language, there is a point where one isolates himself so much from those outside his profession or area that he can no longer explain his ideas or concepts in basic English. It's not necessary. Not everyone loses the ability to talk to others about what they do, but some do.

I think when a person's thoughts and actions are that segregated or isolated from the rest of society that he/she can't speak in English about it, he's definitely got a problem.

One simply can't speak Scientologese in polite company. NOBODY will understand WTF you are saying and you will think it's because they are stupid wogs.:bong:
 

Glenda

Crusader
I find the conversation about specialized language fascinating. As you probably know I rant about scientologese and the words I refuse to use, regularly. At the same time - all communities, specialties, and organizations have their own language shortcuts and jargon. So what makes one type of group mind/language part of an abusive and controlling relationship and while another is not? What makes one thought stopping and another not? Or is it impossible to avoid the thought stopping altogether?

One difference I see between, say, jargon in a medical application and jargon in scientology is the universal use of scientology for all life applications and experiences. Whereas medical jargon would be confined to a specific profession. I'm trying, for comparison, to think of other places in my life where I've learned and used a language subset.

I too am fascinated by the language thing and how it can be used to be destructive/abusive/controlling, etc.

When I was mid doing the "big work" I would observe language used in various situations (well life is just one big lesson and I'm taking it!). Even families have "specialised language" - cute little words they use with each other, that often no one from outside that family have a clue of the meanings/context. This forms cohesion between family members and so forth.

I think the difference between cult installed language and the specialised languages of professions - or cultural family language - is the intense way the cult trains in (patterns in ) the cult language. You sit there for hours and hours "defining" scientology words and hence it goes deep.

I began to break the deep patterning by being around loads of foreign language people. Living in Shanghai you are surrounded by umpteen various languages. On any given average day I would have been hearing at least 10 to 15 different languages - English was not the prominent language. By default, I had to devalue language and begin to function on other things. Instinct. From there I started to realise how fucked up/loaded up I was with scientologese. It was automatically in every thought I had, I viewed every situation (I mean every) using scientology language. Man falls off bike = "he is PTS".

Also at that time I was trying to learn Chinese. I became aware of how vital patterning was, with word symbols, concepts, usage, etc. Chinese is a big language to tackle and it opened up a lot of new stuff for me. I had three languages running in my head - English, Chinese and scientologese. It was very confusing. But the cool thing was recognising this fact - and then seeing how the scientologese impacted on my thoughts, behaviour, etc.

I think you are in the right ball-park when you say "...and jargon in scientology is the universal use of scientology for all life applications and experiences." Scientology installed language encompasses viewing all human behaviour/emotions through the cult language filter, including ones own behaviour/emotions. One is constantly running an internal dialogue which goes something like "what tone am I in, what tone is this person in front of me in?". A person is automatically framing everything internally and externally with scientology concepts/language.

Just like it is difficult to think in a new language one is learning (with masses of translating goes on in the head), once the scientologese in heavily drilled in, it is almost impossible for a person to just think in "plain English" terms. Scientologese is designed to "make a scientologist, a tiger, a KSW-abiding-tech-using superior being". To achieve that all other language/concepts need to be replaced with pure scientologese concepts - for every life situation, every internal experience.

That is where the control and damage lies, imho. The person is genuinely not thinking their own thoughts, not experiencing their own internal responses. It is all tainted/replaced with scientologese.

Hoping this makes sense - written by the seat of my pants.
 

Rmack

Van Allen Belt Sunbather
And, of course, this will eventually lead us to the masters of creating a group mind with language. Yes, I'm talking about lawyers. Barristers, or whatever you foreigners call them?

Are they good or evil? The jury's still out on that...
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
One thing the hit my mind was the absence of specific words in Scientologeese

like:

- love
- empathy
- compassion
- confidence
- trust
- sharing
- friendship
- loyalty

after decades of a language system voiding these concepts, some people forget them.
This is what happened to some of my friends..I see rondroids in them...:bigcry: It's like the real '' I am'' is not there..presently..!
the only existing world is the one described by Hubtard and his new brainwashing language designed to keep one introverted into meaning of things, per LRH view an d meaning of invented concept...instead of being in present time reality as an observer and participant.

A good example is people so much into their OT wins...as they lost their house, have gone bancrupt and disconnected from siblings...for reaching a mirage...that has a $cientologeese name and concept -
OT power.
 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
Tony features an excellent video with Chris Shelton on his blog today. In it he talks about steps to recovering and healing from Scientology or any other abusive cult. All the points are very good and can each be taken as jumping off points for deeper exploration of healing and recovery strategies.

http://tonyortega.org/2015/05/01/le...-ill-be-doing-the-rest-of-my-life/#more-22222

Chris makes a really superb point about reading the accounts of ex members that I think bears emphasis. I'll quote it here. You can find it at about 5:40



Also on Chris' blog - http://mncriticalthinking.com/author/skepticalseeker/

Blanky

This is outstanding . . . .:yes::thumbsup:
 

Glenda

Crusader
One thing the hit my mind was the absence of specific words in Scientologeese

like:

- love
- empathy
- compassion
- confidence
- trust
- sharing
- friendship
- loyalty

after decades of a language system voiding these concepts, some people forget them.
This is what happened to some of my friends..I just see robots in them...
the olny wxisting world is the one described by Hubtard and his new brainwashing language designed to keep one introverted into meaning of things, per LRH view...instead of being in present time reality as an observer and participant.

And wasn't it a shocking day when you found yourself amidst people with real empathy, real unconditional love, real compassion, etc?

Made me weep to discover what I had become and to begin to experience the real world with all its glorious shades of colour. Such a cold hard world, the world of the true scientologist.
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Yes Glenda :yes:

Each day of my life I am grateful for what $cientology made me...in the best of the EP...a person who discovered that most of the people in true life are kind hearted, devoted, generous, they smile share without any $$$$ expectation or profit to get.

Sometimes we deeply enjoy things we have lost for a moment...and we ensure we remember...

This Is LRH legacy to me ..after I left his dark world...

I can see the uglyness and I can see the beauty and enjoy it..this is what life is...
the only way to better it, is to keep my heart at peace and to smile...

I like Chris video and his take on $cn and critical thinking...he is down to earth... and never overwhelming with technical stuff!
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
I find the conversation about specialized language fascinating. As you probably know I rant about scientologese and the words I refuse to use, regularly. At the same time - all communities, specialties, and organizations have their own language shortcuts and jargon. So what makes one type of group mind/language part of an abusive and controlling relationship and while another is not? What makes one thought stopping and another not? Or is it impossible to avoid the thought stopping altogether?

One difference I see between, say, jargon in a medical application and jargon in scientology is the universal use of scientology for all life applications and experiences. Whereas medical jargon would be confined to a specific profession. I'm trying, for comparison, to think of other places in my life where I've learned and used a language subset.

Specialized language can be found anywhere. Wherever groups of humans with certain interests are, they use the specialized language that comes with that specific interest.

When I speak about a CRT, only a very small number of people here would understand what I'm talking about, but if I use that abbreviation in an electronics forum, not only would everybody fully understand what I mean, everybody would also immediately have their own, personal topic-related "universe" in mind:

"CRT, yeah, I know, Cathode Ray Tube! I still remember my old physics and electronics teachers and their lessons about CRT. I can almost smell the melting soldering tin in my own workshop, when I made my own CRT experiments. Now let me use anything I know, learned and experimented, to find out out what this MrNobody's "problem" with CRTs is and how to solve it."

'nuther example: I visit my new neurologist for the 1st time. She asks: "Why are you here?" and I reply "MS." Bang, within a few milliseconds, she has a whole set of questions to ask, tests to perform and potential treatments to suggest, on her "mental screen".

Last but not least example: "RPF." Of course, being a never-in, I have no personal experience with RPF - unlike many ESMBers who do. Of course I can "interpolate" - just like my neurologist re: MS - but that's not the same.

Why do I tell all this? Because when it's about getting rid of a certain "specialized language", it's not just about getting rid of certain words and meanings - it's about getting rid of the whole "mental universe" that comes with these words for those who are/have been affected.

[my obligatory EDIT:]

Your example about the dishes was actually a pretty good one. Instead of asking to "handle that", you could have just asked to "take care of that". :)
 
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